Nitromethane as a motor fuel additive?
xopher
Falcon, and it went extremely fast, but didn't last too long. Is this for
real, and could it be used as a performance booster non-destructively in a
stock engine?
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Bruce Augenstein
>
> Someone told me they added nitromethane to the gas tank on a 6cyl. Ford
> Falcon, and it went extremely fast, but didn't last too long. Is this for
> real, and could it be used as a performance booster non-destructively in a
> stock engine?
No, and no, rspectively.
Bruce
Harry H Conover
: No, and no, rspectively.
: Bruce
Wrong, Bruce. That's what they burn in top-full dragsters (and why it's
called "Nitro Fuel").
Increases hp enormously, at the expense of engine life. I've heard
stories of it burning right through the top of a piston.
Also, mixed with alcohol and castor oil, it's used to fuel high-end
performance model airplane engines.
Harry C.
David J Heisterberg
>engine. I thought drag race cars and Indy cars used an alcohol/nitromethane
Indy cars run pretty much straight methanol. Top fuel dragsters run
nitromethane -- about 10 gallons for a quarter mile! I'm told it has
a low octane number and detonates like crazy in a run. But top fuelers
go through several sets of pistons, rings, etc. in a meet.
--
David J. Heisterberg I am trying to do two things, viz.
Department of Chemistry be a radical and not be a fool.
The Ohio State University -- James A. Garfield
Mike Keitz
Bruce Augenstein <Augen...@MR4DEC.ENET.DEC.COM> wrote:
>xop...@ot.com (xopher) wrote:
>>
>> Someone told me they added nitromethane to the gas tank on a 6cyl. Ford
>> Falcon, and it went extremely fast, but didn't last too long. Is this for
>> real, and could it be used as a performance booster non-destructively in a
>> stock engine?
>
>No, and no, rspectively.
>
>Bruce
two being alcohol (probably methyl) and oil (usually castor)). The low grade
fuel for ordinary use contains <10% nitromethane. More expensive fuel is
25-40% and I think race fliers use fuel that is almost all nitromethane and
oil with very little if any alcohol. Fuel with more "nitro" in it will
definitely make the engine run faster. The engines for high nitro fuel are
not made any differently (compression ratio, etc.) than the ones for low nitro
fuel. However, a model airplane engine is a very strange beast, having only
one adjustment, and I don't know if any connections can be made to a car
carburetor to make it work well. There are probably better ways to make a
street car go faster.
-Mike
Lee Pollack
A guy at work used nitromethane in his very expensive Ford Cobra engine and
promptly blew the bottom end out of the block in short order. The engine has
to be built for "NO" or forget it. LEE
John Hartman
Don't confuse nitromethane with nitrous oxide. Very different
substances. Nitrous oxide (N20) is used as an oxidant, i.e. it's not a
fuel but it helps you burn more fuel and thus make more power. It both
cools the intake charge as it expands, and it breaks down into N2 and
O, resulting in a higher percentage of oxygen than the atmosphere.
Nitromethane is the nasty stuff they burn in dragsters and model
airplanes. It has a high energy content, and detonates easily and
explosively. Furthermore, it disolves things like rubber, and when
combined with motor oil forms an explosive. That's why they change
the engine oil after every run. I love the oil/filter commercials where
John Force tells us how good his oil is. His engine probably doesn't
turn over 1000 times between oil changes.
--
John
Harry H Conover
: In article <3qkiev$7...@sundog.tiac.net> con...@max.tiac.net (Harry H Conover) writes:
: A guy at work used nitromethane in his very expensive Ford Cobra engine and
: promptly blew the bottom end out of the block in short order. The engine has
: to be built for "NO" or forget it. LEE
Please learn to cite and quote correctly. While I have no disagreement
with your post, I didn't write what is attributed to me.
Harry C.
Bruce Augenstein
>: Bruce
>Wrong, Bruce. That's what they burn in top-full dragsters (and why it's
>called "Nitro Fuel").
Harry, you should re-read the original post. The gentleman was asking about
somebody running a 6-cyl Falcon on nitro (and doing OK) and whether one could
expect success with a stock engine running this stuff.
"No and no..." is definitely the correct response. There was no 6-cyl Falcon
that did well running on nitro (except for a single, glorious instant :-) ),
and there isn't a stocker around that can use it successfully.
Nitromethane was definitely invented by a Satanist :-), but it does right
smart things in T/F.
Bruce
Evan Couche
:* xop...@ot.com (xopher) wrote:
:* >
:* > Someone told me they added nitromethane to the gas tank on a 6cyl. Ford
:* > Falcon, and it went extremely fast, but didn't last too long. Is this for
:* > real, and could it be used as a performance booster non-destructively in a
:* > stock engine?
:* No, and no, rspectively.
:* Bruce
Perhaps... and perhaps not.
Nitromethane *is* used as a fuel in drag racing - in conjunction with
methanol. Drag engines don't wear too well, partly because they pull way
more revs than is healthy, and partly because the heat generated starts
melting things by the end of the quarter.
Don't use it in a street car.
--
ObDisclaimer: "No, they're all *MY* opinions - unless I say otherwise."
Cyberius Teaser/aka: Evan Couche/Xstudent: BApSci CIS at levels.unisa.edu.au
currently residing at: cybe...@byron.apana.org.au
Carl Stevens (e00680)
: In article <ltwD9I...@netcom.com>, l...@netcom.com says...
: >>You would be better off to run your engine on av-gas.
Snip (and somebody's quote left out ?)
: > As for using av-gas: there is essentially no difference
: >in energy content among the various grades of gasoline. Those with a
: >higher octane rating (which is what I assumed was meant by av-gas, but
: >the now common 100LL is almost indistinguishable from service station
Not quite. Avgas contains lots of lead. 100LL contains even more lead (even
though it says LL or LowLead) DO NOT USE AVGAS in your car if it runs on
unleaded fuel as it will knock out your catalitic converter _very_ quickly.
Replacing these puppies is expensive.
--
Carl Stevens _ Long EZ N223MM
cste...@ladc.lockheed.com _\_/^\_/_ 4 Young Eagles flown
My opinions are my own. _____/_/_/|\_\_\_____
J.A.Harvey
(Evan Couche) writes:
>
>Quoth Bruce Augenstein (Augen...@MR4DEC.ENET.DEC.COM):
>:* xop...@ot.com (xopher) wrote:
>:* >
>:* > Someone told me they added nitromethane to the gas tank on a
6cyl. Ford
>:* > Falcon, and it went extremely fast, but didn't last too long. Is
this for
>:* > real, and could it be used as a performance booster
non-destructively in a
>:* > stock engine?
>
>:* No, and no, rspectively.
>
>:* Bruce
>
>Perhaps... and perhaps not.
>
>Nitromethane *is* used as a fuel in drag racing - in conjunction with
>methanol. Drag engines don't wear too well, partly because they pull
way
>more revs than is healthy, and partly because the heat generated
starts
>melting things by the end of the quarter.
>
>Don't use it in a street car.
>--
There are several Nitro-parrafin based fuel additives on the market
that can be successfully used in a gasoline burning engine. However,
the amount of Nitro found in these additives is minimal. While the
poster is partially correct in stating that Nitro is used in drag
racing engines , it is not necessary to combine Nitromethate with
methanol. A Fuel(nitro) motor will operate quite well on 100%
nitromethane. Considerations as to weather and track condition will
determine whether or not any methanol will be added to reduce
percentage.
Drag racing engines of the fuel variety don't wear from excessive
revs,( a fuel motor might see 7500 in the lights) but rather the
viloent nature of Nitromethane leads to parts attrition, primarily
burned valves pistons and the occasional hydraulic'd engine.
You could set your street car up to run Nitromethane, although at
current prices that wuold be a real no brainer. Methanol fueled engines
require approximately 2 1/2 times the amount of gasoline to run. Nitro
methane engines used in Top fuel have delivery systems (fuel pumps)
that deliver 50 - 60 GPM. Without getting into the technical aspects of
Nitromethane, suffice it to say that it is a fun idea, but completely
unrealistic.
Hope this helps .
Jim.
MR GA CAMBRAY
>From: cybe...@byron.apana.org.au (Evan Couche)
>Subject: Re: Nitromethane as a motor fuel additive?
>Date: 5 Jun 1995 04:32:20 +0930
>Quoth Bruce Augenstein (Augen...@MR4DEC.ENET.DEC.COM):
>:* xop...@ot.com (xopher) wrote:
>:* >
>:* > Someone told me they added nitromethane to the gas tank on a 6cyl. Ford
>:* > Falcon, and it went extremely fast, but didn't last too long. Is this for
>:* > real, and could it be used as a performance booster non-destructively in a
>:* > stock engine?
>:* No, and no, rspectively.
>:* Bruce
>Perhaps... and perhaps not.
>Nitromethane *is* used as a fuel in drag racing - in conjunction with
>methanol. Drag engines don't wear too well, partly because they pull way
>more revs than is healthy, and partly because the heat generated starts
>melting things by the end of the quarter.
>Don't use it in a street car.
>--
Cox model aeroplane fuel (not for diesel models) contains a small amount of
Nitromethane. We once added a few cups of this to a lawnmower engine, along
with normal petrol, and then readjusted the carb nicely so that it did'nt
get too out of synch. You can get pretty good revs, but before long, smoke
starts leaking out all over the place and the engine stops working with a
slight bang. We cracked the casing very neatly and hence I have not seen
anymore experiments.
Copeland
>
>In <3qt00f$g...@hack.byron.apana.org.au> cybe...@byron.apana.org.au
>(Evan Couche) writes:
>>
>>Quoth Bruce Augenstein (Augen...@MR4DEC.ENET.DEC.COM):
>>:* xop...@ot.com (xopher) wrote:
>>:* >
>>:* > Someone told me they added nitromethane to the gas tank on a
>6cyl. Ford
>>:* > Falcon, and it went extremely fast, but didn't last too long. Is
>this for
>>:* > real, and could it be used as a performance booster
>non-destructively in a
>>:* > stock engine?
>>
>>:* No, and no, rspectively.
>>
>>:* Bruce
>>
>>Perhaps... and perhaps not.
>>
>>Nitromethane *is* used as a fuel in drag racing - in conjunction with
>>methanol. Drag engines don't wear too well, partly because they pull
>way
>>more revs than is healthy, and partly because the heat generated
>starts
>>melting things by the end of the quarter.
>>
>>Don't use it in a street car.
>>--
>
> There are several Nitro-parrafin based fuel additives on the market
>that can be successfully used in a gasoline burning engine. However,
>the amount of Nitro found in these additives is minimal. While the
>poster is partially correct in stating that Nitro is used in drag
>racing engines , it is not necessary to combine Nitromethate with
>methanol. A Fuel(nitro) motor will operate quite well on 100%
>nitromethane. Considerations as to weather and track condition will
>determine whether or not any methanol will be added to reduce
>percentage.
>
>Drag racing engines of the fuel variety don't wear from excessive
>revs,( a fuel motor might see 7500 in the lights) but rather the
>viloent nature of Nitromethane leads to parts attrition, primarily
>burned valves pistons and the occasional hydraulic'd engine.
>
>You could set your street car up to run Nitromethane, although at
>current prices that wuold be a real no brainer. Methanol fueled engines
>require approximately 2 1/2 times the amount of gasoline to run. Nitro
>methane engines used in Top fuel have delivery systems (fuel pumps)
>that deliver 50 - 60 GPM. Without getting into the technical aspects of
>Nitromethane, suffice it to say that it is a fun idea, but completely
>unrealistic.
>
>Hope this helps .
Real men run tetra-nitromethane. Thats 5 times more powerful than
nitromethane! Some model airplane enthusiasts use this.
American Model Association has banned this from sanctioned RC airfields.
Colin Sharpe
: > Falcon, and it went extremely fast, but didn't last too long. Is this for
: > real, and could it be used as a performance booster non-destructively in a
: > stock engine?
: No, and no, rspectively.
: Bruce
The answer is "Unlikely" and "Probably not"!
Nitromethane does not mix well with gasoline. The mixture to use is
nitromethane and methanol. To give a significant advantage, the
compression ratio of the engine should be raised to above 14:1, and to
run at all, the curburettor would need to be modified to increase the
fuel to air ratio about threefold. You would get lousy gas mileage, and
probably ruin your bank balance and your engine.
Fit a nitrous oxide kit, it's less hassle and cheaper.
english.
Lawrence Weinman
>methanol. A Fuel(nitro) motor will operate quite well on 100%
>nitromethane. Considerations as to weather and track condition will
I'm surprised that, so far, no one has mentioned that it makes a decent
rocket monopropellant.
L
Lawrence Weinman
>Snip (and somebody's quote left out ?)
>: > As for using av-gas: there is essentially no difference
>: >in energy content among the various grades of gasoline. Those with a
>: >higher octane rating (which is what I assumed was meant by av-gas, but
>: >the now common 100LL is almost indistinguishable from service station
>
>Not quite. Avgas contains lots of lead. 100LL contains even more lead (even
>though it says LL or LowLead) DO NOT USE AVGAS in your car if it runs on
>unleaded fuel as it will knock out your catalitic converter _very_ quickly.
>Replacing these puppies is expensive.
(remorse) I forgot about the lead/converter problems. the (mostly
unavailable) 80 grade didn't have much in it though. That was the cause
of most of the complaints about the 100LL was that while "low lead" there
was still enough to foul the plugs in the older engines.
L
Bill Nelson
: Real men run tetra-nitromethane. Thats 5 times more powerful than
: nitromethane! Some model airplane enthusiasts use this.
: American Model Association has banned this from sanctioned RC airfields.
NMe is CH3NO2. Tetranitromethane (TeNMe) is C(NO2)4. As you can see, they
are somewhat different substances.
While NMe has a negative oxygen balance, TeNMe has a large surplus. It
would act as an excellent oxidizer, somewhat like nitric acid.
Great care must be used when mixing it with gasoline, as it forms a
sensitive and powerful explosive. (K.F. Hager, IEC 41, 2185 (1949).
By the way, NMe can be used as a motor fuel, both spark ignition and
diesel - either alone or mixed with gasoline or other fuel. See
E.S. Starkman, IEC 51, 1477 (1959) for a review of the subject.
Bill
David J Heisterberg
Copeland <cope...@metronet.com> wrote:
>Real men run tetra-nitromethane. Thats 5 times more powerful than
>nitromethane! Some model airplane enthusiasts use this.
But you don't use it as fuel, like nitromethane is used by top fuel
dragsters. Tetranitromethane is a great oxidizing agent but you
better keep it pure until just ready for use!
--
David J. Heisterberg Ich grolle nichte, und
Dept. of Chemistry OSU / wenn das Herz auch bricht.
The Ohio Supercomputer Center -- Heine
Mark Fernee
: Real men run tetra-nitromethane. Thats 5 times more powerful than
: nitromethane! Some model airplane enthusiasts use this.
: American Model Association has banned this from sanctioned RC airfields.
Hmmm, that's quite a nice explosive and also quite toxic if I remember
correctly.
Mark.
Mark Fernee
: >racing engines , it is not necessary to combine Nitromethate with
Nitromethane as a monopropellent? I don't think I've come across that one.
What is the catalyst?
Mark.
Lawrence Weinman
>What is the catalyst?
Don't think that one is required - just pump it in and get it going and
keep pumping.
L
Travis Morien
: Copeland (cope...@metronet.com) wrote:
: : Real men run tetra-nitromethane. Thats 5 times more powerful than
: : nitromethane! Some model airplane enthusiasts use this.
: : American Model Association has banned this from sanctioned RC airfields.
: NMe is CH3NO2. Tetranitromethane (TeNMe) is C(NO2)4. As you can see, they
: are somewhat different substances.
: While NMe has a negative oxygen balance, TeNMe has a large surplus. It
: would act as an excellent oxidizer, somewhat like nitric acid.
: Great care must be used when mixing it with gasoline, as it forms a
: sensitive and powerful explosive. (K.F. Hager, IEC 41, 2185 (1949).
: By the way, NMe can be used as a motor fuel, both spark ignition and
: diesel - either alone or mixed with gasoline or other fuel. See
: E.S. Starkman, IEC 51, 1477 (1959) for a review of the subject.
: Bill
I know that the military has used TeNMe in solid fueled missiles as an
oxidant, because it is less of a hassle to store than LOX. I have wanted
to build a liquid fueled rocket for ages, I have built lots of solid
fueled ones but I never got around to an all liquid design. Would I have
much success with Nitric Acid? TeNMe is seemingly a good oxidant but
where do you get it? Does it cost a lot? Are there any prohibitions on
its transport? Does it give off any deadly gasses as it burns?
If anyone knows any of this could they post it, or preferably post and
E-mail it? I am interested in any info people might have that could
assist me in making a small scale Liquid fueld rocket. Do people use
mini turbines and pumps, or some chemical reaction to provide pressure in
the tanks to squirt the fuel?
I have access to a desert launching site
and know about remote launching so I am not concerned about it expoloding
on the launch pad, that is part of the fun of rockety, but I would like
any info, from crazy ideas that you just thought of, to good solid PROs
tips. Thanks
root
: Lawrence Weinman (l...@netcom.com) wrote:
: : >racing engines , it is not necessary to combine Nitromethate with
: : >methanol. A Fuel(nitro) motor will operate quite well on 100%
: : >nitromethane. Considerations as to weather and track condition will
: : I'm surprised that, so far, no one has mentioned that it makes a decent
: : rocket monopropellant.
: Nitromethane as a monopropellent? I don't think I've come across that one.
: What is the catalyst?
: Mark.
heat. The trick is to pump it into the combustion chamber faster than the
flame-front moves (a screen helps).
I don't think anyone _actually_ uses the stuff for that presently.
But an earlier response I posted about model fuels indicated its mono-
propellant qualities.... I'm surprised that you didn't pick that up.
I'll repeat. The A.M.A. (the sanctioning body for most model competitions)
rules for "pylon" racers (F1A class, I think) allow NO monopropellants or
other additives other than non-fuel lubricants in the fuel for that event.
The fuel, contrary to what you might think for those super-high-rev
engines, is JUST methanol and a lubricant package (part synthetic, part
castor oil).
But, it's true that nitro does enhance power. Some 20oz model engines
produce over 3.5 HP!
LLoyd
Jerry Carter -FT-~
I once mixed some model air plane gas into regular gas and put it into a Honda
atc 200X 4 stroke. The total Nitro content of the mix was about 10%. It made the
bike run great, but smelled strange (the castor oil). We also noticed that the
mix would seperate if given time to settle. We weren't to concerned what
happened since it was not my bike, and we didn't make up that much.
One thing I didn't hear anyone mention was cost. Nitromethane costs about $30 to
$40 per gallon as far as I know.
I speak only for myself, and not in behalf of my employer.
--
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| Jerry Carter | email: jca...@sedona.intel.com |
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+--------this message is transmitted on 100% recycled photons---------+
tle...@ior.com
>
>I once mixed some model air plane gas into regular gas and put it into a Honda
>atc 200X 4 stroke. The total Nitro content of the mix was about 10%. It made the
>bike run great, but smelled strange (the castor oil). We also noticed that the
>mix would seperate if given time to settle. We weren't to concerned what
>happened since it was not my bike, and we didn't make up that much.
>
>One thing I didn't hear anyone mention was cost. Nitromethane costs about $30 to
>$40 per gallon as far as I know.
>
>I speak only for myself, and not in behalf of my employer.
>
probably the early-to-mid 60's) they used to
fill their windshield-squirter bottle with nitromethane and run the hose into
the carburetor intake. Said it worked great for drag racing and when they came
to look at your car and see if you were cheating... nothing found!
Tom.