`red-lining

[micky]

Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving the
wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for
example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went briefly
to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 and
even longer at 4500.

[Paul in Houston TX]

I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a piston rod
destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who installed a
used engine and ended up with a nice car.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in Houston

So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?

Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would think you
came close to the redline even less time than I have!!

This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000 miles on
it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but regardless,
I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than 3rd gear
and rely on the brakes for anything more.

[Bob F]

A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached his
lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to replace
than engine and clutch.

[Jacob Jones]

Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes overheat
and you can't stop.

[Rod Speed]

micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote

> Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving the
> wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

Undesirable in both scenarios.

> I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for
> example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went briefly
> to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 and
> even longer at 4500.

The trick is to downshift before the speed is high enough to get it to
redline.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:59:48 +1100, Jacob Jones, better known as
cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rodent Speed:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID: <g4ihla...@mid.individual.net>

[Peeler]

On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 08:01:52 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

MrTu...@down.the.farm about senile Rodent Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID: <ps10v9$uo2$1...@gioia.aioe.org>

[Ed Pawlowski]

Smart drivers know when engine braking is needed and when not. Depends
on conditions but it is not good practice to do all the time.

[The Real Bev]

On 03/03/2022 12:49 PM, Bob F wrote:

> A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached his
> lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to replace
> than engine and clutch.

Exactly.

--
Cheers, Bev
"A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person
or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even
possibly incurring losses." -- C.M.Cipolla

[Bob F]

>> lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a lot cheaper to replace

>> than engine and clutch.
>
> Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
> overheat and you can't stop.

He was right. Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your
engine. That should not be general practice if you care about your
vehicle. If your brakes fail on a steep hill, OK. But doing that rather
than keeping your speed below the over-rev point going down hills is
just stupid. Use your brakes for exiting the freeway, definitely better
than over-reving.

[The Real Bev]

If that's happening you DESERVE to crash.

Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- did my
brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned.

[Jacob Jones]

Micky isn't doing it all the time and it does no hard to
do it all the time and does see less wear on the brakes.

[Jacob Jones]

No he was not when you change down before there will be any red lining.

> Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your engine.

But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.

> That should not be general practice if you care about your vehicle.

That's wrong too. Doing it properly does produce less brake wear.

> If your brakes fail on a steep hill, OK. But doing that rather than
> keeping your speed below the over-rev point going down hills is just
> stupid. Use your brakes for exiting the freeway, definitely better than
> over-reving.

But perfectly possible to not over rev in that situation.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:44:50 +1100, Jacob Jones, better known as

cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That’s because so much piss and shite emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a Wanker."
Message-ID: <gm2h57...@mid.individual.net>

[Jacob Jones]

On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:38:21 +1100, The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Which is presumably why micky changed down. All he needs to do
is chang down earlier, before the steep drop, so it doesn't red line.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:53:35 +1100, "Jacob Jones"

I've heard that disk brakes don't overheat, and I think this Citroen has
4-wheel disks.

>
>Which is presumably why micky changed down.

No, it was so that I'd use mostly the engine and use the brakes much
less and have them in reserve if... if a child ran out in front of the
car, for example, or a car pulled in front of me, or whatever.

I had used the brakes so little at that point there was chance of
overheating even drum brakes.

> All he needs to do
>is chang down earlier, before the steep drop, so it doesn't red line.

That would have been next to impossible. Thhe hills show up quickly
and unexpectedly.

[AMuzi]

+1
My engine builder says that too.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Peeler]

On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:51:00 +1100, Jacob Jones, better known as

cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"Shit you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID: <ogoa38$pul$1...@news.mixmin.net>

[Peeler]

On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:53:35 +1100, Jacob Jones, better known as

cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Retirednoguilt addressing trolling senile Rodent Speed:
"Why don't you take your own advice and ultra isolate yourself from this
group? Obviously you have nothing but contempt and disregard for
everyone else's comments and opinions. You shouldn't waste another
second of your precious time trying to educate us. Just ultra isolate,
avoid this group as if it might infect you, and find another Usenet group.
MID: <spff82$i0d$1...@dont-email.me>

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 3/3/2022 5:51 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached
>>>> his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a lot cheaper to
>>>> replace than engine and clutch.
>>>  Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
>>> overheat and you can't stop.
>
>> He was right.
>
> No he was not when you change down before there will be any red lining.
>
>> Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your  engine.
>
> But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.

More rpm = more wear. Can't change the laws of physics and friction.

>
>> That should not be general practice if you care about your  vehicle.
>
> That's wrong too. Doing it properly does produce less brake wear.

But at the cost of engine wear. I don't know the $$ figure but there is
one. Brakes are pretty cheap though.

[Bob F]

And tranny clutches are not.

[Jacob Jones]

Thats wrong.

> and I think this Citroen has 4-wheel disks.

Yes it does.

>> Which is presumably why micky changed down.

> No, it was so that I'd use mostly the engine and use the brakes much
> less and have them in reserve if... if a child ran out in front of the
> car, for example, or a car pulled in front of me, or whatever.

That's what I meant. And with a car you are not familiar with
it makes sense to play safe.

> I had used the brakes so little at that point there was chance of
> overheating even drum brakes.
>
>> All he needs to do
>> is chang down earlier, before the steep drop, so it doesn't red line.
>
> That would have been next to impossible.

No it isn't.

> Thhe hills show up quickly and unexpectedly.

You ALWAYS come over the crest and can see what is in front of you.

[Snag]

Downshift as you brake to so engine RPM matches your speed . I never
engine brake over 2/3 of redline .
--
Snag
My rights don't end
where your fear begins .

[Jacob Jones]

On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 10:36:46 +1100, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:

> On 3/3/2022 5:51 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
>> On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached
>>>>> his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a lot cheaper to
>>>>> replace than engine and clutch.
>>>> Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
>>>> overheat and you can't stop.
>>
>>> He was right.

>> No he was not when you change down before there will be any red lining.

>>> Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your engine.
>> But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.

> More rpm = more wear.

Mindlessly simplistic. In the real world, engines last longer
doing lots of long trips rather than short ones around town.

And the reality is that modern car engines hardly
ever need replacing due to wear anymore.

> Can't change the laws of physics and friction.

Or those like you not understanding how engines work.

>>> That should not be general practice if you care about your vehicle.
>> That's wrong too. Doing it properly does produce less brake wear.

> But at the cost of engine wear. I don't know the $$ figure but there is
> one. Brakes are pretty cheap though.

The reality is that hardly anyone needs a new engine
due to wear and almost everyone needs new brake
pads and sometimes discs too due to wear.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article <op.1iha9...@pvr2.lan>, Jacob Jones <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>You ALWAYS come over the crest and can see what is in front of you.

Unfortunately sometimes it is a giant truck passing another vehicle and
headed straight for you in your lane.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Bob F]

On 3/3/2022 6:28 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article <op.1iha9...@pvr2.lan>, Jacob Jones <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> You ALWAYS come over the crest and can see what is in front of you.
>
> Unfortunately sometimes it is a giant truck passing another vehicle and
> headed straight for you in your lane.
> --scott

Nothing like those giant trucks racing at high speed up long steep hills.

LOL!

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 3/3/2022 8:41 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 10:36:46 +1100, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
>
>> On 3/3/2022 5:51 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
>>> On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached
>>>>>> his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a lot cheaper to
>>>>>> replace than engine and clutch.
>>>>>  Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
>>>>> overheat and you can't stop.
>>>
>>>> He was right.
>
>>>  No he was not when you change down before there will be any red lining.
>
>>>> Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your  engine.
>>>  But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.
>
>> More rpm = more wear.
>
> Mindlessly simplistic. In the real world, engines last longer
> doing lots of long trips rather than short ones around town.
>
> And the reality is that modern car engines hardly
> ever need replacing due to wear anymore.
>
>> Can't change the laws of physics and friction.
>
> Or those like you not understanding how engines work.

The one likely to downshift and cause high rpms are more likely to wear
an engine faster. There are still rebuilders out there as there is a
need. Certainly not like years ago, but I bet more than you think.

Having done a couple of complete rebuilds, I have a pretty good idea how
they work. My brother had 26 cars so we did a lot of work on them.

[Jim Joyce]

On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:49:46 -0800, Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached his
>lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to replace
>than engine and clutch.

The first vehicles I learned to drive in the early 1960's were all stick
shift, and I was taught the rule listed above. I've never forgotten it.
It was true then and it's true now.

I still remember one summer when my friend and I (I was 12, he was 13)
got hired to drive trucks and other implements on a neighboring farm,
and my friend used to slip the clutch on a regular basis, prompting the
farmer to yell, "The clutch has two positions! In or out! Stop slipping
the damned clutch!" He never had to tell me that. :-)

[Michael Trew]

On 3/3/2022 13:47, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
> micky wrote:
>> Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving the
>> wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?
>>
>> I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for
>> example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went briefly
>> to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 and
>> even longer at 4500.

It doesn't matter; it still involves too high of an RPM, which can cause
engine damage.

I try not to habitually downshift for engine braking, but that depends
on the car. If a car has a weak or failing braking system, I'm more
likely to downshift, but not anywhere near where the red line would be.
Weak clutch, and you'd better be more generous with the brakes.

[Michael Trew]

Plenty of rebuild shops; many folks, especially near me, drive older
cars. It's still common to see 90's cars driving around in my town.
About all of my cars are older than me. Of course, some of those
rebuild shops also do custom work, racing, and work for restoring
classic cars.

[Michael Trew]

That's a pretty rare occurrence these days with disc brakes; many cars
now have rear disc brakes also. When I first drove a car (recently)
with 4 wheel manual drum brakes, I quickly learned why people
(especially older drives) teach you to pulse the brakes on steep hills.

When you overheat those old drum brakes, which isn't hard to do, you
might not be able to stop... especially if they get hot enough to
vapor-lock the brake fluid near the wheels. When I drive that 60's car
now, on a steep couple mile hill near my house, I put the 3 speed auto
into second gear, rev-matching a bit before it downshifts. Fortunately,
it holds a steady 40 MPH in 2nd gear, and I don't have to tap the brakes
once on that hill.

[Xeno]

So does driving that saves wear and tear on both brakes and clutch. If a
driver has a need to brake hard, either way, maybe it's time to re-learn
how to drive.

>
>> If your brakes fail on a steep hill, OK. But doing that rather than
>> keeping your speed below the over-rev point going down hills is just
>> stupid. Use your brakes for exiting the freeway, definitely better
>> than over-reving.
>
> But perfectly possible to not over rev in that situation.

--
Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

[Xeno]

*All* brakes are energy converters hence all brakes can potentially
overheat. Brakes, of any type, can only shed heat at a set rate. Exceed
the rate of heat input that the brakes can accommodate and you will
overheat any kind of brake system.

>>
>> Which is presumably why micky changed down.
>
> No, it was so that I'd use mostly the engine and use the brakes much
> less and have them in reserve if... if a child ran out in front of the
> car, for example, or a car pulled in front of me, or whatever.

Change your driving habits!

>
> I had used the brakes so little at that point there was chance of
> overheating even drum brakes.

I repeat, change your driving habits.

>
>> All he needs to do
>> is chang down earlier, before the steep drop, so it doesn't red line.
>
> That would have been next to impossible. Thhe hills show up quickly
> and unexpectedly.

Once again, change your driving habits. Better still, go take a
defensive driving course. Not for your benefit but the benefit of others
around you.

[The Real Bev]

On 03/03/2022 09:51 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
> On 3/3/2022 17:38, The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>> Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- did my
>> brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned.
>
> That's a pretty rare occurrence these days with disc brakes; many cars
> now have rear disc brakes also. When I first drove a car (recently)
> with 4 wheel manual drum brakes, I quickly learned why people
> (especially older drives) teach you to pulse the brakes on steep hills.

1950 Olds 88. Did they even have disks then? I really should have
known better, but I'd never driven a mountain road before. I was lucky.

Later on I drove a car with brake problems. I still pulse the brakes,
mainly to make sure they still work before I NEED to use them. Some
habits just don't die.

[Jacob Jones]

On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 15:44:00 +1100, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:

> On 3/3/2022 8:41 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
>> On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 10:36:46 +1100, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/3/2022 5:51 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached
>>>>>>> his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a lot cheaper to
>>>>>>> replace than engine and clutch.
>>>>>> Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
>>>>>> overheat and you can't stop.
>>>>
>>>>> He was right.
>>
>>>> No he was not when you change down before there will be any red
>>>> lining.
>>
>>>>> Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your engine.
>>>> But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.
>>
>>> More rpm = more wear.
>> Mindlessly simplistic. In the real world, engines last longer
>> doing lots of long trips rather than short ones around town.
>> And the reality is that modern car engines hardly
>> ever need replacing due to wear anymore.
>>
>>> Can't change the laws of physics and friction.

>> Or those like you not understanding how engines work.

> The one likely to downshift and cause highrpms are more likely to wear
> an engine faster.

Nice theory. Pity about how few get their engine rebuilt anymore,

> There are still rebuilders out there as there is a need.

Pity that you don't know that it is those who downshift.

> Certainly not like years ago, but I bet more than you think.

I know that it isn't.

> Having done a couple of complete rebuilds, I have a pretty good idea how
> they work. My brother had 26 cars so we did a lot of work on them.

But clearly do not have a clue about whether those who downshift
get their engines rebuilt more than those who do not.

[Jacob Jones]

On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 15:54:28 +1100, Jim Joyce <no...@none.invalid> wrote:

> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:49:46 -0800, Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I approached his
>> lot, and immediately told me that breaks were a lot cheaper to replace
>> than engine and clutch.

> The first vehicles I learned to drive in the early 1960's were all stick
> shift, and I was taught the rule listed above.

Just because some fool claims something...

> I've never forgotten it.

Do you still wear button up boots ?

> It was true then and it's true now.

Bullshit it is. Hardly anyone needs to bet their engine rebuilt anymore.

> I still remember one summer when my friend and I (I was 12, he was 13)
> got hired to drive trucks and other implements on a neighboring farm,
> and my friend used to slip the clutch on a regular basis, prompting the
> farmer to yell, "The clutch has two positions! In or out! Stop slipping
> the damned clutch!" He never had to tell me that. :-)

Irrelevant to what is being discussed.

[Jacob Jones]

We aren't talking about braking hard, we are talking how to descend steep
hills.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 12:41:51 +1100, Jacob Jones, better known as

cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID: <g4t0jt...@mid.individual.net>

[Peeler]

On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 10:52:25 +1100, Jacob Jones, better known as

cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Tim+ about trolling Rodent Speed:
He is by far the most persistent troll who seems to be able to get under the
skin of folk who really should know better. Since when did arguing with a
troll ever achieve anything (beyond giving the troll pleasure)?
MID: <1421057667.659518815.743...@news.individual.net>

[Peeler]

On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 19:48:19 +1100, Jacob Jones, better known as

cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rodent Speed:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID: <g4ihla...@mid.individual.net>

[Peeler]

On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 19:43:02 +1100, Jacob Jones, better known as

cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

David Plowman about senile Rodent Speed's trolling:
"Wodney is doing a lot of morphing these days. Must be even more desperate
than usual for attention."
MID: <59a60da...@davenoise.co.uk>

[Scott Lurndal]

I used engine braking far more than the brakes on my 2000 Ford Ranger.
150,000 miles on the clutch, two sets of tires and the only engine
related problem was a failed alternator at about 67k miles. Best
truck I ever had (transfered to brother-in-law and crushed by a
tree during a derecho a couple years later, sadly).

Used properly, and with a sane gear ratio, it works fine. My
2016 Colorado (the only manual still being sold at the time) gear ratios
aren't as good, and downshifting into second will rev higher
than I like, but there are ways to ameliorate that as well.

[Pierre Ghazarian]

Hi

On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 19:39:32 +0100,

micky wrote:
>
> Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is driving the
> wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?

I’d say it’s the same or worse.

> I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and today, for
> example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine went briefly
> to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at 5000 and
> even longer at 4500.

Engine braking is useful, however over-reving by abusing it, as noted
by others, is dangerous for your engine and transmission. It’s called
money-shifting for a reason.

Regards,
--
P

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 4 Mar 2022 17:26:57 +1100, Xeno

You and Jacob can come with me the next time I make this trip, maybe in
a few days, and then you'll have enough facts to maybe be in a position
to tell me stuff like this.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 00:45:37 -0500, Michael Trew

The rentacar companies ought to give include a little primer on driving
when they give you the car. It wouldn't only have to be 5 or 10
sentence. The roads and the laws are a little different from the US.

[Jacob Jones]

We don't need to. There are no steep descents that don't have
a warning sign so you can change down before descending.

[Peeler]

On Sat, 05 Mar 2022 08:25:06 +1100, Jacob Jones, better known as

[Michael Trew]

On 3/4/2022 1:57, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 03/03/2022 09:51 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>> On 3/3/2022 17:38, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>
>>> Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- did my
>>> brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned.
>>
>> That's a pretty rare occurrence these days with disc brakes; many cars
>> now have rear disc brakes also. When I first drove a car (recently)
>> with 4 wheel manual drum brakes, I quickly learned why people
>> (especially older drives) teach you to pulse the brakes on steep hills.
>
> 1950 Olds 88. Did they even have disks then? I really should have known
> better, but I'd never driven a mountain road before. I was lucky.

I don't think disc brakes were even an option until the late 60's, but
perhaps someone else could be more certain.

Out of curiosity, did your Olds have power or manual brakes? I owned a
'56 Olds 88 with power brakes, but I never drove it (except onto/off of
a trailer); the booster was gone, as well as other parts. Hopefully the
next guy restored it as the car deserved. It had manual steering.

Most of my older cars still have manual brakes. I currently have a '65
Ford Galaxie with manual drum brakes around. I also have a '75 Dodge
Dart with manual brakes, but it has manual discs in the front. The
Galaxie has manual steering, and it's a bear to parallel park.

> Later on I drove a car with brake problems. I still pulse the brakes,
> mainly to make sure they still work before I NEED to use them. Some
> habits just don't die.

I do the same thing, even in newer cars. That's a good habit to have,
either way.

[Michael Trew]

From which country? I live in the US, but all of my cars are old beaters.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 05 Mar 2022 08:25:06 +1100, "Jacob Jones"

Do you mean a literal sign, with writing on it?

Either way, you don't know the world as well as you think you do.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 19:08:56 -0500, Michael Trew

<michae...@att.net> wrote:

>On 3/4/2022 1:57, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 03/03/2022 09:51 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>> On 3/3/2022 17:38, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- did my
>>>> brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned.
>>>
>>> That's a pretty rare occurrence these days with disc brakes; many cars
>>> now have rear disc brakes also. When I first drove a car (recently)
>>> with 4 wheel manual drum brakes, I quickly learned why people
>>> (especially older drives) teach you to pulse the brakes on steep hills.
>>
>> 1950 Olds 88. Did they even have disks then? I really should have known
>> better, but I'd never driven a mountain road before. I was lucky.
>
>I don't think disc brakes were even an option until the late 60's, but
>perhaps someone else could be more certain.
>
>Out of curiosity, did your Olds have power or manual brakes? I owned a

I had a '50 Olds also. I don't think they came with power brakes. But
it did stop okay. They did have the possibility of Back-up lights. I
found some at a junk yard and installed them. And they did have the
possibility of an automatic headlight dimmer, based on the lights from
the on-coming car. I only read about that.

The new or nearly new features of the '50 were a high-compression (8.5
to 1, iirc) production v-8 engine, and an automatic transmission.

>'56 Olds 88 with power brakes, but I never drove it (except onto/off of
>a trailer); the booster was gone, as well as other parts. Hopefully the
>next guy restored it as the car deserved. It had manual steering.
>
>Most of my older cars still have manual brakes. I currently have a '65

This new Citroen has brakes so good, I've knocked the phone once and
the laptop twic off the front seat. I'm glad I put a solid state drive
in. Even when stopped, I can imagine one could damage a mechanical
drive. I think I've gotten used to the brakes and don't do that sort
of thing anymore.

[Jacob Jones]

In quite a bit of europe, more likely a graphic because they have
so many languages.

> Either way, you don't know the world as well as you think you do.

Easy to google steep descent signs.

[Peeler]

On Sun, 06 Mar 2022 10:21:19 +1100, Jacob Jones, better known as

[Scott Dorsey]

In article <op.1iky5...@pvr2.lan>, Jacob Jones <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Do you mean a literal sign, with writing on it?
>
>In quite a bit of europe, more likely a graphic because they have
>so many languages.
>
>> Either way, you don't know the world as well as you think you do.
>
>Easy to google steep descent signs.

In the US you can tell from the red fluid all over the road and the pieces
of bell housings and torque converters scattered along the shoulder.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Jacob Jones]

On Sun, 06 Mar 2022 11:32:44 +1100, Scott Dorsey <klu...@panix.com> wrote:

> In article <op.1iky5...@pvr2.lan>, Jacob Jones <jk...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>> Do you mean a literal sign, with writing on it?
>>
>> In quite a bit of europe, more likely a graphic because they have
>> so many languages.
>>
>>> Either way, you don't know the world as well as you think you do.
>>
>> Easy to google steep descent signs.
>
> In the US you can tell from the red fluid all over the road and the
> pieces
> of bell housings and torque converters scattered along the shoulder.

But he is currently in europe.

[Scott Dorsey]

He went all the way to Europe just so he could destroy a Citroen? Sheesh.

[Jacob Jones]

No, he went there for other reasons and hasn't yet managed to destroy it,

> Sheesh.

[The Real Bev]

On 03/05/2022 02:20 PM, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Mar 2022 19:08:56 -0500, Michael Trew
> <michae...@att.net> wrote:
>>On 3/4/2022 1:57, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> On 03/03/2022 09:51 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>>> On 3/3/2022 17:38, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Only once -- the very first time I drove down a mountain road -- did my
>>>>> brakes get too hot to stop as quickly as I wanted. Lesson learned.
>>>>
>>>> That's a pretty rare occurrence these days with disc brakes; many cars
>>>> now have rear disc brakes also. When I first drove a car (recently)
>>>> with 4 wheel manual drum brakes, I quickly learned why people
>>>> (especially older drives) teach you to pulse the brakes on steep hills.
>>>
>>> 1950 Olds 88. Did they even have disks then? I really should have known
>>> better, but I'd never driven a mountain road before. I was lucky.
>>
>>I don't think disc brakes were even an option until the late 60's, but
>>perhaps someone else could be more certain.
>>
>>Out of curiosity, did your Olds have power or manual brakes? I owned a
>
> I had a '50 Olds also. I don't think they came with power brakes. But
> it did stop okay. They did have the possibility of Back-up lights. I
> found some at a junk yard and installed them. And they did have the
> possibility of an automatic headlight dimmer, based on the lights from
> the on-coming car. I only read about that.

Mine certainly had no power brakes. Drums all the way around. No power
steering either. 8-cylinder engine which I once got up to 100 mph on
the long easy downhill pointing at Huntington (I think) Beach. It felt
squirrelly, as I recall, and I backed off immediately. (100 mph in a
Corolla is perfectly fine.) The car ultimately developed a lot of
problems which I had workarounds for, but I ultimately sold it to a
"fine Cherman VW mechanic" who was sure he could fix it. A friend saw
it at the local wrecking yard a few weeks later.

My grandma never learned to drive, but she scrubbed the whitewalls until
they looked brand new. She also cleaned the chrome with steel wool.
You guys remember chrome, right? Back when bumpers didn't need to have
their broken plastic covers replaced at $hundreds/each.

> The new or nearly new features of the '50 were a high-compression (8.5
> to 1, iirc) production v-8 engine, and an automatic transmission.

I learned to drive stick on a friend's 1938 (maybe) Ford. Looked like a
Brit taxicab. Later on I had my own 50 Chevy with an add-on floor stick
shift, apparently installed and driven by a chimp. That's the one whose
freeze plugs I replaced. Sold that one to a sailor on leave for the $50
I paid for it.

>>> Later on I drove a car with brake problems. I still pulse the brakes,
>>> mainly to make sure they still work before I NEED to use them. Some
>>> habits just don't die.
>>
>>I do the same thing, even in newer cars. That's a good habit to have,
>>either way.

At the very least it's a warning in advance of need to the guy behind you.


--
Cheers, Bev
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your
informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
- Harlan Ellison

[Peeler]

On Sun, 06 Mar 2022 12:08:30 +1100, Jacob Jones, better known as

cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
The Natural Philosopher about senile Rodent:
"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole."
Message-ID: <pu07vj$s5$2...@dont-email.me>

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 06 Mar 2022 10:21:19 +1100, "Jacob Jones"

There were no signs. We don't need no stinkin' signs, or maybe we do
but we don't have them where I go.

[Bob F]

And you are apparently incapable of looking at the hill as you crest
down it and determining at that moment that you need to downshift then
to avoid going down the hill too fast, or that you need to slow down a
bit to get to an even lower gear to maintain speed safely.

[Jacob Jones]

So you didn't need to change down. The brakes would have been fine.

But no harm in changing down at the crest if you want to, particularly
with a car you aren't familiar with and don't know how likely it is for
the brakes to overheat.

[Peeler]

On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 05:43:09 +1100, Jacob Jones, better known as

cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

FredXX to Rodent Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shipped the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID: <plbf76$gfl$1...@dont-email.me>

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 5 Mar 2022 21:51:10 -0800, The Real Bev

I'm pretty sure I've told this before, but what the heck. I got mine
up to 110 one time, and it was flat. No help from downhill. It was
half-way across Michigan between Detroit and Gary Indiana.

>squirrelly, as I recall, and I backed off immediately. (100 mph in a

It felt fine but I figure the speedometer went up to 110 so that's all I
could do. When I got back to Chicago, my friend Rich Loft, who died of
leukemia a few years later when he was in his 20's, said "Did you hide
it?" I didn't know about that, but I guess I should have gone beyond
the numbers and the needle might have gone behind the faceplate, or if
it couldn't do that, I still could have gone higher than the higest
number.

I had two r iders, it was just after dawn, no other traffic to hit, but
I could have had a blowout and I had no business driving so fast with
riders, esppecially when hey were sleeping and couldn't consent.

When I got back to Chicaog, the first thing I did was open my hood to
admire the engine, and.... there were bubbles coming out from under one
cylinder head. Darn, I thouught, and I quickly shut the hood and didn't
open it again for a couple weeks. By then the bubbling had stopped.

Later I got a compression tester and like they say, two adjacent
cylinders had low compression. But the car ran fine. And I think it
leaked at cranking speed, but when running at 20 to 85 mph, it also
leaked but not fast enough to make a difference in how it ran.

I remember now, that even after the bubbles, I drove from Chicago to
Allentown Pa. and back at 85mph much of the way.

The car was like a tank, Undeneath the frame was a rectangle with an
X inside of it.

One time at work at a construction site, when it was time for lunch, I
thought I'd drive over a hill of loose dirt somone had made. I gave it
a running start but I didn't get over the hill. The car stopped and
when I got out, all 4 wheels were off the gound. so... it wouldn't
move. I had to get the guy with the cherry picker to take the car off
the hill and put it bak on the ground. But because of that great
frame, there was no damage. 1

>Corolla is perfectly fine.) The car ultimately developed a lot of
>problems which I had workarounds for, but I ultimately sold it to a
>"fine Cherman VW mechanic" who was sure he could fix it. A friend saw
>it at the local wrecking yard a few weeks later.

Mine still worked fine, but my brother had gone to Viet Nam and lent,
then gave me his '65 Catalina convertiable. And as much as I like the
Olds, I like the Pontiac better. So I gave or sold it for $50 to a guy
I'd met because he had a car like mine. He had two, and after he had
mine, he had 3. I hated to promote his nerdish hobby (details on
request), but it needed a home.

**He bought a Ford LTD? convertibld when he got back from Nam (in one
piece).

>My grandma never learned to drive, but she scrubbed the whitewalls until
>they looked brand new. She also cleaned the chrome with steel wool.
>You guys remember chrome, right? Back when bumpers didn't need to have
>their broken plastic covers replaced at $hundreds/each.

I wish I had a gramma like that. I remember chrome bumpers. You could
sit on them.

>> The new or nearly new features of the '50 were a high-compression (8.5
>> to 1, iirc) production v-8 engine, and an automatic transmission.
>
>I learned to drive stick on a friend's 1938 (maybe) Ford. Looked like a
>Brit taxicab. Later on I had my own 50 Chevy with an add-on floor stick
>shift, apparently installed and driven by a chimp. That's the one whose
>freeze plugs I replaced. Sold that one to a sailor on leave for the $50
>I paid for it.

I had read how to drive a stick and that was most of what I needed t o
know. Then 4 of us were going on a trip and the owner of the 60n?
Corvair wanted to leave earlier than 3 of us so he took two of u s out
for an hour and taught us to drive a stick. From Chicago to Pittsburgh
you only have to shift 4 or 5 cycles up and down, and I did the driving.

We went to Pittsburgh, NYC (where we watchd the '68 Deocratic Convention
on TV, then Boston to see Doug's girlfriend, then some small city in NYS
where my cousin was being married, the Rochestor and Niagara Falls, back
to Pittsburgh and Chicago. There had been a bus and taxi strike in
Chicago and I'd volunteered to use my car to drive delegates from the
hotels to the Stockyardss and back, and I'm sorry I didn't get to do
that, but the trip seemed more important. (The Republicans had the
loan of new cars, but the dems were depending on volunteers like me, but
more reliable than me.

>>>> Later on I drove a car with brake problems. I still pulse the brakes,
>>>> mainly to make sure they still work before I NEED to use them. Some
>>>> habits just don't die.
>>>
>>>I do the same thing, even in newer cars. That's a good habit to have,
>>>either way.
>
>At the very least it's a warning in advance of need to the guy behind you.

True.

[Xeno]

On 4/3/2022 7:48 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 17:19:58 +1100, Xeno <xeno...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>> On 4/3/2022 9:51 am, Jacob Jones wrote:
>>> On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>>> his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a lot cheaper to

>>>>>> replace than engine and clutch.
>>>>>  Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
>>>>> overheat and you can't stop.
>>>

>>>> He was right.
>>>  No he was not when you change down before there will be any red lining.
>>>
>>>> Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your  engine.
>>>  But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.
>>>

>>>> That should not be general practice if you care about your  vehicle.
>>>  That's wrong too. Doing it properly does produce less brake wear.
>>
>> So does driving that saves wear and tear on both brakes and clutch. If
>> a driver has a need to brake hard, either way, maybe it's time to
>> re-learn how to drive.
>
> We aren't talking about braking hard, we are talking how to descend
> steep hills.

No, *we* are talking about using engine braking as opposed to using the
service brakes. You shouldn't be using the engine to slow down on a
hill, that's what the service brakes are for. What you can, and should,
do is use engine braking to maintain a steady speed down a steep hill.
That is the precise scenario where your service brakes can overheat and
that is to be avoided at all costs if brake fade is to be avoided. If
needed, should the vehicle still speed up, an occasional application of
the service brakes is advised but no more than is required to maintain a
steady speed. That way you neither damage your engine or needlessly
overheat the service brakes.
>
>>>> If your brakes fail on a steep hill, OK. But doing that rather than
>>>> keeping your speed below the over-rev point going down hills is just
>>>> stupid. Use your brakes for exiting the freeway, definitely better
>>>> than over-reving.
>>>  But perfectly possible to not over rev in that situation.
>>


--
Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

[Jacob Jones]

Fraid so.

> *we* are talking about using engine braking as opposed to using the
> service brakes. You shouldn't be using the engine to slow down on a
> hill, that's what the service brakes are for.

Wrong with a long steep descent.

> What you can, and should, do is use engine brakingto maintain a steady

> speed down a steep hill.

Doesn't have to be a steady speed when the slope changes a lot.

> That is the precise scenario where your service brakes can overheat

What I said long ago.

> and that is to be avoided at all costs if brake fade is to be avoided.

Whether you get brake faded depends on how long the steep descent goes for.

> If needed, should the vehicle still speed up, an occasional application
> of the service brakes is advised but no more than is required to
> maintain a steady speed.

No need for a steady speed. Fine if it varies for hairpin bends etc.

> That way you neither damage your engine

You don't need a steady speed to avoid damaging the engine,
just don't exceed the redline.

> or needlessly overheat the service brakes.

What I said long ago.

[Michael Trew]

The vehicles that I have with chrome bumpers have rust scattered on
parts of the chrome. I'll have to see if steel wool cleans that up.

[Michael Trew]

On 3/6/2022 15:50, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 5 Mar 2022 21:51:10 -0800, The Real Bev
> <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The car ultimately developed a lot of
>> problems which I had workarounds for, but I ultimately sold it to a
>> "fine Cherman VW mechanic" who was sure he could fix it. A friend saw
>> it at the local wrecking yard a few weeks later.
>
> Mine still worked fine, but my brother had gone to Viet Nam and lent,
> then gave me his '65 Catalina convertiable. And as much as I like the
> Olds, I like the Pontiac better. So I gave or sold it for $50 to a guy
> I'd met because he had a car like mine. He had two, and after he had
> mine, he had 3. I hated to promote his nerdish hobby (details on
> request), but it needed a home.

OK, I'm curious about the "nerdish hobby" now.

[Xeno]

You slow down *before* you begin your descent. Once into the descent at
an *appropriate speed*, you only use the service brakes to maintain the
rate of descent, the engine braking taking care of the rest. It's
obvious you have never driven trucks.

>
>> What you can, and should,  do is use engine  brakingto maintain a
>> steady speed down a steep hill.
>
> Doesn't have to be a steady speed when the slope changes a lot.

Again, that's when you *briefly* apply the service brakes.

>
>> That is the precise scenario where your service brakes can overheat
>
> What I said long ago.
>
>> and  that is to be avoided at all costs if brake fade is to be avoided.
>
> Whether you get brake faded depends on how long the steep descent goes for.

Whether you get brake fade depends on your approach to the descent; how
you manage your speed, both when entering and during the descent.

>
>> If  needed, should the vehicle still speed up, an occasional
>> application of the service brakes is advised but no more than is
>> required to maintain a steady speed.
>
> No need for a steady speed. Fine if it varies for hairpin bends etc.

Again, you appear never to have driven trucks or, for that matter, any
heavy vehicle.

>
>> That way you neither damage your engine
>
> You don't need a steady speed to avoid damaging the engine,
> just don't exceed the redline.
>
>> or needlessly  overheat the service brakes.
>
> What I said long ago.
>
>>>>>> If your brakes fail on a steep hill, OK. But doing that rather
>>>>>> than keeping your speed below the over-rev point going down hills
>>>>>> is just stupid. Use your brakes for exiting the freeway,
>>>>>> definitely better than over-reving.
>
>>>>>  But perfectly possible to not over rev in that situation.

[Jacob Jones]

What I said long ago.

> Once into the descent at an *appropriate speed*, you only use the
> service brakes to maintain the rate of descent, the engine braking
> taking care of the rest.

You have that backwards.

> It's obvious you have never driven trucks.

There you go again, face down in the mud, as always.

And we aren't discussing trucks, we are discussing a medium sized SUV.

>>> What you can, and should, do is use engine brakingto maintain a
>>> steady speed down a steep hill.

>> Doesn't have to be a steady speed when the slope changes a lot.

> Again, that's when you *briefly* apply the service brakes.

Or change down initially and don't need the brakes if it is a long steep
descent.

>>> That is the precise scenario where your service brakes can overheat
>> What I said long ago.

>>> and that is to be avoided at all costs if brake fade is to be avoided.

>> Whether you get brake faded depends on how long the steep descent
>> goes for.

> Whether you get brake fade depends on your approach to the descent;how
> you manage your speed, both when entering and during the descent.

But you don't get brake fade with a modern car like that unless it is a
long steep descent.

>>> If needed, should the vehicle still speed up, an occasional
>>> application of the service brakes is advised but no more than is
>>> required to maintain a steady speed.

>> No need for a steady speed. Fine if it varies for hairpin bends etc.

> Again, you appear never to have driven trucks or,for that matter, any
> heavy vehicle.

Then you need new glasses bad and that is irrelevant to
your silly line about a constant speed. Only a fool like you
would maintain a constant speed in a truck or heavy vehicle,
at the speed it has to do the worst hairpin bend at and there
is no way to know what speed that will be in advance anyway.

[Xeno]

You don't appear to have it at all.

>
>> It's  obvious you have never driven trucks.
>
> There you go again, face down in the mud, as always.
>
> And we aren't discussing trucks, we are discussing a medium sized SUV.

Techniques are the same, just way more critical with a fully loaded truck.

>
>>>> What you can, and should,  do is use engine  brakingto maintain a
>>>> steady speed down a steep hill.
>
>>>  Doesn't have to be a steady speed when the slope changes a lot.
>
>> Again, that's when you *briefly* apply the service brakes.
>
> Or change down initially and don't need the brakes if it is a long steep
> descent.

You appear to be somewhat clueless.

>
>>>> That is the precise scenario where your service brakes can overheat
>>>  What I said long ago.
>
>>>> and  that is to be avoided at all costs if brake fade is to be avoided.
>
>>>  Whether you get brake faded depends on how long the steep descent
>>> goes  for.
>
>> Whether you get brake fade depends on your approach to the
>> descent;how  you manage your speed, both when entering and during the
>> descent.
>
> But you don't get brake fade with a modern car like that unless it is a
> long steep descent.

Only one thing I can say in response to that - BULLSHIT!

>
>>>> If  needed, should the vehicle still speed up, an occasional
>>>> application of the service brakes is advised but no more than is
>>>> required to maintain a steady speed.
>
>>>  No need for a steady speed. Fine if it varies for hairpin bends etc.
>
>> Again, you appear never to have driven trucks or,for that matter, any
>> heavy vehicle.
>
> Then you need new glasses bad and that is irrelevant to
> your silly line about a constant speed. Only a fool like you
> would maintain a constant speed in a truck or heavy vehicle,
> at the speed it has to do the worst hairpin bend at and there
> is no way to know what speed that will be in advance anyway.

You are just trying to confuse the situation.

>
>>>> That way you neither damage your engine
>
>>>  You don't need a steady speed to avoid damaging the engine,
>>> just don't exceed the redline.
>
>>>> or needlessly  overheat the service brakes.
>
>>>  What I said long ago.
>
>>>>>>>> If your brakes fail on a steep hill, OK. But doing that rather
>>>>>>>> than keeping your speed below the over-rev point going down
>>>>>>>> hills is just stupid. Use your brakes for exiting the freeway,
>>>>>>>> definitely better than over-reving.
>>>
>>>>>>>  But perfectly possible to not over rev in that situation.

[Peeler]

On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 16:07:20 +1100, Jacob Jones, better known as

[Jacob Jones]

You are pathetic.

>>> It's obvious you have never driven trucks.

>> There you go again, face down in the mud, as always.

>> And we aren't discussing trucks, we are discussing a medium sized SUV.

> Techniques are the same,

Nope.

> just way more critical with a fully loaded truck.

They aren't critical on a descent which isn't signed
as a steep descent with a modern medium SUV.

>>>>> What you can, and should, do is use engine brakingto maintain a
>>>>> steady speed down a steep hill.
>>
>>>> Doesn't have to be a steady speed when the slope changes a lot.
>>
>>> Again, that's when you *briefly* apply the service brakes.

>> Or change down initially and don't need the brakes if it is a long
>> steep descent.

> You appear to be somewhat clueless.

You don't have a fucking clue.

>>>>> That is the precise scenario where your service brakes can overheat

>>>> What I said long ago.

>>>>> and that is to be avoided at all costs if brake fade is to be
>>>>> avoided.
>>
>>>> Whether you get brake faded depends on how long the steep descent
>>>> goes for.
>>
>>> Whether you get brake fade depends on your approach to the
>>> descent;how you manage your speed, both when entering and during the
>>> descent.

>> But you don't get brake fade with a modern car like that unless it is
>> a long steep descent.

> Only one thing I can say in response to that - BULLSHIT!

You are pathetic.

>>>>> If needed, should the vehicle still speed up, an occasional
>>>>> application of the service brakes is advised but no more than is
>>>>> required to maintain a steady speed.

>>>> No need for a steady speed. Fine if it varies for hairpin bends etc.

>>> Again, you appear never to have driven trucks or,for that matter, any
>>> heavy vehicle.

>> Then you need new glasses bad and that is irrelevant to
>> your silly line about a constant speed. Only a fool like you
>> would maintain a constant speed in a truck or heavy vehicle,
>> at the speed it has to do the worst hairpin bend at and there
>> is no way to know what speed that will be in advance anyway.

> You are just trying to confuse the situation.

You have never had a fucking clue.

[Peeler]

On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 19:59:05 +1100, Jacob Jones, better known as

cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Tim+ about trolling Rodent Speed:
He is by far the most persistent troll who seems to be able to get under the
skin of folk who really should know better. Since when did arguing with a
troll ever achieve anything (beyond giving the troll pleasure)?
MID: <1421057667.659518815.743...@news.individual.net>

[AMuzi]

For surface discoloration use a chrome polish. Steel wool
will leave micro scratches and hence rust faster.

Where the chrome is broken or blistered, sand back to clean
metal, acid wash, primer and chrome spray paint (I assume
you don't want to have them stripped polished and re plated)

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Michael Trew]

Nah, not re-plated on an old beater. Both are common 4 door sedans from
the 60's/70's or beat up pick up trucks, original and worn, shot
suspension, etc. Could be restored, but an unlikely candidate, and I
don't have the money. It's just fun to drive around town. People
always honk and wave now when you roll down the road in a 60's car.

[Rod Speed]

Michael Trew <michae...@att.net> wrote
> AMuzi wrote
>> Michael Trew wrote

Doesn't happen here, but we aren't honkys.

[Peeler]

On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 19:10:54 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rodent Speed:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID: <g4ihla...@mid.individual.net>

[AMuzi]

You've got that right! and girls ♥ classic convertibles

[micky]

In rec.autos.tech, on Sun, 06 Mar 2022 23:02:27 -0500, Michael Trew

Sorry t his took so long, expecially since I offered detail. P&M

It was just having a two '50 Olds. He was 35 or almost 40 iirc and he
said he would drive around the U. of Chicago campus and impress the
girls, or he hoped he did. Sure, some were interested in an old car but
I don't think they were attracted to him because of his car.

I don't know where he actually lived but he owned a townhouse on the
west side of Chicago which I visited once. The first floor had a big
room, maybe living and dinning rooms with the wall removed, and it was
full of boxes of electronics parts and probably other stuff that he
bought at auctions, I think, There was little furniture, only these
boxes of stuff and he was so happy to give me some of it, anything I
could remotely use. He might have lived upstairs come to think of it
but he implied he didnt'.

He kept his extra car there, in the back, and now he had 3 '50 or '51
Olds, one of them a fastback.

[Xeno]

You are sounding remarkably like a recreation of Rod Speed