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water pump impeller gone bad?
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Ashton Crusher
Oct 22, 2012, 1:55:14 PM10/22/12
to
I put a new water pump on my 92 explorer less then 10,000 miles ago.
It was OK at that time. Now it runs much hotter then it ever used to,
getting up to around 240 on mountain grades. I changed out the
thermostat, hoses, and anti-freeze but it still is running hotter then
it ever did before. Radiator has no leaks, has always had the
antifreeze maintained so I'm pretty sure there is no plugging on the
rad. Engine runs very smoothly with no evidence of any head gasket
problems.
How many of you have ever seen the impeller of a water pump be the
cause of this? Since I can't find anything else I'm thinking of
changing the wp again.
It was OK at that time. Now it runs much hotter then it ever used to,
getting up to around 240 on mountain grades. I changed out the
thermostat, hoses, and anti-freeze but it still is running hotter then
it ever did before. Radiator has no leaks, has always had the
antifreeze maintained so I'm pretty sure there is no plugging on the
rad. Engine runs very smoothly with no evidence of any head gasket
problems.
How many of you have ever seen the impeller of a water pump be the
cause of this? Since I can't find anything else I'm thinking of
changing the wp again.
None
Oct 22, 2012, 2:22:33 PM10/22/12
to
"Ashton Crusher" <de...@moore.net> wrote in message
news:bs1b88904nhms8uup...@4ax.com...
I'd assume that given that neither the old impeller nor cooling
system in general was fouled, the "new" one wouldn't be too
An overheating condition isn't usually a fault related to a WP.
I have only once in more than 50 years witnessed a metal
impeller coming loose from a shaft and would accordingly
consider that quite rare. However I was recently informed
that a "plastic" impeller on a newish VW bug pump came
loose or otherwise failed (resulting in a long, lengthy and
costly repair), so there's always that possibility too (I have
neither needed to nor made my living wrenching in decades).
news:bs1b88904nhms8uup...@4ax.com...
system in general was fouled, the "new" one wouldn't be too
An overheating condition isn't usually a fault related to a WP.
I have only once in more than 50 years witnessed a metal
impeller coming loose from a shaft and would accordingly
consider that quite rare. However I was recently informed
that a "plastic" impeller on a newish VW bug pump came
loose or otherwise failed (resulting in a long, lengthy and
costly repair), so there's always that possibility too (I have
neither needed to nor made my living wrenching in decades).
Scott Dorsey
Oct 22, 2012, 4:20:21 PM10/22/12
to
Ashton Crusher <de...@moore.net> wrote:
>I put a new water pump on my 92 explorer less then 10,000 miles ago.
>It was OK at that time. Now it runs much hotter then it ever used to,
>getting up to around 240 on mountain grades. I changed out the
>thermostat, hoses, and anti-freeze but it still is running hotter then
>it ever did before. Radiator has no leaks, has always had the
>antifreeze maintained so I'm pretty sure there is no plugging on the
>rad. Engine runs very smoothly with no evidence of any head gasket
>problems.
Was this a new OEM pump or a cheap chain-store rebuild?
>I put a new water pump on my 92 explorer less then 10,000 miles ago.
>It was OK at that time. Now it runs much hotter then it ever used to,
>getting up to around 240 on mountain grades. I changed out the
>thermostat, hoses, and anti-freeze but it still is running hotter then
>it ever did before. Radiator has no leaks, has always had the
>antifreeze maintained so I'm pretty sure there is no plugging on the
>rad. Engine runs very smoothly with no evidence of any head gasket
>problems.
>How many of you have ever seen the impeller of a water pump be the
>cause of this? Since I can't find anything else I'm thinking of
>changing the wp again.
that it really IS running hot?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
None
Oct 22, 2012, 5:13:28 PM10/22/12
to
"Scott Dorsey" <klu...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:k649q5$30b$1...@panix2.panix.com...
of the most putrid conceivable brand of horseshit (you'll
note the telling thorough lack of even so much as an attempt
at an explanation as to any type of failure mode). But then
again that respondent is well known for his total BS offerings.
news:k649q5$30b$1...@panix2.panix.com...
> Ashton Crusher <de...@moore.net> wrote:
>>I put a new water pump on my 92 explorer less then 10,000 miles ago.
>>It was OK at that time. Now it runs much hotter then it ever used to,
>>getting up to around 240 on mountain grades. I changed out the
>>thermostat, hoses, and anti-freeze but it still is running hotter then
>>it ever did before. Radiator has no leaks, has always had the
>>antifreeze maintained so I'm pretty sure there is no plugging on the
>>rad. Engine runs very smoothly with no evidence of any head gasket
>>problems.
>
> Was this a new OEM pump or a cheap chain-store rebuild?
>
>>How many of you have ever seen the impeller of a water pump be the
>>cause of this? Since I can't find anything else I'm thinking of
>>changing the wp again.
>
> It does sound like the pump,
From THAT description?! What an absolute steaming pile
>>I put a new water pump on my 92 explorer less then 10,000 miles ago.
>>It was OK at that time. Now it runs much hotter then it ever used to,
>>getting up to around 240 on mountain grades. I changed out the
>>thermostat, hoses, and anti-freeze but it still is running hotter then
>>it ever did before. Radiator has no leaks, has always had the
>>antifreeze maintained so I'm pretty sure there is no plugging on the
>>rad. Engine runs very smoothly with no evidence of any head gasket
>>problems.
>
> Was this a new OEM pump or a cheap chain-store rebuild?
>
>>How many of you have ever seen the impeller of a water pump be the
>>cause of this? Since I can't find anything else I'm thinking of
>>changing the wp again.
>
> It does sound like the pump,
of the most putrid conceivable brand of horseshit (you'll
note the telling thorough lack of even so much as an attempt
at an explanation as to any type of failure mode). But then
again that respondent is well known for his total BS offerings.
Bill Vanek
Oct 22, 2012, 8:37:50 PM10/22/12
to
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:55:14 -0700, Ashton Crusher <de...@moore.net>
wrote:
Cooling fan(s) working properly? Anything blocking the air flow
throught the radiator?
wrote:
throught the radiator?
Paul in Houston TX
Oct 22, 2012, 8:39:43 PM10/22/12
to
from anyone that has. I have heard rumors that some
impellers are designed to run the other direction but
have never seen one or know of anyone that has.
One pump fits many engines but use different gaskets.
My guess is its something else.
I would start with a new radiator.
1992? Its about time for a new one.
None
Oct 22, 2012, 11:04:09 PM10/22/12
to
"Paul in Houston TX" <Pa...@Houston.com> wrote in message
news:k64p2n$m79$1...@dont-email.me...
standard) reverse rotation water pumps for vehicles,
but no Fords that I've ever run across or am aware of.
news:k64p2n$m79$1...@dont-email.me...
> Ashton Crusher wrote:
>> I put a new water pump on my 92 explorer less then 10,000 miles ago.
>> It was OK at that time. Now it runs much hotter then it ever used to,
>> getting up to around 240 on mountain grades. I changed out the
>> thermostat, hoses, and anti-freeze but it still is running hotter then
>> it ever did before. Radiator has no leaks, has always had the
>> antifreeze maintained so I'm pretty sure there is no plugging on the
>> rad. Engine runs very smoothly with no evidence of any head gasket
>> problems.
>>
>> How many of you have ever seen the impeller of a water pump be the
>> cause of this? Since I can't find anything else I'm thinking of
>> changing the wp again.
>
> I have never seen a bad impeller nor have heard directly
> from anyone that has. I have heard rumors that some
> impellers are designed to run the other direction but
> have never seen one or know of anyone that has.
Yes there exist many usually non-interchangeable (with
>> I put a new water pump on my 92 explorer less then 10,000 miles ago.
>> It was OK at that time. Now it runs much hotter then it ever used to,
>> getting up to around 240 on mountain grades. I changed out the
>> thermostat, hoses, and anti-freeze but it still is running hotter then
>> it ever did before. Radiator has no leaks, has always had the
>> antifreeze maintained so I'm pretty sure there is no plugging on the
>> rad. Engine runs very smoothly with no evidence of any head gasket
>> problems.
>>
>> How many of you have ever seen the impeller of a water pump be the
>> cause of this? Since I can't find anything else I'm thinking of
>> changing the wp again.
>
> I have never seen a bad impeller nor have heard directly
> from anyone that has. I have heard rumors that some
> impellers are designed to run the other direction but
> have never seen one or know of anyone that has.
standard) reverse rotation water pumps for vehicles,
but no Fords that I've ever run across or am aware of.
Steve W.
Oct 23, 2012, 1:59:41 AM10/23/12
to
Did it start running hotter suddenly or has it been creeping up?
Check the fan clutch yet?
Radiator clean through the fins, A/C condenser clean?
Have you checked to see if that is REALLY the operating temp. using a
mechanical gauge? Could be a sender going bad.
--
Steve W.
Steve W.
Oct 23, 2012, 2:09:00 AM10/23/12
to
anything with a serpentine belt.
There is an easy way to tell if the pump is normal or reverse rotation.
Simply look at the drive belt.
If it drives off the ribbed side of the belt it is standard rotation. If
it drives on the back/flat side of the belt it is reverse rotation.
There are a LOT of common engines that use R/R pumps. I don't know of a
single maker that didn't have engines that used both directions based on
the year and option package.
--
Steve W.
Steve W.
Oct 23, 2012, 2:10:51 AM10/23/12
to
None wrote:
> "Paul in Houston TX" <Pa...@Houston.com> wrote in message
> news:k64p2n$m79$1...@dont-email.me...
>> Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>> I put a new water pump on my 92 explorer less then 10,000 miles ago.
>>> It was OK at that time. Now it runs much hotter then it ever used to,
>>> getting up to around 240 on mountain grades. I changed out the
>>> thermostat, hoses, and anti-freeze but it still is running hotter then
>>> it ever did before. Radiator has no leaks, has always had the
>>> antifreeze maintained so I'm pretty sure there is no plugging on the
>>> rad. Engine runs very smoothly with no evidence of any head gasket
>>> problems.
>>>
>>> How many of you have ever seen the impeller of a water pump be the
>>> cause of this? Since I can't find anything else I'm thinking of
>>> changing the wp again.
>> I have never seen a bad impeller nor have heard directly
>> from anyone that has. I have heard rumors that some
>> impellers are designed to run the other direction but
>> have never seen one or know of anyone that has.
>
> Yes there exist many usually non-interchangeable (with
> standard) reverse rotation water pumps for vehicles,
> but no Fords that I've ever run across or am aware of.
300 -6, 289, 302, 429, 460 and a few others.
> "Paul in Houston TX" <Pa...@Houston.com> wrote in message
> news:k64p2n$m79$1...@dont-email.me...
>> Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>> I put a new water pump on my 92 explorer less then 10,000 miles ago.
>>> It was OK at that time. Now it runs much hotter then it ever used to,
>>> getting up to around 240 on mountain grades. I changed out the
>>> thermostat, hoses, and anti-freeze but it still is running hotter then
>>> it ever did before. Radiator has no leaks, has always had the
>>> antifreeze maintained so I'm pretty sure there is no plugging on the
>>> rad. Engine runs very smoothly with no evidence of any head gasket
>>> problems.
>>>
>>> How many of you have ever seen the impeller of a water pump be the
>>> cause of this? Since I can't find anything else I'm thinking of
>>> changing the wp again.
>> I have never seen a bad impeller nor have heard directly
>> from anyone that has. I have heard rumors that some
>> impellers are designed to run the other direction but
>> have never seen one or know of anyone that has.
>
> Yes there exist many usually non-interchangeable (with
> standard) reverse rotation water pumps for vehicles,
> but no Fords that I've ever run across or am aware of.
Basically look for the engines used with both accessory drive systems.
>
>> One pump fits many engines but use different gaskets.
>> My guess is its something else.
>> I would start with a new radiator.
>> 1992? Its about time for a new one.
>
>
Steve W.
Brent
Oct 23, 2012, 2:22:43 AM10/23/12
to
cooling issue to the radiator, no leaks, I had maintained everything
properly, but it just wasn't doing the job. Given the high milage I
figured I'd just replace it since I could get a deal on a upgraded unit
from ford racing. When I went to put it in I found the main portion of
the radiator, that I couldn't see because of the AC heat exchanger
(between it and the radiator), was almost entirely blocked with debris.
I swapped it out anyway. On another car of the same model I just cleaned
off the debris and the problem went away.
On another note, if all else fails might want to check the catalyst and
see if it's becomming plugged.
m6onz5a
Oct 23, 2012, 6:36:27 AM10/23/12
to
impellers that have broken loose from the w/p shaft, impellers
installed wrong on the w/p. It is possible you have a defective
pump.
Also double check you have the serp belt routed properly in case the
water pump is running backwards.
gpsman
Oct 23, 2012, 8:41:45 AM10/23/12
to
> cooling issue to the radiator <> I had maintained everything
> properly,
>
-----
- gpsman
> properly,
>
> I found the main portion of
> the radiator, that I couldn't see because of the AC heat exchanger
> (between it and the radiator), was almost entirely blocked with debris.
Interesting perspective.
> the radiator, that I couldn't see because of the AC heat exchanger
> (between it and the radiator), was almost entirely blocked with debris.
-----
- gpsman
Scott Dorsey
Oct 23, 2012, 10:03:43 AM10/23/12
to
Paul in Houston TX <Pa...@Houston.com> wrote:
>
>I have never seen a bad impeller nor have heard directly
>from anyone that has. I have heard rumors that some
>impellers are designed to run the other direction but
>have never seen one or know of anyone that has.
I have seen lots and lots of BMW pumps with plastic and diecast impellers
>
>I have never seen a bad impeller nor have heard directly
>from anyone that has. I have heard rumors that some
>impellers are designed to run the other direction but
>have never seen one or know of anyone that has.
that crack and spew out fragments that get stuck in the block. Lots of fun.
I have seen two otherwise-identical-looking GM pumps that had impellers
designed to turn in the opposite directions. Just fine until the guy at
the dealer accidentally puts them on the wrong shelves.
But I have mostly seen fraudulent rebuilds.
>One pump fits many engines but use different gaskets.
>My guess is its something else.
>I would start with a new radiator.
>1992? Its about time for a new one.
your friend. Find out how much water is going through each part of the
system and why.
Bill
Oct 23, 2012, 11:42:59 AM10/23/12
to
In article <bs1b88904nhms8uup...@4ax.com>, de...@moore.net
says...
The job of the water pump is to circulate coolant.
The job of the thermostat is to regulate the flow of coolant to the
radiator. Closed if too cool / open if too hot.
With that said, is the top of the radiator too hot to touch when it
reaches 240?
Is the air blowing out of the radiator hot?
Is the bottom of the radiator cooler than the top of the radiator?
says...
>
> I put a new water pump on my 92 explorer less then 10,000 miles ago.
> It was OK at that time. Now it runs much hotter then it ever used to,
> getting up to around 240 on mountain grades.
>
WHY did you replace the water pump 10,000 miles ago?
> I put a new water pump on my 92 explorer less then 10,000 miles ago.
> It was OK at that time. Now it runs much hotter then it ever used to,
> getting up to around 240 on mountain grades.
>
The job of the water pump is to circulate coolant.
The job of the thermostat is to regulate the flow of coolant to the
radiator. Closed if too cool / open if too hot.
With that said, is the top of the radiator too hot to touch when it
reaches 240?
Is the air blowing out of the radiator hot?
Is the bottom of the radiator cooler than the top of the radiator?
Nate Nagel
Oct 23, 2012, 10:40:59 PM10/23/12
to
knowledge of Chevys which may not be directly applicable) is that is the
engine in your vehicle available in both V-belt and serpentine belt
configurations, depending on year/model? If you replace a "reverse
rotation" pump with one from a conventional v-belt model or vice versa,
the WP will be a lot less efficient.
I've never seen a bad impeller personally, but it is possible,
especially with the newer composite/plastic impellers. BMW has had some
issues with this in the past few years.
Another potential issue with rebuilds I've seen was an impeller pressed
too far onto the shaft causing excessive clearance between the impeller
vanes and the housing when installed. This was a known issue with some
rebuilt pumps for Studebaker V-8s a few years back. One vendor was hand
checking the pumps and using a gear puller to tweak the impellers to the
correct position before shipping them out.
Long story short, I would personally test the thermostat with a saucepan
and a thermometer; next check and make sure that the lower hose
(assuming conventional flow) isn't collapsing. If neither of those
indicate a problem and the rise in temp. coincided exactly with the
maintenance items you listed, occam's razor suggests trying a new WP.
good luck,
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
Nate Nagel
Oct 23, 2012, 10:43:23 PM10/23/12
to
the vehicle has an electric fan that the connector didn't become
dislodged when changing the WP and hoses. Likewise with the
thermoswitch in the radiator controlling same, if there is one.
(sometimes it's in the rad, sometimes it's elsewhere - I don't know F*rds.)
Easy to verify that the fan is working at least, just turn on the A/C.
99.44% of cars with an electric fan and A/C will run the fan at all
times when the A/C is on.
Ashton Crusher
Oct 26, 2012, 12:04:20 AM10/26/12
to
before redoing it and then go elsewhere.
I did check the sensor with an infrared temp gun and it's running hot.
On the trip in the mountains it got hot enough that the PCM shut down
the AC at what looked to be about 240 degrees. When it cooled down to
around 230 the AC came back on.
Ashton Crusher
Oct 26, 2012, 12:07:38 AM10/26/12
to
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 17:37:50 -0700, Bill Vanek <bilv...@invalid.com>
wrote:
Engine driven and supposedly once you are over 40 mph you don't even
need the fan and it got hot at speed. Don't see anything blocking but
I'll look again. Fluid fan passes the "spin" test.
wrote:
need the fan and it got hot at speed. Don't see anything blocking but
I'll look again. Fluid fan passes the "spin" test.
Ashton Crusher
Oct 26, 2012, 12:13:27 AM10/26/12
to
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 02:09:00 -0400, "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com>
wrote:
I've been wondering about the RRotation thing but I drove the truck
almost 4000 miles across the US during the summer and it wasn't having
this problem. Then after I was home for a few weeks I drove it up and
back to the Grand Canyon and it was close to overheating the whole
time. Of the things I can see, the radiator, fan, belt, nothing
looks bad. Engine runs smooth as glass, same gas mileage as always,
same power (or lack thereof), no engine check light. So I'm thinking
of things I can't see, like the impeller.
wrote:
almost 4000 miles across the US during the summer and it wasn't having
this problem. Then after I was home for a few weeks I drove it up and
back to the Grand Canyon and it was close to overheating the whole
time. Of the things I can see, the radiator, fan, belt, nothing
looks bad. Engine runs smooth as glass, same gas mileage as always,
same power (or lack thereof), no engine check light. So I'm thinking
of things I can't see, like the impeller.
Ashton Crusher
Oct 26, 2012, 12:17:45 AM10/26/12
to
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 01:59:41 -0400, "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com>
wrote:
Depends on what you call suddenly but it ran fine for 4000 miles cross
country this summer and then a month later started running hot on a
mountain trip and hotter, according to the gauge, even around town.
Actual temp has been verified with an infrared gun, old thermo was
replaced with no improvement (bad thermo was my first thought). I
used to be able to tow a boat at high speed on the hottest summer day
with the AC on and the temp barely rose. Now it goes to mid scale
some of the time even on just a warm day driving around town or on
local freeways. Something's changed but I can't figure out what.
wrote:
country this summer and then a month later started running hot on a
mountain trip and hotter, according to the gauge, even around town.
Actual temp has been verified with an infrared gun, old thermo was
replaced with no improvement (bad thermo was my first thought). I
used to be able to tow a boat at high speed on the hottest summer day
with the AC on and the temp barely rose. Now it goes to mid scale
some of the time even on just a warm day driving around town or on
local freeways. Something's changed but I can't figure out what.
Ashton Crusher
Oct 26, 2012, 12:20:00 AM10/26/12
to
inspection mirror and flashlight and see if I can see up there. I had
the AC condenser off last year and the rad was very clean at that
time. I guess the cat could be on it's last legs, how would I check
that?
Ashton Crusher
Oct 26, 2012, 12:21:59 AM10/26/12
to
knows, maybe things fit two ways. I'm giving it low odds though
because that would make the fan turn the wrong direction and I'd think
that would make a funny noise. At least it's easy to check.
Ashton Crusher
Oct 26, 2012, 12:23:48 AM10/26/12
to
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:42:59 -0700, Bill <Nomail...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Old water pump had started leaking. I took temp reading at several
spots but don't recall the readings. I'll have to do it again
sometime and see how the top of radiator temp compares to thermo
housing temp, etc.
wrote:
spots but don't recall the readings. I'll have to do it again
sometime and see how the top of radiator temp compares to thermo
housing temp, etc.
Ashton Crusher
Apr 2, 2014, 9:48:22 PM4/2/14
to
Don't drive the vehicle much so just lived with it last summer for the
few times I drove it. It was really heating up at the Drive-Through
windows and still running hot most of the time on the highway.
Anyway.... a couple weeks ago I bit the bullet and got a new water
pump from rockauto. Took the old one off and put the new one on. The
old one still looked like new, no wear at all on the impeller. Since
they were different brands there were slight difference between the
exact shapes of the impellers but nothing that looked significant. The
thing I was looking for and the only thing that appeared to be
different was that on the new pump the clearance between the impeller
and the housing that forms the "pump cavity" was about half what it
was on the old pump - along the lines of 0.030 on the old overheating
pump and 0.015 on the new pump.
With the new pump in place the truck now runs at the temps it always
did before, very cool. Maybe there was some difference in the pumps
besides the clearance but I couldn't see any. I've heard from many
Pontiac people that they clearance their water pump separator plates
on the old V8's because a very slight increase in clearance reduces
pump flow significantly so they make it as tight as they can without
it rubbing. It's the only thing I can figure for this Ford pump.
O'Rielly's gave me my money back for the old lifetime warranty pump,
never even asked what was wrong with it.
money2noise
Apr 3, 2014, 11:27:31 AM4/3/14
to
N8N
Apr 3, 2014, 2:22:53 PM4/3/14
to
Car (late-ish model Mustang) came in with an overheating complaint and a noise that sounded like a bad WP but customer didn't authorize changing it as there was also a coolant leak from thermostat housing. New housing, stat, and gaskets later, leak gone, car still overheating after a few minutes of running. With belt removed, WP rotated freely and bearings did not wobble. No leak from WP.
thermostat was then removed, reassembled without stat, upper hose removed from radiator, water from garden hose would flow through engine/rad in either direction. Engine started and revved, no flow evident through hose. Informed customer that the next step was removing water pump, when impeller spinning on shaft was found. New WP installed, problem solved.
nate
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