midas muffler scam question

[Drjhsmith]

The tail pipe on my daughters 97 jetta fell off at the muffler and my question
is:

The Midas sales point is that I need a new muffler because "you can't weld a
new tailpipe onto the factory muffler." Is this really true?

If it was welded on the original, why can't they just weld another one on--they
have all kinds of tubing, sizes, and bending machines. The car only has 25k
miles on it so the muffler is virtually new.

It just doesn't make sense to me. Is this a myth or reality?

My gut tells me to hunt down a private shop but will they tell me the same
thing?

thanks in advance.

[shiden]

"Drjhsmith" wrote

> The tail pipe on my daughters 97 jetta fell off at the muffler and my question
> is:
>
> The Midas sales point is that I need a new muffler because "you can't weld a
> new tailpipe onto the factory muffler." Is this really true?

Yes, the metal that the tailpipe is welded to is quite thin. Just get a new
muffler and tailpipe assembly.

> If it was welded on the original, why can't they just weld another one on--they
> have all kinds of tubing, sizes, and bending machines. The car only has 25k
> miles on it so the muffler is virtually new.

Because you will want them to warranty it forever, and it won't last, then
you will be back complaining that it didn't last, and they will say I told
you so, but they don't want that kind of headache, so they tell you right up
front you need a complete new muffler with tailpipe.

> My gut tells me to hunt down a private shop but will they tell me the same
> thing?

Why don't you hunt down the dealership and complain that the tailpipe
fell off earlier then you believe it should have? Good luck!!

Ian

[the fly]

The most common place for rust to take the tail pipe
off the muffler is right next to the muffler body. This
usually leaves no stub to which another pipe can be
attached.

[Nathan Nagel]

How much is Midas going to charge you for the muffler?

Check out http://www.tttuning.com they sell free flow mandrel bent
exhausts for VWs for less than the cost of factory parts, it's not that
hard to do yourself either (usually the outlet of the cat is a bolted
flange so no fighting with slip joints) if you like stock
http://motorworks.com sells stock replacement components

good luck

nate

[ralph]

That's the story. The metal is now rusted out thinner than it was to
begin with, obviously, and as you've learned, a weld rusts faster than
plain metal. So welding a new one on is difficult at best, and it won't
last very long.
Might not want to get stuck with the Midas deal though. Their stuff is
pretty shoddy, quite a bit worse than factory stock (but cheaper), high
restriction in the pipes and muffslers and rusts out. Sure, the muffler
is warranteed, but they make it all up on the pipes and hardware that
also have to be replaced, and are not warranteed. So, you basically pay
them a few bills every couple of years to put on another junky system.
You can get the factory system and have somebody replace it, or replace
it yourself (don't know the jetta, replacing the muffler on a honda is
trivial), or look for a better brand. Dynomax made by Walker are about
as good as factory stock (cheaper), and lifetime warranteed, if they
make one for your car. Monroe shops carry them, at least around here. I
had one for several years; it did rust out too, but they gave me a new
one no questions asked. It was a Honda, like I said trivial to replace.
I used a band clamp instead of a ubolt clamp, so i could reuse the
intake pipe when the muffler rusted out, too. If the muffler shops don't
know what that is, look at JCWhitney.com or somewhere.

--
If you can't go down in history,
you can at least go down on me.

[Nathan Nagel]

ralph wrote:
>
> That's the story. The metal is now rusted out thinner than it was to
> begin with, obviously, and as you've learned, a weld rusts faster than
> plain metal. So welding a new one on is difficult at best, and it won't
> last very long.
> Might not want to get stuck with the Midas deal though. Their stuff is
> pretty shoddy, quite a bit worse than factory stock (but cheaper), high
> restriction in the pipes and muffslers and rusts out. Sure, the muffler
> is warranteed, but they make it all up on the pipes and hardware that
> also have to be replaced, and are not warranteed. So, you basically pay
> them a few bills every couple of years to put on another junky system.
> You can get the factory system and have somebody replace it, or replace
> it yourself (don't know the jetta, replacing the muffler on a honda is
> trivial), or look for a better brand. Dynomax made by Walker are about
> as good as factory stock (cheaper), and lifetime warranteed, if they
> make one for your car. Monroe shops carry them, at least around here. I
> had one for several years; it did rust out too, but they gave me a new
> one no questions asked. It was a Honda, like I said trivial to replace.
> I used a band clamp instead of a ubolt clamp, so i could reuse the
> intake pipe when the muffler rusted out, too. If the muffler shops don't
> know what that is, look at JCWhitney.com or somewhere.

VW's use band clamps from the factory. They generally are still good,
just need to replace the clamp bolt

nate

[Drjhsmith]

The muffler has zero rust and looks brand new (southern california).

[Drjhsmith]

they wanted $114 for the muffler and were looking up the new tailpipe when I
asked them, "if you are going to weld another tailpipe to the new muffler, why
can't you weld it to the existing muffler? there is about 1/2 to 3/4 inch
flange sticking out there?"

at that point they said let's put it on the rack so I walked out and said I was
just shopping around.

Call me skeptical.

jeff

[Drjhsmith]

wow-thanks for the detailed reply. I am not going back to midas but will shop
for someone else around here.

[Drjhsmith]

I am going to VW to see if I might just need a new pipe and band clamp. will
let you know.

thanks

[Larry Smith]

> Might not want to get stuck with the Midas deal though. Their stuff is
> pretty shoddy, quite a bit worse than factory stock (but cheaper), high
> restriction in the pipes and muffslers and rusts out

That is a shame to hear. I used to feel I got really good parts and
workmanship
from them, but haven't had an occasion to use them in years.

Of the two things I hate to do on cars, muffler work is one of them.
(Electrical inside the dash is the other.)

[Drjhsmith]

I checked with VW and they wanted $212 for new muffler + extra for tailpipe and
labor (claimed the band clamp idea wouldn't work). Before I went to plan B,
daughter's boyfriend took car to shop he had been to before and they said, "no
problem" since no rust and there was a flange on exhaust side. They welded a
new pipe on there for $30 and its working great.
Thanks to everyone for the advice and ideas. You guys are great.

Score one for the newsgroup.

jeff

[Nathan Nagel]

the VW dealer just wanted to sell you a muffler so you would do it "the
right way." There's nothing wrong with what you did IMHO. I would have
done the same thing. for future reference unless you have a really good
parts counter guy if you want to buy a clamp from the VW dealer, just
measure the diameter of the pipe and tell them you want one that size.
They usually don't take kindly to "non standard" repairs.

nate