Want to buy a wheel balancer, el cheapo static bubble type okay?
Dude
I buy a new set of tires, price includes one time mounting and balancing.
Tires are wonderfully stable for about 10,000 miles, then they start going out
of balance.
I pay to get them rebalanced, it doesn't eliminate the vibration completely and
progressively gets worse for the next 5,000 miles. Vibration generally starts
at my freeway cruising speed of 65 MPH.
Repeat the above every once in a while until it comes time to buy a new set of
tires (usually around 50K).
I currently have 4 vehicles - they all do this. I use different tire shops and
none seem to be very good at rebalancing a tire. Sometimes I get the "lifetime
rebalancing" package but the vibration will usually never be eliminated.
I haven't yet run across a deal on a dynamic balancer to purchase for home use
(almost bought a $799 Snap On on Ebay) and am thinking of trying out one of the
static wheel balancers (the bubble level type).
How well do they do the job? I hear Indy cars use this (or is it Nascar) and
their tires are quite wide. I have:
205 55R16
205 60R15
155 R12 and
185 R14
Will I be served well with a static type wheel balancer?
Dude
Bleem (New!)
Dude <rosal...@mailexpire.com> wrote:
>Here's my life story:
>
>I buy a new set of tires, price includes one time mounting and balancing.
>
>Tires are wonderfully stable for about 10,000 miles, then they start going
>out of balance.
>
>I pay to get them rebalanced, it doesn't eliminate the vibration completely
>and progressively gets worse for the next 5,000 miles. Vibration generally
>starts at my freeway cruising speed of 65 MPH.
>
>Repeat the above every once in a while until it comes time to buy a new set
>of tires (usually around 50K).
>
>I currently have 4 vehicles - they all do this. I use different tire shops
>and none seem to be very good at rebalancing a tire. Sometimes I get the
>"lifetime rebalancing" package but the vibration will usually never be
>eliminated.
Bubble balancers actually work well, but try to use two weights, each half
the needed weight, and put one on the inside.
Maybe you need to have your tires fixed with a dynamic force grinder. This
isn't like the old style tire lathe is a device that runs the tire against a
roller and measures the bumpiness, then it removes only an ounce or two of
rubber overall from the stiff areas. I believe that www.tires.com and
www.tirerack.com describe this and offer such service.
Are there any problems with your ball joints? Could some brake rotors be
unbalanced and require on-the-car tire balancing with an old strobe type
spin balancer?
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Rex Burkheimer
Works fine at 120 mph.
Goodyear uses them to balance race tires at the SCCA Runoffs, cars that run
180 mph.
--
Rex Burkheimer
Parts Plus Marketing Director WM Automotive Whse., Fort Worth TX
It's not about who controls the money, it's about who controls the
information" Ben Kingsley, "Sneakers"
"Dude" <rosal...@mailexpire.com> wrote in message
news:3b90c1ab...@newswest.newscene.com...
George Jefferson
:I use an old bubble balancer to balance my race car (and street car) tires.
:Works fine at 120 mph.
:Goodyear uses them to balance race tires at the SCCA Runoffs, cars that run
:180 mph.
I guess what you gain with a spin balance doesnt affect performance(?).
(surely the racers are not worried about some tiny vibration for
comfort sake..)
The.Central.Scr...@invalid.pobox.com
Plus, I think the tires are of high enough quality to make dynamic balancing
less a need. Plus they should have hubs and wheels that are also precise
enough not to require balancing.
Nathan Nagel
AFAIK the speed range where dynamic balancing gives you the most effect
is about 60-80 MPH for most normal tire diameters... if you're going
faster than that it's not a big deal.
I personally have no experience with wheeel balancing other than a
customer, and I can say that care in doing the job right makes a big
difference.... I've gotten undriveable cars from shops with equipment
that looked completely up to date and high tech. (do a google search
for my recent experiences with my girlfriend's Corrado... lack of
hubcentric rings and improper wheel bolt torque with the wrong lug bolts
make a *BIG* difference... had to figure that out myself though, Sears
thought it was "good enough" to push out the door...)
nate
Nate
Nathan Nagel wrote in message <3B8E819A...@earthlink.net>...
> (do a google search
>for my recent experiences with my girlfriend's Corrado... lack of
>hubcentric rings and improper wheel bolt torque with the wrong lug bolts
>make a *BIG* difference... had to figure that out myself though, Sears
>thought it was "good enough" to push out the door...)
Consider yourself lucky - on my last trip to Sears they didn't even tighten
the lug nuts. Now there was some vibration!
I don't know jack about balancing wheels - only disks in a hard drive (ala
Maxtor Corp.) I don't think you can say balancing is only effective 60-80
MPH, but I concur with the thought. You won't feel much vibration at very
low or very high speeds for a wheel that is less than grossly out of
balance.
The bubble balancers are so cheap - why not give it a try just for fun?
With this method, I guess I would make sure to mix placement of the
counterweights between the inner and outer sections of the rim.
- Nate
Nathan Nagel
>
> Nathan Nagel wrote in message <3B8E819A...@earthlink.net>...
>
> > (do a google search
> >for my recent experiences with my girlfriend's Corrado... lack of
> >hubcentric rings and improper wheel bolt torque with the wrong lug bolts
> >make a *BIG* difference... had to figure that out myself though, Sears
> >thought it was "good enough" to push out the door...)
>
> Consider yourself lucky - on my last trip to Sears they didn't even tighten
> the lug nuts. Now there was some vibration!
Hmm, you're lucky. Most of the bolts I had to use a cheater pipe over
my big 2' breaker bar to get off. The rear wheels I had to chock with
bricks, even with the full weight of the car on the tires and the
(admittedly weak VW disc) parking brake on I could spin the wheels
before the lugs broke loose. I was not a happy camper. I can only
imagine what happens to someone who doesn't do any work on their own car
when they get a wheel balance at Sears and then get a flat tire down the
road.
Let's just say I'm glad I've found another alignment shop that will work
on modified cars.
>
> I don't know jack about balancing wheels - only disks in a hard drive (ala
> Maxtor Corp.) I don't think you can say balancing is only effective 60-80
> MPH, but I concur with the thought. You won't feel much vibration at very
> low or very high speeds for a wheel that is less than grossly out of
> balance.
That's the theory, and in practice the 60-80 MPH figure is what I've
heard. I have noticed that wheels that are not grossly unbalanced but
still not perfectly balanced really only make themselves evident over
about 45-50 MPH on my car, and the tires are a bit smaller in overall
diameter than that of the average full sized car... over about 80ish
the vibrations do seem to become less intrusive, although I try not to
drive too fast or too far on unbalanced wheels because I don't want to
prematurely wear my wheel bearings, tie rods, etc.
nate
Dude
Is a static bubble balancer good enough to see a 1/4 ounce weight imbalance?
What brand balancer do you use?
Thanks.
Dude
On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:18:04 -0500, "Rex Burkheimer" <r...@wmautomotive.com>
wrote:
Jos Bergervoet
>> Consider yourself lucky - on my last trip to Sears they didn't even tighten
>> the lug nuts. Now there was some vibration!
> Hmm, you're lucky. Most of the bolts I had to use a cheater pipe over
> my big 2' breaker bar to get off. The rear wheels I had to chock with
> bricks, even with the full weight of the car on the tires and the
In my experience that's the case with all shops. They all use
pneumatic tools to fasten the nuts. They sure fasten them
thoroughly (they probably think that's better than facing a
liability suit from some lawyer when a wheel comes off :-)
> ... I can only
> imagine what happens to someone who doesn't do any work on their own car
> when they get a wheel balance at Sears and then get a flat tire down the
> road.
No problem. If they don't do _any_ work on their car then they
are not going to change the tire anyway.
-- Jos
Hey Paizano
>pneumatic tools to fasten the nuts. They sure fasten them
>thoroughly (they probably think that's better than facing a
>liability suit from some lawyer when a wheel comes off :-)
yea they seem to enjoy snapping my wheel studs on me!
AGloop
As someone who does a lot of tire work, in addition to service work, I am both
mildly offended and saddened that so many people think poorly about auto shops
in general.
However, I am also aware there are more than a few incompetent shops and
technicians that help maintain this image. But anyone who knows that "time =
money" is aware that this is big business, and it is all about profit and
efficiency. Its also a two way street. There are plenty of crooked customers
who use false accusations and lawsuits to get repairs done for nothing too.
At Firestone, yes we do use pneumatic tools to fasten lug nuts when replacing
wheels only. However, our shops use "Torque Sticks", which are specially
designed sockets that will only twist up to a specific torque range when used
properly. My particular shop gets a new set of sticks every year. I have
checked the accuracy of our shop sticks against a torque wrench, and found them
to be adequately accurate.
The time saved by using torque sticks versus a torque wrench can be 5-10
minutes for a 4 wheel job. That adds up to quite a bit when stretched out over
a full days work.
In regards to the balancing question, it is simple physics that static
balancing and dynamic balancing are NOT the same. I do agree that a statically
balanced wheel may not cause an unacceptable vibration when in use, however I
question anyone who thinks they can surpass the accuracy of an accurately
calibrated computerized balancer with a bubble balance.
For the cost of a computerized balance, the investment in a bubble balance and
weights for the average consumer is highly questionable.
My advice to all is to find a COMPETENT shop. ASK questions. ASK if the
technicians have ASE credentials or have been properly trained. ASK if the
balance machine has been recently calibrated. ASK if the techs use torque
sticks on the lug nuts. Most good shops will be happy to answer these questions
for you.
Finally to the original poster, if you continue to have vibrational problems
every 5,000 miles perhaps there is another underlying problem with your vehicle
that should be investigated.
Kind Regards,
Mike
ASE CMAT
Nathan Nagel
Mike,
you are absolutely correct. The problem is that the most convenient and
visible shops are often the ones that do a halfassed job. In my case I
took a couple cars to Sears because they were the only shop local to me
that would do an alignment on a lowered vehicle. After the whole
Corrado incident I was motivated to take my business elsewhere. I found
a Discount Tire that does a decent job of wheel balancing and does use
proper methods to torque wheels. I also found a frame shop that does
alignments on just about anything - last time I was there there was a
full race Challenger on one of their racks. I did have to make a few
phone calls to "discover" these places and now I have to take cars 2
different places, both farther away than Sears (and in opposite
directions.)
It's still worth it, and I'm glad I bothered.
nate
Jos Bergervoet
>>>In my experience that's the case with all shops. They all use
>>>pneumatic tools to fasten the nuts. They sure fasten them
>>>thoroughly (they probably think that's better than facing a
>>>liability suit from some lawyer when a wheel comes off :-)
>>
>>yea they seem to enjoy snapping my wheel studs on me!
> As someone who does a lot of tire work, in addition to service work, I am both
> mildly offended and saddened that so many people think poorly about auto shops
> in general.
Sorry Mike, if I offended you. (Actually I already tried to help you
by putting the blame on the lawyers :-)
-- Jos
re...@mailandnews.com
wrote:
>
>Mike,
>
>you are absolutely correct. The problem is that the most convenient and
>visible shops are often the ones that do a halfassed job. In my case I
>took a couple cars to Sears because they were the only shop local to me
>that would do an alignment on a lowered vehicle. After the whole
>Corrado incident I was motivated to take my business elsewhere. I found
>a Discount Tire that does a decent job of wheel balancing and does use
>proper methods to torque wheels. I also found a frame shop that does
>alignments on just about anything - last time I was there there was a
>full race Challenger on one of their racks. I did have to make a few
>phone calls to "discover" these places and now I have to take cars 2
>different places, both farther away than Sears (and in opposite
>directions.)
>
>It's still worth it, and I'm glad I bothered.
>
>nate
Sears Auto Center in Whitehall, PA is an example of a very convenient
mall location, but slow service and incompetent to work on vehicles.
* snapped 3 wheel studs off on a 2-year-old car during tire
replacement, had to argue with the manager to get them replaced at n/c
* 20 minutes wait in line to exchange a defective pair of shocks
(carry in, did the work myself in less time than the wait in line)
* Drove in a van that just picked up a nail-sized staple in driver's
side rear tire, which was losing air and hissing . "Driver's side
rear" was too complex a concept for Sears, they entered it in the
computer as right rear, the tech checked the tire for leaks "no leaks
found". The van was written up as ready and driven out to the pickup
area with the tire half-inflated. When I got back to pick it up the
tire was flat. Then they tell me the tire cant be fixed, but will be
replaced under road hazard warranty. Then they give me a bill for the
tire plus another road hazard warranty, and I have to wait around
another 10 minutes to dispute this with the manager. Over 4 hours of
my time wasted for a simple tire repair/replacement.
NEVER AGAIN SEARS AUTO CENTER. Have also considered purchase of my own
tire mounting and balancing equipment, for all the time and money
wasted having them done. One good reason for doing repairs yourself
when possible is that it usually beats doing time in the typical auto
service facilty's drab waiting room. Only problem is that tire
manufacturers only warranty tires mounted by "professional" tire
techs.
AGloop
>by putting the blame on the lawyers :-)
>
>-- Jos
No offense taken at all, Jos. I was simply stating that I take to heart the
general consensus that some people have towards all mechanics.
I sometimes dont know how to feel whenever I see one of those 60 Minutes
'stings' where some 'poor defenseless woman' is sent in to some hack shop with
a disconnected plug wire to get her car 'fixed' and ends up with piles of
inflated bullshit repairs. I want to feel good that the jackass shop owners are
busted on camera, but deep down I feel bad that 10 million nearsighted viewers
might just be programmed further into thinking all mechanics are crooked or
stupid. Its too bad. Although the media certainly means good by educating
consumer awareness, they need to remember that too much of today's news is 'bad
news', and not enough time is devoted to the "local honest tire guy". They are
partly to blame.
Mike
ASE CMAT
Alex Rodriguez
>In my experience that's the case with all shops. They all use
>pneumatic tools to fasten the nuts. They sure fasten them
>thoroughly (they probably think that's better than facing a
>liability suit from some lawyer when a wheel comes off :-)
there is a place in NJ called EuroTire that only uses torque wrenches
to install wheels. The air guns only run in reverse. The have a lounge
with large windows overlooking the work area so you can see them working
on your car.
-----------------
Alex __O
_-\<,_
(_)/ (_)