Chrysler troubleshooting FAQ
Dave
It is posted about every two months to rec.autos.tech and every two
weeks to rec.autos.makers.chrysler.
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- - - - - - - - - - - -
PART IV - Troubleshooting (on Chrysler products)
This is separated into three parts: modern cars/trucks/minivans; classic
cars (rear wheel drive); and funny noises. Neon-specific items are in
the Neon FAQ. The funny noises section was created because it's the most
common problem, and seemed to warrant separation. If you have any
suggestions for organizing this FAQ, please let me know.
A list of which cars are included in which category is at the end.
** Index for Modern Cars/Trucks/Minivans: **
1. * Important! Fuel leak alert! - ALL 2.2 engines
2. Climate control system acting strangely
3. Idle speed jumps OR Intermittent idle speed problems (2.2/2.5)
*** (see also #28)
4. Automatic seat belts don't work/don't work well
5. Running rich
6. Tachometer problems
7. LH headlights not bright enough (Intrepid, Vision, Concorde)
8. Heater isn't working right (front wheel drive cars)
9. Caravan/Voyager door won't open/close
10. Oil seeps from the valve cover gaskets (2.2/2.5 liter engines)
11. Check Engine light went on
12. Computer code 13 (MAP sensor) - engine runs rough (see #15)
13. Backfiring
14. Air blows through the wrong vents
15. More information on the MAP sensor and testing it
16. Hard to shift into reverse
17. 2.5L engine knocks/ticks; poor cold idle
18. WIndshield washer nozzle freeze-up
19. Cylinder head or oil pan gasket leaks
20. Speedometer doesn't work
21. ABS jerky
22. Automatic transmission jerky in downshifts
22. Abrupt downshift from 3 to 2
23. Metallic banging during 2-1 downshift when stopping
25. Oil leak - manual transmission (VERY common)
26. Harsh 2-1 downshifts
28. Idle speed increases / engine races sometimes / erratically
(see LONG STORY at bottom of this FAQ).
29. Smoky exhaust
30. Power loss, stalling, and/or rough running
31. Stalling / not starting
32. Water leak in Shadow/Sundance hatch
33. Power drops dramatically (engines with carb - esp 2.6)
/ icing of carburetor and other parts
34. Gas gauge acts funny
35. Engine sometimes dies.
36. Control/status panel/console acting funny
37. Magnum V-6 engine problems
38. Temperature gauge problems
39. Stalling or poor idle - wet weather / snow
40. Head gasket seems to need replacement / coolant loss /
car runs hot / no heat / other coolant shenanigans
41. Power drop, black smoke, 2.6 liter
42. Oil loss/smoking from 3.0 V-6
43. TBI engine hesitation (2.2/2.5)
44. Power loss/jerky on acceleration
45. Turbo engine cutout/power loss: See long story at end
46. Oil in air filter area or in air intake
47. Hesitation (see related topics above)
Index for Classic Cars:
C1. Won't start
C2. Anything from pollution to loss of power -
mechanic says replace engine, trans, ignition, or carb
or stalling, rough idle, etc.
C3. Stalling
C4. Windshield wipers won't work
C5. Water leaks into the car
C6. Runs rough cold, improves with heat.
C7. Rough idle on Lean-Burn (computer controlled carburetor) systems
C8. Gas gauge acts funny: See #34 above.
C9. Stalling or poor idle - wet weather / snow -- see #39 above
Index of Funny Noises:
1. Noise on turns
2. Dakota creak
3. 2.5L engine knocks/ticks; poor cold idle
4. 4-cylinders: snapping noise when starting/stopping
5. Daytona rattle
6. Metallic banging during 2-1 downshift when stopping
7. Whining or whistling noises from belt driven accessories
(affects most FWD vehicles from 89-94).
8. Rattle from back of car (hatchbacks)
9. Rattles/noises from engine compartment
================================================================
1. FUEL LEAKS:
sese...@vt.edu (Sherrie E. Settle):
> They did do a recall for fuel line replacement in '88 (I have an '87), but it
> was presented as replacing a rigid line with a more flexible one.
My 1986 LeBaron GTS with 2.2 turbo was recalled for the same thing. They
put on a longer, more flexible piece of fuel line between the metal line
and the fuel pressure regulator. I discovered that a clamp on this line
was loose and fuel was dripping. I tightened the clamp, the leak stopped
and never came back.
* I'd recommend every 2.2 turbo owner check these fuel line clamps *
From: viking <wie...@acn.purdue.edu>:
I had the same problem with my '88 Omni 2.2L TBI. It was leaking a
small amount of fuel from one of the lines on the left rear of the
engine. Tightening the clamps did the trick here, too.
[ed:] The Center for Auto Safety notes that fuel leaks have been a
problem on CC turbo models. Check your clamps now and then.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Air Temperature Control Problems:
Problem: auto temperature control will get to a point where you can hear
the fan blowing full blast, but none of the vents will open! After 5
minutes it chooses whichi vent to use and all is fine. Likes to turn the
a/c on and off at will.
Anyone got a solution? This has been fixed recently, according to some
reports, so is there a TSB?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Intermittent Idle Problems:
psch...@ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu writes:
I've got any '87 Shadow, w/ a 2.2 Turbo I engine. It normally runs
great, but has a VERY intermittent idle problem. With no notice, hot
or cold, in rain or shine, the idle jumps from the usual 800 RPM or so
up to 3000+. Sometimes it goes away quickly, sometimes I have to
drive all the way home with it like that. It only happens once in a
great while. Not a linkage/accelerator problem, stuck throttle plate,
vacuum leak, or bad AIS motor. Something is causing the logic module to
open up the AIS motor and keep it there. This last time I manually got
the AIS motor closed and then disconnected it.
**
Try turning the defroster off. Last year my 84 Laser was doing the same
thing. When I turned off the defroster, the engine went back to proper
idle. Later, the computer kicked out the code for the speed/distance
sensor. (t...@po.cwru.edu (Tom))
**
I had the same problem and it was low freon in the A/C. (james eldridge)
**
I had this problem for a long time with my '88 Omni. It turns out that
the wiring harness on the back side of the engine gets so hot that it
damages the insulation on the wires, causing a short circuit. He
separated and re-insulated all of the wires, and the problem has not
recurred in over a year. -- Jeffrey J. Wieland
------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. Automatic seat belt problems
In the early part of 1993, there was a recall for "P-car auto shoulder
belt" The symptom was inoperative automatic shoulder belts. The fix
was
to lubricate the tracks at least once a year with Passive Restraint
Track
Grease. The Chrysler part number for a .5 oz tube is 4680370. Check to
see
if your car had the recall work done. If not, then Chrysler will
replace the inoperative seat belts. (Wayne Toy)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. Alexander V. Khrabrov (sa...@aquila.dartmouth.edu) wrote:
: 2.2 TBI engine in my '88 Horizon--The engine runs too rich diring
: crank-up, and for some time after. A couple of times it even wouldn't
: start because of flooding. The overall gas mileage isn't bad however:
: 25-26 mpg (auto transm). The symptom is more likely to show up when
: the car is started hot, or with a cold engine, when the ambient
: temperature is warm. The condition got better after replacing the
: oxygen sensor, but hadn't gone completely.
mjbe...@mtu.edu (Mb) said:
Tune up the carb by changing the ratio, you should probably turn down
the fuel instead of turning up the air though. It will take alot of
time to get it right, but when you do you will see better overall
performance. I had that problem with my 86 Charger with 2.2L. After I
tuned up the carb, I drove to Ft. Lauderdale, Fla. with the air
condidtioning most of the way and I pulled off 33mpg!!!!!
Jesse Oliver said:
My sister had the same problem with a 2.2 Shadow. Finally we just
unhooked the wire to the injector and put a toggle switch in the line.
Every time the car wouldn't start, usually dead of winter in high winds,
she would pop the hood, flip the switch and the car would clean itself
out, then flip the switch back on and she was off and running. We owned
the car for 2 years after installing the switch and used it 5 or 6 times
a winter.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. Tach probs:
Tom (t...@po.cwru.edu) sez:
I've come across a number of Lasers/Daytonas with broken tachometers. If
it appears that the tach works sometimes, and tends to skip when you hit
a bump, the problem most likely is the computer chip that processes the
signal. This chip clips onto the top rear of the dash cluster unit. It
runs about $45. I don't think the chip actually breaks, but the
contacts don't maintain constant contact.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
7. LH headlights:
Early headlights were not very bright. The lens was upgraded sometime in
1994, so 95 models should be OK. Some dealers will replace the lenses
for free on older models. Some may not. You can order new lenses or just
keep trying dealers. The TSB is 08-38-94.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
8. Heater problems:
From: (Jim Van Damme) vand...@lonex.rl.af.mil
I had a wimpy heater in my Lancer. Then I took off some ducts to see
inside it ... The temperature regulator door doesn't seal well when
in the HOT position, allowing a little bit of cold (in my case, -10C)
air to bypass the heater core. I stuffed a 4-5 mm by 12 cm piece of foam
in there, closed the temperature door on it to make a seal, and unhooked
the cable from it (until March) so it would be held in by the door.
If your radiator cap leaks or the hose to the CRS bottle
leaks the vacuum will be lost and it won't suck the juice back in. Blow
on the bottle to see. Gross but might work. You could also have a blown
head gasket that continually blows a little combustion gas into the
coolant but let's not think about that.
Dennis Lippert notes: The temperature gauge will swing back and forth
until the entire system is warmed fully. This is because you keep
introducing "cold" coolant from the radiator into the engine, rapidly
cooling it. WHen the temp falls enough, the thermostat closes, and the
temp goes back up, repeating the cycle. This is due to a valve which
lets you get heat before the thermostat opens up. Normally, the engine
"keeps the heat to itself" until the thermostat opens... releasing hot
coolant to the radiator and heater. In the mid-80's, Chrysler started
to use the bypass system... keeping the warm coolant in the engine *and
heater* when the thermostat was closed.
Peter Galambos related: Regular coolant flush helped me to get some
heat, but didn't fix it... When I first got the Voyager, large chunks of
paint fell off the engine block due to surface rust. Since the coolant
looked fine, I didn't think there was internal rust. I guess I was
wrong, because the heater core became plugged. Fixed by flushing the
system with oxalic(sp?) acid (i.e. Prestone Super Flush). Nasty stuff,
comes in powder form, keep away from skin, eyes and lungs, must be
followed up with neutralizer flush. The stuff drained out DARK brown,
and now the heater works great and the engine temperature changes much
less dramatically. Since the primary coolant flow is through the heater
core when the thermostat is closed, the restriction may have been
causing the engine to heat up faster than thermostat could respond.
Since I replaced the thermostat at the same time I flushed the system,
I'll never know for sure...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
9. Caravan/Voyager stuck doors:
From: michael....@mercury.msfc.nasa.gov (Mike Stallcup)
> I had the [Grand Caravan] door open and I slid it closed, only I didn't
> push it very hard and it did not close all of the way. I pushed against
> the door to make it 'snap' into place, but it wouldn't close, so I decided
> to slide the door open all of the way and then close it with more force.
> The problem is, the door wouldn't open! I tried opening it from both the
> outside and the inside, no luck. I made sure the door was unlocked,
> although the van has power locks, I was wondering if one of them was stuck
> in a locked position internally (I locked and unlocked the power locks
> several times). Just for the heck of it, I tried once more to open the
> door. Sure enough, the door opened right away, with very little effort!
We had the same problem on a '87 Caravan. First, the interior trim panel
is held to the sliding door with spring clips which seem to get tired
over the years. Sometimes when you shut the door it pops loose at the
back of the door and jams the door from opening. Crawl in from the
front, push the trim panel back onto the door and try to open it.
I also found that if I stood outside, reached inside past the front
passenger seat and grabbed the inside sliding door handle, then held the
outside sliding door handle, I could pull the door closed enough to
release the latch and open the door.
I think the second factor was that the roller on the track at the
top/inside of the door was out of alignment. Over the years the bolts
had loosened and the door was not closing tight (the power door locks
did not work on the sliding door - another clue because the two metal
contacts in the door jamb were not aligning properly). Remove the trim
cover on the top roller bracket and tighten/readjust the bolts. You may
have to try several times until you get them at the right setting. I
used some Locktite thread locker. Haven't had any problems since then.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
10. Oil seepage from the valve cover gaskets:
Around 1987, Chrysler switched from using a gasket to using RTV sealant,
which wasn't great but was better than the gasket. In 1994, they
switched to a 1 piece valve cover from a 3 piece cover, according to a
technical rep. The rep was not sure as to whether the new cover could be
retrofitted to the older engines, but it seems likely.
This is a known problem but half the polled customer service reps were
honest about it; the situation calls for great assertiveness. Keep
checking your engine, especially around the spark plug area, for seeping
oil. Ask that your engine be cleaned every time the dealer fixes the
seepage. If your car is out of warranty, try to have the seepage fixed
anyway by insisting that it *is* a known problem and that is why they
have technical advisories on it. I personally have been unable to find
the TSB, which makes me suspicious.
I think that all owners of seeping engines should write to CC
immediately and demand that something be done.
BTW this is not an urgent problem, just a very annoying one that they
should have addressed long ago. I estimate leakage to be less than 1/2
quart over 6,000 miles of moderately hard driving.
Now, solutions for do-it-yourselfers (out of warranty folk):
Paul F. Schikora said: Went to NAPA and got a gasket set and a bottle
of gasket goo (orange colored stuff). Took my time cleaning the
surfaces completely and applied the gasket & goo per instructions. No
more leak. (Did this over this past summer). However, I'm sorry I
didn't take the time to reseal the PCV connection cover. It's always
bled quite a bit of oil into the valve and air filter. (Note: this was
for 1987 model, which had a gasket).
Dietrich Schellenberg says: Clean all the surfaces so they are
completely free of oil(Loctite Clean & Cure Primer is a good cleaner)
put a bead of *high temperature* silicone around then place the valve
cover on. Put in all the bolts and tighten very lightly, You want about
1/8" thickness of silicone left between the cover and head. Let dry over
night(24 Hrs) and then tighten the bolts to spec [usually very
lightly!]. They may be hard to remove if you ever have to but they will
not leak.
JoDee McKenney says: From my own engine rebuilding experience, I'd use
the gaskets and the high temp silicone on each of the metal surfaces.
This allows a way to seal the parts together and still get them apart
later.
George Young notes: My '86 Reliant with 2.5 litre EFI has this
"gasket-in-a-tube" compound instead of a real gasket. It has always
leaked. Perhaps the dealer's shop
does not know about the "apply, connect loosely, _WAIT_ and then
tighten" method? For any work I had done to the gasket I was always sent
home same day and never asked to come back next day for a torque down.
[Dave's experience: the dealer only takes 1/2 hour for this repair.]
Slant-Six Daniel Stern warns: DO NOT DO THIS on an engine with
mechanical lifters (i.e G/RG engines and early V8s) because there will
be hell to pay when it comes time to adjust the tappet clearance.
Ron Gallerie asks, What about the ends on the 4 cyl. engines (2.2L,
2.5L) which already have the rubber "gasket"? I've always suspected the
joint between the rubber end gaskets and the cork gasket as being the
probable cause of my oil leaks.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
11. Check Engine light goes on:
1. This may be due to the need for a periodic service.
2. It may be the oxygen sensor (Steve Sheldon <she...@iastate.edu>)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
12. Engine runs rough - computer shows code 13
From: jiz...@cc.umanitoba.ca (Jizhong Wang)
I won't entirely trust the computer fault codes. I have a 84 Dodge 600
ES. A couple of months ago the car stalled ocasionally with the "Power
Loss" light on. My computer said it was MAP sensor vacuum circuit (code
13). I got a hand air vacuum pump and checked MAP sensor and hoses. I
took the car to a dealer and told my computer was faulty - didn't
replace it. Later I found a 6-way connector was loose. It was AIS motor
and TPS sensor connector, nothing to do with MAP sensor. I can easily
reproduce fault code 13 by
1). start engine;
2) make a loose connection of the 6-way connnector by shaking;
3) engine stalls or almost stalls;
4) check computer fault code. Code 13 and only Code 13 shows up. Based
on those, I suggest you check the connections and vacuum leaks before
you replace MAP sensor. BTW, my MAP sensor is accessable under dash of
passager side, inside the car. It is two inchs above ECM.
(t...@po.cwru.edu <Thomas Z. Zeeb> adds: on Caravan/Voyager, it is
located under the hood and screwed into the firewall, just off center to
the left, kind of above and behind the belts. It has one vacuum hose
and one three-node electrical connector attached to it. They range from
$70 -$100 US at the dealer. Sometimes if the MAP is shot, the engine
will shut down after starting. Try disconnecting the MAP, the engine
will then run (rough) in some models.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
13. Backfiring
[from: al...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Glen Larche)] [In reply to someone who
was told by the dealer that their backfiring was caused by a damaged
airpump check valve or aspirator valve...the backfire only occurs when
driving at high speeds and then suddenly letting up on the gas]. Sounds
like you probably have a bad divertor valve (or one of its controls). It
should *stop* air from being pumped into the exhaust during
deceleration. Normally it pumps air into the exhaust to help burn off
any unburned fuel. During deceleration there is a noticable backfire if
it continues to pump air into the exhaust. Follow the large hose from
the air pump, you should come to a valve with 3 hoses the same size (one
from the pump, one to the valve you say they replace and to other
possibly to the air filter ) There should also be a smaller vacuum line
to this unit. Make sure the unit's diaphram is good.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
14. Air blows through the wrong vents
Problem: under acceleration, air comes through the defroster vents
instead of the vents it's supposed to come through. Reason: a valve that
sits in a vacuum line went bad. That valve leads to a vacuum reserve
tank, and the tank either wasn't forming a vacuum or the vacuum in the
tank couldn't get out. (The reserve tank may also have gone bad, or
there may be a leak in the system). (Lloyd R. Parker)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
15. More MAP stuff
[From: boh...@usgp1.ih.att.com (-Bodnar,B.L.)] Here's what the "MAP
sensor pneumatic circuit" code is, and how it is set. When the engine is
first cranked, the computer does two things with the MAP sensor:
1). Before the starter engages, the map reading is taken and stored as
the barometric pressure (BP) reading. All carbureted engine systems and
speed-density fuel injected systems without a separate BP sensor do
this.
Now, the Chrysler unique part:
2). When the engine is cranking, the computer looks for a DROP in
manifold pressure IF the throttle position sensor indicates closed
throttle. If there is no pressure drop, then the MAP pneumatic circuit
is clearly faulty. This is the ONLY time the fault code can be set. If
this fault code is set, the computer will switch to a default MAP
reading (stored in ROM) and use this to allow the vehicle to be driven.
Things which can cause this fault code to be set:
1). On MAP sensors mounted in the logic module: ice buildup in the
vacuum hose going from the throttle body to the MAP sensor (there was a
TSB out on this).
2). Loose vacuum hose going to the MAP sensor.
3). Major air leak (note: on speed-density controlled engines, a
moderately sized air leak will result in an increase in idle rpm -- this
is because the MAP is the primary indicator of engine load). -- Bohdan
Bodnar
al...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Glen Larche) adds:
Relocation kit available for these. Some had problems at freezing
temperatures. Rough cold idle and stall. Seems condensation in the hose
would freeze.
Kit for turbo vehicles- 4419402
Kit for EFI vehicles- 4419401
Both should be available from your Chrysler dealer. Purpose- relocate
MAP sensor under the hood, right hand side strut tower.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
16. Hard to shift into reverse (manual transmissions)
fran...@munch.lkg.dec.com sez this problem is common to cars which have
synchronized forward gears, but nonsynchronized reverse gears. The trick
is to shift into a forward gear before going into reverse. Or wait a few
moments before shifting into reverse, after hitting the clutch, so the
engine shaft stops spinning.
- valiant notes that the CC five-speed in many cars was modified in 1993
or thereabouts to make getting into reverse easier. THe teeth were set
at an angle for easier engagement (info from the press books).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
17. 2.5 liter knock/idle
Some cars may have a cold engine knock a few seconds after startup,
lasting about 3-5 minutes -- most noticable at 2,000 - 2,500 rpm. Sounsd
like valve lifter or tappet noise. Noise loudest when weather colder.
Usually disappears when the car is warm.
OR
Cold idle rough util coolant reaches 50-60 degrees F.
-- TSB 09-06-93 provides for replacement of the Powertrain Control
Module (the computer). (<valiant>)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
18. WIndshield washer nozzle freeze-up
There is a check valve to correct washer nozzle freeze ups (which CC may
not acknowledge). (Jim Hoare)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
19. Cylinder head or oil pan gasket leaks
Lemon-Aid Used Car Guide: "Owners of 1989-93 models report that cylinder
head and oil pan gaskets are prone to leaking."
Under "Secret warranties/service tips/recalls":
"1990-91 - Owners can get a new cylinder head gasket cover on models
equipped
with 2.2L and 2.5L engines under a safety recall campaign." (Jim Hoare)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
20. Speedometer doesn't work
There is a TSB out on this problem. It happens most frequently with the
Shadow/Sundance, it seems. Take it to your dealer, they should fix it
for free. The TSB was issued in 1994.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
21. ABS jerky
Also shows up on diagnostics test by the dealer. Reprogramming the PCM
fixes the brakes. (Dealer must do this). -- from s...@mtispan.mt.att.com
(Steve Chu)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
22. Transmission jerky / downshifts abruptly
"Tranny downshift from 3 to 2 in an extremely abrupt motion...if the van
slows to less than 10 mph and gas is applied, tranny jerks and makes a
metal pinging noise."
FIX: Replacement and reprogramming of the controller; and fluid change.
There is a TSB on this problem, so you must take it to your dealer ASAP
and have it fixed... you may have to argue to get it done (it's not a
recall). Steve Chu seays: "I drove the van this morning and I must say
the jerk went away! I can't even feel any downshifting at all!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
23. Metallic banging during 2-1 downshift when stopping
Jim Zimmerman had this in his Caravan. There was a TSB on this, but the
dealer said "you have to complain LOUDLY. The service guy called it the
'post shift bang' "
------------------------------------------------------------------------
25. Oil leak from manual transmission
(from Val...@mordor.com) This applies to all cars and minivans with the
manual trans A-523, A-543, and A-568 (most of them). The TSB (21-24-93)
says that "vehicles that are in the dealership for any other reason
should also be inspected for this leak condition." What is replaced is a
remote vent assembly in place of the existing lock pin, and a new
linkage adjusting procedure for future service. It should take about 20
minutes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
26. Harsh 2-1 downshifts
I noted that TSB 21-16-93 covers "harsh 2-1 downshift" on the 41TE
transaxle, the four-speed auto in most CC cars (including Shadow,
Imperial, minivans). Years affected were 1989-1992. The change is
replacing the transmission control module. NOTE that this is only for
cars with the 3.3, 3.8, or 3.0 liter engine and 4-speed auto.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
28. Idle speed increases/engine races:
See LONG STORY at bottom of this FAQ.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
29. Smoky exhaust
From: m...@metronet.com (Mo Brooks)
Smoke Color / Reason
Black = Too much fuel
(probably a bad sensor or dirty air cleaner)
Blue = Oil
White = Water
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
30. Power loss, stalling, and/or rough running
From: mcc...@mitre.org (Phil McClay): I've got an 87 Sundance w/ 2.2L
(non-turbo) which likes to be fed MAP
sensors. The car has 130k miles and runs great. But occasionally it
runs
like you describe above, and it turned out to be the MAP sensor. The
part is a $20 item and is located on the passenger-side
fender well; real easy to change yourself. The first time the MAP
sensor
went bad, it didn't show up on the dealer's computer, but the engine
light
was lit. Other times it just ran like hell w/ no indicators. Now the
MAP
sensor is the 1st thing I try instead of calling anyone.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
31. Stalling / not starting
From: devo@gonix (Aaron): My LeBaron GTS Turbo had this problem. The car
would drive okay, then just DIE for no reason at all. The tachometer
would drop then pop back up, then it would run for a few seconds and
die. Then I could not get it started for a day or so. Then it started,
drove for about 10 minutes, died. It was a bad firing coil.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
32. Water leak in Shadow/Sundance hatch
From tdr...@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Tim Drake - E81): [the trunk in my] 87
Sundance leaked like mad. When I first found the problem I had about 6
inches of water in the wheel well. It took me years to discover the
water was comming from the hatchback down through the lights. To fix it
I took the lights cover off and treated the gaskets (probably did
nothing) and I drilled small holes in the bottom of the light covers,
so the water could leak out the bottom. It's been bone dry ever since.
We should hit 100K this next weekend.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
33. Power drops dramatically (engines with carb - esp 2.6)
In cold weather, some vehicles with the 2.6 liter 4-cylinder engine
(including minivans) may have a problem which causes power to drop (e.g.
after running about 20 minutes between 60 and 65 mph) dramatically. If
one steps on the gas, black smoke may come out of the tailpipe. Shutting
off the engine for a minute and then restarting helps temporarily. The
problem: carburetor icing at the throttle body opening. The solution
(from wit...@mayo.edu <Dave Witte>): A de-icing kit to heat the intake
air enough to prevent freezing. SOME engines had this kit installed at
the factory, but may need a replacement part. The kit is not expensive.
---
>The problem is that ice forms in the intake, most commonly the
>carburator. The dealer knows about it and has some "kit" they install
>for it. Mine had this, and I'm sure it helped at some point, but not
>anymore.
>
>I had iceing in the carb, the aircleaner, and the pipe that connected
>them both...
...
Maybe someone has covered this already, but did you check the
carburetor air heater? My '83 FWD car manual shows that the
2.6L did have one. The tube that comes up from the exhaust
manifold, will, of course, be on the back side of the engine,
and therefore hard to reach. If it is torn or missing, it
should be replaced. Also, when the engine is cold, make sure
that the vacuum actuator in the air horn leading to the air
cleaner housing is working. In cold weather, with the engine
cold, it should redirect all of the air flow through the stove
on the exhaust manifold. (Jeff Wieland)
---
The problem was freezing of the carb. and the answer was to moved the
hose that feeds outside air to the air filter compartment and position
it somehwere to the rear of the engine. This prevents the outside cold
air from making its way over to the carb.(Ken)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
34. Gas gauge acts funny
From: M.R...@ens.gu.edu.au (Maurice H. Rich) - re gas gauge that bounces
all the time on an 89 Wrangler.
I had a similar problem with my '76 VK Valiant wagon. The fuel gauge
pickup is simply a wire wound resistor with a little arm that moves
across it, and this arm is attached to the float. What happens over time
is that the wire wears very thin and eventually breaks. My gauge would
be alright until the float reached the half way point, then it would
bounce all over the place until the level fell way below half. This is
because the voltage (or other signal) coming from the pickup, simply
disappeared momentarily, and the gauge followed. I suggest you get one
from the wreckers, and if it's in good condition, it should be a simple
matter to fit it. My gauge pickup (not an American truck, by the way),
is held in place by
a circular collar, which has to be turned about 90 degrees to loosen it,
and then the assembly comes out of the tank. Just remove the wire/s
connected to it, and fit the new one, which is a reversal of removal.
I've just encountered the problem you describe in a 1992 Plymouth
Voyager.
I traced the problem to the sending unit. It seems that Chrysler Corp.
uses a printed circuit rheostat which can short out, indicating a
partial tank when the tank may actually be full. It's a pretty simple
fix, and the part really is'nt all that expensive. I don't think it's a
bad float, on account of the tank would read empty
in all situations. (Robert Sherman)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
35. Engine sometimes dies.
>I have an 89 Dodge Spirit w/ 93,000 miles. Every once in a while
>it just flat dies. Fuel is fine, the engine will start for a
>second or two and then die. But get this, if I unplug the MAP
>sensor, the car will run. Now, before anyone starts, the MAP
>sensor has been changed, and the computer has been changed, and
>no fault codes show up on the analyzer.
You must be dealing with incompetent mechanics. Here's what they should
do:
1). Hook a scan tool to the computer and set it to capture snapshots
of the data the computer sees.
2). When the problem occurs, the driver (or whoever is operating the
tool) informs the scan tool of this. The tool will now mark the
captured data frame as the "trouble frame."
3). Unload the data from the scan tool -- the frames before the
"trouble
frame" show what the computer saw before the problem occurred, the
"trouble frame" shows what the computer saw when the trouble
occurred,
and the subsequent frames show what the computer saw after the
trouble
occurred.
Disconnecting the MAP sensor merely causes the computer to substitute
a
default value in its memory for the MAP reading and to ignore this
sensor's output. You can achieve the same by disconnecting the vacuum
hose to the sensor with the engine off and then starting the engine.
The computer won't see a change in MAP while cranking, will set the
"MAP
pneumatic circuit" fault code, and then ignore the MAP sensor. By the
way, is your MAP sensor mounted on the logic board or is it underneath
the hood? -- Bohdan Bodnar
------------------------------------------------------------------------
36. Control/status panel acting funny
There is a way for the Control Panel to test itslef to see if it can
find any internal faults. You should be able to start this test by
hoding down the trip and trip reset buttons, turning ignition to on
and
then release the buttons. Then press the US/Met button and read what
is
displayed by the speedometer. Press the US/Met button again and you
should see a six displayed. This will probably come up OK since your
problem seems to be related to information the panel is receiving.
However anytime you can easily narrow down the problem it is usually
worth it. Also check the codes stored in the engine computer (turn
the
ignition on-off-on-off-on and count the number of time the power loss
or
check engine light flashes) -- st92...@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu (Matt
Rowe)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
37. Magnum V-6 engine problems
Problem: 1992 Dakota 4x4 with Magnum V-6. Engine faltering badly
sometimes when cold, sometimes when hot. On cold starts, the engine
will sometimes act as
though it's getting gas only at idle, won't accelerate. Sometimes this
happens right when I start off, sometimes not untill I get 1/4 mile to
several miles down the road. It will cough and sputter awhile, then
"catch" and take off, running fine from then on. Other times, it will
"skip a beat or two" at speed, under mild acceleration. At other times,
when I have been driving a long time, when I come to a stop, it will
stall repeatedly and have some difficulty restarting but pretty much run
O.K. Other times, after driving for an hour or two, it will start to
run badly at high speeds, particularly when climbing a grade.
Possible solutions (David Wright): I have heard of several people
getting Magnum engines with the distributor "mis-phased", causing
intermittent missing. It's possible that this is what's happening to
you. Another thing would be to check that the EGR valve isn't sticking
open.
Jerald Barker adds: Had similar problems- -replacing back pressure
transducer and EGR valve fixed them. The Back Pressure Transducer lies
next to the EGR valve just above the left valve cover.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
38. Temperature gauge problems
Robert Rowe: Try grounding the wire coming of the sending unit
momentarily while the enging is warm or hot. If the gauge moves upward
toward the correct temp, the sender is at fault. Do not ground for a
long period of time as this can damage the gauge. Incidentaly, the
ignition must be turned on for this test. Hope this helps.
Peter Galambos: Temperature gauge would suddenly jump to 3/4 or almost
full scale for a few seconds and then drop back to center. I hooked a
voltmeter to the temperature sender input to the body computer and
actually saw nice linear voltage swings. It appears
that the gauge is designed to go super non-linear above a certain
temperature. I disconnected the radiator fan long enough to verify that
it was thermostat cycling causing the temperature swing and replaced the
thermostat and antifreeze.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
39. Stalling or poor idle - wet weather / snow
Snow and rain spray blew in through the grille, through the opening
where the air conditioner lines go. That moisture ended up directly on
the distributor and ignition wires. I put some pink fiberglass house
insulation in the gap around the AC lines, just jammed it in, and have
not had that problem since then.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
40. Head gasket seems to need replacement / poor temp regulation
Bars Leak has worked for some people to prevent head gasket replacement.
It's in a clear bottle and is black stuff with solid particles on bottom
of the jar.
Ross Gunn <ac...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>My '86 Aires had a similar problem. After shutting off the engine, I
>could hear air (exhaust) bubbling back through the coolant overflow
>bottle. A new head gasket was the solution. The dealer estimated $500
for
>the job. I did the job myself for under $100.
This also happened in my car ('85 Omni). The clamp on the hose to the
overflow bottle wasn't tight enough; it had loosened during recent
pressure-checking of the cooling system. -- Louise Penberthy
I managed to trace a slow coolant leak to the point near the firewall
where rubber coolant hoses are clamped to the metal ends of the heater
core tubes. Tightening the clamps a few turns ended the problem. I
probably never would've discovered the culprit had I not noticed that
some tape around a nearby cable had an odd green-ish tint. -- Roger
Fradenburgh
>> I've just recently started having problems with my 88 lebaron running
>> hotter than normal.
The Le Baron probably has either the 2.2 liters or 2.5 liters engine.
The cooling systems in these engines *MUST* be purged of air before
operation; otherwise, coolant flow blockage will result (i.e., hot,
possibly REALLY hot, engine). Partial purging (experience here) will
cause the engine to run hotter than normal; the engine's temperature
will gradually drop to normal as the system purges itself over a
period
of several days/weeks. These engines' cooling systems can be purged
quite easily by parking the car on an incline (front much higher than
rear) and cycling the engine on/off until the thermostat opens and the
air is expelled into the radiator. The proper way is to use the bleed
screw in the thermostat's housing...on some engines (like my 2.5) this
screw is frozen in place because of lack of use; hence, the heat
soaking of the thermostat's housing. -- Bohdan Bodnar
Sometimes you can fry your brand new thermostat if you don't
burp it properly. I guess Bohdan knows more about the specifics
involved with LeBarons, but I would always just crank the heat,
leave the radiator cap off, and start the car to purge the
cooling system. If you run it until it warms up this way it
should be purged without waiting the week or so. -- Terry L. Howe
We just went through this with my neighbors 3.0L Voyager. He
complained
of white smoke in the exhaust, we found oil in the water and vice
versa.
The dealer told him approx 1,000$ to replace head gaskets. I told him
that if he was not in a big hurry, we could do the job ourselves.
While
we had the car apart (what a project) we replaced the head gsakets
(both) , timing belt, water pump, plugs & wires, etc. As we were in
there already and the parts weren't expensive. We laso replaced the
speedo cable as the best way to get at it was when the heads were off.
The good news is the new gaskets solved his problem, plus he has a lot
more power now than he had before. I have heard so many stories about
head gasket leaks on 3.0 L Mitsubishi engines that I think it is
common
problem. Oh yeah, even with all the other parts we put on, we spent
less than $300. -- ssmye...@aol.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
41. Power drop, black smoke, 2.6 liter
>After running for about 20 minutes the power drops out to the point
>where I have to pull over. If I am in "Park or Nuetral" and step on the
>gas peddle, black smoke comes from the tail pipe.
This is a really weird problem with 2.6L engined minivans ... what was
explained to me is that when you're driving, the airflow goes right
over the carburetor ... freezing it solid. Second you stop, engine
heat thaws it out (which is why you can stop, restart, and it seems a
lot better). I was told to put a metal shield in front of the carburetor
to help deflect wind around it and it worked just fine. -- Jonathan N.
Deitch
------------------------------------------------------------------------
42. Oil loss/smoking from 3.0 V-6
The reason why the older 3.0 heads smoke is because the exhaust
valve guides sink into the head. The usual repair is to remove both
cylinder heads, knock the guides back to their normal position, and have
snap rings installed onto the guides so that they don't sink again.
(Eric Eleazar, Mopar Class A Technician, Dick Greenfield Dodge,
Lawrenceville, NJ)
I believe there is a TSB on this, but it is not a recall. I took
my car ('89 NY - 3.0 L V6) in to fix an oil leak and the service tech
said that there was oil leaking past the seals, and he needed to replace
the heads, and install newly redesigned valve guides. My car was under
warranty, so I let him do it. At the time however, I did not see any
unusual smoking or anything, but he said it was a "common" problem,
so he did it. (adp9...@rosie.uh.edu (Ashish))
------------------------------------------------------------------------
43. TBI engine hesitation (2.2/2.5)
2.5 liter, TBI: Intermittent engine hesitation under high speed driving
ONLY or under moderately high speed and heavy acceleration. The problem
NEVER occurs during moderate driving or heavy acceleration at low to
moderate speeds.
Chrysler had many problems with that TBI injector; there were a number
of recalls. I at one point, also being an ASE Master Tech, fought one
of those things for several days before finding the problem.
The brass pin you see from the top of the injector controls pintle
throw. It seems they didn't make it a tight enough fit. Eventually the
pin begins to back out and the ECM keeps shortening the injector pulse
to compensate for the change in mixture. The process can take several
months before it produces symptoms. After continued driving, the pin
backs out to a point that the ECM can no longer compensate for and you
get driveability problems. (do...@ix.netcom.com)
I would first check fuel pressure, its around 14.5 psi engine off (using
DRB in actuator test) I have also seen the distributor pick-up unit on
these cut out intermittently. When the computer loses the signal from
the distributor, it shuts fuel/spark off. Also in the distributor
itself there is a HALL-effect plate which tends to get loose. This
causes erratic signals too. One TSB involves re-locating the MAP
sensor from the logic module(right kick panel) to the right strut
tower. Water would sometimes condense in the MAP sensor vacuum line
and contaminate the sensor. EGR failures are also common. They
sometimes get stuck open and cause hesitation problems. Try
disconnecting the vacuum hose from the EGR valve. The car will
probably ping on acceleration, but hesitation should cease. The valve
is located on the driver's side end of the exhaust manifold. You may
have to remove the air cleaner housing to see it. Faulty TPS sensor
can cause this type of problem. It may have a "dead spot" (Eric
Eleazar)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
44. Power loss/jerky on acceleration
(89 Aries, 2.5, after 1/2 hour car jerks, fine on short drives).
Well, I can tell you this much - I fought a similar problem for 18
months ... it would falter, stumble, hesitate, and basically do anything
but pull. The dealers (all 13 I went to) collectively replaced the map
sensor, crank sensor, cam sensor, spark plugs, spark plug wires, turbo
boost solenoid, egr valve, pcv valve, and just about every other
performance-related gadget on the whole freaking engine...I found a
dealer who knew something about what they worked on, and they fixed the
whole problem in under an hour. ALL this time, the plug wires had been
installed incorrectly, and were not providing a secure connection to the
spark plugs. The engine computer tried desperately to correct for it,
but couldn't...My advice to anyone who has problems with a Chrysler
product and keeps getting nothing but stupid computerized diagnostics
that say "there's nothing wrong!" when you know there is. Find a dealer
who actually has a brain cell or two and doesn't just plug in the magic
brain ... and will actually TEST the car. (jno...@usa.net)
Turned out to be the fuel filter (86 Aries 5-speed, 2.2).(Dave)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
46. Oil in air filter area or in air intake
There is a curtain in the valve
cover which should prevent most oil from being blown out the
breather. Any oil in mist form should stay in mist and be
captured by the air filter.
I had a problem where someone replaced my leaking valve cover gasket
and *forgot* to reinstall the curtain. I was blowing about a quart
every 500 miles.
The worst part was that it *looked* like my rings were blown.
You would step on it on the freeway, oil would pump out the breather,
go down the air heater hose and burn on the exhaust manifold producing
copious amounts of oil smoke. (Thomas Lee Grice)
This is often just from a stuck PCV valve. If it is, chances are it's
leaking down to the air filter (and the air intake pipe) from a black
hose which comes up to the air horn (2.2/2.5 engines).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
47. Hesitation (also covered elsewhere)
Problem: 2.5 l engine hesitates/sputters/lurches for a second now and
then under normal driving conditions (highway, cruising, foot steady on
gas). Reason: plug wires were going bad. (Paul F. Schikora )
Problem: hesitation/lurching. Solution: fouled plugs. Oil fouled plugs
may indicate serious problems or just bad PCV valve.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
==============================================================
************ Older Car Troubleshooting ************
C1. Won't start (val...@mordor.com <Dave>):
If the engine is dry and all was well before, check the ballast
resistor. It's a little white block attached to the firewall (the metal
between the engine and the driver), attached with a single bolt ands
connected to two electrical wires. It's incredibly easy to replace but
will eventually fail and prevent your car from starting. Should be under
$5.
If the starter makes a rapid clicking noise, your battery may be worn
down, even if you can use your headlights. You will need a jump start
from a car with a large engine and very good wires. Hint: get very good
jumper cables.
If the engine was wet, dry it, separate the wires, and try again, Use
silicone spray or "wire drier" or, better yet, replace your wires with
top of the line, name-brand, lifetime warranty, 8 mm wires. These will
probably improve your gas mileage and power as well.
SL6 Dan (das...@gladstone.uoregon.edu) adds: The thickness of the
insulation is not nearly so important as what is inside. You won't
necessarily improve your gas mileage or ignition reliability with 8mm
wires unless the old ones were REALLY bad. For daily drivers, the best
wire I've found is Whitaker's Multi-Mag. It comes in the same
configurations and colors and insulation materials as original, but uses
the well-proven spiral-wound construction that you find in wires such as
Accel and Jacobs. Much lower resistance, but no irritating radio noise.
They also have a lifetime guarantee and don't cost more than regular
(NAPA, etc.) carbon-string type wires. The Slant-6 wire set (32605 for
pre-75) even has the correct 1-piece moulded spark plug boots. Note,
these wires are also sold under the BorgWarner/BWD KoolWire trade name.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
C2. Anything from pollution to loss of power (val...@mordor.com <Dave>)
This may be caused by leaking vacuum hoses or idiot mechanics
disconnecting your vacuum hoses. If you like to breathe, and you want
your car to perform well, replace all of the vacuum hose -- it costs
maybe 10 cents per foot, so don't be cheap. Just get a few yards and do
it one day (warning: you may need different kinds or sizes). Make sure
all vacuum hoses are straight and not kinked. On later cars, the
computer relies on vacuum; on earlier ones, the carb feedback and timing
depends on it. So make sure it works right. A good vacuum gauge doesn't
hurt, either.
Vacuum leaks caused by leaking hoses that look okay to the naked eye may
result in the following diagnoses by mechanics:
* Need new carburetor
* Need new transmission
* Need new engine
* Need valve job
* Need new mechanic.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
C3. Stalling (val...@mordor.com <Dave>)
See the above section on vacuum hoses. Turning the cold or warm idle
screw on the carburetor is a quick fix that doesn't solve the root
problem. If the car stalls when cold, lubricate the choke well. If it
stalls when wet, try getting much better ignition wires (8 mm, lifetime
warranty, good brand, about $30). Also try the following interesting
quick fixes:
* Put window insulating tape (foam) over the top of the electronic
ignition module
* Spray the little wires with silicone spray or wire drier
* Check for vacuum leaks (see above).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
C4. Windshield wipers won't work (val...@mordor.com):
Put window insulating tape (foam) over the top of the wiper motor.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
C5. Water leaks into the car:
A problem on many A-bodies (Valiant group). May be permanently solved by
(a) straightening out and emptying out the water exit hose, which drains
the cowl (the grille on top of the hood); and (b) keeping the cowl free
of leaves and gunk. This means occassionally raising the hood and
manually emptying the cowl opening. The little black tubes that carry
excess water out of there (2 of them) may be seen on the firewall (the
metal between the engine and the driver). Search for them. They're small
and behind other stuff. I might add that other makes, including Japanese
cars, also sometimes have this problem (as well as vacuum leaks).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
C6. runs rough cold, seems to improve with heat
geo...@bnr.ca (George Young) suggests:
1) Not enough voltage from old damp coil to light cold mixture? - new
coil.
2) EGR valve plunger binding open?
- remove and plug manifold vacuum hose to EGR circuit.
3) Other vacuum hose split?
- replace all vac hoses.
val...@mordor.com adds: 1) Better wires, CC rotor/distributor cap for
best fit.
geo...@bnr.ca (George Young) adds: My old 318 ran rough when cold and
wet, would stall out until warm. Choke was the problem. Manifold
carboned up and wouldn't pass heat to choke coil thermostat. Changed to
manual choke and no more problem and increased gas mileage
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
C7. Lean-Burn (computer-controlled carbureted engine) rough idle
boh...@usgp1.ih.att.com (-Bodnar,B.L.) writes: My recollection is that
this system controlled air/fuel mixture only. (318 Lean Burn)
1). Are your coolant temperature sensor connection ok? If not, the
computer will see a cold engine and will operate it in open loop (i.e.,
rich).
2). Are the oxygen sensor connections ok?
3). Is the heated air inlet operating correctly?
4). Vacuum leaks present? Check all vacuum hoses with a religious
fervor!
The leak's location many not even be obvious!
5). Carburetor problems: float low? valve seat damage? I doubt the
latter since it appears that the problem arose quite suddenly. The
following is something I've used on computer-controlled carbureted
engines many times: 1). Connect a high impedance dwell meter to the
mixture control solenoid, set the meter to the 6 cylinders scale, run
the engine around 2000 rpm until hot and see the dwell. If the a/f
mixture's ok, you'll see the dwell oscillating about 30 degrees. Low
dwell with oscillations => a/f mixture lean and running closed loop.
High dwell with oscillations => a/f mixture rich and running closed
loop. Dwell at or below 10 degrees => system stuck lean. Dwell at or
above 50 degrees => system stuck rich. The latter two extremes indicate
closed loop operation since open loop operation typical will show a
stable dwell reading between 20 and 30 degrees (usually, closer to 20).
Do not do this test at idle since some engines will be operated in open
loop at idle REGARDLESS of the coolant temperature sensor's output.
Incidently, I've just outlined the procedure for GM's "System
Performance Test" which is used on GM C3 carbureted engines.
*****************************FUNNY NOISES *********************
1. Herbert DaSilva <h...@swl.msd.ray.com> writes:
(Problem: Noise happens on left hand turns and some bumps. Was
originally chirping noise, but now more of a rumble. More frequent. Car:
1987 Shadow 2.2, five-speed, 110K miles.)
Isolate the problem with the following test:
- Select an off-ramp or empty parking lot where you can attain some
velocity while maintaining a left hand turn when the noise is evident.
- Clutch in or slip the tranny into neutral and pump the gas pedal to
rev the engine. If the noise does not change tone when the engine is
revved, the problem is in your driveline. If the noise changes tone
with the speed of the engine, the passenger side engine mount has
probably collapsed.
**
I think I had this problem too. It was a bad motor mount. I put in a
new CV joint before I found the real problem. (james eldridge)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Dakota creak
my truck had a loud "creak" while driving. I found that there is a
cover plate, between the converter and the truck body, directly under
the front drivers seat, that flexes under use. This causes a loud
noise. Once found, the fix was easy-stuff something between the plate
and the body. [Robert Duggan]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. 2.5 liter knock/idle
Some cars may have a cold engine knock a few seconds after startup,
lasting about 3-5 minutes -- most noticable at 2,000 - 2,500 rpm. Sounsd
like valve lifter or tappet noise. Noise loudest when weather colder.
Usually disappears when the car is warm.
OR
Cold idle rough util coolant reaches 50-60 degrees F.
-- TSB 09-06-93 provides for replacement of the Powertrain Control
Module (the computer). (<valiant>)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. Snapping noise on start/stop
Noise comes from the left side of the engine while starting from or
coming to a stop. Noise more prevalent when engine comaprtment hot.
Diagnosis: With windows closed, trans in drive or first and parking
brake on, put a load onto the gas. Release the load and shift into
reverse. Listen for the noise as you apply a load in reverse. If you
can't hear it, drive at low speeds with several quick, but not hard,
acceleration/deceleration moves. Parts requried: left engine support.
Time: .6 hours (from TSB 09-02-93).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. Daytona rattle
Christopher Sennett Homer sez: When you open the rear hatch you will
see
two black plastic screw things with rubber bushings on the bottom of
them, located at the rear corners on the hatch. When the hatch is
closed
it rests on these bushings, now if one, or both, of them are too short
then the hatch pivots on the latch and rattles, so just take some
pliers
and unscrew the plasic bushings a little to extend them. that should
clear up that hatch rattle.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. Metallic banging during 2-1 downshift when stopping
Jim Zimmerman had this in his Caravan. There was a TSB on this, but
the
dealer said "you have to complain LOUDLY. The service guy called it
the
'post shift bang' "
------------------------------------------------------------------------
7. Whining or whistling noises
(affects most FWD vehicles from 89-94).
Jim Zimmerman said TSB 21-40-93, affecting most FWD vehicles from 1989
to 1994, covers this. I did some research. This noise comes from the
transmission of the FWD cars and minivans, with automatic "transaxles
built with 3.02 or 3.22 final drive gear ratios. 1994 model year
vehicles must have a transaxle code prior to 1826 for this bulletin to
apply." This is a 7 hour job and replaces MANY parts.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
8. Rattle from back of car
val...@mordor.com (Dave) sez: The screws that hold the trim onto the
hatchback (eg. the extra brake light) tend to come loose and fall off.
They cost 22 cents, so get a couple of extras. I had to order them...P/N
to follow.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
9. Rattles from engine compartment
On a 2.2, the big plastic hood covering the air cleaner lost a
hold-down
bolt, and now has a huge rubber band holding it down to keep it from
buzzing at some RPMs. The air injection tube into the catalytic
converter has a filter which used to buzz against the firewall VERY
LOUDLY until I relocated it.
These engines produce a lot of vibration, and there are a lot of hoses
and gismos nearly touching each other. Someone will have to poke her
head inside the engine compartment while an assistant revs up the
engine through the RPM's that it makes noise, and try to isolate the
noise producer. The safer way is to shut the engine off and see if
you
can rattle anything with your hand. Also, look for any broken hose or
wire brackets. (Jim Van Damme)
==================================================================
*********WHICH CARS ARE IN WHICH CATEGORY?**********
(this list is incomplete)
Modern: 600, Aries, Reliant, Duster, Sundance, Shadow, Spirit, Acclaim,
Daytona, Laser, Caravan, Voyager, Dakota, Ram, Charger, Turismo, O24,
Omni, Horizon, LeBaron, Ramcharger, Lancer, Neon, Stratus, Cirrus,
Intrepid, Concorde, Vision, Avenger
Classic: Valiant, Swinger, Dart, Duster, Demon, Aspen, Volare, Fury,
Monaco, Gran Fury, Diplomat, Charger, Cordoba, 300 (all letters),
Superbird, Roadrunner, Satellite, Challenger, DeSoto, Barracuda, 'Cuda,
Trailduster, Lancer, Polara, Belvedere, GTX, Charger Daytona, Newport,
Magnum, Mirada, St. Regis, Newport, Super Bee, Li'l Red Express Truck
Some cars overlap.
Mitsubishi/Joint Venture: Colt, Arrow, Sapparo, Talon, Laser, l'il
Challenger.
Hillman Avenger: Plymouth Cricket (not covered by FAQ)
Query: Which names would you like to see revived? Send via-email. My own
favorites: Valiant, Fury, Duster, Roadrunner, and Reliant...but on cars
where they fit! (Wouldn't a turbo Neon be a perfect Roadrunner? Beep
beep!
- Jeffrey J. Wieland adds: I want a Challenger! I want a Challenger!
They've got the perfect engine now, the Magnum 5.9L. Just like it was
the perfect engine
for the Challeger back in 1974... It could be sort of a mini-Viper...
******************* LONG STORY **********************
From psch...@indiana.edu (Paul F. Schikora)
I had the Dodge 2.2 Turbo I engine with a 3000 RPM idle problem. I
finally solved it and decided to post my findings. It turned out to be
the AIS after all. The AIS controls the idle speed by letting air
bypass the throttle plate. All it is is a valve that opens up to let
add'l air into the throttle body. It has a semi-circular opening, with
a semi-circular shutter that opens or closes to allow air to bypass the
throttle plate.
The shutter is designed to rotate 180 degrees, and then it hits a stop
to keep it from rotating any further. The shutter sits inside a
circular sleeve, and the sleeve is what's turned by the motor. The
sleeve holds the shutter snugly enough to turn it when it's free to
move, but the sleeve can continue to move when the shutter has stopped,
so the motor won't burn out accidently.
Not only is the shutter designed to rotate, it is spring loaded, so it
can be pressed down into the motor housing. Doing so makes a closed
shutter effectively useless, becasue air can bypass it. This is only
conjecture on my part, but I believe the spring is there to allow air
bypass even if the shutter is closed, *IF* there is enough of a pressure
differential in the throttle body to force the shutter down into the
housing and let air bypass it, perhaps to avoid other damage.
There is one flaw with this design -- when the shutter is depressed, it
is possible for it to be moved past its stops. If that happens, and the
shutter then pops back up, it gets locked 180 degrees out of phase.
When the computer tries to close it, it is actually opening it. It will
keep trying to close it until it opens full up, and then your idle is
racing at 3000 RPMs. The computer keeps trying to close the shutter,
but since it's wide open, there's not enough pressure differential to
force the shutter back down so it can again go past the stops into its
normal position.
This is apparently what happened to mine. For all I could tell, the
motor worked fine. Applying voltage to it opened and closed the
shutter, only I couldn't tell that it was out of phase, opening when it
should close and vice versa.
What compounded my problem was the fact that the shutter was gunked up
with carbon and sticking in the sleeve. So it got stuck down and stayed
there, allowing it to easily pass the stops. The computer didn't know
what was happening! Eventually, it popped out enough to lock into an
out of phase position. That's when the problem wouldn't go away. I
finally figured it out when I noticed a rattle in the motor, and that
the shutter was moving up & down slightly as I shook it. I was so fed
up at that point that I ignored the service manual advice to the
contrary, and took apart the AIS. No, I didn't ruin it -- it's a pretty
simple design. I cleaned the parts and got the shutter to where it
wasn't binding in the sleeve anymore. I then reassembled it (praying I
had it in phase, which I did) and everything was fine (if it still
raced, I would have taken it apart and reassembled 180 degrees around).
After "fixing" the problem, I went for a test drive. Everything was OK
for a few minutes, but then the damn racing returned !#%*#@! Back to
the garage where I found the following (warning -- more conjecture
coming). In the top of the throttle body, there are two add'l ways for
a air to bypass the throttle plate. One is an orifice which is
controlled by a set screw (idel set screw?). A while back I was fooling
around and apparently had closed off the orifice -- some carbon gunking
didn't help either. Running the engine at various speeds created the
pressure differential needed (which couldn't be compensated for by the
closed off orifice), and the AIS shutter passed its stops again. I
backed the screw off, re-fixed the AIS, and got the engine running
again. I then sprayed some carb cleaner into that orifice. No problems
since then -- what a pleasure to have a properly functioning vehicle
again! The second air bypass is a small hole in the side of the throttle
opening just above the plate. It had some carbon buildup too, so I
sprayed it out as well. (Yes, I know, I should use throttle body
cleaner. I just didn't have any handy.)
******************
45. Turbo engine cutout/power loss//driveability
DRIVEABILITY STORY
I have an '85 Omni GLH Turbo, and last weekend decided to spend my
annual ritual of eliminating driveability problems. The most irritating
was the engine cutting out under hard acceleration, virtually breaking
motor mounts. The second problem, I've been loosing acceleration, about
10%, though I generally keep the car tuned.
The first problem, the engine cutting out syndrome, baffled me. I
only could think of the worst, severe engine wear, since there is
156K on the motor. Specifically, the engine tended to buck when
accelerating after entering the freeway. One of the systems I lacked
knowledge, was the barometric reed solenoid. Most the information I
came across just said that the computer read the atmospheric pressure
occasionally. I read all technical info. I could at the library, and
finally came across a description in the Chrysler shop manual. The
point that struck me is that the barametric reed solenoid is in line
with the MAP sensor. I thought there was another sensor somewhere I
didn't know about. It goes onto say that the computer reads the
atmospheric pressure at a specified rpm (no doubt low rpm, when
there is a vacuum in the intake manifold, so why not read the
atmospheric pressure for added information that might allow for
tailoring fuel/air mixture and turbo boost levels), when the
accelerator is closed (I guess not depressed), and no more than
every 30 seconds. Another symptom of the engine bucking, is that
it only occured after I started accelerating again, it would
occur about that same time, same speed, and same frequency (it
would happen twice), then go away.
Now I was onto something. A few years back, I had a severe cold start
up problem. First, it would hardly start, then the motor would idle
at 3K rpm, for a few minutes. Then, things returned to normal. I
took it to the dealer, they did work recommended in a TSB, they added
the external MAP sensor kit. I found out the next cold snap (-15)
that didn't fix the problem. Brought it back, they finally found
a crack in a vacuum line, which sucked in water, which froze...
Anyway, after learning about the reed solenoid function, I immediately
inspected this MAP sensor circuit. Low and behold, with my new
knowledge, I immediately noticed that the MAP sensor was hooked to
the solenoid, and the other ends connected back to the computer
(expected) and to another vacuum line (not expected). I would
expect the third port of the solenoid to be unconnected, so when
the solenoid is grounded, the MAP sensor would read atmospheric
pressure. Instead, it was sucking on this mysterous vacuum line.
It turns out it went only about 1ft, and was capped. When I got
home, I tested it for holding vacuum, and it did. The bucking
hasn't returned.
BTW - I still don't understanding the bucking phenominon, was the
turbo over-boosting? I didn't get any weird error messages.
Well I still couldn't beat an old 0-60 benchmark of 8 sec. Something
was still wrong. I re-checked compression, 115 lb+. No vacuum
leaks, EGR works, new cap/roter/plugs/air filter/fuel filter, un-
plugged cat/exhaust (had this tested - btw, the original exhaust,
MN salt has not eroded the stainless yet!). The only error code
I'm aware of is some fault with the EGR solenoid (I had previously
looked at this, I checked everything, vacuum lines, new back
pressure transducer - another story, but concluded the computer is
confused). So I researched where the heck the charge air sensor was.
The theory being that I knew the plugs looked light grey/brown (perfect
according to charts, but when the car was new, the plugs would always
look black/sooting, from a rich mixture). One would assume if the
computer thought the air was warmer than it really was, that
it would lean the fuel/air mixture some, and perhaps alter the
turbo boost curve.
On the GLH, it is located on top of the intake manifold, right
next to the detonation sensor. It is a "2-way" sensor that screws
in. I belive it is identical to the coolant sensor. I unscrewed
it, and it was filthy. It also was bubbling on top, looked as
though it was melting at some point. Lots of heat sneaks up that
path, since the exhaust manifold is right below it.
I found Napa sells one for $17, is called out for all other c-cars
other than Omni's. I bought one. This looked like a better
sensor - it was mostly brass. The stock unit was plastic. I had
trouble screwing the new one in, I don't think it got mis-threaded,
I'm not leaking fuel anyway.
Net result - seems like boost comes on quicker, and I have more
acceleration. I suspect I'm back to where I was several years ago,
will have to verify when I get the chance. I also noticed that
when the engine is cold, rpm's stay up longer. Another driveability
problem went away - the tendancy to stall after going out of gear
while still moving.
Conclusion - another example that Dodge Sevice technicians can't
read pictures, and sensors can change calibration enough to affect
driveability/performace, yet not trigger an error on the diagnostic
computer (read this soft-head auto firmware engineers). Since my
computer is no longer capable of driving the power loss lamp (does
anyone have a clue how the computer can tell that it can no longer
drive the lamp? It can't, but the shop who tested the cat/muffler
restriction diag. tool indicated the pwr loss circuit failure...)
I can't verify if the charge sensor fixed the EGR message, it is
possible somehow the computer can infer the EGR valve operation
based on the charge temperature. Instead of shot-gunning the
computer malfunction (no doubt a transistor/driver somewhere), I
may break down and purchase the Mopar modified computer, for $159,
which if I recall, dropped about $100 in price since I looked last.
(Allen Middleton)
natalia...@gmail.com
.
> 92 chrysler labaron runs hot on interstate at speeds over 55mph had it put on diatonic machine and it shows no problem. What can be the issue
and can only model an engine that is out of tune ;^)
Scott Dorsey
>92 chrysler labaron runs hot on interstate at speeds over 55mph had it put on diatonic machine and it shows no problem. What can be the issue
Either the cooling system isn't getting rid of heat fast enough, or the engine
is producing too much heat.
The cooling system is simple; coolant circulates through tubes and picks up
heat in one place and releases it someplace else. All problems have to do
with the coolant not moving properly or airflow past the radiator being
impaired and preventing it from being released.
So... look at all the things that can cause poor coolant circulation. Pull
the thermostat out and put it in hot water and make sure it opens properly,
or just replace it since it's cheap to replace and a pain to test. Check
the water pump. Look in the radiator to see nothing is plugged up. Feel
the radiator to make sure it's heating evenly (if not, some lines are plugged
up). Check the hoses to make sure they aren't collapsing.
If you're sure the thermostat, hoses, and pump are good, you could try an
acid flush to remove deposits plugging things up. The thing about this,
though, is that you may find that your water pump, radiator, or head gasket
are held together entirely by rust and deposits and when the rust and deposits
are removed, they start leaking suddenly. So there is some risk involved in
that.
For the most part, it's cheaper to prevent these problems by changing the
coolant every year than it is to fix them.
Now... on the other side... if your timing is screwed up, your engine can
be running too hot for the cooling system. Or if the engine is running far
to lean. I'd think that with a modern engine the computer control would be
pitching errors right and left if this were the case, but if the cooling
system is absolutely perfect, it might be worth checking timing and mixture
by hand to make sure.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
.
also lead to higher than normal coolant temperatures.
JR
THE COLONEL, Ph.D
news:21308981-4036-4d0d...@googlegroups.com...
92 chrysler labaron runs hot on interstate at speeds over 55mph had it put
on diatonic machine and it shows no problem. What can be the issue
punctuation.
What about that?
lornes...@gmail.com
Paul in Houston TX
Scott Dorsey
<lornes...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Not firing
Check to make sure the engine hasn't been stolen.
