Trailblazer tie rod end removal problem

[George]

My brother's '05 TB tie rods failed inspection. The first came off the
knuckle, no problem. But, he can't get the rod thread to move in the
adjuster sleeve. (He did loosen the jam nut.) It's not very rusty -
the threads look pretty clean. We used moderate (propane) heat, and PB
Blaster. So far, nothing moves.

He says they've been replaced before. (Not by him.) One thing I'm
wondering is whether that work might have used some sort of thread lock.

Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks.

[gpsman]

On Jul 3, 8:33 am, George <gbecc...@verizon.net> wrote:
> We used moderate (propane) heat, and PB
> Blaster.  So far, nothing moves.

> Any ideas would be appreciated.

If it jams, force it. Google- tie rod fork.
-----

- gpsman

[George]

On Tue, 3 Jul 2012 06:15:12 -0700 (PDT), gpsman <gps...@driversmail.com>
wrote:

Sorry, if my description was unclear. It came off the knuckle OK. The
problem is at the other end, where it threads into the adjuster sleeve.

G

[Vic Smith]

On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 09:37:35 -0400, George <gbec...@verizon.net>
wrote:

I looked a bit in the TB forum, and they have some info.
Generally, no problems with frozen threads, but saw one that gave some
problem before letting loose. Didn't look hard, but you can.
Generally, they come out with PB and some force.
Anyway, I called my son, who's a front here pro.
Here's what he said.
Put the end back in the knuckle and put the nut back on tight enough
to hold it firm.
Make sure the jam nut is loose, then try to turn the sleeve - he said
vice-grips - a pipe wrench can bend it.
Some aftermarkets could have a jam nut on the inner, so watch for
that.
If it won't come loose, heat on the sleeve. If that doesn't work,
you'll have to cut it out and replace the inner too. He doesn't do a
lot of them, but aligned one last week with no issues.
Says it's a "different" setup than most, and that the outer end goes
into the inner end. Similar to some Jags, Hondas, and some Fords.
All I can say. Never dealt with that style.

--
Vic

[Runk]

More heat , more penetrating solvent , and about a 3 foot cheater bar worked
for me !
"George" <gbec...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:7gn4v711u9a21emhv...@4ax.com...

[Ashton Crusher]

On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 08:33:37 -0400, George <gbec...@verizon.net>
wrote:

Is it the kind of sleeve that's split so there is an opening
lengthwise? I've been able to turn them by putting a screwdriver in
that opening and levering on it. That both puts turning force on it
AND opening force because of the split. If it's not split then ignore
this.

[George]

On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 10:29:22 -0700, Ashton Crusher <de...@moore.net>
wrote:

No, it's solid. First time I've seen one like that. I guess it's a
truck thing.

[Paul in Houston TX]

Acetylene torch frees up just about anything.

[Steve W.]

Not a truck thing, just fewer parts and cheaper to build.

If you still haven't got it loose you could try the old two hammer
routine. Put a large hammer on one side and give the opposite side a hit
with a similar sized hammer. The shock wave through the part might break
it free. The same process can be used on the joint ends to free them
from the knuckles as well. The hit from each side tries to compress the
metal, the threads act like small wedges and try to spread the threads.
This usually breaks any bond they have UNLESS they have thread locker,
as that will flex just enough to stay attached. the same thing usually
works on the joint end as well, the impact frees the tapered section in
the same manner.

--
Steve W.

[Nate Nagel]

unless it's prohibitively expensive, buy a new sleeve and use a pipe
wrench to remove both the outer and the sleeve from the inner tie rod
end. Before you do, though, measure the distance between the pins
and/or count the threads showing at each TRE so you can get your new
assembly set at approximately the same distance as the old, so you're
not too horribly out of alignment (read: unsafe) driving to the
alignment shop after you're done.

Alternately, they make a tool to hold the sleeve (although many shops
use a pipe wrench, but that drives me apeshit) that looks like a pin spanner

http://www.summitracing.com/search/Department/Tools-Shop-Equipment/Part-Type/Wheel-Alignment-Tools/Wheel-Alignment-Tool-Type/Tie-rod-adjusting-tool/

you could try one of those and a pipe wrench on the old TRE before you
buy a new sleeve. But I bet a new sleeve is the same price or cheaper
than the tool.

You say "jam nuts" though - is this not the typical split sleeve with a
pinch clamp on each end? That is, it's an internally threaded tube with
jam nuts threaded on the TRE before installation, similar to a race/off
road aftermarket TRE? In that case, the tool I suggest above won't
work; but also you might get away by using a pipe wrench with only
cosmetic damage, but YMMV yadda yadda yadda (and if it looks
compromised, don't use it!)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

[Nate Nagel]

Your description was fine; I understood exactly what your issue was.

The problem is that gpsman is an idiot. And accuses others of having
poor reading comprehension, although he clearly failed to read your post
completely and accurately. My advice is to not apologize to him but
killfile him and move on.

[jim beam]

On 07/04/2012 09:48 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
> On 07/03/2012 09:37 AM, George wrote:
>> On Tue, 3 Jul 2012 06:15:12 -0700 (PDT), gpsman <gps...@driversmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Jul 3, 8:33 am, George <gbecc...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> We used moderate (propane) heat, and PB
>>>> Blaster. So far, nothing moves.
>>>> Any ideas would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> If it jams, force it. Google- tie rod fork.
>>
>> Sorry, if my description was unclear. It came off the knuckle OK. The
>> problem is at the other end, where it threads into the adjuster sleeve.
>>
>> G
>>
>
> Your description was fine; I understood exactly what your issue was.
>
> The problem is that gpsman is an idiot. And accuses others of having
> poor reading comprehension, although he clearly failed to read your post
> completely and accurately.

...said the functional illiterate trying to identify with a new
potential playmate - the only person on this group who isn't yet sick of
your shit.

> My advice is to not apologize to him but
> killfile him and move on.

quite the opposite, poseur boy - if anyone around here should be
kill-filed, it's you. globally.


--
fact check required

[jim beam]

On 07/04/2012 09:47 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
> On 07/03/2012 08:33 AM, George wrote:
>> My brother's '05 TB tie rods failed inspection. The first came off the
>> knuckle, no problem. But, he can't get the rod thread to move in the
>> adjuster sleeve. (He did loosen the jam nut.) It's not very rusty -
>> the threads look pretty clean. We used moderate (propane) heat, and PB
>> Blaster. So far, nothing moves.
>>
>> He says they've been replaced before. (Not by him.) One thing I'm
>> wondering is whether that work might have used some sort of thread lock.
>>
>> Any ideas would be appreciated.
>> Thanks.
>>
>
> unless it's prohibitively expensive, buy a new sleeve and use a pipe
> wrench to remove both the outer and the sleeve from the inner tie rod
> end. Before you do, though, measure the distance between the pins and/or
> count the threads showing at each TRE so you can get your new assembly
> set at approximately the same distance as the old, so you're not too
> horribly out of alignment (read: unsafe) driving to the alignment shop
> after you're done.
>
> Alternately, they make a tool to hold the sleeve (although many shops
> use a pipe wrench, but that drives me apeshit) that looks like a pin
> spanner
>
> http://www.summitracing.com/search/Department/Tools-Shop-Equipment/Part-Type/Wheel-Alignment-Tools/Wheel-Alignment-Tool-Type/Tie-rod-adjusting-tool/

hmmm, let's see. on the one hand. we have poseur boy trying to make out
like he's read an article about suspension. on the other, we have
functional professionals who do this stuff for a living.

http://www.eclecticmotorworks.com/midrack.html

>
>
> you could try one of those and a pipe wrench on the old TRE before you
> buy a new sleeve. But I bet a new sleeve is the same price or cheaper
> than the tool.
>
> You say "jam nuts" though - is this not the typical split sleeve with a
> pinch clamp on each end? That is, it's an internally threaded tube with
> jam nuts threaded on the TRE before installation, similar to a race/off
> road aftermarket TRE? In that case, the tool I suggest above won't work;
> but also you might get away by using a pipe wrench with only cosmetic
> damage, but YMMV yadda yadda yadda (and if it looks compromised, don't
> use it!)

translation: "i don't know what the FUCK i'm talking about."


--
fact check required

[jim beam]

heat above ~250°C will release common blue and red loctite so i wouldn't
worry about that.

rust however, the sweaty hand variety that is not uncommon on parts that
have already been replaced as you say, will require a lot more.

>
> Any ideas would be appreciated.
> Thanks.

more heat, more leverage.


--
fact check required

[jim beam]

indeed.

> This usually breaks any bond they have UNLESS they have thread locker,
> as that will flex just enough to stay attached. the same thing usually
> works on the joint end as well, the impact frees the tapered section in
> the same manner.
>

a little heat takes care of any thread lock.


--
fact check required

[Nate Nagel]

Um, fucktard, I have rebuilt plenty of my own suspensions. Which is
why, when I take a car to the shop for the final alignment, and my
freshly cleaned and painted parts (especially ones that are 50 years old
or more, and hard to replace, yet somehow managed to survive up until
now without being molested by the wrong tools) come back with pipe
wrench scars on them, I get all sorts of irate. And this has obviously
happened more than once, otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it.

Of course, that doesn't bother a third rate poser hack like yourself.

Or, you don't know what you're talking about.

Or, both. (the most likely option.)

If you like having the underside of your vehicle looking like it's been
worked on by a hack, by all means use a pipe wrench. It's not like
those tie rod sleeves and other important bits have an important
function or anything, or that a hollow tube with slits in it could be
compromised in any meaningful way by being crushed by a pipe wrench.

>>
>>
>> you could try one of those and a pipe wrench on the old TRE before you
>> buy a new sleeve. But I bet a new sleeve is the same price or cheaper
>> than the tool.
>>
>> You say "jam nuts" though - is this not the typical split sleeve with a
>> pinch clamp on each end? That is, it's an internally threaded tube with
>> jam nuts threaded on the TRE before installation, similar to a race/off
>> road aftermarket TRE? In that case, the tool I suggest above won't work;
>> but also you might get away by using a pipe wrench with only cosmetic
>> damage, but YMMV yadda yadda yadda (and if it looks compromised, don't
>> use it!)
>
> translation: "i don't know what the FUCK i'm talking about."

Clearly, you haven't a fucking clue what the fuck I'm talking about;
that's painfully obvious. Anyone who's worked on both traditional older
cars and also modified racey or off-road stuff could easily visualize
the two different types of tie rods (sleeve/clamp vs. non-split tube or
rod used with jam nuts) that I was describing above. It's also obvious
that you and gpstard are two peas in a pod; you two should get a room
and enjoy your little mutual masturbation society and leave technical
groups to those with actual technical knowledge.

I'll give you this, some of your posts give the impression that you've
had some book learning. However, the vast majority of your posts also
give the impression that you haven't spun a wrench often if at all.

[gpsman]

On Jul 4, 10:09 pm, Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
> I have rebuilt plenty of my own suspensions.  Which is
> why, when I take a car to the shop for the final alignment, and my
> freshly cleaned and painted parts (especially ones that are 50 years old
> or more, and hard to replace, yet somehow managed to survive up until
> now without being molested by the wrong tools) come back with pipe
> wrench scars on them, I get all sorts of irate.

Toward whom?

>  And this has obviously
> happened more than once, otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it.

And it still hasn't occurred to you to not crank them down so tight
for a trip to the alignment shop.

> If you like having the underside of your vehicle looking like it's been
> worked on by a hack, by all means use a pipe wrench.

This is an '05 Trailblazer.

> It's not like
> those tie rod sleeves and other important bits have an important
> function or anything, or that a hollow tube with slits in it could be
> compromised in any meaningful way by being crushed by a pipe wrench.

If it breaks it needed to be replaced anyway.

> Clearly, you haven't a fucking clue what the fuck I'm talking about;
> that's painfully obvious.

Your subject never changes; poorly disguised self aggrandizement.

> Anyone who's worked on both traditional older
> cars and also modified racey or off-road stuff could easily visualize
> the two different types of tie rods (sleeve/clamp vs. non-split tube or
> rod used with jam nuts) that I was describing above.

> It's also obvious
> that you and gpstard are two peas in a pod; you two should get a room
> and enjoy your little mutual masturbation society and leave technical
> groups to those with actual technical knowledge.

You don't even do your own brakes.

From: Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech,alt.trucks.ford
Subject: noise/vibration in front end of '93 Ford F-150 please help!
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2011 09:09:30 -0400

"...had a full brake job done on
the truck (a note from my last safety inspection said that the rear
shoes were almost at the wear limit, so I replaced everything,
because
it pulled a little and the front rotors were warped) including all
hardware and hoses, and had the front wheel bearings replaced (that
needed to be done at purchase as well.)"
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.trucks.ford/msg/cc8922714d07b1f5?hl=en&dmode=source

> I'll give you this, some of your posts give the impression that you've
> had some book learning.  However, the vast majority of your posts also
> give the impression that you haven't spun a wrench often if at all.

Said the guy impersonating a mechanic with the long boring story that
eventually includes a question about his friend's girlfriend's
Xterra's hubs (that omits, surprise, the most basic fundamentals and
the plaintive wail of mechanics and parts men the world over: YEAR?
MAKE? MODEL?)

And, you have no idea how anyone might detect you don't know shit from
apple butter.
-----

- gpsman

[jim beam]

to impersonate, he'd have to be recognizable as acting in some way like
one. and as you've just illustrated, he can't even impersonate a wannabe.

> with the long boring story that
> eventually includes a question about his friend's girlfriend's

not /his/ girlfriend, that's for sure.

> Xterra's hubs (that omits, surprise, the most basic fundamentals and
> the plaintive wail of mechanics and parts men the world over: YEAR?
> MAKE? MODEL?)
>
> And, you have no idea how anyone might detect you don't know shit from
> apple butter.

of course he has no idea - he's just a poseur-boy retard. and a
goddamned killfile lying hypocrite to boot.


--
fact check required

[gpsman]

On Jul 5, 1:45 am, jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 07/04/2012 08:54 PM, gpsman wrote:
> > On Jul 4, 10:09 pm, Nate Nagel<njna...@roosters.net>  wrote:
>

> >> I'll give you this, some of your posts give the impression that you've
> >> had some book learning. However, the vast majority of your posts also
> >> give the impression that you haven't spun a wrench often if at all.
>
> > Said the guy impersonating a mechanic
>
> to impersonate, he'd have to be recognizable as acting in some way like
> one.  and as you've just illustrated, he can't even impersonate a wannabe.

Mea culpa. That should have read "attempting to impersonate"...

My favorite line in his Xterra post is, "Please tell me that these are
automatic hubs...".
------

- gpsman

[Nate Nagel]

hah. how did I know that would happen. When I said "get a room" I
meant somewhere other than a technical newsgroup, so the two of you
could wallow in ignorance in private. Unless you *like* embarrassing
yourself in public.

On a completely unrelated topic, is there a newsreader where if I
install the same client on multiple PCs, my preferences and perhaps
killfiles will be stored in the "cloud" and not locally so that I don't
have to copy them from PC to PC whenever I switch? As of right now I've
got 3 different machines, both of which have multiple OS partitions. No
reason at all that I'm asking of course.

nate

[Brent]

Looks like GM couldn't be bothered to some hex flats on the tie rod end.

http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=55696

(according to the section header this for 02-09)

From the point you are at, what I would do is put the tie rod end back
into the knuckle and just snug down the nut. This will keep it from
flopping around and make it easier to bust it loose. With the end out of
the knuckle flopping around it's just making it more difficult. It's a
ball joint so it will make that first couple degrees of rotation to
break loose while attached to the knuckle. The idea here is just to get
it stable and easier to work with.

Put a good long wrench on the big hex of the part that remains on the
car, on the rack. See (step 2) of the link for photo. Loosen the
lock/jam nut all the way so it runs up against the unthreaded tie rod
end casting. Where it can't turn out any further. Now it should want to
turn the tie rod end with it. Put a long fixed wrench on this nut. Get
the two wrenches just a few degrees apart so you can squeeze them
together so the tie rod end loosens.

An alternative is wedge the first wrench and the writer in the thread
cited says it can be done and then just put as much force as it takes to
break the tie rod end loose on the other wrench (without causing damage
of course).

If it is stuck so bad that the nut starts threading the casting of the
tie rod end then you'll need something to grip the casting instead.

Once the tie rod end has broken free and turns, remove it from the
knuckle and spin it out completely.

[jim beam]

that your behavior disgusts others enough that they'll bother to take
the time to give you a negative reaction is clearly something you're
simply not smart enough to figure out. and /definitely/ not take
ownership of.

as for accusing others of precisely what /you/ are doing, well, that
takes a special kind of retardation.

>
> On a completely unrelated topic, is there a newsreader where if I
> install the same client on multiple PCs, my preferences and perhaps
> killfiles will be stored in the "cloud" and not locally so that I don't
> have to copy them from PC to PC whenever I switch?

that's not a newsreader thing, retard, you simply need to know about
setting up virtual directories. and then using them.

> As of right now I've
> got 3 different machines, both of which have multiple OS partitions.

uh, huh, of course you have - you know so much about all your "multiple
OS partitions", you haven't a clue about how to do the basic sysadmin on
them.

> No
> reason at all that I'm asking of course.
>
> nate
>
> nate

only one signature required, retard. but we can't expect the busy
public servant to stop wasting taxpayer dollars on usenet during office
hours long enough to figure out how to administrate a sig file, let
alone a killfile.


--
fact check required

[jim beam]

here's another little nugget of nate arguing with people trying to put
him out of his misery on how to use a dumb phone:
<http://www.wirelessforums.org/alt-cellular-motorola/any-way-stop-annoying-razr-behavior-45819.html>

not as good as your trunk organizer post though.


--
fact check required