Broken Water Pump Bolt on 5.0 Ford
Chuck
Based on the number for postings it appears as though this is a fairly
common problem.
The broken piece is buried - I can't get to it to weld on a nut, use vise
grips etc.
I "think" my only option is to drill it out and use a Helicoil....
Other than making sure I drill straight what else should I be concerned
with?
Anyone else think of a "better" solution (other than "buy a Chevy"!)
Mike Romain
I have good success by center punching and then drilling a small pilot
hole just off center of the broken bolt first, then I use a drill bit
that is about 2/3 or 3/4 the size of the bolt and run that down the
pilot hole. I use lots of cutting oil.
I try to aim it so it 'just' tags the bolt's thread bottom down one edge
of the bolt leaving me with a hollow 3/4 moon shape. The heat and oil
and little nip out of one edge has always loosened the bolt enough for
me to back it out. I use an old torx bit lots of times as a hole
grabber or I can spin it with a punch or mini screwdriver.
I have been lucky and never have needed a helicoil or had the new bolt
come loose. I normally use loctite thread sealer on the new one
though. It stops more corrosion.
I also have seen folks with a cutting torch just blow the bolts out of
the cast block. They were good enough a new bolt fit ok after a bit of
thread cleaning. I would want to practice that a bunch on junk
first....
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
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Chuck
the problem is the bolt that broke is buried about 3" down inside the front
of the front cover.... the actual hole is recessed so I can't even see the
bolt to drill a pilot hole. I'm hoping that the recess will let me guide the
drill straight down the middle of the bolt.
I have zero hope that I can get the old bolt out... I'm just hoping I can
get the Helicoil in!
"Mike Romain" <rom...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:445B6728...@sympatico.ca...
Mike Romain
I don't think I would attempt that. The bolts are hardened and the
cover is likely soft metal. I think it would walk out on me....
If that is the/a bolt that goes into the water jacket, well....
I think I would cuss a lot and take the cover off or loosen it so it can
be rotated out of the way.
Good luck!
Mike
Kevin
"Chuck" <cjdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:T0J6g.32376$P2.3...@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
Been there plenty times on that model. My best success was to remove the
timing cover and work with the broken bolt protruding from the block. PB
blaster, heat, hammering on the end of the bolt, and working it back and
forth has usually done the trick. Couple of times the galling between the
bolt and the timing cover would just not let go and a new cover was required
after having to break the old one off. So far I have always gotten the bolt
out of the block once the cover was removed.
--
Kevin Mouton
Automotive Technology Instructor
"If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy"
Red Green
bob
drill bit the same size as the hole or slightly smaller. Koil, heat and
drill and it may grab it and back it out. Machine shops will often have
left hand drills. Sears has a set of tools made to back out screws and one
may be the right size and long enough to reach the top of the bolt. Just
something to consider.
bobby
"Chuck" <cjdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:T0J6g.32376$P2.3...@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
swimdad16
bolt sticking out.... I'm been spraying it with Kroil and I'm going to try
heat and a pipe wrench later this week....
--
"bob" <b...@no-spam.com> wrote in message
news:e3oveg$2le$1...@home.itg.ti.com...
N8N
have to) that is exactly the size of the hole that the bolt is buried
in and punch the s**t out of it, so the drill bit doesn't walk on you.
Then have at it. Once you get up to the "tap drill" size for the
thread you are using you should be close enough to the threads to clear
the swarf out with a tap. I had to do this on three (!!!!!) of the
water manifold bolts on my Stude V-8 because some unspeakable bad
person had used cheezy grade-2 bolts to hold it on (not factory, Stude
used grade-5 hardware universally, at a minimum.) Amazingly enough, I
didn't have to use a single helicoil, new bolts torqued to spec with
the old block threads. But if you follow my advice above, you should
get the holes close enough for helicoils to work if you have to. Might
have to buy an extra helicoil tap if the hole is blind, so you can
modify it into a "bottoming helicoil tap." Make sure you Loctite the
helicoils in so you don't create a headache for some future mechanic,
and also remember that anti-sleaze is your friend.
USE GOOD DRILL BITS! anything else is a waste of your time. Might
need to buy some new ones.
I ended up pulling the radiator in my car so that I could get a
straight shot at the bolts with my big 1/2" hand drill. You might have
to do the same, it will certainly make your life easier though. Since
you are apparently replacing the water pump, I would assume that you
already have the fan off. (in my case, I was not so lucky - I was just
trying to stop some water leaks and tried tightening down a bolt to
stop a gasket from weeping. Once I broke the first one I stopped right
there and tried to replace them all with new, good stainless bolts -
I'm a stainless junkie - but broke two more trying to remove them. You
win some, you lose some.)
good luck (you'll need it, although I can't say that I fear this job
anymore, I still can't actually say that I enjoy it.)
nate
PS - of course, after I did this, I ended up pulling the engine,
tearing it down, and finding out that I wasn't going to use that block
anyway because the bores were worn. But such is life.
PPS - I have never had any luck blowing out busted off bolts/studs with
a cutting torch. I have tried that on exhaust manifolds (last ditch
effort to save them) and have never had any luck, I must not have the
magic touch. I'm not saying that it can't be done, just that I can't
do it.
N8N
Hope it works for you. You could also try threading the stub with a
die, threading a nut halfway on, and welding the nut to the stub to
give you some more grunt on it. If it's not *too* badly stuck the heat
from welding may help loosen it.
Another trick that I have used in the past is to heat the stub up with
a torch and melt a cheap candle by pressing it against the stub. The
heat will draw the melted candle wax into the threads. Sounds crazy
but it has worked where Kroil has failed.
If all else fails, grind it flush with the block, center punch, and
drill per my previous post.
good luck,
nate
Steve
> the problem is the bolt that broke is buried about 3" down inside the front
> of the front cover.... the actual hole is recessed so I can't even see the
> bolt to drill a pilot hole. I'm hoping that the recess will let me guide the
> drill straight down the middle of the bolt.
>
> I have zero hope that I can get the old bolt out... I'm just hoping I can
> get the Helicoil in!
>
I'm trying to remember exactly how the front of a Ford 302 of that
vivntage is set up (the last one I actually owned was a '68)... IIRC,
the water pump bolts to a timing case, and the timing case bolts to the
front of the engine block ala small-block Mopar. If that's the case,
just pull the whole timing cover off and either replace it or
drill/helicoil it on the workbench. More hassle, but at least the job
will come out right in the end.
If I'm mis-remembering and you're talking about actually goes all the
way into the engine block, I'd still remove the timing case for better
access, and you might find that it snapped where it passes thru the
timing case and that enough is sticking out of the block to allow you to
get vice-grips on it.
swimdad16
the right answer was DEFINITELY to remove the timing chain cover. Trying to
drill through to remove the bolt would have cause a lot more damage.
Removing the timing chain cover revealed about 1/2 inch of the bolt.
Patience, heat and Kroil penetrating oil made the job "easy". It took a lot
of time but there was no damage to the block.
"Chuck" <cjdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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