Re: 2000 Lumina 3.1L Head Gasget (step-by-step guide)
Kruse
, need to know what to look for to
> determine if I want NAPA to do the heads.
I couldn't get the photos to load. Maybe something wrong on my side.
I'm a tightwad, but at 109K miles, I would put the heads back on
without reworking them.
I recently replaced the LIM gaskets on my '98 GM 3.1 w/175K miles
without reworking them
and the car runs strong and doesn't use oil. Replace all the intake/
head bolts. Replace your thermostat
(don't use a cheap replacement) while you have the intake off because
it's a pain in the arse to do it when the intake is back on.
A few other posters will crucify me for this, but before you start,
completely flush out the DexCool
and replace the coolant with Ford GO5 antifreeze when you are done
with your repair. It probably doesn't matter
with FelPro replacements, however.
Change your oil and filter before you start your car back up and
change it again about 1K miles later. (Assuming that
coolant leaked into the oil)
Took bad the GM 3.1/3.4 engineers and accountants weren't made to do a
few of these by themselves without any help.
Too bad the 3.1/3.4 has such a bad, but deserved reputation. Except
for the ease of repair, (or lack thereof) it's a decent engine.
Vic Smith
wrote:
Doesn't have a bad rep with me. Son's '93 3.1 Corsica went 180k miles
with no engine problems.
My '97 Lumina has 150k with no engine problems.
His car rusted out, and mine is starting. Probably wouldn't do a head
gasket, might do a LIM if it needed it.
Two more years and the rust will probably bother me enough to junk it.
Right engine mount is shot. You can see it, but it hasn't had an
effect as far as I can tell.
Neither car had Dexcool in them. I think I flushed it out of the
Lumina when I bought it 5 years ago.
The mount location pisses me off though. Have to pull the half shaft
to change it. Some other complication I don't like too.
Decided to let it slide because of the rust signaling impending doom
anyway.
--Vic
ctops.legal
Yes the car is worth it, the thermostat went out which was replaced as
with the waterpump, cooling sys. was flused see: http://www.clean-rite.com/,
I just would like a step-by-step custom guild that someone has
remembered the 3.1L engine is very common, have got a FEL-PRO # HS
9957 PT-1, the thermostat going out caused the intake gasket to go
because it's plactic so I'm told. I have built several other engines
in the past but as I have learned there is always some little trick
that's helps the job and it only comes from experence.
Curt
Vic Smith
<ctops...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Yes the car is worth it, the thermostat went out which was replaced as
>with the waterpump, cooling sys. was flused see: http://www.clean-rite.com/,
>I just would like a step-by-step custom guild that someone has
>remembered the 3.1L engine is very common, have got a FEL-PRO # HS
>9957 PT-1, the thermostat going out caused the intake gasket to go
>because it's plactic so I'm told. I have built several other engines
>in the past but as I have learned there is always some little trick
>that's helps the job and it only comes from experence.
>
Here's a link to a procedure for the left head.
Don't ask me why it's only the left head.
http://www.2carpros.com/forum/2003-buick-century--leaking-head-gasket-vt221692.html
If you look around enough you should find a step-by-step by some fan
who did the job. Google is your friend, but you sometimes have to
wade through a lot to get where you want.
Or get the shop manual.
--Vic
ctops.legal
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:08:22 -0800 (PST), "ctops.legal"
>
>
> >Yes the car is worth it, the thermostat went out which was replaced as
> >with the waterpump, cooling sys. was flused see:http://www.clean-rite.com/,
> >I just would like a step-by-step custom guild that someone has
> >remembered the 3.1L engine is very common, have got a FEL-PRO # HS
> >9957 PT-1, the thermostat going out caused the intake gasket to go
> >because it's plactic so I'm told. I have built several other engines
> >in the past but as I have learned there is always some little trick
> >that's helps the job and it only comes from experence.
>
> Here's a link to a procedure for the left head.
>
> If you look around enough you should find a step-by-step by some fan
> who did the job. Google is your friend, but you sometimes have to
> wade through a lot to get where you want.
> Or get the shop manual.
>
> --Vic
Yea thank's Vic I seen that I am surprised that these is not a utube
vid. on a 3.1L it's so common, I used to know plenty of guys that were
into restoration and pimpin rides I know parts and service have gone
up as far as machine shop engine work, I remember a 350 we did for 600
bucks way back then, the carb was 2 hundred of it. Down here is the SE
good deals are everywhere usually a car/truck with grass grown up
around it in some yard will lead to a good ride.
Curt
dsi1
> Here's a link to a procedure for the left head.
> Don't ask me why it's only the left head.
> http://www.2carpros.com/forum/2003-buick-century--leaking-head-gasket-vt221692.html
The important part of your link is that someone mentions that the intake
manifold can leak coolant. My assumption is that the coolant circulates
through the manifold to heat it up, or cool it. One of those - i don't
really know which. All I know is that they seem prone to leaking. :-)
My father's Lumina had this problem. It was repaired once but now may
have it again. My Lumina might have had this problem, luckily, I gave it
to my son and he wrecked it - that turned out well. Other than that
serious problem, they're pretty good cars! :-)
ctops.legal
> On 12/28/2009 4:27 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
>
> > Here's a link to a procedure for the left head.
> > Don't ask me why it's only the left head.
>
> The important part of your link is that someone mentions that the intake
> manifold can leak coolant. My assumption is that the coolant circulates
> through the manifold to heat it up, or cool it. One of those - i don't
> really know which. All I know is that they seem prone to leaking. :-)
>
> My father's Lumina had this problem. It was repaired once but now may
> have it again. My Lumina might have had this problem, luckily, I gave it
> to my son and he wrecked it - that turned out well. Other than that
> serious problem, they're pretty good cars! :-)
>
>
>
>
>
> > If you look around enough you should find a step-by-step by some fan
> > who did the job. Google is your friend, but you sometimes have to
> > wade through a lot to get where you want.
> > Or get the shop manual.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yea so far so good there are 2 bolts behing the engine (manifold heat
sheld cover bolts) started today soaking bolts a day with 3 in 1 oil,
it looks like I'm going to have to totally take both manofolds off,
that is the worst of it.
Curt
dsi1
Sorry to hear of your problem. Here's a link that may be helpful and has
a push rod removal tool that is supposed to make the job somewhat
easier. Good luck!
Scott Dorsey
>> sheld cover bolts) started today soaking bolts a day with 3 in 1 oil,
>> it looks like I'm going to have to totally take both manofolds off,
>> that is the worst of it.
Skip the machine oil and try PB Blaster, or Break-Free or another
penetrating oil designed for the job. Not very expensive and will save
a lot of grief.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
ctops.legal
I did use PB Blaster, the rain has shut me down, the "push rod removal
tool" if needed I can get from a friend that has a shop, this guy
tells me they remove and replace the back- Head with the manifold
"attached" I can see removal but replacement is,,, well let's see.
Curt
ctops.legal
Everthing is ready to pull apart, found this on the net;
http://hubpages.com/hub/Chevy-31-Liter-Engine-Leaking-Intake-Manifold-Gasket-and-Warped-Heads
still have the 2 last back manifold sheald cover bolts (has to be done
from the bottom along with the 2 main manifold/exaust pipe nuts both
came off, good ole PB Blaster and a 1/2 in. drive impact with 120psi
pushing.
Curt
ctops.legal
> On Jan 1, 7:33 am, "ctops.legal" <ctops.le...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 30 2009, 8:40 pm, klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
> > > >> Yea so far so good there are 2 bolts behing the engine (manifold heat
> > > >> sheld cover bolts) started today soaking bolts a day with 3 in 1 oil,
> > > >> it looks like I'm going to have to totally take both manofolds off,
> > > >> that is the worst of it.
>
> > > Skip the machine oil and try PB Blaster, or Break-Free or another
> > > penetrating oil designed for the job. Not very expensive and will save
> > > a lot of grief.
> > > --scott
>
> > > --
> > > "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
>
> > I did use PB Blaster, the rain has shut me down, the "push rod removal
> > tool" if needed I can get from a friend that has a shop, this guy
> > tells me they remove and replace the back- Head with the manifold
> > "attached" I can see removal but replacement is,,, well let's see.
>
> > Curt
>
> Everthing is ready to pull apart, found this on the net;
>
>
> still have the 2 last back manifold sheald cover bolts (has to be done
> from the bottom along with the 2 main manifold/exaust pipe nuts both
> came off, good ole PB Blaster and a 1/2 in. drive impact with 120psi
> pushing.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
As I suspected the thermostat went out you can see the place right
under the thermostat that's where the gasket failed from the high
heat, resurface the heads on Mon. back on the road Tue.
ctops.legal
I need good torque specification for the 2000 Lumina 3.1L (heads)
(intake mainifolds) in foot lbs. please.
Curt
Steve Austin
The head bolts are torque angle. The intake torque depends on the
gaskets you use.
ctops.legal
>
> - Show quoted text -
FelPro = 67 foot lbs. (1st round ) 115 foot lbs (2nd round), I need to
get a conformation, my manual which don't look right 2002 book, (when
I broke the bolts lose the lower bolts were way less than 115, the top
felt right),
Curt
ctops.legal
>
> - Show quoted text -
Does anybody have this ? "Federal-Mogul is offering the complete Fel-
Pro Torque Tables guide as a free downloadable PDF file through the
Fel-Pro brand’s technician-focused www.felpro-only.com Web site.
Professionals also can order a printed version on the site." can't
seem to find the .pdf file on there site, and yea I sent a request to
them and no this is not a factory new engine it's got 100.000 miles I
want the MAX torque for the heads & intake (yes all new bolts) this
engine is not going to be coming apart again, Mr Austin I know what
"torque angle" is I don't have a meter but own a brand new torque
wrench. need some numbers guys ,, thanks.
Curt
aarcuda69062
<2e519c45-28b6-49c1...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>,
"ctops.legal" <ctops...@gmail.com> wrote:
If you tighten anything on that engine to those specs, you'll distort
the block and it WILL be junk. (of course the bolts will snap long
before you reach 67 foot-pounds but the block will still distort)
The proper tightening of the lower intake manifold bolts is;
1st pass
vertical bolts 62 INCH-pounds
diagonal bolts 62 INCH-pounds
2nd pass
vertical bolts 115 INCH-pounds
diagonal bolts 18 FOOT-pounds
If you bought the Fel-Pro MS98003T intake gasket set, the instructions
inside will give the exact correct torque spec. if you bought the
MS90565 intake gasket set, you're wasting your time.
You should be using blue loc-tite on all lower intake manifold bolts if
you haven't purchased new bolts from GM or Fel-Pro.
Hopefully you managed to get the head bolt torque right, it is;
44 foot-pounds and then an additional 95 degrees.
The sequence was changed also, it is no longer spiraling out from the
center bolts.
ctops.legal
> In article
> <2e519c45-28b6-49c1-8232-0316cd540...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>,
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thank's the sequence was changed also ? my FelPro set is " HS 9957
PT-1" I have not opened the box yet because these parts people make
mistakes so much I tryed to confirm the set's part # with FelPro could
not get a hit for my part #, starting to get the feeling they gave me
the wrong set :-(
Curt
aarcuda69062
<4afe39f2-0acd-460c...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
"ctops.legal" <ctops...@gmail.com> wrote:
They gave you the right set, but they didn't give you the better set.
If you want the set with the problem solver lower intake manifold
gaskets, get set number HST 9957 PT-1
You understand that you need an inch-pound torque wrench right?
Those values can not be accurately done with a 3/8" drive torque wrench,
you'll need a 1/4" drive torque wrench for all but the final torque on
the four diagonals.
ctops.legal
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes I just made an inquiry to FelPro about the 2 part #'s, the local
parts guy where I purchased my current set said the only visual
differnece is an 0-ring type gasket but could not be sure, and if you
open the seal on the box you are stuck, glad I didn't. Thank's the HST
9957 PT-1 was the corresponding part #, a "problem solver" fix that
makes since, as I was inspecting the engine's intake manifold's mating
surface right at the thermostat area (the failure of which was
probably the cause of this repair) that area don't look like a gasket
was even used at the fatcory rather a gasket maker sealant, I
requested the .pdf file for torque specs. from FelPro I have to get a
second opinion from the above posted spec's no offence to the
publisher I'm a second and third opinion researcher. I will post the
link from FelPro (when I get a response) to the .pdf file. The Co. is
in MI. got to be cold up there it's 11:55pm here sunshine state time
30 degrees right now, to cold for driveway mechanican around :-)
Curt
C
aarcuda69062
<5289d5d0-aad8-4f05...@l30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
"ctops.legal" <ctops...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 5, 11:17�am, aarcuda69062 <nonel...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > In article
> > <4afe39f2-0acd-460c-b4fa-eddab7b50...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> > the four diagonals.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I just talked to my bud who owns a good size auto repair shop here
> Autozone/Advance AP can't get the HST 9957 PT-1, my friend aked for
> the 8th digit of the VIN # to get the right set from NAPA (there site
> list's it 100 dollars more than the HS 9957 PT-1, what is this 8th
> digit thing and why are the parts houses using this procedure ?
>
>
> Curt
The eighth digit identifies the engine. But there was only one engine
available in a 2000 Lumina.
Something is fishy on those prices, my NAPA listing shows the HST
costing me $20 more (list is $36 more) than the non problem solver set.
The part number I gave you is correct.
aarcuda69062
<45b393fc-5dbd-44a6...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
"ctops.legal" <ctops...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yes I just made an inquiry to FelPro about the 2 part #'s, the local
> parts guy where I purchased my current set said the only visual
> differnece is an 0-ring type gasket but could not be sure, and if you
> open the seal on the box you are stuck, glad I didn't. Thank's the HST
> 9957 PT-1 was the corresponding part #, a "problem solver" fix that
> makes since, as I was inspecting the engine's intake manifold's mating
> surface right at the thermostat area (the failure of which was
> probably the cause of this repair) that area don't look like a gasket
> was even used at the fatcory rather a gasket maker sealant,
There should be a dab of RTV in the corner where the block, head and
manifold all meet. Also, RTV is used on the end rails of the engine
block to lower intake in leu of a gasket. The actual seal around the
coolant passages and the intake ports on the OE style gaskets is a
formed in place silicone insert. There is not enough surrounding
support around those silicone inserts and over time, expansion and
contraction, the plastic backbone of the gasket shears apart resulting
in the leak.
> I
> requested the .pdf file for torque specs. from FelPro I have to get a
> second opinion from the above posted spec's no offence to the
> publisher I'm a second and third opinion researcher. I will post the
> link from FelPro (when I get a response) to the .pdf file. The Co. is
> in MI. got to be cold up there it's 11:55pm here sunshine state time
> 30 degrees right now, to cold for driveway mechanican around :-)
Those torque specs were straight off of Mitchell On Demand and
referenced the TSBs GM issued on that engine and its sealing problems.
Rest assured, they work just fine, I've done dozens and dozens of those
engines with zero repeat failures.
The inch pound versus foot pound thing is common sense considering the
size of fasteners being utilized.
Steve W.
> I just talked to my bud who owns a good size auto repair shop here
> Autozone/Advance AP can't get the HST 9957 PT-1, my friend aked for
> the 8th digit of the VIN # to get the right set from NAPA (there site
> list's it 100 dollars more than the HS 9957 PT-1, what is this 8th
> digit thing and why are the parts houses using this procedure ?
>
>
> Curt
>
Rock auto has both,
The HS set at 143.89
The HST set at 169.79
NAPA shows
The HS set at 234.00
The HST set at 209.00
Head Bolt set is FPG ES72892 runs about 40 bucks.
Torque Sequence per SB 02-06-01-003B
Issued April 2008
5 O 3 O 2 O 8 O
7 O 1 O 4 O 6 O
Start at 44 lb. ft.
Then 95 degrees additional.
Intake replacement:
Service Bulletin 03-06-01-010C
Issued April 2008
dO bO aO cO
cO aO bO dO
a/b get initial torque of 62 lb. in. then
c/d get initial torque of 62 lb. in.
NEXT
a/b get final torque of 115 lb. in. then
c/d get final torque of 18 lb. ft.
May develop an oil leak if you don't torque the verticals first.
Recommended that intake bolts be replaced as well.
--
Steve W.
ctops.legal
Yea all new FelPro bolts the better gasket set "HST 9957 PT-1" is on
the way from my bud. that own's the garage $170.00, the head bolts 30
bucks, intake bolts 29 bucks Autozone, they knew of the better head
set but did not complain on the refund could not order from there
warehouse. I must confess I work in the IT field but if one gasket set
is improved or superseded by a better one is the deficiency of the
latter one worthy of a valid sale ?
Still no reply from FelPro I would like this pdf download they are
supposed to have for free download on the NEW torque spec's, also in
the past I always do a 2nd pass re-torque over night for "newly
installed part settling" especially on head repairs were just the
heads were resurfaced, need a good cleaning method for the block
mating surface the Acetone based cleaners wont clean all the old
stains from mating surface, thinking about some fine grade emery
cloth, what say you guys.
Curt
Steve W.
The OEM head gaskets used a different material for the gaskets. The
updated ones use a stainless inner layer to keep them from shifting.
The OEM Intake gaskets use a modified nylon material as the substrate
for the silicone sealing rings.
The problem with this is the way the gaskets on the newer engines are
held in place.
Older engines sandwiched the gaskets and had direct clamping with bolts
at a 90 degree angle. Then makers got this brilliant idea on how to
reduce assembly time of the engines by angling the bolts. The problem
with that is that now the gaskets are compressed in shear. Add in the
constant heat, expansion/contraction and lower tensile strength of the
plastic and you get failed gaskets.
After-market places saw the problems and developed gaskets that cured
it. BUT it took the OEM's a while to repair the problem.
Also while you hear all the time about how bad they are when it comes to
repairing these issues, keep in mind that for most companies if they
make 1 million engines and only hear of 500 failures they consider that
acceptable. Especially if the failures come after 60-70K.
For instance I have owned about 15 4.3 engines. According to what you
read they are terrible engines that all have bad intake gaskets. I have
replaced a total of 3 sets and all of those were after 100K.
>
> Still no reply from FelPro I would like this pdf download they are
> supposed to have for free download on the NEW torque spec's, also in
> the past I always do a 2nd pass re-torque over night for "newly
> installed part settling" especially on head repairs were just the
> heads were resurfaced, need a good cleaning method for the block
> mating surface the Acetone based cleaners wont clean all the old
> stains from mating surface, thinking about some fine grade emery
> cloth, what say you guys.
No need to re-torque the new gaskets. They are compressed properly the
first time and have to have some give in order for the parts to move
once in use. HOWEVER if you are putting the engine together and it is
not in a heated garage then you may want to check the numbers after
running the engine the first time.
Don't use abrasives if you want the bearings to last. Clean off the old
crud with a scraper or a bristle disc (NOT A SCOTCH-BRITE type DISC).
Then wipe it down with some cleaner and button it up.
--
Steve W.
ctops.legal
>
> - Show quoted text -
Great reply Steve it's always so refreshing to get a response so
seasoned and informative and highly experienced as you obviously are,
thank you sir.
Curt
ctops.legal
Still no reply from FelPro on my inquiries, Steve my engine is a 6
cylinder engine 3.1L, my bud just droped off the HST 9957 PT-1 head
set he said the guy at the engine shop said this set also has an
beefed-up head gasket as well.
Curt
Steve W.
> Still no reply from FelPro on my inquiries, Steve my engine is a 6
> cylinder engine 3.1L, my bud just droped off the HST 9957 PT-1 head
> set he said the guy at the engine shop said this set also has an
> beefed-up head gasket as well.
>
>
>
> Curt
Not a surprise. Federal Mogul was never real big on talking to small
customers. Now if you wanted to order 500,000 sets!!!
That is the part number for the good gasket set.
The T means the set is the updated Perma-Torque parts.
GM uses a set made the same way as the service part. Except it includes
the bolts as well.
So will you be firing it up tonight???
--
Steve W.
ctops.legal
>
> - Show quoted text -
Photo HST-9957-PT1 --> http://img339.imageshack.us/i/hst9957pt1.jpg/
No documentation in the box concerning torque/tightening sequence
spec's (intake) or (heads), I guess I will call FelPro they have not
responded to my inquires. Also there is no end gaskets for the intake
manifold just a slip of paper that states "apply a 3/16" bead of the
RVT Black Silicone (included) accross the front and rear ends of the
block then torque while wet.
Going to have to borrow some tools from my bud, 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 inch
"inch pounds torque wrench" I know there is 1 horizontal bolt at each
end on the intake you have to torque with the 1/4 inch drive or use a
10mm 3/8 drive swivel socket.
Curt
ctops.legal
To cold got down to 21 degrees last night, start tomorrow, question to
re-torque the heads after initial start-up will have to leave the
exhaust manifold heat shields off the back head, how inportant is
these heat shields ?
Curt
Steve W.
GM hasn't used the end gaskets for a long time. 99% of the makers use
RTV. The trick is getting it correct the first time. What I do if I
haven't done a particular engine in a while is to take a small piece of
clay, set it on the ends and set the intake down. Gives you an idea of
how much room you have so you don't use excessive RTV.
>
> Going to have to borrow some tools from my bud, 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 inch
> "inch pounds torque wrench" I know there is 1 horizontal bolt at each
> end on the intake you have to torque with the 1/4 inch drive or use a
> 10mm 3/8 drive swivel socket.
>
> Curt
--
Steve W.
Steve W.
I would assume that you have heat on while your working on it?
The catch with doing the work in the cold is that when the engine heats
up the parts expand. That causes things to move more. What I would
probably do would be to stick the heads/intake inside and let them warm
up good. Take a couple of heat lamps and let them heat up the block for
a while. Then throw it together quick. Should take care of the problem.
Well, they only keep the engine heat from igniting the engine bay...
Seriously.
--
Steve W.
ctops.legal
>
> - Show quoted text -
I can mod the sheilds to get to the head bolts, 4 holes wont be a
problem as far as heat to the extent of causing a fire, still need the
full torque spec's.
Curt
Steve W.
>
> I can mod the sheilds to get to the head bolts, 4 holes wont be a
> problem as far as heat to the extent of causing a fire, still need the
> full torque spec's.
>
>
> Curt
My first post had the current specs in it.
Head bolts.
Torque Sequence per SB 02-06-01-003B
Issued April 2008
5 O 3 O 2 O 8 O
7 O 1 O 4 O 6 O
Start at 44 lb. ft.
Then 95 degrees additional.
Follow the numbers from 1-8
aarcuda69062
<a577163e-b334-45c9...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
"ctops.legal" <ctops...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> To cold got down to 21 degrees last night, start tomorrow, question to
> re-torque the heads after initial start-up
NO_NO_NO!!!
These are torque to yield bolts, they do not need re-torquing nor will
re-torquing them accomplish anything.
To re-torque, you'd need to back each bolt off and then re-torque it.
As soon as you back the head bolt off it is time to discard it. This
could go on forever taken literally.
Furthermore, the Fel-Pro head gaskets in that set are "PermaTorque" they
do not require re-torquing regardless of the type of head bolt used.
jim
"ctops.legal" wrote:
> > --
> > Steve W.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I can mod the sheilds to get to the head bolts, 4 holes wont be a
> problem as far as heat to the extent of causing a fire, still need the
> full torque spec's.
>
>
Is this what you are looking for ?
http://www.felpro-only.com/tec_notes/2009TorqueSpecsGuide.pdf
ctops.legal
Thank you I will put it all back together tomorrow, FelPro did send
the same pdf file.
Steve said that this is the right sequence:
Head bolts.
Torque Sequence per SB 02-06-01-003B
Issued April 2008
5 O 3 O 2 O 8 O
7 O 1 O 4 O 6 O
Am I not looking at a v8 not a v6 3.1L ?
E. Meyer
On 1/6/10 2:48 PM, in article
77d40b5f-fa81-46a2...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com,
"ctops.legal" <ctops...@gmail.com> wrote:
Assuming when you took the head off you found 8 bolts, that should answer
the question for you.
jim
That is the sequence Fel-pro lists for 2001-2005. apparently that is now
considered a better sequence than what was originally specified for
94-00.
See:
This page also says to use the newer torque spec amount of 44ft/lbs + 95
degrees.
ctops.legal
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yea the temps are going to be a little better tomorrow the heads will
be fine, the intake manifold bolts has a newer torque spec I would
guess, thank's guys I'm sure this discussion will be usefull to many
other people as well.
Curt
ctops.legal
>
> - Show quoted text -
My bud had an 1/2 & 3/8 drive troque I need the conversion to foot
lbs. on the intake bolts, don't have any INCH pound tools, he said he
has never needed one and he owns his own car repair shop for 20 years.
Curt
jim
"ctops.legal" wrote:
>
> My bud had an 1/2 & 3/8 drive troque I need the conversion to foot
> lbs. on the intake bolts, don't have any INCH pound tools, he said he
> has never needed one and he owns his own car repair shop for 20 years.
>
You convert by dividing by 12. For example: 60in/lbs = 5ft/lbs
Scott Dorsey
>
>My bud had an 1/2 & 3/8 drive troque I need the conversion to foot
>lbs. on the intake bolts, don't have any INCH pound tools, he said he
>has never needed one and he owns his own car repair shop for 20 years.
12 inches to the foot.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
ctops.legal
Yea I got the heads torqued today warmed up to almost 70 do the intake
tomorrow, just FYI the info on the head bolts box stated the old
spec's 33 ft. lbs. then 90 degrees, I went 44 ft. lbs. then 92 degrees
and the new sequence, feels good about it need a INCH to Ft. Lbs.
conversion & sequence for the lower intake bolts, thank's.
Curt
aarcuda69062
<d582829a-c964-4084...@a21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
"ctops.legal" <ctops...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My bud had an 1/2 & 3/8 drive troque I need the conversion to foot
> lbs. on the intake bolts, don't have any INCH pound tools, he said he
> has never needed one and he owns his own car repair shop for 20 years.
>
>
> Curt
You have no need for the 1/2" drive torque wrench, a very strong need
for a 1/4" drive torque wrench and no mention of an angle gauge.
Do you really expect a successful repair?
Steve W.
> My bud had an 1/2 & 3/8 drive troque I need the conversion to foot
> lbs. on the intake bolts, don't have any INCH pound tools, he said he
> has never needed one and he owns his own car repair shop for 20 years.
>
>
> Curt
>
Then he doesn't work on newer vehicles or in transmissions. I can think
of at least 50 vehicles that call for inch pound torque specs. The
reason being that it is almost impossible for you to convert inch pounds
from foot pounds at the correct levels.
Think of it this way a beam style torque wrench usually starts at 10
foot pounds, that is 120 inch pounds. So how do you torque bolts to 50
inch pounds with that wrench and KNOW that your in spec? You cannot.
Over torque one bolt and you can easily damage the intake.
Oh and FYI both Advance and Auto-Zone have tool loan programs.
--
Steve W.
ctops.legal
Yea I know the tool loan programs are cool I was going to use that
again, now I think I will being as you said this intake is to
inportant to guesstimate.
Curt
ctops.legal
Steve W.
You posted;
Service Bulletin 03-06-01-010C
Issued April 2008
dO bO aO cO
cO aO bO dO
a/b get initial torque of 62 lb. in. then
c/d get initial torque of 62 lb. in.
NEXT
a/b get final torque of 115 lb. in. then
c/d get final torque of 18 lb. ft.
May develop an oil leak if you don't torque the verticals first.
Recommended that intake bolts be replaced as well.
--
The verticals first as in a & b ?, and incidentally the "c" intake
bolts are recessed into the intake body a 10mm swivel socket 3/8 drive
will access, I was thinking of that so I want need to rent a 1/4 inch
pound torque wrench only a 3/8 drive ?
Curt
ctops.legal
>
> - Show quoted text -
Just found this; http://www.torkspec.com/torkspecme.aspx?KI=12-3.1L-191ci-V6
ctops.legal
>
> - Show quoted text -
The FelPro bolt for the 4 vert. on the lower intake manifold are
shorter than the GM bolt a good 3/16 of a inch, it forced me to use a
helicoil insert on 2 (the side of the thermostat) to much heat there
used lock-tight, fire her up today :-)
Curt
Nate Nagel
Awaiting reports of triumphant success.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
ctops.legal
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> The FelPro bolt for the 4 vert. on the lower intake manifold are
> shorter than the GM bolt a good 3/16 of a inch, it forced me to use a
> helicoil insert on 2 (the side of the thermostat) to much heat there
> used lock-tight, fire her up today :-)
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mission accomplished, words of advice to a novice mechanics doing this
repair, be sure and place the back lower heat shield for the exhaust
manifold in place before you set the rear head-with the manifold
attached, once you torque the head with the attached exhaust manifold
you can not get the back lower heat shield in place, and don't worry
about marking each electrical plugs (except the injectors), they can
only go one place.
Tools are the key if you got them the job is not a problem, it is a 3
to 5 day job if you want to do it right..
Curt
Steve W.
>
> Mission accomplished, words of advice to a novice mechanics doing this
> repair, be sure and place the back lower heat shield for the exhaust
> manifold in place before you set the rear head-with the manifold
> attached, once you torque the head with the attached exhaust manifold
> you can not get the back lower heat shield in place, and don't worry
> about marking each electrical plugs (except the injectors), they can
> only go one place.
>
> Tools are the key if you got them the job is not a problem, it is a 3
> to 5 day job if you want to do it right..
>
>
> Curt
3-5 DAYS!!!!
If I remember correctly book time is about 16 hours to do both head
gaskets. It's been a while though.
--
Steve W.
ctops.legal
Steve your talking about a professional garage setting / with all the
tools /, I guess myself now could could do it in 2 short days, you got
to let the Permatex High-Temp Red RTV Silicone (NOT THE BLACK which
was included with the FelPro head set), over-night drying in temp's
below 75 degree highs is a no brainer, those ends must seal perfect if
you want the job to last, anyways no fluid leaks or consumption
problems.