Manual Transmission problem (grinding on 2nd gear)
Kevin Mouton
>
> My '89 Probe LX was having a routine Oil & Lube when the mechanic asked me
> how long ago I'd last had the manual transmission fluid replaced ("it's
> kinda dirty", he said). Hmmm.. don't recall ever having had it done(!), but
> gear changes had seemed a little stiff recently. So for $30 he said he'd
> change it. He did. A few days later, as I was accelerating hard from a
> traffic light, a nasty gear-grinding sound happened when I shifted into 2nd
> gear. The shifter didn't quite want to go into 2nd for a few fractions of a
> second, hence the noise. Didn't think too much of it after that as it didn't
> happen again for at least a few days...
>
> Now a couple of weeks later, 2nd gear is giving me embarassing grinding
> sounds 3 or 4 times per day on my way to and from work ("Learn to drive a
> 5-spd", I can hear everyone else thinking!) Most the time it's okay, but
> every now and again, when shifting down from 3rd, or up from 1st, 2nd gear
> will grind.
>
> I've mentioned this to a few friends, and they all say "oh, that's because
> you changed the fluid -- dirty fluid was what your car was used to and it
> doesn't like the clean stuff." How true is this?
>
> From what I've described above, can anyone tell me:
> 1) what specific part sounds like it may be damaged?
> 2) is the condition likely to get worse if not fixed soon?
> 3) how to fix, and how expensive is it likely to be?
>
> Thanks,
> DanielB
There is some truth to the fluid change affecting the problem.
You have a worn Second gear synchronizer. It is a sort of clutching
device that speeds up the gear to match the shaft speed before engaging.
The gummy old fluid probably helped the clutching effect of the worn
synchronizer, but now that is gone and the worn clutching surface slips
enough to cause the grinding when shifting into second gear.
A synchronizer is not very expensive (maybe 30 or 40 dollars), but the
labor to totally disassemble the transmission to replace the part is
going to hurt your pocket book plenty. You will also most likely find
that once the transmission is disassembled and inspected there will be
other parts that should be replaced during the repair.
Basically what you can expect is total transmission overhaul to the
tune of around 1500 to 2500 dollars at a reputable shop.
You may find it cheaper to look for a good used transmission or a
rebuilt one with a warranty. There are a number of sources for good used
transmissions on the internet, just search for used or salvage auto
parts.
Good luck,
--
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****************************************************
Kevin Mouton ..... Automotive Technology Instructor
"If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy"
Red Green
DanielB
Nathan J. Nagel
Redline MTL or Redline MT-90 (whichever is appropriate for your car) -
in a VW it's an easy way to nurse along a dying synchro, and you get the
added benefit of super slick shifts even first thing in the morning on a
cold day. But Kevin is probably right, if it's as bad as you say don't
expect miracles.
nate
Kevin Mouton wrote:
Montblack
DanielB wrote in message ...
>My '89 Probe LX was having a routine Oil & Lube when the mechanic asked me
>how long ago I'd last had the manual transmission fluid replaced ("it's
Can someone who has done this (in the driveway) give me a quickie
walk-through? We've never changed the manual trani fluid (hanging head in
shame). Is it reachable; on your back, in the driveway? Another few nights
like last night and it will be in the garage with the heater turned on!!
Any "things to know" before doing a manual trani fluid change? How much
fluid are we talking about? .....I'm looking for the manual as I type. Still
looking ....
Montblack
89 GL 5 spd - Original clutch
Original owner (Aug 4, 1988)
172,000 Minnesota miles ...
jiva
>Can someone who has done this (in the driveway) give me a quickie
>walk-through? We've never changed the manual trani fluid (hanging head in
>shame). Is it reachable; on your back, in the driveway? Another few nights
>like last night and it will be in the garage with the heater turned on!!
>
>Any "things to know" before doing a manual trani fluid change? How much
>fluid are we talking about? .....I'm looking for the manual as I type. Still
>looking ....
>
>Montblack
>89 GL 5 spd - Original clutch
>Original owner (Aug 4, 1988)
>172,000 Minnesota miles ...
>
GL ? Subie? Might be hard to crawl under in driveway ... anywho ... find out
what the proper lube is, find the in and out plugs. Remove the out plug
(bottom) and let it drain. Replace plug. Remove the in plug (side) and refill
(usually) to the level of the hole with the vehicle on level ground. Get one
of the lube bottles with the pump if you can't get to the fill hole with tube
and funnel from above. Lube is usually in the 1-2 qt. range. Possibly more if
that's a 4wd with shared transfer case. The (expensive) Redline MT lube
mentioned earlier would make cold weather shifting easier.
Thomas Stubbs
The filler is the speedo cable, you have to undo a nut on the clamp,
then
pull it out. TO check the level you reinsert the cable and see the
level on
the plastic gear.
Brad
> Just FYI, the guy at the Lube place said $30... drained the fluid from below
> the car, then had a HECK OF A TIME trying to fill the damn thing. Turns out
> they have to remove the Speedometer cable to fill it. Only my speedo was
> STUCK and they couldn't get the damn thing apart. They took out the air box,
> some tubing, and a few other parts for better access - but no go. About an
> hour later, they jacked the car up on a hoist, removed the front-left wheel,
> the driveaxle, and a few other things and were finally able to get the whole
> speedo attachment out.
>
> They still charged me the 30 bucks they'd promised me, but it took them over
> 1 1/2hrs, and was a BIG job due to the complications. I left thinking it was
> the best $30 I'd ever spent on the car.
>
> Now I'm wishing I HADN'T had it done.
> hmmmm.... shall I go back and get them to refill it with dirty fluid?? :o))
It boggles my mind why they would need to take the axle off in order to
reach the speedometer connection. It's not too hard getting a vice
grips or something on there by just coming up from underneath.
Why don't you like the new fluid? What's the problem now?
DanielB
Just FYI, the guy at the Lube place said $30... drained the fluid from below
the car, then had a HECK OF A TIME trying to fill the damn thing. Turns out
they have to remove the Speedometer cable to fill it. Only my speedo was
STUCK and they couldn't get the damn thing apart. They took out the air box,
some tubing, and a few other parts for better access - but no go. About an
hour later, they jacked the car up on a hoist, removed the front-left wheel,
the driveaxle, and a few other things and were finally able to get the whole
speedo attachment out.
They still charged me the 30 bucks they'd promised me, but it took them over
1 1/2hrs, and was a BIG job due to the complications. I left thinking it was
the best $30 I'd ever spent on the car.
Now I'm wishing I HADN'T had it done.
hmmmm.... shall I go back and get them to refill it with dirty fluid?? :o))
DanielB
R Smith
consistent. I've had this problem with underfilled trannies. Usually
before the car has been driven for a while.
But I'd, check the level, make sure the fluid type that was used was the
correct one and resort to the overhaul as a last step.
GL,
Rob Smith
"Nathan J. Nagel" <nna...@ellenco.net> wrote in message
news:39C9EF3E...@ellenco.net...
> Before you tear it down, try changing the fluid again with either
> Redline MTL or Redline MT-90 (whichever is appropriate for your car) -
> in a VW it's an easy way to nurse along a dying synchro, and you get the
> added benefit of super slick shifts even first thing in the morning on a
> cold day. But Kevin is probably right, if it's as bad as you say don't
> expect miracles.
>
> nate
>
> Kevin Mouton wrote:
> >
> > DanielB wrote:
> > >
> > > My '89 Probe LX was having a routine Oil & Lube when the mechanic
asked me
> > > how long ago I'd last had the manual transmission fluid replaced
("it's
> > > kinda dirty", he said). Hmmm.. don't recall ever having had it
Leon
is not good practice for automatics).
Definately a wrong oil used. Sometimes these expensive transmissions oils
cause exactly what you are describing. Your synchros are still OK but
change the oil ASAP with the correct type of oil; maybe a cheap 10W-40 will
work wonders. Check the owners manual.
Till then shift slowly and keep the revs low.
If it makes you feel better, the gearbox plug usually is magnetic to collect
occasional gear grind.
Bye,
Leon
"DanielB" <dan...@idirect.ca> wrote in message
news:BEey5.29818$M%3.18...@quark.idirect.com...
Mark
DanielB wrote:
> Now a couple of weeks later, 2nd gear is giving me embarassing grinding
> sounds 3 or 4 times per day on my way to and from work ("Learn to drive a
> 5-spd", I can hear everyone else thinking!) Most the time it's okay, but
> every now and again, when shifting down from 3rd, or up from 1st, 2nd gear
> will grind.
>
>
I have a 95 Probe SE with a four banger. for a while now it's been grinding
when I put it into third gear. It doens't grind when I let the rpm's go down to
around 1500 but I keep getting asked why I wait so long to shift, and when i
dont' wait i get laughed at for grinding....
So, send me the bad news...
thanks.
Matt B.
ervin.l...@bigfoot.com
shifting to 2nd gear. However, it seems like the break on transmission
clutch and systems (clutch disk, clutch cover, pilot bearing/gear) and
may be the scratched flywheel (could be repaired in the workshop, and
should be re-balanced). Do you use carb version or EFI? If carb, the
carb should be adjusted again, or there's a bad engine mounting. I've
replaced and repaired all above, and the problem has gone.
Ervin L
In article <39F7C2DD...@centurytel.net>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
bror...@my-deja.com
Sounds to me like you folks have a beaten-up synchronizer (well, at
least one but the others might be 'iffy') that is giving up the ghost.
This is expensive to replace as it involves removing the transmission
and really tearing into it. While you're at it, you might as well
rebuild the whole unit or replace the tranny with a good, low-mileage
used one.
I'm guessing your shifting technique, at least going into certain
gears, was a little imprecise and was hard on the synchro ... or the
trannies each had their own weak link and you guys finally
discovered 'em. Rough use (power-shifting, etc ...) could also account
for the wear of synchros as they are fairly fragile. Racing
transmissions do not use them because of this.
--- Bror Jace
Mark
bror...@my-deja.com wrote:
I just had the tranny fluid replaced also. Do you think this could be at
fault? One of my friends said that 3rd gear is at the bottom or whatever
so would be the one affected by low fluid. Also, my clutch is prettty
touchy, I thought maybe that would be at fault. Do you think loosening it
would help?
Thanks.
Matt B.
bror...@my-deja.com
> I just had the tranny fluid replaced also. Do you think this could
be at fault?
** I doubt that's the problem but you could check.
>Also, my clutch is prettty touchy, I thought maybe that would be at
fault. Do you think loosening it would help?
** Touchy? With the engine running or off, step on the clutch pedal and
push it in. Is there any 'slack' at the top of its travel? Any loose
travel before it engages? If you step on the clutch pedal and you can
feel it engaging right away (no slack or play), your problem may be
your clutch is worn out. Better get this checked out ASAP because it
could leave you stranded all of a sudden.
** Bror Jace
zwge...@gmail.com
> >
> > My '89 Probe LX was having a routine Oil & Lube when the mechanic asked me
> > how long ago I'd last had the manual transmission fluid replaced ("it's
> > kinda dirty", he said). Hmmm.. don't recall ever having had it done(!), but
> > gear changes had seemed a little stiff recently. So for $30 he said he'd
> > change it. He did. A few days later, as I was accelerating hard from a
> > traffic light, a nasty gear-grinding sound happened when I shifted into 2nd
> > gear. The shifter didn't quite want to go into 2nd for a few fractions of a
> > second, hence the noise. Didn't think too much of it after that as it didn't
> > happen again for at least a few days...
> >
> > sounds 3 or 4 times per day on my way to and from work ("Learn to drive a
> > 5-spd", I can hear everyone else thinking!) Most the time it's okay, but
> > every now and again, when shifting down from 3rd, or up from 1st, 2nd gear
> > will grind.
> >
> > you changed the fluid -- dirty fluid was what your car was used to and it
> > doesn't like the clean stuff." How true is this?
> >
> > From what I've described above, can anyone tell me:
> > 1) what specific part sounds like it may be damaged?
> > 2) is the condition likely to get worse if not fixed soon?
> > 3) how to fix, and how expensive is it likely to be?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > DanielB
>
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