Feds Investigate Toyota Highway-Speed Random Stalling Problem
john
Toyota Motor Corp. vehicles after drivers reported that their cars
stalled in traffic, sometimes at highway speeds.
Consumers "allege stalls occurring randomly while driving, including
some on highways and some in intersections," the agency stated."
dr_jeff
> john <john...@hotmail.com> found these unused words:
Don't forget GM, Fiat, Honda and Kia.
hls
"john" <john...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f0ca0641-483c-4c1a...@u36g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
Neither of mine ever stalled. I had a GM Buick Regal that was a deathtrap,
until I
built a fire under GM... Seems they knew there was a bad run of ECMs but
never had
a recall. Freaking dealership took my car in multiple times, but never read
the TSBs .
A new run ECM cured the problem, but not without a fight.
som...@some.domain
ransley
> john <johngd...@hotmail.com> found these unused words:
>
> >"Federal safety officials have opened a probe into two models of
> >Toyota Motor Corp. vehicles after drivers reported that their cars
> >stalled in traffic, sometimes at highway speeds.
>
> >Consumers "allege stalls occurring randomly while driving, including
> >some on highways and some in intersections," the agency stated."
>
>
> Are you a troll for Ford or Nissan?
He is posting facts, but what are you a toyota employee, answer the
fact a probe is opened, so toyota has sold alot of defective crap over
the last few years, its a fact. The new camry trans that slips, the
earlier sludge engines, the wrong pinion gears in pickups, now go sell
anothe toyota, I own one, but next time its a Ford, made in the USA
where the money stays.
Desertphile
<john...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Consumers "allege stalls occurring randomly while driving, including
> some on highways and some in intersections," the agency stated."
People believe a lot of things. =YAWN!= Come back when there's
actual evidence of a problem.
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
Jeff Strickland
"Desertphile" <deser...@invalid-address.net> wrote in message
news:5jaqh51laq53mmpli...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 09:57:57 -0800 (PST), john
> <john...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Consumers "allege stalls occurring randomly while driving, including
>> some on highways and some in intersections," the agency stated."
>
> People believe a lot of things. =YAWN!= Come back when there's
> actual evidence of a problem.
>
Yeah, it's a bitch when they "believe" the car stopped running on the
highway for no apparent reason. Stupid people.
Desertphile
Yes, it is a bitch when they believe it was the cars' fault and
not the drivers'.
dr_jeff
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:28:54 -0800, "Jeff Strickland"
> <crwl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> "Desertphile" <deser...@invalid-address.net> wrote in message
>> news:5jaqh51laq53mmpli...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 09:57:57 -0800 (PST), john
>>> <john...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Consumers "allege stalls occurring randomly while driving, including
>>>> some on highways and some in intersections," the agency stated."
>>> People believe a lot of things. =YAWN!= Come back when there's
>>> actual evidence of a problem.
>
>> Yeah, it's a bitch when they "believe" the car stopped running on the
>> highway for no apparent reason. Stupid people.
>
> Yes, it is a bitch when they believe it was the cars' fault and
> not the drivers'.
Sometimes it is the car's fault. Sometimes it the driver's.
Jeff Strickland
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:28:54 -0800, "Jeff Strickland"
> <crwl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Desertphile" <deser...@invalid-address.net> wrote in message
>> news:5jaqh51laq53mmpli...@4ax.com...
>> > On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 09:57:57 -0800 (PST), john
>> > <john...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Consumers "allege stalls occurring randomly while driving, including
>> >> some on highways and some in intersections," the agency stated."
>> >
>> > People believe a lot of things. =YAWN!= Come back when there's
>> > actual evidence of a problem.
>
>> Yeah, it's a bitch when they "believe" the car stopped running on the
>> highway for no apparent reason. Stupid people.
>
> Yes, it is a bitch when they believe it was the cars' fault and
> not the drivers'.
>
At 70mph, there's not much the driver can do to stall the motor.
Jeff Strickland
"dr_jeff" <u...@msu.edu> wrote in message
news:9KmdnRgQSZviDoDW...@giganews.com...
An engine that stalls while crusing is never the driver's fault. Maybe the
stall at the intersection can be pegged on the driver, but when a car is
cruising down the highway at cruising speed and the engine shuts down, it's
never the driver's fault.
cuh...@webtv.net
www.dailyjobcuts.com
The article links to www.motorsport.com
Toyota is laying off.
cuhulin
studio
> "Federal safety officials have opened a probe into two models of
> Toyota Motor Corp. vehicles after drivers reported that their cars
> stalled in traffic, sometimes at highway speeds.
I had a 1989 Toyota pickup that tried doing that at highway speeds.
For some reason the electronic part that stops the engine from
dieseling after you turn it off was defective and the culprit.
hls
"Jeff Strickland" <crwl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hfkf6q$aq9$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
I had a Sonoma stall on me twice the other day at the posted speed limit.
It was a cold day and I hadnt warmed the engine before I started out.
I could have taken the time to let the engine warm up. I guess that made
it my fault?
Jeff Strickland
"hls" <h...@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:acmdnSZfgptJ8YPW...@giganews.com...
The report was that the car was being driven on the freeway when the engine
shut down for no apparent reason. Some might call that a stall. None would
agree that such an event could be driver induced.
You pull out of the neighborhood with a cold motor and the engine stalls as
you pull up to the traffic light is an entirely different matter. But if the
car will not idle, it's broken. Do you care? Apparently not. Is it critical?
No. But if you were cruising along on the freeway and the engine took the
opportunity to shut off for no reason, I'm pretty sure you would be
concerned.
hls
<cuh...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:15021-4B1...@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net...
Toyota, Honda, BMW and others have found F1 racing a bit rich for their
blood, especially when the global market is as distressed as it is now.
The F1 teams may be set up in different ways, some with direct factory
sponsorship, and other that are privately owned and may use components
such as engines from some of the major manufacturers.
We are talking about budgets of several hundred million dollars per year in
some of these cases.
If you are not winning a world championship, or in that league, you might
wonder why you would spend this kind of money...and you may well decide
to get out of racing.
It is a bit of a shame that a major sophisticated company like BMW couldnt
be a success in F1....an embarassment maybe.
Ross Brawn took over the Honda effort and used the Mercedes power plant.
He and the team won the World Constructors championship and the World
Driving championship, coming from nowhere.
Bottom line...there is an immense amount of prestige and fame that comes
from
competing well in this sport. It has made Ferrari and McLaren Mercedes into
legends. You can also lose your magic beans in trying to keep up with the
really
serious players.
Toyota opted out. Too bad, but probably the right business decision. Honda
left
last year, after a very embarassing time in the sport.
This is no poorboy sport, and I am not sure who, if anyone, makes any money
from
it, other than the drivers.
hls
>
> The report was that the car was being driven on the freeway when the
> engine shut down for no apparent reason. Some might call that a stall.
> None would agree that such an event could be driver induced.
>
> You pull out of the neighborhood with a cold motor and the engine stalls
> as you pull up to the traffic light is an entirely different matter. But
> if the car will not idle, it's broken. Do you care? Apparently not. Is it
> critical? No. But if you were cruising along on the freeway and the engine
> took the opportunity to shut off for no reason, I'm pretty sure you would
> be concerned.
In the case of the Sonoma, the car was not properly warmed up, but DID
stall twice under driving conditions. It had never done this before, nor
did
it repeat after total warmul.
In the case of the damned Buick Regal I referenced, this thing would shut
down wherever the heck it wanted to, warm or cold, any speed.
It WAS a bad ECU.
I was exasperated after having gone to the Buick dealership 6-7 times
and they always told me the mechanic couldnt make it act up. The last
time, I told them to let me ride with the mechanic and I would show them,
but they refused. I asked them to check the TSBs on this car, and they
assured
me that they had. (Lie!)
On the way back to my office, the damn thing died on the freeway 3-4 times.
Now mad as hell, I called GM until I found was would be referred to as a
zone representative and told them that this damned car was going to get me
killed.
Immediately the representative told me that they knew all about it, there
had been
TSBs on this, and the problem was defective run of ECMs.
About two hours later, the shop foreman at the dealership called me, mad as
hell.
WHY DID I CALL GM AND EMBARASS THEM! Because, you simple shit,
this car was going to kill me, and I had exhausted every avenue with him and
with
the mechanics. About a half hour later the owner of the dealership called
me
personally and apologized.
Moral: Not everybody at GM is a shit and incompetent, but some are. Any
car
with defective systems can kill you. And sometimes you have to take the
crusade
to the edge of Jerusalem before you get any satisfaction.
Tegger
"hls" <h...@nospam.nix> wrote in
news:gNmdnWaTipAQt73W...@giganews.com:
> I asked them to check the TSBs on this car,
> and they assured me that they had. (Lie!)
It's not just GM. It's everybody, as fas ar I can see.
One thing that absolutely shocks me about ALL auto dealerships I've ever
had any kind of experience with is how seemingly infrequently anybody
bothers to even /look/ at the TSBs that come in, let alone actually /read/
them.
My understanding is that dealerships are supposed to print these out each
month and put them in binders for all to read, but few seem to actually do
that.
Isn't anybody that works for a dealership inquisitive or dedicated enough
(or enough of an innate engineer) to be curious about what the TSBs say and
the problems they fix? Apparently not. And too bad for the unlucky owners
who have to pay for it all.
--
Tegger
cuh...@webtv.net
if an 18 wheeler is nosing your tail and if your car stalls/engine quits
running,,,,,,
cuhulin
Tegger
3172.bay.webtv.net:
There's a Sprint car driver in hospital right now. That's exactly what
happened to him, except it was the car in FRONT that stalled.
And since Sprint cars are direct-drive, that car came to an almost instant
dead-stop. Travis Rutz was immediately behind this particular car, and
crashed into him.
Travis Rutz is still in a coma.
<http://www.travisrutz.com/travisrutz.com/Home/Home.html>
--
Tegger
Jeff Strickland
"hls" <h...@nospam.nix> wrote in message
>
> "Jeff Strickland" <crwl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:hflvnd$pt2$1...@news.eternal-
>>
>> The report was that the car was being driven on the freeway when the
>> engine shut down for no apparent reason. Some might call that a stall.
>> None would agree that such an event could be driver induced.
>>
>> You pull out of the neighborhood with a cold motor and the engine stalls
>> as you pull up to the traffic light is an entirely different matter. But
>> if the car will not idle, it's broken. Do you care? Apparently not. Is it
>> critical? No. But if you were cruising along on the freeway and the
>> engine took the opportunity to shut off for no reason, I'm pretty sure
>> you would be concerned.
>
> In the case of the Sonoma, the car was not properly warmed up, but DID
> stall twice under driving conditions. It had never done this before, nor
> did
> it repeat after total warmul.
>
Why do you bring this shit up?
The issue we are discussing is the Matrix and Yaris that after becoming
fully warmed up, stall on the freeway while doing freeway speeds. The
comment I made was that the driver can't do anything in this condition to
cause a stall, and I said this in reaponse to some yahoo that said the
driver was at fault.
Vic Smith
wrote:
>
>Isn't anybody that works for a dealership inquisitive or dedicated enough
>(or enough of an innate engineer) to be curious about what the TSBs say and
>the problems they fix? Apparently not. And too bad for the unlucky owners
>who have to pay for it all.
Only dealership I ever dealt with was Tom Todd Chevrolet in Wheeling,
IL. Bought my '88 Celebrity there in Feb of '91, and a 2-yr warranty
for $450, their cost. Right there was a good start. The used car guy
had told me the car was still under warranty, but when I did the
financing, turned out it wasn't because the dealership had taken
ownership after the first owner traded it in so they could use it for
a loaner. Finance guy called in the big boss in and they quickly
offered me the warranty at cost.
That paid for itself the first year with a PS pump replacement.
The car had been dead quiet, and I started hearing the pump.
Took it in and a mech jumped in the passenger seat to hear what I
heard. Said "Yep. Needs a new pump."
Went to work in their courtesy car and picked it up that afternoon.
Brought it in the next morning because I could hear a different noise.
Mech jumped in passenger seat and I drove out in the parking lot and
right away he said they put on the wrong hoses for the new pump.
Courtesy car to work, and after work it wasn't ready, so they gave me
a loaner because they had to keep it overnight.
Good for a year, then it failed emissions. Ran fine and quiet though.
Took it in and they replaced a bad injector, put in new wires and
plugs, and told me to use OEM AC plugs. I had but Bosch in it.
Probably didn't even need plugs, but I was used to doing them once or
twice a year on my carbed, points ignition cars I'd had until then.
Couldn't adjust I guess, and had to tinker.
Took it in once more when a power window switch failed.
Every time it cost me a 50 buck deductible. A bargain overall.
Oddly, after the warranty expired it never needed any work the
warranty would have covered. Just normal brake work, and I put new
front coils and a dogbone in it. And an alt.
I beat that car to death for 10 years.
But it didn't die, it rusted away. Still the best car I ever had.
If I could buy a new one today, I wouldn't hesitate for a second.
That dealership died some years ago. Don't know why. I got real good
service from them. They actually sent me customer service
surveys/questionaires.
I think the key to dealerships is finding one with a good rep, and
close to home or work. Make sure they have a service to get you to
and from work, and provide a loaner if they keep the car overnight.
Doesn't get better than that. Assuming the problems are infrequent
and fixed the first time.
The first clue is the service manager.
He's the key to the operation. If he's a slug nobody will come out
alive.
--Vic
Ashton Crusher
We had a bunch of them in our fleet back then. They were one of the
best cars GM has made. Mostly bulletproof.
ben91932
wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 09:57:57 -0800 (PST), john
>
> > Consumers "allege stalls occurring randomly while driving, including
> > some on highways and some in intersections," the agency stated."
>
> People believe a lot of things. =YAWN!= Come back when there's
> actual evidence of a problem.
The stalling at cruise *is* evidence. Cars aint supposed to do that.
Ben
ben91932
> > Yes, it is a bitch when they believe it was the cars' fault and
> > not the drivers'.
>
> At 70mph, there's not much the driver can do to stall the motor.
the car to quit on the freeway...please!
Ben
ben91932
> I had a Sonoma stall on me twice the other day at the posted speed limit.
> It was a cold day and I hadnt warmed the engine before I started out.
>
> I could have taken the time to let the engine warm up. I guess that made
> it my fault?
Not just no but hell no.
Our modern cars are designed to be started and driven immediately.
A car that quits running is broken, plain and simple. Drivers cant
pedal pump or drag the brakes or anything else to force a good woring
new car to stall or quit at any speed.
Ben
ben91932
>
> One thing that absolutely shocks me about ALL auto dealerships I've ever
> had any kind of experience with is how seemingly infrequently anybody
> bothers to even /look/ at the TSBs that come in, let alone actually /read/
> them.
Every one of my graduates and buddies that work at dealerships get the
cars service history and tsb histories before the open the hood. Most
of the TSBs are factory paid and gravy for the technicians, and the
perform all tsb stuff before anything else. Thats BMW, Honda, Ford,
MBZ, Hyundai, Kia and VW/Audi.
Maybe its a SoCal thing.
I do a tsb search on Mitchel on demand on every car that my students
service prior to any work.
HTH
Ben
hls
>
>
> Why do you bring this shit up?
Because I wanted to , and it is appropriate, regardless of the make and
model.
Wayne
"hls" <h...@nospam.nix> wrote in message
LOL...I assume that like me, you finally saw the light and went Toyota. If a
GM stalls, and a Toyota stalls, I have much more confidence that Toyota
can/will fix it.
C. E. White
"Wayne" <mygarb...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hfr7c9$rat$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> LOL...I assume that like me, you finally saw the light and went
> Toyota. If a GM stalls, and a Toyota stalls, I have much more
> confidence that Toyota can/will fix it.
This is exactly the sort of claim that drives me crazy. Toyota is far
more aggressive at denying problem, fighting recalls and misleading
Customer than GM ever was. I don't care for GM cars, and would agree
that in the last ten to fifteen years the average Toyota is probably
better assembled than the average GM product (just an opinion). But
you are never going to convince me that Toyota bends over backward to
please their Customers. Look at the recent history - Rusting truck
frames - Toyota did zip until NHTSA treatened a recall. Massive truck
balljoint failures - Toyota repeately lied about the extent of the
problem and did nothing until NHTSA treatened a recall. Sludge prone
engines - Toyota did nothing until the publicity was so bad they had
to give in, but they still tried to lay ALL the blame on their
Customers. How about V6 head gasket failures - ever bit as bad as the
problems Ford or GM had and the response was at least as draconian.
Claims that "Toyota can/will fix it" are just idle hopes. Maybe they
will, or maybe they will say the problem is all your fault.
At least in the case of GM products, it is often the dealer, not GM
that is the stumbling block to having a problem farily resolved. I
suppose this is GM fault, except state franchise laws being what they
are, GM often has very little leverage when it comes to making dealers
more responsive.
Ed
Wayne
"C. E. White" <cewh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:hfrddf$ge1$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
had several GM vehicles that all were like lean and hungry animals that
tried to eat me out of house and home. My only Toyota was a Lexus RX-300
that went 11 years with routine tire/brake/dealer maintenance, and the ONLY
failure in the car was a burned out lamp on the dash that indicates that the
shift is set to "Drive". Just bought a new car....GM was not considered.
Steve Austin
engine management systems are a class above Toyota's.
Ed White
> "C. E. White" <cewhi...@mindspring.com> wrote in messagenews:hfrddf$ge1$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Wayne" <mygarbage...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
You when you get a Toyota clunker (and they make them all the time)
and Toyota tells you the car is perfect and all the problems are your
fault, what will you do then?
Ed
Desertphile
<ce.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You when you get a Toyota clunker (and they make them all the time)
> and Toyota tells you the car is perfect and all the problems are your
> fault, what will you do then?
If that ever happens, we'll be sure to let you know.
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
hls
"C. E. White" <cewh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:hfrddf$ge1$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> news:hfr7c9$rat$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>> LOL...I assume that like me, you finally saw the light and went Toyota.
>> If a GM stalls, and a Toyota stalls, I have much more confidence that
>> Toyota can/will fix it.
>
> This is exactly the sort of claim that drives me crazy.
***
I find that the mechanic who works on the car is a very important part of
this problem. Neither a GM or a Toyota should stall if in good working
order, except under special conditions.
Some of the dealership and independent mechanics here are pretty poorly
trained, but I will say that there are some who are excellent - masters at
what they do. The attitude of some shops seems to be "rush it out the
door and make room for another", rather that "let's fix this tough dog
for once and for all".
Every manufacturer will have some problem runs from time to time. There
are too many links in the supply chain to total avoid it.
But when it happens, people remember how they are treated, and what
effort the shop make to work with them to solve the problem.
My $0.02
hls
> Maybe its a SoCal thing.
> HTH
> Ben
It is a quality thing. Any dealership should strive toward quality in what
they do.
Some achieve it, some just pimp a brand.