Breathing Anti-freeze dangerous?
Wayne Fiori
without any serious effects. Relax
GrahamM
My car has a leak in the heater core, thus the hot air smells like
anti-freeze. Can it stay like this for long with no ill effects?
Thanks in advance...
Matt Graham
m...@druhi.att.com
Dale Southard
>Is breathing anti-freeze fumes dangerous?
>
>My car has a leak in the heater core, thus the hot air smells like
>anti-freeze. Can it stay like this for long with no ill effects?
>
How much do you drink??
The major anti-freeze component is ethylene glycol HOCH2-CH2OH. When introduced
into the human body, it is a substrate analog of ethanol and will be acted on
by the alchohol dehydrogenase (ADH) enzyme, which will convert it to HO2C-CO2H
(oxalic adic) over a few steps. Oxalic acid is poisonous.
But, if you drink lots of alcohol, a competitive inhibition "race" is started
between the ethylene glycol --> oxalic acid and the ethanol --> acetaldehyde
reactions, giving your body more time to purge the oxalic acid.
This is simular to the mechanism for methanol poinsoning (but the end product
is formaldehyde).
Note: I am an organic chemist -- any biochem types out there feel free to
add to/correct the above statements.
Oh, I would doubt that you are getting enough ethylene glycol to be dangerous,
but if you are getting hangovers after driving for a while, I would become
concerned. (Not to mention that anti-freeze hasn't been cheap since the
ethylene glycol plant blew up, but that is another story).
--> --> Dale UVa (ds...@virginia.edu)
Sam Conway
->Safer than the gasoline in the car. You should be able to drink antifreeze
->without any serious effects. Relax
*!!!!!!!!*
YOU FIRST, DUDE!
Let me quote from Merck:
Constitutes a hazard when ingested: e.g., drinking of antifreeze fluid.
Transient stimulation of CNS followed by depression, vomiting, drowsiness,
coma, respiratory failure, convulsions; renal damage, which may proceed to
anuria, uremia, and death. Lethal dose is humans about 1.4 ml/kg or 100 ml
[for you non-scientists, that's about a quarter of a bottle of beer]
I think I'd say those are slightly serious effects!
--
Sam Conway * "And if you give us any more
dra...@eleazar.dartmouth.edu * trouble I shall visit you in the
Chemistry Dept., Dartmouth College, NH * small hours and put a bat up your
Vermont Raptor Center (VINS) * nightdress!" -- Basil Fawlty
Bob Yazz
> Safer than the gasoline in the car. You should be able to drink antifreeze
> without any serious effects. Relax
Oh my; please don't invite me over for drinks. (:-})
--
Bob Yazz -- ya...@lccsd.sd.locus.com
Payphone ripoff? Californians call Pac Bell at 800/352-2201, M-F, 8-5.
From elsewhere try the FCC's enforcement division at 202/632-7553.
Walter A. Koziarz
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You DON'T KNOW WHAT THE F*CK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!! Go take another
drink of 'Prestone'; that way you'll die and won't be offering such idiotic
foolishness again. What a f*cking moron!!!!!
Walt K.
ri...@popvax.uucp
>without any serious effects. Relax
Ethylene Glycol poisoning can be lethal. I would consider death a serious
effect. Some people do think the treatment is fun, though, since it
consists of being given intravenous alcohol.
David Rind
ri...@popvax.harvard.edu
Jim Meyers
>without any serious effects. Relax
No!!!!! Do not listen to this! Your liver will convert the ethylene
glycol in the antifreeze to oxalic acid. Oxalic acid is poisonous !!
___________________________________________________________________________
Jim Meyers | |
Brown University Box 1910 | j...@cs.brown.edu |
Providence, RI 02912 | (401)-863-7682 |
glenn eldon conser
>Safer than the gasoline in the car. You should be able to drink antifreeze
>without any serious effects. Relax
WHERE THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN ?!?!?!?!
I consider death a serious side effect! Read the label.
--Glenn
" 'ello, everybody. "
" NORM!!! "
Timothy A. Melton
>without any serious effects. Relax
Don't listen to this guy! It is true that gasoline is more toxic, but
ethylene glycol will kill you if you drink much of it. It has a sweet
taste that dogs tend to enjoy. They'll lap it up until they die. Not
recommended for people. Just wanted to straighten that out.
--
Timothy A Melton University of Oklahoma
Gradual Student Department of Chemical Engineering
st...@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu or st...@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu!tims386.uucp
JOSEPH T CHEW
Sorry; rigor mortis is incompatible with relaxation. It isn't plutonium
but it isn't Gatorade either. Don't drink it, don't let animals drink it,
wear safety glasses, wash it off your skin, and don't put it in a plastic
bag and sniff it as though it were airplane glue. Here are the gory details.
There are three routes of exposure: ingestion, inhalation, and skin contact.
According to the references readily at hand (the 1984 NIOSH Registry of
Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances, the U.S. Coast Guard CHRIS handbook
Chemical Hazards, and the Material Safety Data Sheet for Prestone put out
by Union Carbide of Canada), ethylene glycol, the major ingredient in
antifreeze, is a Class 2 toxin by oral ingestion. Class 2 means "slightly
toxic." Acute toxicity has been observed at levels as low as roughly
710 milligrams per kilogram of body weight in humans. The LD50 in small
lab animals is on the order of a few grams per kilogram.
It can cause narcosis, dizziness, nausea, and headache upon excessive
inhalation; and brain, kidney, and liver damage; inebriation; and coma
or death upon ingestion, depending on intake. Through contact it is
only an irritant. As of the mid-80s it was not considered a human
carcinogen or teratogen.
NOTICE! 750 mg/kg seems like a lot. HOWEVER, these references hint that
at levels well below acute systemic toxicity, and/or after delays, there
could be brain, kidney, and liver damage. No quantitative information was
available.
Via inhalation, the Threshold Limit Value (ceiling never to be exceeded in
industrial exposure lest the regulators getcha) is 50 ppm vapor in air or
10 mg per cubic meter particulate in air.
Ethylene glycol is rated as a mild primary skin irritant and a moderate
eye irritant. This jibes with personal experience; it's never irritated
my skin but I take precautions to keep it out of my eyes.
Animals are at risk. It supposedly tastes good to animals, and they just
lap it up. They have a lot fewer kg to absorb each mg than you do.
Bye-bye, Fido. Hose down your spills.
Here are the emergency first aid procedures from the MSDS. (Any company
will be glad to give you an MSDS upon request these days.) Skin and
eye contact: flush with water. If swallowed, induce vomiting at once;
give one or two glasses of warm water, milk, or salt water. Keep
victim warm and call physician immediately.
Testimonial to the lawyer glut: The above was performed as a nonsponsored
coffee-break public service and does not necessarily represent the official
position of anybody. All claims are disclaimed.
--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
Rich Wales
and antifreeze.
Propylene glycol is supposedly almost as good as ethylene glycol for
automotive purposes. As I recall, it's slightly better as a coolant,
but not quite as good as an antifreeze; but the difference shouldn't
matter except in the most extreme of climates.
Unlike ethylene glycol, which is deathly poisonous, propylene glycol is
non-toxic. I understand it's actually used in certain food items. Of
course, a propylene-glycol-based antifreeze would probably have various
additives (rust inhibitors, etc.), so I wouldn't go out and quaff large
quantities of the stuff.
Also, propylene glycol does not have ethylene glycol's sweet smell. I
have never tried drinking it, so I can't tell you if it's sweet-tasting.
Presumably, the lack of an odor -- together with its non-toxicity --
would make propylene glycol much less of an "attractive nuisance" to
dogs and cats who might come across a radiator leak or the aftermath of
a sloppy radiator flush-and-refill.
--
Rich Wales <wa...@CS.UCLA.EDU> // UCLA Computer Science Department
3531 Boelter Hall // Los Angeles, CA 90024-1596 // +1 (213) 825-5683
necro...@maple.circa.ufl.edu
>Ethylene Glycol poisoning can be lethal. I would consider death a serious
>effect. Some people do think the treatment is fun, though, since it
>consists of being given intravenous alcohol.
Oh so very true. Ethylene Glycol can be lethal in as little as 1/2 an
ounce. As I believe it has already been stated, the breakdown product is very
poisonous. I would not take to drinking it. Although, I would like to know
what it feels like to get intravenously drunk. :)
-Oz
h philip chen
>Safer than the gasoline in the car. You should be able to drink antifreeze
>without any serious effects. Relax
Oh boy, this sounds too funny to be true. Well, if you're still alive
after you drank that stuff, you can walk across the North Pole and
probably not freeze! While you're still on vacation, you can walk
across the Sahara and not boil either! (Insert smiley here. Don't
drink it though.)
Well anyway, while we're still on the subject of exotic drinks, I
remember reading an article (some time ago) about people who drink
gasoline. (!!) It's not that they're that thirsty, but it's when they
use a hose and try to start the siphoning process (well, to transfer the
gas to another tank). They probably don't have a pump handy...
(I wonder if CR will do a taste test :-)
-h.philip
ch...@athena.ecs.csus.edu
PS. While you're at North Pole, get me Santa's fax number.
Doug Fierro
>
Doug
--
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Doug Fierro
<<The only guarantee in life is that you will die>> fie...@uts.amdahl.com
UNIX division
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Mike Whitbeck
|without any serious effects. Relax
WRONG!!!!!
automotive antifreeze generally contains ethylene glycol which is
VERY toxic either inhaled or ingested. See SAX , 6th ed, DANGEROUS
PROPERTIES OF INDUSTRIAL MATERIALS.
___________________________________________________________
|Mike Whitbeck | whit...@unssun.unr.edu |
|Desert Research Inst. | whit...@wheeler.wrc.unr.edu |
|POB 60220 | whit...@sanjuan.UUCP |
Mike Whitbeck
According to the 6th ed of SAX
ethylene glycol (aka 1,2-ethanediol) has a TLV of 100 parts per
million and is " Very tox[ic] in particulate form upon
inhal[ation]."
|mehcana| (undersampled)
>Some companies are marketing propylene glycol as an alternative coolant
>and antifreeze.
>
>
>non-toxic. I understand it's actually used in certain food items. Of
>
as an anti-freeze. You're supposed to flush it out, which
I do, but the bottle says to flush until the color is not
visible (non-fluorescent pink) at which point I'm sure there
is plenty of residual glycol. Non-toxic, and cheaper than
ethylene glycol.
Larry Lippman
>and antifreeze.
>Unlike ethylene glycol, which is deathly poisonous, propylene glycol is
>non-toxic.
I would say that propylene glycol is "relatively" non-toxic when
compared to say, ethylene glycol. The oral LD50 for propylene glycol is
probably ten times that of ethylene glycol. One of the metabolic products
of propylene glycol is lactic acid. It does not require too much imagination
to realize that an excess of lactic acid produced by ingestion of quantities
of propylene glycol is not without harmful effects.
>I understand it's actually used in certain food items.
In *small* quantities, though. Propylene glycol is commonly used
in soft drinks to facilitate the stable solution of flavoring ingredients.
>Also, propylene glycol does not have ethylene glycol's sweet smell. I
>have never tried drinking it, so I can't tell you if it's sweet-tasting.
Propylene glycol has virtually no odor or taste for most people.
Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp. "Have you hugged your cat today?"
VOICE: 716/688-1231 {boulder, rutgers, watmath}!ub!kitty!larry
FAX: 716/741-9635 [note: ub=acsu.buffalo.edu] uunet!/ \aerion!larry
Mike Zayas
" Norman."
Harmon Sommer
Reply-To: har...@mithril.WV.TEK.COM (Harmon Sommer)
Followup-To:
Distribution: sci
Organization: /usr/ens/etc/organization
Keywords:
>Safer than the gasoline in the car. You should be able to drink antifreeze
>without any serious effects. Relax ^^^^^
Not so! The Hazardous Chemical Date Handbook states that ingestion causes
a stupor and may lead to fatal kydney damage.
Dangerous Properties of Industrial Materials sez that it is reported the
100 ml will cause death and that particulate form is extremely toxic
if inhaled.
Michael Throm
>Reply-To: har...@mithril.WV.TEK.COM (Harmon Sommer)
>
>
>>Safer than the gasoline in the car. You should be able to drink antifreeze
>>without any serious effects. Relax ^^^^^
>
>Not so! The Hazardous Chemical Date Handbook states that ingestion causes
>a stupor and may lead to fatal kydney damage.
>
>Dangerous Properties of Industrial Materials sez that it is reported the
>100 ml will cause death and that particulate form is extremely toxic
>if inhaled.
I would also like to add ( if it has not been mentioned already) that anti-
freeze is one of the leading items for poisoning children. The reason is
that children find the taste and smell pleasant.(so I've heard) Safety
advocates have been pushing for years to have the manufacturers' put a
bittering agent into the coolant to prevent this. The manufacturers' said
5 cents per bottle was too costly! I think the UK already requires this
stuff in some household products.
On another note: I wonder how many people still pour the old anti-freeze
and oil down the drain so it can leach back into the water system again
for us to drink?
Mike
JOSEPH T CHEW
> and oil down the drain so it can leach back into the water system again
> for us to drink?
It may be (as it says on the maps, "make local inquiry") that the best
thing to do with antifreeze is to put it down the sewer (NOT storm drain,
which is untreated). I got that off the Material Safety Data Sheet for
a major brand of antifreeze.
Motor oil should be recycled, NOT poured down the drain.
Robert Heape
> freeze is one of the leading items for poisoning children. The reason is
> that children find the taste and smell pleasant.(so I've heard) Safety
> advocates have been pushing for years to have the manufacturers' put a
> bittering agent into the coolant to prevent this.
Just curious here, how do you test whether the antifreeze taste bitter
enough or not?
Regards,
Rob Heape
email: he...@tellabs.com