Difference between a Factory Service Manual and Workshop Service Manual?
Jack
Civic. Is there an inherent difference between a "workshop service
manual" and a "factory service manual"? Or is it just a name used by a
3rd party company? I've seen references to Haynes producing manuals.
If it turns out to be a Haynes, is that as good as a Honda one?
Anything I should check on before buying it? Thanks!
Rob Campbell
something more detailed. I've heard the term "workshop manual" but am
not sure what this really refers to is or where I can get hold of one.
Anyone know?
Rob
Daniel J. Stern
All the aftermarket manuals (Haynes, Chilton, etc.) are garbage. Get a
genuine Honda service manual by whatever means necessary.
-Stern
Don Bruder
wrote:
Get "the real thing". Haynes and Chilton's in the US (and Gregory's -
basically Chilton's, rebadged for the UK/Australia) can get you started,
but there's no comparing them to a *REAL* factory manual, in ANY
category.
To illustrate the differences...
Chilton's/Haynes/Gregory's almost always cover a range of years and
models - The factory manual is year and model specific. The Chilton's
I've got for my '82 626 also covers 1978-83 626s, 323s, 929s, and even
looks at the MXs. As can be guessed, the level of detail is
significantly less than the "real" manual.
When discussing the alternator (just to pick one example), the Chilton's
I've got (and the Haynes that I've seen - can't speak with certainty
about Gregory's) stops at "If the voltage from the B terminal is less
than X volts at Y RPMs, replace the alternator with a new or rebuilt
unit."
The factory manual for this car will *EASILY* walk you through a "strip
it down to component parts, inspect, test, diagnose, repair and/or
rebuild anything broken inside, and put it back together in
"as-good-as-or-better-than new" condition, and covers basically anything
you're ever likely to need to to know about, or consider doing to or
with an alternator for a 1982 Mazda 626.
And that's just talking about the alternator.
Let's not even go into the level of detail that shows up when you look
at the engine, the tranny (manual OR automatic), the rear end, emission
control systems, or anything else about the car. If it's attached to the
car, the factory manual covers how to get it off the car, tear it down,
test it, figure out if it's good, bad, or in between, rebuild it to at
least as good as (or in some cases better than) new, and put it back on
the car.
A Haynes or Chilton's might get you as far as taking it off the car, and
for some systems, might get you through tearing it apart, but they
usually fall back on the old standby of "if this test fails, replace the
<whatever-it-is> with a new/rebuilt one, or take it to a qualified
mechanic and tell him this is what's wrong", where the factory manual
will walk you through making the old one just as good as new, rather
than tossing it and buying a new one.
In summation:
Chilton's that covers the 1982 Mazda 626 (and a whole bunch of others):
$22.50 at Kragen's/Pep Boys/AutoZone/etc. Factory manual for this
specific car: $30, shipped, off of eBay. Chilton's: Better than nothing
at all - handles "common" stuff. Factory manual: ANYTHING you're ever
going to need to know about this specific year, make and model of car,
from gas tank capacity, to valve spring length when unloaded, to how
many .001 mms of backlash are acceptable between the ring and pinion
gears in the differential, and everything else you're even a little bit
likely to need to know. (And lots more that you might never realize was
even POSSIBLE to know, let alone might actually be needed.)
Given the choice, get the factory manual and take a big ol' heapin'
helpin' of "pass" on the others. You won't be sorry. The factory manual
is, quite simply, *THE* authoritative reference for any given car. If it
can't deal with whatever question you've got, nothing can.
--
Don Bruder - dak...@sonic.net - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
I respond to Email as quick as humanly possible. If you Email me and get no
response, see <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html> Short
form: I'm trashing EVERYTHING that doesn't contain a password in the subject.
Jacques Clouseau
das...@127.0.0.1 says...
better than any aftermarket manual I've looked at.
Jacques
Steve W.
http://www.helminc.com/ Sells the REAL factory manuals.
They are not cheap but they are the same ones a dealer would have
since Helm publishes Honda America manuals.
A full set for a '93 Honda Civic (not a Del-Sol)
# 61SR301 Shop Manual - $62.00
# 61SR301EL Electrical Troubleshooting Manual - $39.00
# Y0381 Honda Service Bulletin set - $25.00
# 61SR331 Body Repair Manual - $38.00
Not cheap but it will show you everything about that vehicle.
--
Steve Williams
Near Cooperstown NY
"Jack" <a...@b.com> wrote in message
news:fvpgc0th59unbm2re...@4ax.com...
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Tim Kettring
me ) and use it on my 1981 , and it beats all aftermarket books by leaps and
bounds !
"Don Bruder" <dak...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:1S0yc.16186$Fo4.2...@typhoon.sonic.net...
Alex Rodriguez
A factory service manual is usualy two to three times bigger than a Haynes
or chilton book. That should tell you something. It means that you will
get more pictures and better descriptions of procedures you need to do to
keep your car running well. I use to be a Haynes person until I saw my
first factory service manual. Now I would only consider the Haynes if the
factory service manual was out of print. Spend the extra money and get the
factory manual.
-------------
Alex
Pigeon Hohl
I guess you get what you pay for...
Pigeon
Tony P.
says...
And when you consider that the average set of shop manuals will probably
run you $200 or so you need to do the following.
Average rates for labor are what, $60 or so? So for a little over the
price of three hours of labor, you have access to everything they have
access to.
Well worth it.
Death
> In article <fvpgc0th59unbm2re...@4ax.com>, Jack
> <a...@b.com> wrote:
>
snip
>
> To illustrate the differences...
>
> Chilton's/Haynes/Gregory's almost always cover a range of years and
> models - The factory manual is year and model specific. The Chilton's
> I've got for my '82 626 also covers 1978-83 626s, 323s, 929s, and even
> looks at the MXs. As can be guessed, the level of detail is
> significantly less than the "real" manual.
That is not always true.. particularly when dealing with the Euro
manufacturers. They generally print one manual/manual set covering a
chassis or platform and give you 'suppliments' to update any changes
that may have occured since the manual printing.
snip
>
> The factory manual for this car will *EASILY* walk you through a
> "strip it down to component parts, inspect, test, diagnose, repair
> and/or rebuild anything broken inside, and put it back together in
> "as-good-as-or-better-than new" condition, and covers basically
> anything you're ever likely to need to to know about, or consider
> doing to or with an alternator for a 1982 Mazda 626.
That also is not always true. Especially when dealing with the Euro
manufacturers they are notorious for leaving out details..since you
should of learned it attending the factory training.
>
> And that's just talking about the alternator.
>
> Let's not even go into the level of detail that shows up when you look
> at the engine, the tranny (manual OR automatic), the rear end,
> emission control systems, or anything else about the car. If it's
> attached to the car, the factory manual covers how to get it off the
> car, tear it down, test it, figure out if it's good, bad, or in
> between, rebuild it to at least as good as (or in some cases better
> than) new, and put it back on the car.
Again, not always true. Sometimes you get an exploded view of an
assembly, ie; interior or driver's door with each component numbered
with an index and minor notes such as... Item 7. Bolt, torque to 20 Nm.
That is the 'offical factory procedure'
>
> A Haynes or Chilton's might get you as far as taking it off the car,
> and for some systems, might get you through tearing it apart, but they
> usually fall back on the old standby of "if this test fails, replace
> the <whatever-it-is> with a new/rebuilt one, or take it to a qualified
> mechanic and tell him this is what's wrong", where the factory manual
> will walk you through making the old one just as good as new, rather
> than tossing it and buying a new one.
if your lucky.. Jaguar engine R&R shows image of engine in vehicle, 50
steps to do, then picture of engine on floor, with step 50 being
"installation is reverse of removal".
>
> In summation:
> Chilton's that covers the 1982 Mazda 626 (and a whole bunch of
> others): $22.50 at Kragen's/Pep Boys/AutoZone/etc. Factory manual for
> this specific car: $30, shipped, off of eBay. Chilton's: Better than
> nothing at all - handles "common" stuff. Factory manual: ANYTHING
> you're ever going to need to know about this specific year, make and
> model of car, from gas tank capacity, to valve spring length when
> unloaded, to how many .001 mms of backlash are acceptable between the
> ring and pinion gears in the differential, and everything else you're
> even a little bit likely to need to know. (And lots more that you
> might never realize was even POSSIBLE to know, let alone might
> actually be needed.)
>
> Given the choice, get the factory manual and take a big ol' heapin'
> helpin' of "pass" on the others. You won't be sorry. The factory
> manual is, quite simply, *THE* authoritative reference for any given
> car. If it can't deal with whatever question you've got, nothing can.
>
Yes, factory service manuals are always better then the non-factory
manual.. but factory manuals do have errors in them just like any other
printed material could have. What do you expect when you take a manual
translated from its original language into 20 languages (or more).
