engine flush with diesel fuel?
Nomen Nescio
[this model engine lasts 300-400 thou if treated well]
Dropped the sump, and it was like vegimite. I cleaned that
but it is through the rest of the motor too. A friend said
put a litre of diesel in some cheap oil, run for 15 minutes,
that will wash a lot of crap out (throw away filter after
of course). Then searching a few forums, some bloke says
just use all diesel, no oil at all, for 15 minutes,
that will really be a good laxative.
I am way about this. Has anybody done this and not
ruined something?
Nate Nagel
I've done it, not with a new engine though, only an old sludge monster.
Don't run the engine under any load when doing this. I'd definitely
use one quart of either oil or ATF, don't run straight Diesel fuel.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
jim beam
when i was a kid, my dad tried this on one of his cars. it knocked the
rod bearings out in about 3 minutes.
instead, i suggest you use a modern detergent oil, and change it a bunch
of times. maybe this stuff?
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_Clean_5000.aspx
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
Nate Nagel
Probably what happened is it loosened a chunk of crap that plugged an
oil passage. A real risk with aggressive solvents (and kerosene really
isn't all *that* aggressive, but still.)
Over on BITOG, a lot of people have reported positive results with
AutoRX, which cleans the engine over a couple thousand miles or so.
Gimmicky name, but the reports are pretty much uniformly positive.
jim beam
that could indeed work, but i can't see the point given that good oils
do the job on their own anyway. my sludgy old engine got cleaned out
over a few thousand miles using mobil 1 which has an excellent detergent
package. and since then it's stayed clean, even with extended change
intervals.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/4291579733/
this motor had the classic black/brown grunge inside that you could
scrape off in big chunks.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
jim
jim beam wrote:
>
> On 05/22/2010 08:02 PM, Nomen Nescio wrote:
> > I have an engine 256,000 km that is full of sludge.
> > [this model engine lasts 300-400 thou if treated well]
> > Dropped the sump, and it was like vegimite. I cleaned that
> > but it is through the rest of the motor too. A friend said
> > put a litre of diesel in some cheap oil, run for 15 minutes,
> > that will wash a lot of crap out (throw away filter after
> > of course). Then searching a few forums, some bloke says
> > just use all diesel, no oil at all, for 15 minutes,
> > that will really be a good laxative.
> > I am way about this. Has anybody done this and not
> > ruined something?
> >
>
> when i was a kid, my dad tried this on one of his cars. it knocked the
> rod bearings out in about 3 minutes.
Any car engine that isn't already shot will idle for 3 minutes with no
oil in the crankcase without "knocking out the rod bearings". Flushing
with diesel isn't going to cause damage unless you do something stupid
like try to drive it up a steep hill with the diesel in the crankcase.
But, I wouldn't use straight diesel - you'll get more of the sludge
dissolved and in suspension if you mix the diesel with a high detergent
oil.
>
> instead, i suggest you use a modern detergent oil, and change it a bunch
> of times. maybe this stuff?
Wouldn't it have made a lot more sense to be changing the oil more
frequently all along? It is a sign of terminal stupidity to do extended
oil changes and then at 250,000 Km do a bunch of oil changes to make up
for it.
After flushing I would change the oil as soon as it gets so dark on
the dipstick that you can't see through it. That may be at 1000 miles or
50 miles depending on how dirty the engine is. And do the same for
every oil change thereafter. Following that regimen, you will be
surprised how few oil changes it takes to get the oil change interval up
to around 5000 miles (8000 Km).
-jim
jim beam
ah, i see my old buddy "jim" is back and playing his usual games of
twisting the words others say so he can have a fight with them! how's
it working for you jim? out of donuts and nothing on tv?
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
jim
jim beam babbled in Latin:
> >> nomina rutrum rutrum
> nomina rutrum rutrum
For anybody who is looking for advice and should the only advice they
read contain the signature "jim beam", they should do the opposite of
what that post contains, because the odds are excellent that will be
what works best.
nom rum rum
jim beam
i was wrong - you're out of twinkies, not donuts.
--
nomina rutrum rutrum
hls
"Nate Nagel" <njn...@roosters.net> wrote in message
> I've done it, not with a new engine though, only an old sludge monster.
> Don't run the engine under any load when doing this. I'd definitely
> use one quart of either oil or ATF, don't run straight Diesel fuel.
>
> nate
>
I have soaked mucked up engines, internally, with straight kerosene for
a day or two and then drained them, but I dont run them with kerosene
in them. You could probably get by with it for a short time under
no load, at low rpm, but I dont think it justifies the risk.
Kerosene is a solvent that doesnt attack most seals, etc, but it will
disperse a lot of the oil sludge.
I just fill the engine with kerosene or Stoddard solvent, soak as long
as is convenient, then drain, replace filter and use new oil.
That usually does the trick.
Xylene, toluene, and other aromatic solvents should never be used
for this purpose.
I have used Mystery Marvel Oil, per instructions, in the crankcase
oil, and driven it a couple hundred miles before changing oil. That
has seemed to work well for me as far as removing varnish. And
to keep the varnish off, I had to change brands of oil on that
particular occasion.
There are other engine flush solutions that probably work as well.
cuh...@webtv.net
Maybe I will start using Mobil oil.
cuhulin
hls
<cuh...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:19509-4BF...@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net...
> nana nana boo boo.
>
> Maybe I will start using Mobil oil.
> cuhulin
Okay...
Scott Dorsey
>
>when i was a kid, my dad tried this on one of his cars. it knocked the
>rod bearings out in about 3 minutes.
At what ratio? I think a slightly thinned oil probably won't hurt anything...
running pure diesel in there is asking for trouble just like you describe.
If it were me, I would take one quart of oil out, put ATF in, and drive it
around for a bit. The ATF is thick enough that your bearings won't get
wiped, and it's high enough detergent to get a lot of the crap out. I would
not run it for more than a couple hours like that though because it will
break down comparatively quickly.
I hope that the original poster cleaned everything as well as possible
(probably with naptha or some other light solvent) while they had the oil
pan out. Might be worth doing the same under the valve covers before you
try anything. The more stuff you get out by hand, the less stuff you have
to get out in the oil.
>instead, i suggest you use a modern detergent oil, and change it a bunch
>of times. maybe this stuff?
>
>http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_Clean_5000.aspx
I cannot say anything about this product, but I will say the regular grade
Royal Purple motor oil has substantially higher solvent properties than regular
motor oil. You don't just need the detergents to keep stuff in solution,
you need something that acts as a solvent to get that gum and varnish into
solution in the first place. The Mobil Clean appears to be designed to do
this also.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
N8N
>
> Wouldn't it have made a lot more sense to be changing the oil more
> frequently all along? It is a sign of terminal stupidity to do extended
> oil changes and then at 250,000 Km do a bunch of oil changes to make up
> for it.
You'd have a valid, albeit snarky, point if you assume that the OP
had bought his car new. I certainly have bought at least one used car
that was horribly sludged up inside because it was an otherwise nice
car and the price was right. (and then there were a few that I just
never looked to closely into the filler hole)
nate
Bob Flumere
wrote:
I've been following this thread for the past few days, a finally
decided to but in with the following, (voice of many years of
sometines sad experience) take it or leave it <G>
Almost any type of agresisive solvent related engine "flush" will end
up in disaster..
We used to say, "Bardahl did it again". (Bardahl being the maker of
an engine flush product of the past that aggresively loostened sludge
and varnish.)
The issue is that all of the loose sludgy debris is sucked into the
oil pump pickup screen, starving the oil pump and generally resulting
in a major crankshaft and bearing failure.
The way around this, of course, is to remove the oil pan (sump) after
a brief run with these kinds of chemicals, and clean the crap out of
the bottom and the oil pump pickup screen and hope to hell that
everything that got disturbed is now at the bottom of the engine or
you will be doing the crank and bearings sometime in the near future.
This kind of sludgy (jello like) debris will not likely drain out of
the drain plug hole and will not "fall off of" the pickup screen which
is the death knell for the crank and bearings.
My philosophy would be the "frequent oil and filter change" one, and
no use of agressive solvents at all. If the engine is running well,
quietly and not in need of any major repairs, you would be well served
to leave the sludge deposits right where they are.
They are NOT harmful in themselves unless oil passages (usually
returns from upper cylinder head areas) are blocked. This usually
cause gross oil consumption (and lots of smoke), from the valve stem
seals being flooded with oil that is unable to drain back into the
crankcase.
BTW, the lubricating properties of diesel fuel will probably be
inadequate for even a short run and you will be replacing the
crankshaft and bearings anyway!
As a final note, be sure that the breather system (PCV) is working,
because the PCV valve and hoses can be cleaned easily.. (External to
the engine) and that the engine is operating at the correct
temperature, (thermostat) and not running too cold, two major
contributors to making sludgy deposits..
Bob F.
jim
The point is the same even if he just bought the car. I figured it was
likely the OP was cleaning up somebody else's stupidity - somebody like
the person i directed my reply to.
>
> nate
N8N
> On Tue, 25 May 2010 11:51:56 -0700 (PDT), N8N <njna...@hotmail.com>
I agree with pretty much all you say in general, but sometimes you get
lucky. At least one car I've owned had been sitting since about 1969
and when I changed the oil, before the actual liquid came out, out
oozed a dark, thick snake of goo that looked like nothing but... well,
you can imagine. I think in that one I actually grabbed a drain pan
and filtered the oil drained out of another car through a paint
filter, then poured it in, let it warm up, then put fresh oil in.
Ick! AFAIK that car is still on the road today.
I also had the ATF flushed in my pickup truck for the first time at
about 130K miles. I've put about 10K miles on it since then and it
shifts better now than when I bought it.
I figured in both cases I had nothing to lose, and if flushing caused
something to fail, well, let's get it over with and get it rebuilt.
Didn't happen. (I'm not all that disappointed about it, either.)
nate
Bob Flumere
wrote:
>On May 25, 4:18�pm, Bob Flumere <rflum...@comcast.net> wrote:
Well said Nate..
but..
My only argument with this still stands assuming (and only if) the
engine is quiet, running well and not smoking, the sludge is better
left alone and simply changing the oil and filter at a more frequent
interval for a few changes is the safest alternative to the chance of
creating a problem that will surely terminate the life of the engine.
Disolving and putting a large quantity of engine deposits into
circulation will surely block the oil pump pickup screen resulting in
catastrophic crank and bearing failure. Not worth the chance IMHO.
ATF flushes at high mileage are another whole (much different) issue
but still can be a gamble if the fluid has deteriorated. Damned if
you do and damned if you don't so to speak. <G>
You do what you think is best and see what results. With a trans, it
can surely increase the life. Of course you are much more likely to
pull and clean the trans pan and change the filter when doing a tranny
flush!
The factors in using an agressive solvent to clean a sludgy engine are
much different than those in a tranny. (Much more more dangerous in my
opinion if you don't drop and clean the oil pan and oil pump pickup
screen after using the solvent).
Changing fluid, (engine, trans, rear end, brake etc.) is a lot more
benign than attempting to clean up a mess caused by lack of
maintanance with an aggresive solvent, diesel, or other commercial
flush.. The liability in doing this was so great, that most
commercial manufacturers of really agressive engine "flush" products
ceased to sell them. Those remaining on the market are really not
very strong (or effective) solvents for this reason.
Bob
cuh...@webtv.net
at a auto parts store) in the oil of the vehicle I owned at the time, I
don't remember which vehicle it was.I followed the directions on the
can.When I changed the oil and oil filter, I didn't notice any big
difference at all as far as removing extra gunk is concerned.Maybe the
engine was already clean enough anyway.
cuhulin
jim
Bob Flumere wrote:
> Well said Nate..
>
> but..
>
> My only argument with this still stands assuming (and only if) the
> engine is quiet, running well and not smoking, the sludge is better
> left alone and simply changing the oil and filter at a more frequent
> interval for a few changes is the safest alternative to the chance of
> creating a problem that will surely terminate the life of the engine.
>
> Disolving and putting a large quantity of engine deposits into
> circulation will surely block the oil pump pickup screen resulting in
> catastrophic crank and bearing failure. Not worth the chance IMHO.
This is what you imagine will happen to the OP's engine. If the OP puts
kerosene or diesel in the crankcase and idles the engine for 15 minutes,
he isn't going to dissolve any more of the deposits than if he changed
the oil and ran it for hundreds of miles. The only difference is that he
will get rid of that much of the dirt in 15 minutes instead of cycling
it thru the engine for 100's of miles.
Your imagination leads you to believe that kerosene or diesel is a lot
more aggressive at dissolving sludge that it really is.
If you actually had any experience doing this you would know that those
sludge deposits are not going to just suddenly dissolve. To get the
engine cleaned out is still going to take a series of more frequent oil
changes. If his efforts succeeds in getting one oil change worth of
sludge removed from the engine he can consider himself lucky.
I've seen the inside of a valve cover on a engine that was packed with
sludge. The guy who owned it was looking for a quick fix so he put the
cover back on and flushed it with kerosene. Then he opened it up again
and to his dismay all the sludge was still there. For the most part all
it had done was make the sludge look more shiny. Although you could see
a couple places where it had cut small grooves in the sludge.
The Op already cleaned out the oil pan and if the contents were like
vegemite as he said, then he probably saw some of it was already on the
oil pick up screen. The pick up screen and the oil passages are the sort
places where the oil flows rapidly and where a solvent like diesel is
going to be able to eat thru some of the sludge due to the aggressive
flow. The places where the oil flows more leisurely and where the sludge
is heavily built up it isn't going to do much of anything.
-jim
hls
"jim" <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net> wrote in message
news:YOWdneVPlYp29WHW...@bright.net...
>
> Your imagination leads you to believe that kerosene or diesel is a lot
> more aggressive at dissolving sludge that it really is.
>
Diesel or kerosene is NOT an aggressive solvent...Thank God. It will
help wash the slush out of an engine.. It will not remove varnish very
quickly if at all. Kerosene, at any rate, does not swell or eat up your
rubber seals, packing, etc.
Wash the damn engine block out, change oil and filters, and go on.
You can change oil more frequently after this, use additives, etc to
help remove the varnish with time.
This is not rocket science either. There are a lot of opinions abounding
here, some totally off course, others rather correct.
If you havent seen it personally, dont recommend it...If you HAVE seen
it, be sure you are correct about what you have observed.
Hachiroku ハチロク
>
> I have an engine 256,000 km that is full of sludge. [this model engine
> lasts 300-400 thou if treated well] Dropped the sump, and it was like
> vegimite.
WTF is *THAT*!?!?
(Actually, I do know. But I have never heard oil described as having the
consistancy of Vegimtie before! ;) )
cuh...@webtv.net
cuhulin
Bret
Vegemite is the correct spelling :)
cuh...@webtv.net
extract.
cuhulin
Bret
Also, Marmite :)
hls
"Bret" <a...@at.corn> wrote in message
> Vegemite is the correct spelling :)
Sump oil tastes better ;>)
cuh...@webtv.net
riding with me so I would learn the route.When we got through with the
route that day, he got two slices of bread and he spreaded a thick layer
of Crisco lard on the bread.He ate that lard sandwich.
cuhulin
Bret
You have to be raised on it lol.
hls
"Bret" <a...@at.corn> wrote in message
>>> Vegemite is the correct spelling :)
>>
>> Sump oil tastes better ;>)
>
> You have to be raised on it lol.
LOL
cuh...@webtv.net
painting overhead.A big gob of primer paint almost landed on my face.I
don't want to be eating any paint.
cuhulin
eugenes...@gmail.com
whtl...@gmail.com
Kevin Bottorff
news:6fe377c8-8dab-431d...@googlegroups.com:
KB
Scott Dorsey
head covers are torn right off by the expanding debris. That is exactly
the kind of video the kids want to be seeing.
Kevin Bottorff
news:oe2965$g7t$1...@panix3.panix.com:
stuff for these days. KB