What happens when a u-joint fails?
Halterb
happens when one fails completely while driving, maybe at highway speeds? Does
the driveshaft fall off? Freeze and mess up the trans or rear end? Or just make
loud noises? Mechanics have been unable to confirm there's a a bad joint.
Thanks
Bruce Chang
"Halterb" <hal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040929112022...@mb-m03.aol.com...
My friend told me a story about him and a failed U-joint. The front U-joint
went out and the driveshaft fell out. If you remember the old "Speed Racer"
cartoons, the Mach 5 had the little feet that shot out under the Mach 5 and
allowed it to jump over obstacles and do tricks. Well, the failed U-joint
managed to do just that, except his car didn't stay parallel to the ground,
in fact, he went close to perpendicular to the ground, nose down and made a
spectacular groove in the asphalt road he speeding down.
I would imagine a rear U-joint would be less spectacular and would either
just hang there scraping the ground or fall out completely.
U-joints are cheap. What symptoms are you experiencing?
Mike Walsh
I have never seen a U-joint suddenly fail completely. They will make a lot of noise when the needle bearings start coming out, or will vibrate a lot when they start to seize up.
Take the drive shaft off and see if the joints will turn freely without excessive play.
--
When replying by Email include NewSGrouP (case sensitive) in Subject
Mike Walsh
West Palm Beach, Florida, U.S.A.
C. E. White
Mike Walsh wrote:
>
> I have never seen a U-joint suddenly fail completely. They will make a lot of noise when the needle bearings start coming out, or will vibrate a lot when they start to seize up.
> Take the drive shaft off and see if the joints will turn freely without excessive play.
Unfortunately I've seen a number of U-Joints fail but mostly
on a peanut combine (at least three) or a tractor mounted
mower. Watching one fail on the peanut combine was very
intersting. The joint at the tractor end let go. The drive
shaft just sort of spun straight out in space for a few
moments until the momentum of the picker dissipated. Then it
just fell down. If this happened in a car, I think you'd be
OK becasue as long as the shaft was spinning it would not
just drop. I have seen loops on large truck designed to
prevent the driveshaft from dropping to the ground. Years
ago (and I mean many years agao), i can remember the
driveshaft literally rolling out from under my Mother's car
when she was taking off from home. The rear U-joint failed,
and the shaft pulled out of the transmission and just rolled
away.
Ed
ray
You need a new mechanic. :)
Another poster covered what happens when the front Ujoint breaks... if
the rear one comes apart you'll be lucky if the driveshaft just falls
out. If you're unlucky you'll have a floor that's dented all to heck
and you'll need a new driveshaft after it hits the ground at 60 and
bends (or gets run over or goes through the windshield of the car behind
you.) Unless you've got a 4wd you'll be calling a tow truck when that
happens... btw - if you have a 4wd maybe it's the front axles?
What exactly is the symptom(s)?
Ray
Mike Romain
ground and flips your truck killing you.
If you are lucky, it only wrecks the tranny or rear diff and punches
holes all over the place when it windmills.
I lost one good friend when his hit the ground flipped him and killed
him and saw one other friend get hooked jumping the truck 10 feet in the
air but landing wheels down when the driveshaft bent in half.
My rear driveshaft let go in the front at 30 mph a couple years back and
it windmilled destroying my exhaust, gas line, brake line, transfer case
yoke and punching a bunch of holes in my floor. My Jeep driveshaft was
luckily too short to hook the ground.
If you block the wheels and put it in neutral then crawl under it is
usually easy to see if a joint is gone bad. You twist and push at the
driveshaft ends. If there is any movement at any of the u-joint caps or
if a bunch of rust is pouring out of one, it is dead.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Rex B
||A u-joint on my 2000 Dodge pickup acts like it may be going bad. Just what
||happens when one fails completely while driving, maybe at highway speeds?
Depends on which one fails, and how the driveshaft is supported. The rear one
fails more 0ften, and at worst just drops to the pavement, possible pulling out
of the transmission and rolling down the road. If the front fails and it's a
one-pice, unsupported shaft, if can drop down, dig in, and "pole-vault" with
very unsettling results, including loss of control. But there is plenty of
warning way before that, for all but the terminally clueless.
Usually it will first show up as a low-speed click that changes with vehicle
speed. Usually goes away over about 40 mph.
With the rear wheels jacked up, trans in neutral, any mechanic can easily
find a bad u-joint by wiglling the driveshaft while observing the joints. If
your mechanic is incapable of doing this, find a real mechanic.
Texas Parts Guy
Don Bruder
hal...@aol.com (Halterb) wrote:
Depends on which end drops. If the rear, you're likely going to beat the
everlovin' bejeezus out of anything underneath the vehicle that the
drivelin can reach, and it's easily possible to do tranny damage, or
even have the driveline's free end go through bodywork. In a pickup,
that last possibility isn't an "oh my god, we're all gonna die" concept,
but I'm sure you'd prefer to keep the truck more or less intact. That
driveline is spinning at anywhere from 300 to 1500 RPM, depending on
your tranny's gearing, and that's a *LOT* of weight to have flaling
around at those kinds of speed. The flailing driveline may (depending on
where it's located in relation to them) punch the fuel tank(s) on a
truck, which is another fairly seriously bad situation - Nothing like a
chunk of steel banging around and/or grinding on the pavement making
sparks with raw gasoline spewed nearby to light up your day - literally.
If the front lets go, you could find yourself in a *SERIOUSLY*
"rodeo-style" situation before you even know anything has failed -
Depending on speed, road-surface conditions, and other variables, it's
entirely possible to literally "pole vault" the vehicle as the front of
the shaft catches in a crack or similar, and the momentum flings you
skyward.
U-joints are relatively cheap (Dunno what your Dodge will cost, but
rebuilding my driveline from front to back cost me under $40 for the
three (It's a two-piece in my case) new U-joints it took) and once you
figure out the first one, it's dead-simple to DIY.
I'd *STRONGLY* advise you to jump straight to "shotgun approach", and
simply replace them now, without waiting for someone to confirm that one
of them is bad/failing. While you're at it, fire your mechanic(s).
He/they are utter morons. Confirming that a U-joint IS bad or failing is
dead simple, and if your mechanic can't do it, he's so pathetically
underqualified that I'd flatly forbid him to get within 50 feet of my
car with a wrench in his hand.
--
Don Bruder - dak...@sonic.net - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html> for full details.
KENG
front of the driveshaft.
Ad absurdum per aspera
> prevent the driveshaft from dropping to the ground.
Racing classes that start getting into nontrivial increments of speed
and power beyond a typical street sedan usually require driveshaft
loops, amid a variety of other safety equipment. Besides the hazards
to one's own ride and hide, such as pogo-sticking the whole car,
penetration of the cabin and ensuing shishkebab potential, and
harpooning the gas tank, nobody behind you wants to run over an
escaped driveshaft.
--Joe
Tegger®
news:415af528...@news.txol.net:
>
> With the rear wheels jacked up, trans in neutral, any mechanic can
> easily
> find a bad u-joint by wiglling the driveshaft while observing the
> joints. If your mechanic is incapable of doing this, find a real
> mechanic.
If there's ANY movement when you grab in front and behind of the joint and
twist, the UJ's bad. If the movement is slight enough, you will only feel
it, not see it.
Seems to me it's best to check with the suspension loaded normally. That
way the parts are in the position of most wear.
--
TeGGeR®
Tegger®
news:1366134a.04092...@posting.google.com:
>> I have seen loops on large truck designed to
>> prevent the driveshaft from dropping to the ground.
>
> Racing classes that start getting into nontrivial increments of speed
> and power beyond a typical street sedan usually require driveshaft
> loops, amid a variety of other safety equipment.
Judging by the number of vehicles I've seen by the side of the road with
dropped driveshafts (usually it was the *front* that had dropped), maybe
brain transplants should be part of the safety equipment. Imagine the
vibration the driver was ignoring...
--
TeGGeR®
Halterb
road test at the repair shop convinced them there was a bad joint--turned out
to in fact be the rear one, and it was replaced ($198).
For those who asked about symptoms--vibration 22 to 28 MPH, again at 32 to 38
and again around 50, accompanied by a rumbling sound. On floatt, much less
noticable. On light accelleration, clearly noticable. You could also feel and
see the 4 wheel drive shift lever vibrating. At very low speeds, a squeak at
driveshaft speed (about 3 squeaks for a wheel revolution)--squeak became more
of a singing sound at higher speeds. Clank shifting from drive to reverse or
vice versa, although this evidently is a common modulator problem with the
trans on these vehicles (TSB),
In the shop's defense, early on this was intermittent and barely evident when I
brought it in to be checked before. I looked underneath and couldn't see
anything suspicious, and there seemed to be no play when I grasped the shaft
and attempted to turn it. Interesting note: the manufacturer says the u-joints
are "lubricated for the life of the vehicle"!
Bob
"Tegger®" <teggerati...@changetheobvious.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns9573CF30FEB...@207.14.113.17...
vibrate for a long damn time before the driveshaft hits the pavement.
Bob
Bob
"Mike Romain" <rom...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:415AF3A5...@sympatico.ca...
> If you are unlucky, the front of the driveshaft drops down, hooks the
> ground and flips your truck killing you
> holes all over the place when it windmills.
If you're lucky the driveshaft just falls out on the road and you buy a new
one because yours is bent and all wallowed out on the end from the u joint
that's been vibrating for the last 6 months.
> I lost one good friend when his hit the ground flipped him and killed
> him and saw one other friend get hooked jumping the truck 10 feet in the
> air but landing wheels down when the driveshaft bent in half.
>
> My rear driveshaft let go in the front at 30 mph a couple years back and
> it windmilled destroying my exhaust, gas line, brake line, transfer case
> yoke and punching a bunch of holes in my floor. My Jeep driveshaft was
> luckily too short to hook the ground.
>
> If you block the wheels and put it in neutral then crawl under it is
> usually easy to see if a joint is gone bad. You twist and push at the
> driveshaft ends. If there is any movement at any of the u-joint caps or
> if a bunch of rust is pouring out of one, it is dead.
It sounds like you know what to look for.... how is it that you ignored the
symptoms to the point of losing the driveshaft?
Bob
us...@domain.invalid
> In article <20040929112022...@mb-m03.aol.com>,
> hal...@aol.com (Halterb) wrote:
>
>
>>A u-joint on my 2000 Dodge pickup acts like it may be going bad. Just what
>>happens when one fails completely while driving, maybe at highway speeds?
>>Does
>>the driveshaft fall off? Freeze and mess up the trans or rear end? Or just
>>make
>>loud noises? Mechanics have been unable to confirm there's a a bad joint.
>>
>>Thanks
>
>
> "rodeo-style" situation before you even know anything has failed -
> Depending on speed, road-surface conditions, and other variables, it's
> entirely possible to literally "pole vault" the vehicle as the front of
> the shaft catches in a crack or similar, and the momentum flings you
> skyward.
FWIW, this is why you need a driveshaft loop on most race cars.
Never understood why they don't come on street cars and trucks.
(I know most are FWD now, but trucks are still RWD and my "fleet" of
cars are RWD... and most have ds loops...)
Ray
us...@domain.invalid
IIRC, the NHRA requires a DS loop on ANY car running slicks. Even a 2
barrel mid 70's Impala wagon would need a loop with slicks. Mandatory
on street tires at 13.99 or 12.99 (I forget which.)
Ray
us...@domain.invalid
> Thanks for all the good replies. You confirmed my worst fears! Fortunately, a
> road test at the repair shop convinced them there was a bad joint--turned out
> to in fact be the rear one, and it was replaced ($198).
>
Good to hear you got it taken care of. BTW, it's not like it would just
"fall out" on you... you'd have to leave it for a while before it would
fail, but it sounded like you were hoping to get another 5000 miles out
of it before fixing it... and we wanted to warn you of the hazards of
leaving it before it fell out on you...
Ray
Don Bruder
jtc...@california.com (Ad absurdum per aspera) wrote:
> Besides the hazards... ...nobody behind you wants to run over an
> escaped driveshaft.
That's one way of putting it :)
Mike Romain
>
> "Mike Romain" <rom...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:415AF3A5...@sympatico.ca...
> > If you are unlucky, the front of the driveshaft drops down, hooks the
> > ground and flips your truck killing you
> > If you are lucky, it only wrecks the tranny or rear diff and punches
> > holes all over the place when it windmills.
>
> If you're lucky the driveshaft just falls out on the road and you buy a new
> one because yours is bent and all wallowed out on the end from the u joint
> that's been vibrating for the last 6 months.
You have to have no one behind you for that to be lucky otherwise you
could kill someone.
>
> > I lost one good friend when his hit the ground flipped him and killed
> > him and saw one other friend get hooked jumping the truck 10 feet in the
> > air but landing wheels down when the driveshaft bent in half.
> >
> > My rear driveshaft let go in the front at 30 mph a couple years back and
> > it windmilled destroying my exhaust, gas line, brake line, transfer case
> > yoke and punching a bunch of holes in my floor. My Jeep driveshaft was
> > luckily too short to hook the ground.
> >
> > If you block the wheels and put it in neutral then crawl under it is
> > usually easy to see if a joint is gone bad. You twist and push at the
> > driveshaft ends. If there is any movement at any of the u-joint caps or
> > if a bunch of rust is pouring out of one, it is dead.
>
> It sounds like you know what to look for.... how is it that you ignored the
> symptoms to the point of losing the driveshaft?
> Bob
That was easy actually. :-) I had been off roading hard all day with a
bunch of 4x4's and the last thing I had to do was to drag a Land cruiser
off a nasty high center. It took some serious snatching action and I
figure I stretched the straps that hold the u-joint in place from the
looks of them after. Or maybe I tagged it on a rock, who knows.
It is not unusual to blow out u-joints when off roading. I have 2
spares and new straps in my off road kit.
It didn't last a mile on paved roads after I took it out of 4x4. She
was vibrating all right so I was only putting along. At least with a
4x4 all I had to do was some roadside patching of the lines and coat
hanger work on the exhaust then I could drive it home in front wheel
only drive.
The damn u-joints were less than a year old too. Those 'heavy duty',
'lifetime warranty' no grease jobs.
What pieces of crap they are. I put them all through in 2000 when I
rebuilt my Jeep and every one failed within 2 years, most within 1
year. Water contamination because you can't grease them. I got my
money back on all of them and put proper greasable ones in. They have
lasted.
Mike
RV
<bec...@swspambegonebell.net> wrote:
>
>"Halterb" <hal...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20040929112022...@mb-m03.aol.com...
>>A u-joint on my 2000 Dodge pickup acts like it may be going bad. Just what
>> happens when one fails completely while driving, maybe at highway speeds?
>> Does
>> the driveshaft fall off? Freeze and mess up the trans or rear end? Or just
>> make
>> loud noises? Mechanics have been unable to confirm there's a a bad joint.
>>
>> Thanks
>
>My friend told me a story about him and a failed U-joint. The front U-joint
>went out and the driveshaft fell out. If you remember the old "Speed Racer"
>cartoons, the Mach 5 had the little feet that shot out under the Mach 5 and
>allowed it to jump over obstacles and do tricks. Well, the failed U-joint
>managed to do just that, except his car didn't stay parallel to the ground,
>in fact, he went close to perpendicular to the ground, nose down and made a
>spectacular groove in the asphalt road he speeding down.
>
Sorry to say it but this is on old wivers tale
If the front of the uni drops to the road and it does in fact dig in,
the tail shaft will fold up like a coke can and rip open.
It's hollow tube not solid shaft.
It may leave a bit of a mess underneath for sure but there is no way
it will pole vault a car.
The danger of it falling down is that it may rip apart becoming sharp
objects and go under the rear tyres shredding one of them, in hight
speed racing applications this is real bad.
Don Bruder
RV <do_no...@email.com> wrote:
Tell that to those who have had it happen. Oh, wait... Most of them
aren't in any kind of shape to be told anything. Or at least, not with
anything that can be reasonbly described as "comprehension"...
Mike Romain
Bull shit!
I have seen it pole vault a pickup and a friend died when his flipped
the same way.
Why do you think tracks require the axle strap? They have seen enough.
A tube is really strong when end on pressure is applied.
~^Johnny^~
>On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 17:12:15 -0400, Mike Romain <rom...@sympatico.ca>
>wrote:
>Pull the other one Mike, it plays jingle bells.
I ain't gonna touch this one with 5 foot pole! :-)
--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info
Jack
Probably you've all finished discussing this. but here are a couple of
reports of inquiries about driveshaft failures (rest of stories on
websites):
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/latestnewsstory.cfm?storyID=3600170
13.10.2004
Maintenance and safety procedures have been revised after a driveshaft
which failed on an Auckland commuter train punctured the floor of a
carriage carrying three passengers.
None of the three passengers aboard the Auckland to Papakura service
at 9.15am on June 27, 2003 was injured when the driveshaft punctured
the floor of the cabin.
...
A Transport Accident Investigation Commission (TAIC) report just
released blamed the failure on overheating and seizing of a joint in
the driveshaft and said a "safety stirrup" did not adequately restrain
the failed driveshaft.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?thesection=news&thesubsection=&storyID=3515568
31.07.2003
Mechanics working on a truck did not have the training to detect an
unsafe driveshaft that 11 days later shattered and sent a part flying
through the windscreen of an oncoming car.
Eddie Tavinor, 32, a father-of-three, was killed instantly in the
accident on the Auckland Southern Motorway on November 20, 2000.
A portion of the front universal joint from the truck's driveshaft
decapitated the Pukekohe plasterer as it smashed through the
windscreen and through the cabin of his Mazda ute.
Three expert witnesses at last December's inquest into Mr Tavinor's
death agreed the driveshaft separated because of bearing failure,
according to a coroner's finding released yesterday.
They found there was wear and tear on a bearing "well in excess" of
the manufacturer's limits and it should have been detectable during
work on the vehicle at Roadlife Services on November 9, 2000.
The mechanics who worked on the truck were not properly trained and
kept up-to-date with the parts they were working on, and had not read
a manual on the driveshaft's maintenance, the report found.
b4i...@gmail.com
Kevin Bottorff
news:2d23e842-b4a0-4c08...@googlegroups.com:
tell???? KB
JR
Paul in Houston TX
The Real Bev
pole vault, but it didn't happen.
http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2005/03/mythbusters_exploding_portapot.html
--
Cheers, Bev
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"The language of victimization is infinitely extensible." -- Me
JR
Kevin Bottorff
email.me:
this old crap showing up on my new feed. KB
Steve W.
Steve W.
Paul in Houston TX
Kevin Bottorff
kill file google. KB
treego...@gmail.com
amizcr...@gmail.com
I HAVE A 1991 JEEP WRANGLER HAS THE 4.0 MOTOR AND IS A 5 SPEED. MANUAL TRANS.
MY QUESTION IS: what would cause the rear shaft to Twist untill it Twisted In half?
Its been used kinda like Skidder But NoT on Pavement!
Joints didn't fail the drive shaft tube Failed! Snapping The front axle at both front wheels and it picked the jeep UP then it came back Down onto the Pavement while driving and all at 40 MPH W A Log Loaded Trailer. It also Ripped a Leaf Spring out from under the rear End! AND ALL AT Once!
I'm in process of fixing all of this. But would a shaft tube failure Cause All of that? Jeep WAS In 4 wheel Drive When It Broke. I'm Making a New Drive shaft a quarter inch thick had the ends turned so the yolks will fit into it. 1 I'm making is 9 and 7 8ths Long Tube. Best I could Figure Was 13 and 1/2 inch Over All. Will this work ?
OPINIONS AND COMMENTS WELCOME PLEASES NO BASHING. THANK YOU! :)
Amizcrock528@
Gmail.com
Thank you.
Needing Pro. Input and ideas or recomendations.
Thanks Again
