modine radiators are garbage
David Margrave
Hello,
I have reached the conclusion that modine aftermarket radiators are
worthless garbage. Why did I buy one? It cost half what the dealer
wanted for a new rad, and the guy at the rad shop said that Modine was a
good made-in-the-USA quality brand. I have been servicing my own
vehicles for over 10 years, so this is not a case of a clueless beginner
doing something wrong. I'll share my little story of frustration and
aggravation with you.
Today I pulled the stock radiator in my '95 dodge dakota 4x4, and put in
a modine aftermarket unit. I started to fill it with coolant and it
immediately started leaking at the female threaded fitting where the
transmission cooler line screws into the lower tank. The fitting is
improperly joined to the tank. It has some cheezy looking pressed-in
star washer-type thing to mate the female threaded fitting to the tank.
Although the dakota's stock radiator is a plastic tank/metal core job,
at least it's fittings are sturdy.
To say I was ticked off would be an understatement. So I took the
modine piece of crap out and put the old one back in. The old one has a
very slow leak somewhere and can be driven for a bit longer.
When I bought the modine piece of crap from a local rad shop, they said
it was made in the USA. I later discovered 'Made in Thailand' on the
box. "Oh well," I thought, "I'll see how it works". I thought I was
getting something a bit higher quality than you'd pick up at the local
big chain autoparts store.
I have heard others say that modine used to be a quality brand. That
may have been true in the past, but today I think modine is pretty much
worthless garbage. I'll go with a stock radiator from the dodge dealer
and not worry about the unpredictable quality of Modine, thank you very
much.
I'm taking it back to the rad shop and hopefully getting my money back.
But I'm worried that they will pull the standard 'no refunds on
installed parts, regardless of how defective. Exchanges only'.
Honestly I'm not interested in an exchange, because I'm convinced this
modine rebadged made-overseas garbage is worthless crap, and I'm not
going to put myself in a situation where I have to trust it (like out
camping). So it looks like I may be screwed, but hopefully I can
prevent others from making the same mistake.
Dave Margrave
George Daleo
no trouble getting them to honor Modines LIFETIME warranty. My Modine
lasted about 3 years and got a FREE replacement.
Kevin Mouton
"David Margrave" <dav...@eskimo.com> wrote in message
news:3CB0107D...@eskimo.com...
I won't say that Modine radiators are any better than most others, but I
must say you are certainly getting upset over a very minor situation. No
matter what brand you buy, there is always a possibility of it having a
defect. Unfortunately, that is the way it is with assembly line and
automated processes. Everything manufactured now days has a certain
percentage of faulty units. Some manufacturers have better quality control
than others, but they all have some products that make it to the consumer
with defects.
Now you're getting all worked up over weather or not the seller will give
you a refund. Have you even called them to ask about their return policy, or
did you inquire about such things before making the purchase, like any wise
consumer should do? With your level of paranoia, I don't see how you could
ever be comfortable with any radiator, knowing now that even the OEM
products can have defects too. After all, that is what warranties are for,
and I'm pretty sure the Modine radiator has a better warranty than OEM.
I hope you do not go through life fretting over every little thing that
might go wrong. Lighten up and remember Murphy's 50/90 law of averages. "
If there is half a chance that something will go wrong, then 90% of the time
it will."
--
Kevin Mouton
"If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy"
Red Green
Dean Dardwin
Well said! BTW, Modine has a LIFETIME warranty.
Dean
Roger Brown
with it. I did have the opportunity to buy a new Modine, but it was the plastic/aluminum type and was not an exact fit for my
vehicle so I opted to have the old unit repaired. The shop had no problems taking back the plastic/aluminum unit.
David Margrave
radiator is a cheap piece of garbage that has to be pulled and
replaced frequently, the warranty is of secondary importance. I want
something that is sturdy and reliable and just works so I don't have
to continually screw around with it. My time is worth something too,
and no warranty covers that.
My stock plastic-aluminum Dakota rad has lasted nearly 8 years.
Nothing to brag about, but it's certainly better than the three years
a previous poster mentioned for his modine radiator.
Regarding the radiator shop's policies, I knew when I bought it that
it was repair or exchange only. But I was also told I was getting a
made-in-the-USA product. Now that I know it's a cheezy, poorly made
import, I've changed my mind. I'm not interested in getting another
modine. I want to go with a stock rad from the dodge dealer and get
my money back for the modine. I'll find out tomorrow.
Those of you who think modine is a quality brand must have got units
that were made in the USA before they moved production overseas, or
started buying from the same overseas factories as the no-name brands
you get at the chain stores.
Dean Dardwin <d...@dxd.com> wrote in message news:<3CB04A70...@dxd.com>...
Dean Dardwin
I think you are missing the point. Just because something is made in the
USA does not mean it's of superior quality. Conversely, just because
something is made overseas does not mean it's junk. The computer you are
using, even if assembled in the US, has 90% or more of it's components
made overseas. All TVs are made overseas, etc.
Human beings are imperfect so by definition, anything they do is
imperfect. So you got one bad radiator. So what? Are you going to swear
off US made stuff the next time you get a bad US made _____________?
BTW, I've installed dozens of Modine radiators... all were problem-free.
Dean
David
conclusion that all of them were bad?
I have used several Modine Radiators lately and never had a single one bad
out of about 20 or so. So I would say they are the best radiator to use
from my sample of 20, which would also be too small of a sample to really
make this conclusion. I like them because the local dealer will do a no
hassle exchange during the lifetime warranty that Modine offers.
All manufactures occasionally have a bad one come off the production line.
Then there is the chance for shipping damage. As a result I always cap off
the lower hose fitting, fill it with water, and pressure test them, to 25 to
30 psi, before going through all the work of install and filling it with
coolant. Probably because I do this I will be lucky and never find a bad
new one. I just don't want the wasted coolant if one does turn out being
bad.
David
David Margrave <dav...@eskimo.com> wrote in message
news:3CB0107D...@eskimo.com...
>
PA-ter
buy if you want one. I've dealt with many warehouses that handle them
& they're not that bad most of the time. Got an all metal replacement
in my S-10 for about 4 years now & paid only $67 bucks for it. The
problem here, though is that he went the extra bucks to buy a quality
unit & got reboxed cheap sh*t anyway. I'd be pi$$ed too!!! Good luck.
David Margrave
Well, I'll take it back for a replacement and ask the shop to do a
pressure test on the replacement unit so I don't have to go back yet
again...
If it turns out that the replacement I get is a quality unit that
lasts years and years, I'll gladly retract all the bad things I said
about modine. I have my doubts though.
Also the upper hose fitting was damaged during shipment. I didn't
notice until I installed it, and wouldn't have cared if it had worked
however.
Dave
"David" <dkuh...@locl.net.REMOVE> wrote in message news:<3cb09...@news.greennet.net>...
Joseph A. Zupko
Guy" <jim...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:p6b1bu0fggc276o5j...@4ax.com...
> The last Modine I bought was labeled "made in India". It was
> disappointing when I saw that as I had thought it was made in the US.
> It's not leaking though.
Robert Hancock
how many of the actual components are made there..
--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from hanc...@nospamshaw.ca
Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/
"Dean Dardwin" <d...@dxd.com> wrote in message
news:3CB09D1F...@dxd.com...
meirman
Hancock" <hanc...@nospamshaw.ca> posted:
>Off-topic, but actually, Toshiba at least assembles TVs in the US, not sure
>how many of the actual components are made there..
Further OT, but isn't Toshiba the company that sold our silent
submarine propeller secrets to the Soviet Union? (It is.)
Now their submarines are much quieter than they used to be, to our
disadvantage.
I realize you were only being thorough and not specifically praising
them for this, but this is one case in which I don't think buying
American is a good idea.
http://americanhistory.si.edu/subs/anglesdangles/taming2.html
http://www.reagan.com/HotTopics.main/HotMike/document-2.16.2001.2.html
http://www.etext.org/Politics/World.Systems/wsn-archives/11-98
Most of this one is boring but it says "In 198x, for example, the
Japanese company Toshiba was selling super-silent submarine propeller
blades** to the Soviet Union, contrary to US wishes. The US banned
Toshiba from the US market, and the Soviet contracts were promptly
cancelled."
This makes me think assembling tv's in the USA was how Toshiba got
around being banned from the US market.
**the milling equipment to make them actually, I believe.
mei...@QQQerols.com If you email me, please let me know whether
remove the QQQ or not you are posting the same letter.
meirman
dav...@eskimo.com (David Margrave) posted:
>Guys, you're missing the point with the warranty. If a modine
>radiator is a cheap piece of garbage that has to be pulled and
You have an "if" but in fact you're assuming and you've concluded that
it is a cheap piece of garbage. The others are saying that every
brand has some defects, and I'm saying you can't draw conclusions from
one bad radiator.
>replaced frequently, the warranty is of secondary importance. I want
>something that is sturdy and reliable and just works so I don't have
>to continually screw around with it. My time is worth something too,
>and no warranty covers that.
>
>My stock plastic-aluminum Dakota rad has lasted nearly 8 years.
>Nothing to brag about, but it's certainly better than the three years
>a previous poster mentioned for his modine radiator.
Yes, three years is not much.
>Regarding the radiator shop's policies, I knew when I bought it that
>it was repair or exchange only. But I was also told I was getting a
>made-in-the-USA product. Now that I know it's a cheezy, poorly made
>import, I've changed my mind.
But you don't know that. Besides the one leak, you don't know that
the manufacturing techniques you observed are poor, and maybe they are
what everyone is doing now.
> I'm not interested in getting another
>modine. I want to go with a stock rad from the dodge dealer and get
>my money back for the modine. I'll find out tomorrow.
>
>Those of you who think modine is a quality brand must have got units
>that were made in the USA before they moved production overseas, or
>started buying from the same overseas factories as the no-name brands
>you get at the chain stores.
Maybe it was made in Thailand, Iowa.
>Dean Dardwin <d...@dxd.com> wrote in message news:<3CB04A70...@dxd.com>...
>> Kevin,
>>
>> Well said! BTW, Modine has a LIFETIME warranty.
>>
>> Dean
>>
>>
Nate B
"Kevin Mouton"
> No matter what brand you buy, there is
> always a possibility of it having a defect.
Well, you are indeed correct.
> Unfortunately, that is the way it is with
> assembly line and automated processes.
...and poorly run companies...but yes, still true.
> Everything manufactured now days has a certain
> percentage of faulty units. Some manufacturers
> have better quality control than others, but they all
> have some products that make it to the consumer
> with defects.
Now here's the rub. Some defects are pretty easy to ship. Sometimes parts
break slightly above the factory tested load but below advertised spec, for
example. Sometimes visually inspected parts get shipped then later returned
as defects. Sometimes customers have a pickier eye than the final
inspector's.
However, this is a radiator with a big hole in it. Can we say someone was
sleeping at the pressure tester? Hey, a small leak may pass by a pressure
tester, but a major leak strongly suggests the lack of even having a
pressure test. Furthermore, this is failure of the radiator's primary
funtion - to hold water. It doesn't. That's bad. We're not talking about
paint falling off here. It doesn't indicate well that Modine can deliver
good product.
Who made the thing and where should be irrelevant. An American factory
worker can be just as lazy and worthless and an uneducated foriegn speaking
SE Asian. These issues should be invisible to the customer. What counts is
how the place is run, what controls are in place, how much workers like
their boss because of how they are treated, etc.
FWIW, I have had a bad Modine radiator myself. The thing leaked right out
of the box.
> Lighten up and remember Murphy's 50/90 law of averages. "
> If there is half a chance that something will go wrong, then 90% of the
time
> it will."
Fortunately, companies that stay in business and do well usually deliver 3-6
sigma - which is much more than 10% or 50% good product.
I'm with the original poster - not impressed with Modine. However, the
price of a dealer's radiator has steered me toward Modine + 2 part epoxy in
the past.
- Nate
David Allen
Soviets to make those propellers. Whatever the case, thankfully, most of
those propellers are rusting in port today.
David Margrave
Yeah, I only had a sample of one out of one, but if it were a 'seven
sigma' manufacturing process, I should be more likely to hit the
lottery than get a defect (not really, but you know what I mean!). I
have a suspicion we're more in the two-to-three sigma range.
The local rad shop seems to be a good bunch of folks. Although they
wouldn't refund a part that has been installed (understandably),
they're going to fix it, pressure test it, etc. I'm not entirely
happy with the idea of using this rad, but compared to $400 for a
stock plastic/alum rad from the dodge dealer, I'll give the modine a
chance and use it, but if this damn thing strands me just once, just
one time, I am swearing off this brand for life!
Dave
'95 5.2L Dakota 4x4
"Nate B" <na...@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<a8skh2$ulgiu$1...@ID-82914.news.dfncis.de>...
meirman
Allen" <dallen0...@san.rr.com> posted:
>I thought they sold the milling machines that made it possible for the
>Soviets to make those propellers.
Yeah. By the end of the post, and reading those sites, I got to that
point. In order not to be totally wrong, I'm going to look at it that
the milling machines had embedded in them the secret of how to make
propellers. I think that's fair.
> Whatever the case, thankfully, most of
>those propellers are rusting in port today.
You're right. No thanks to Toshiba for that.
meirman
B" <na...@nospam.com> posted:
>
>I'm with the original poster - not impressed with Modine. However, the
>price of a dealer's radiator has steered me toward Modine + 2 part epoxy in
>the past.
That seems reasonable to me.
I think I once bought a junkyard radiator because I recalled how much
a dealer one was. That wasted a bunch of my time, and Modine sounds
like a good compromise.
But that means that Modine is cheaper than the dealer, even if it is
more expensive that some other after-market rads. I think someone
suggested he had paid as much as at a dealer.
Do they really water test new radiators? If so, how come no water
dribbles out of them when you open the box. Maybe they air test them.
With fancy equipment, they should be able to detect a leak, I think.
But it's also not that hard to take one back to the store that sold
it.
Stan
> Allen" <dallen0...@san.rr.com> posted:
>
> >I thought they sold the milling machines that made it possible for the
> >Soviets to make those propellers.
>
> Yeah. By the end of the post, and reading those sites, I got to that
> point. In order not to be totally wrong, I'm going to look at it that
> the milling machines had embedded in them the secret of how to make
> propellers. I think that's fair.
If memory serves me correctly, Konsberg made the multi-axis milling
machines, while Toshiba supplied the software to control them with.
In any case, both companies sold out the West at the height of the
Cold War for a few pieces of gold, and they more than deserved the
banning they subsequently received.
Although Konsberg doesn't make consumer goods, I have refused to buy
anything Toshiba makes ever since.
Victor Smith
>In rec.autos.makers.chrysler on Mon, 08 Apr 2002 19:48:55 GMT "David
>Allen" <dallen0...@san.rr.com> posted:
>
>>I thought they sold the milling machines that made it possible for the
>>Soviets to make those propellers.
>
>Yeah. By the end of the post, and reading those sites, I got to that
>point. In order not to be totally wrong, I'm going to look at it that
>the milling machines had embedded in them the secret of how to make
>propellers. I think that's fair.
>
>> Whatever the case, thankfully, most of
>>those propellers are rusting in port today.
>
>You're right. No thanks to Toshiba for that.
>
I remember feeling the same way you do about Toshiba.
I spent 3 1/2 years on an ASW can chasing Soviet subs, perfectly willing
to blow them out of the water. But the last Russian sub I read about went
down with all hands, and I said a prayer for them.
Time goes by, and with American companies shipping jobs overseas in search
of the cheapest labor they can find, I always question my loyalties.
If Toshiba is giving Americans work assembling TV's, I'll buy those TV's.
--Vic