entering car without a key, stealing the signal

[micky]

On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
signal!

I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.

Another claims this can defeated by putting the keys in a faraday cage,
as if the fob was transmitting all the time. Or theyre referring to the
fob that doesn't require a key (what is that called?) Isn't the range of
that only a few feet? Even with the smallest yard, people inside have
their fob farther from their car than that, but someone else claims they
use an amplifier. Well that's back to the battery powered fob that does
nothing unless you push the button.

Another says that if you used the door lock switch on the door to lock
the car, this can't happen, but if you use the fob to lock the door it
can. I can see a possible difference in those two methods, but is it
actual/true? I always lock my car with the door switch just because
it's easier and you can do it befoe the door is shut, but I do often
then use the fob to turn off the headlights without its waiting 30
seconds.

I don't know if someone who doesn't live in the area and is also signed
up can read a nextdoor thread. Anyone know?

I would post the url but Nextdoor said there was one new post and
clicking on that made the thread disappear, so I search on stealing
the signal and the last hit was on the word "the"!!! It was shown
in bold and the other words didn't appear.


Also someoene says: I can't tell from posts here how the thieves are
getting into the cars that are parked on the streets. However if you
have one of the keyless entry systems you are vulnerable to what is
called a "relay" attack. There are a couple of variants but the car is
fooled into thinking there is either your legit key nearby when it isn't
or your key actually is nearby and the thief intercepts the signal. In
other words your car can be theoretically unlocked with your keys stored
in your house a modest distance away or when you're walking away from
your car in a parking lot.

I'm not sure how often each type of breach is occurring. Just because it
CAN happen doesn't mean there's an epidemic. However, if I had keyless
entry and was parking my car on the street I would have my keys stored
in an RF bag or box; they're simple to make.

-- this doesn't make sense to me.

[Idlehands]

We have had a rash of break-ins and thefts from locked vehicles in my
neighborhood, all the vehicles were newer cars with keyless start.

One person had doorbell video of it going on. We now have a nice
leather wrapped Faraday cage at the front door that my wife's keys are
stored in when she is home.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kz48x/guy-selling-relay-attack-keyless-repeaters-to-steal-cars

Explains the process quite well.

--
"Circuses struggle to find new clowns as top prospects continue to go
into politics"
dailysquat.com

[Retirednoguilt]

That's why my wife and I both still use anti-theft steering wheel bars.
Every time and every place we park. Thieves are generally not willing
to take the time to pick the locks on the bars or try to saw through
them and will move to an easier target. Takes only about 5 seconds for
us to unlock the bar and put it on the floor behind the passenger seat.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:08:56 -0600, Idlehands

<hide...@hushmail.com> wrote:

>On 2021-09-26 8:28 a.m., micky wrote:
>> On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
>> signal!
>>
>> I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
>> button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.

Must be the second one. I'm glad now I have the first one.

Thanks.

So it sounds like these things are transmitting all the time!! Another
problem seems to me to be, How long does their battery last?

[Idlehands]

In this area they are more likely to steal anything of value left in the
car then steal it, anti-theft bars are good but won't keep your
belongings safe when they can pop the locks.

Mind you I can't understand people who leave anything of value overnight
in their cars when parked in open driveways.

[Idlehands]

No idea, we haven't owned the car for over a year yet, the car will
announce you need a new battery when it's time.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <gdh1lg5jtue87og39...@4ax.com>, NONONOmisc07
@fmguy.com says...

>
> So it sounds like these things are transmitting all the time!! Another
> problem seems to me to be, How long does their battery last?
>
>
>

My Toyota manual says from one to two years. I change the batteries in
my 'key' every year when I get it inspected. Makes it easy to keep up
with that way.

[Scott Dorsey]

micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote:
>On NextDoor, someone claims a car can be unlocked by stealing the
>signal!
>
>I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
>button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.

They are conflating two different attacks. Both are very effective.

Cars are easy to steal. You can put a fancier lock on your car, and the
car thieves will just come by with a tow truck and tow it away.

You can put an expensive alarm on your car, but car alarms go off all the
time, frequently enough that people ignore them.

It's easier just to get a car that isn't popular with thieves.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

["\"Re...@home.com]

>
> So it sounds like these things are transmitting all the time!! Another
> problem seems to me to be, How long does their battery last?
>

Only the car itself transmits its relatively weak signal continuously,
looking for a nearby fob. If the fob is far enough away from the car or
in a "Faraday" bag/box, it won't "hear" the car, and does not respond.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 9/26/2021 3:14 PM, micky wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:08:56 -0600, Idlehands

>> https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kz48x/guy-selling-relay-attack-keyless-repeaters-to-steal-cars
>>
>> Explains the process quite well.
>
> Thanks.
>
> So it sounds like these things are transmitting all the time!! Another
> problem seems to me to be, How long does their battery last?
>

Changed mine after two years. That seems OK for me.

[Wade Garrett]

My 2016 Toyo is has the original battery in the keyless fob. It works fine.

--
It's every American's duty to support his government...but not
necessarily in the style to which it has become accustomed

[Bob F]

My understanding is that the car is probing for the key all the time.
The key hears the probe and responds to it. The crooks amplify the probe
signal, then catch the response from the key and regenerate it near the car.

[Rod Speed]

micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote

> On NextDoor, someone claims a car
> can be unlocked by stealing the signal!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_keyless_system

The worst of them can be. But the best of them cant be.

> I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with a
> button,

Yes he is.

> or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.

> Another claims this can defeated by putting the keys in
> a faraday cage, as if the fob was transmitting all the time.

Nope, the car is, but if it cant see the fob because its
in a faraday cage, it obviously wont unlock the car.

> Or theyre referring to the fob that doesn't require a key
> (what is that called?) Isn't the range of that only a few feet?

Not if you have a strong enough transmitter, but you will be
next to the car if your want to unlock and loot it anyway.

> Even with the smallest yard, people inside have their fob
> farther from their car than that, but someone else claims
> they use an amplifier. Well that's back to the battery
> powered fob that does nothing unless you push the button.

> Another says that if you used the door lock switch on the door to lock
> the car, this can't happen, but if you use the fob to lock the door it
> can.

That mangles the real story utterly.

> I can see a possible difference in those two methods, but is it
> actual/true?

Nope.

[Peeler]

On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 17:13:38 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 87-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

[Rod Speed]

Scott Dorsey <klu...@panix.com> wrote

> micky <NONONO...@fmguy.com> wrote

>> On NextDoor, someone claims a car
>> can be unlocked by stealing the signal!

>> I can't tell if he's talking about the fob that unlocks the door with
>> a button, or one that just being near the door unlocks the door.

> They are conflating two different attacks. Both are very effective.

> Cars are easy to steal. You can put a fancier lock on your car, and
> the car thieves will just come by with a tow truck and tow it away.

Not possible where I park my car at home.

> You can put an expensive alarm on your car, but car alarms go
> off all the time, frequently enough that people ignore them.

I don’t ignore them when my neighbour's house or car alarms go off.

[Peeler]

On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 20:15:35 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Xeno to trolling senile Rodent:
"You're a sad old man Rod, truly sad."
MID: <id04c3...@mid.individual.net>

[Frank]

Years ago they stole my wife's 10 year old Mazda. It was found in the
city up on blocks and everything under the hood was gone. They stole it
for parts taking everything but the radio. Tires were new.

[The Real Bev]

Thief opened the unlocked 94 Integra and carefully removed the cheap
($35) aftermarket radio without damaging anything. Middle of the day,
parked on a busy street. Replacement radio was $15 from Ebay. Hard to
see why anybody would bother -- as long as you steal something worth
less than $1K (per day, not $total) it's the equivalent of a traffic ticket.

--
Cheers, Bev
It only takes 2 men to tile a bathroom
if you slice them thinly enough.

[rbowman]

A friend had two Austin Healey 3000's stolen in Boston. After the second
one he bought a Volvo sedan. Who would steal a Volvo? Someone did but at
least he got that one back.

[rbowman]

I had an old Dodge pickup that was a real beater. I left it in the
parking lot at work and never drove it too much. It had a Radio Shack
cassette player that could be removed by pressing a tab and pulling it
out. One day I got in and the mount was dangling by a couple of screws
but the player was still there. Apparently the subgenius couldn't
figure out the mount.

Another day I jumped in and turned on the wipers because is was raining.
The wiper arms were gone.

The final shot was when I sold it for $100. Some old fart wanted the
entire pedigree of the truck and carefully inspected it. He crawled
under to find 2 transmission bolts laying on the ground. I guess the
beer ran out before they could steal the tranny.

Said old fart kept asking questions to the point where I said 'It's a
$100 pickup. Take it or leave it, I don't give a shit but we're done.'
He took it. I really, really hate selling stuff.

[Peeler]

On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 20:11:26 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

> I had an old Dodge pickup that was a real beater. I left it in the

Oh, no! The gossiping starts again.

<FLUSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH>

[Jim Joyce]

I have a 2016 Kia Sorento, bought new in September 2015, and a 2017 Toyota
Tacoma, bought new in July 2017. Both key fobs died in April 2020 within a
few weeks of each other. Fortunately, both used the standard CR2032 so I
was able to use a 2-pack of batteries to fix both fobs.

I guess it's safe to say that I don't change batteries proactively, since
there doesn't seem to be much point. Both fobs have a physical key that can
be used to unlock the doors and the engine can be started by pushing the
start button with the dead fob. As a test, I completely removed the
batteries and they still worked fine. I only lost the wireless convenience
until I replaced the batteries.