Aircooled VW vs Corvair
Chris Mikolasy
utility?
--
* email xop...@ot.com @fsTGF^kj#_223
NO CARRIER
Troy Wick
> utility?
unfortunately.
The corvair was completely stock, well worn, with twin rusted up
single barrel rochester carbs. It looked like crap, to put it
mildly, but talk about an impressive engine!
I don't even know much about them, mine was a 6 cylinder, not sure
if they all are, but I've never been more impressed by an engine.
This crummy old stock one would wheelie the rail all day, had more
power than a ported, polished, 2000+cc vw with dual dellorto's,
and ran strong all weekend long without a hitch or even a tuneup.
Don't get me wrong, I still love air cooled VW's, and have a couple
now, but if it's performance you're looking for and you have a line
on a corvair engine at a resonable price, I'd advise you to buy it!
If you don't, mail me the info on it and I might buy it. (Serious!)
The only bad things I've heard about them is that they tend to
rattle bolts and screws loose because they shake a lot, so if you're
building one take the time to use locktite everywhere you can.
Well, and of course parts are more expensive and harder to find, two
to three times the price of VW sometimes, but I'd expect them to
require less maintenance so it should even out that way. There is
at least one corvair parts mail order company here in oregon, probably
more.
I'd also like to hear about them from someone with more experience
than myself so anyone in the know please respond.
I'm seriously considering putting one into my "Speed Buggy" type
dune buggy that I'm painstakingly restoring right now.
Troy
Mark Shaw
|> > How do they compare...handling, performance, ease of maintenance,
|> > utility?
|>
|> I've had both, in sandrails, the corvair I only had for 1 weekend
|> unfortunately.
|>
|> The corvair was completely stock, well worn, with twin rusted up
|> single barrel rochester carbs. It looked like crap, to put it
|> mildly, but talk about an impressive engine!
|>
|> I don't even know much about them, mine was a 6 cylinder, not sure
|> if they all are, but I've never been more impressed by an engine.
|> This crummy old stock one would wheelie the rail all day, had more
|> power than a ported, polished, 2000+cc vw with dual dellorto's,
|> and ran strong all weekend long without a hitch or even a tuneup.
|>
|> Don't get me wrong, I still love air cooled VW's, and have a couple
|> now, but if it's performance you're looking for and you have a line
|> on a corvair engine at a resonable price, I'd advise you to buy it!
Well, when I was building up my "killer" Bug at the dealer's shop in
1969 (the service manager was a close friend) there was also a kid
down there trying to install a Corvair engine. When it was in parts
I was totally amazed at how crude the heads and case were cast and
the number of seals used. Looked like a lot of problems in the making.
Then there is the guy I know now who races Corvairs in Vintage Racing.
He has lost engines so frequently he has asked me to help come up with
a way to warn him of excessive knock or fan belt failures (Corvair
engines use the most unusual fan belt routing). In many cases he
has opted for as new a component design as Vintage racing will allow.
The old design was not that good.
And as for performance, one would expect a 164 cu.in. engine to be
somewhat better than a 97 cu.in. engine. That's 2.7 liters versus
1.6 L! Should give more grunt torque, but was not a good high rev
engine. My current Chevy has a 2.8L V6 which would really scare the
pants off you in a 700-pound sand rail. Despite the added displacement
the basic Corvair engine was only about 95-105 hp back in the 60s. A far
cry from the 100hp per liter that is generally possible today. And one
reason you should easily wheelie in a Corvair-powered sand rail is because
of the all that added weight behind the rear axle!
In case it is not obvious, I was and never have been impressed with the
Corvair engine. They are way too complex, not terribly reliable, hard to
get parts for now and not suited for light vehicles where the engine's weight
would upset an already skewed weight distribution.
IMHO, Corvair engines are best left for vintage Corvair cars.
(and if my friend gets his hands on it, it will probably turn
into another molten mass of metal).
Mark
Troy Wick
> And one
> reason you should easily wheelie in a Corvair-powered sand rail is because
> of the all that added weight behind the rear axle!
>
Yes, but it was a mid engine sandrail. (Tranny in the back, engine
behind the seat facing backwards.) If the engine had been in back
then wheelie's wouldn't have been impressive now would they.
I guess alot of the reason I was so impressed was price-vs-power.
I bought that rail complete for $700, cleaned the dirt and dust
off, put on new paddles, and had a blast.
I do appreciate your input though, thanks.
Troy
xopher
I found a Corvair mailing list...request it from br...@mitre.org!
Here in Pennsylvania, I've seen quite a few running Corvairs for around
$500...you could get a motor that way.
If not for the Bug, the Corvair probably never would have been built.
Steve Belansky
1) The 110 HP twin carb version (Monza)
2) The 140 HP 4 carb version (Corsa)
3) The 180 HP Supercharged version (Spyder)
There may have been other variants also.
The most common problems that I recall were oil leaks and tossed fan
belts.
The cars could have withstood the test of time, had not bad publicity
(among other problems) forced their demise. Too bad because some of the
later models were pretty slick for their day.
Ken Rolt 131-5750
: As I recall, the Corvair primarily had the following engines;
: 2) The 140 HP 4 carb version (Corsa)
: 3) The 180 HP Supercharged version (Spyder)
: There may have been other variants also.
yep. 1960: 140 cid, 80 and 95 hp gross SAE.
the 95 hp had cam & exhaust differences. both had
two-carbs.
1961-1963: 145 cid (2.6" stroke like 1960 models, slightly
larger bore.) 80, 84, 98, 102 hp flavors depending
on transmission, cam, exhaust. All had around 128
to 132 ft-lbs torque at 2400 to 3000 (or-so) rpm.
these were also two-carb engines. there was also a
150 hp turbocharged engine with HD rods, pistons,
oil cooler. this was the Spyder engine. 210 ft-lbs
torque at 4400 rpm or-so.
1964-1969 164 cid from longer 2.94" stroke, same bore as 61-63.
two carb engine were 95 and 110 hp (cam and cr) for
all years 1964-1969. four-carb engine 140 hp in
1965-1969. turbo engine was 150 hp in 1964 (but
210 ft-lb at 4000 rpm), then 180 hp in 1965-1966
(and 232 ft-lbs torque). Turbo used exclusively in
the 1964 Spyder, and an option only in the 65-66
Corsa model (Corsa model came std with 140hp).
Monza was a sporty version of 1960-1969 Corvairs. All convertibles
were at the very least Monzas (or possibly the higher-grade Spyder
or Corsa). The Corsa (1965-1966 only) replaced the Spyder model
(1962-1964 only). The supercharger used on Corvairs from the factory
was a TRW turbo unit. Paxton and Judson, among others, made belt-
driven superchargers for Corvairs and VWs in the 60s, but the factory
opted for the turbo instead.
: The most common problems that I recall were oil leaks and tossed fan
: belts.
especially the oil leaks. the problem was basically solved when
better rubber o-rings were developed (using Viton e.g.)
: The cars could have withstood the test of time, had not bad publicity
: (among other problems) forced their demise. Too bad because some of the
: later models were pretty slick for their day.
yes. The kit to install a Corvair powerplant is still being sold
by Clark's Corvair Parts in Shelburne Falls, MA. Any of the above
engines will give better performance than any VW plant for the simple
reason of cubic inches from the stock Corvair motor and the resulting
torque increase. The kits are good, been used for almost 30 years
now, but aren't cheap. And you have to do the work yourself, and it
won't be stock anymore. The kit can, I believe, be used for Corvair
installation into a Type I, Ghia, or Type II bus. I think it can
also be used in a 912 Porsche too, and there is a guy in Denver CO
who has done many Corvair engines installations into 911s.
I'm not recommending this swap, nor am I against it. Just providing
some info. The Corvair email list is on
and can be subscribed/unsubscribed to via
with the appropriate susbscribe or unsubscribe word. The Corvair
homepage, in a startup mode, is on
http://haycorn.psy.cmu.edu/virtualVairs
More power to aircooling no matter your vehicle choice.
Enjoy. - Ken Rolt
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kenneth D. Rolt, Ph.D. kdr...@sanders.com
Sanders ASW, "a Lockheed-Martin Company"
MAN 6-2100 / P.O. Box 868 603 / 645-5750
Nashua, NH 03061-0868 U.S.A. fax: 603 / 645-5731
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Troy Wick
> : As I recall, the Corvair primarily had the following engines;
> : 1) The 110 HP twin carb version (Monza)
> : 2) The 140 HP 4 carb version (Corsa)
> : 3) The 180 HP Supercharged version (Spyder)
> : There may have been other variants also.
>
> yep. 1960: 140 cid, 80 and 95 hp gross SAE.
> the 95 hp had cam & exhaust differences. both had
> two-carbs.
<Awesome statistics deleted to save bandwidth.>
Thanks a bunch, to all who replied.
And to put everyones minds at ease I thought I'd put out a reminder
that I wanted this info for my manx dune buggy on a type 1 pan.
As in, NO, I'M NOT RUINING A VW.
Actually, I've sorta breathed new life out of piles of dead parts.
The pan was out of a absolutely pathetic looking smashed pile of
rust that only resembled a Bug after reclaiming it from a
overgrown blackberry bush.
There was no way the body could have been saved, it looked as though
someone took a sledge hammer to it again, and again, and again...
I've spent two months so far disasembling everything down to the
component level, sandblasting and wire brushing every metal part
down to bare metal, and when I'm done this pan will have another
20 years of life left in it, and be practically show quality.
(I'm not sure I'll have the heart to offroad it now.)
Lastly, does anyone on here know what issues of Dune buggies and hot
vw's has pictures of other manx dune buggies? (Like the speed buggy
cartoon if you don't know what a manx is)
Or other books/ magazines for that matter.
It's been a while since I've had a VW, and haven't bought that mag
since then.
Now I'm trying to decide on paint colors... I'm starting to
consider Green and Purple.... one color for the body, and the other
for the rollbar, front and rear guards, and pan. Sound disgusting?
The more I visualize it, the more I'm drawn to those colors.
Sort of Kawasaki Green, and grape bubble gum Purple.
Thanks
Troy
leo mulvihill
: : There may have been other variants also.
: yep. 1960: 140 cid, 80 and 95 hp gross SAE.
: the 95 hp had cam & exhaust differences. both had
: two-carbs.
: 1961-1963: 145 cid (2.6" stroke like 1960 models, slightly