Material for battery terminal bolts?

[Nate Nagel]

Hi all,

am trying to "rust proof" a vehicle... when I got it the old battery
had spewed acid everywhere and destroyed not only itself, but the
coating on the hold down and all of the battery cables. I purchased
replacement heavier gauge cables (cheaper than buying the ones from the
dealer!) with ring terminals on both ends, an Optima yellow top, and
used marine brass battery terminal connectors to hook everything up -
the ring terminals were fastened to the brass by machine screws and wing
nuts.

Well, today I had to pull the alternator out because it apparently
locked up solid while the vehicle sat for a little over a week...
pulled the battery out to get access to it and I found that the hardware
for the brass terminals, which I thought was brass, was apparently only
brass plated and is rusting through the plating.

So... my immediate thought was to replace it all with either brass or
stainless steel. Difficulty - I can't seem to find a source for either
brass or stainless steel battery clamp bolts (the 5/16" square head
bolts for a top post battery.) I did find one eBay seller selling
titanium bolts... but that seems very silly (and also might create
another problem, that is, that titanium tends to gall very easily thus
putting me right back in the same boat of having to cut a bolt to save
my terminals if the battery ever needs to be replaced.

I'm assuming that there is a reason for this, but I don't know what it
is (some web discussions suggest galvanic corrosion, but wouldn't that
also be a problem of similar magnitude with regular steel touching brass
touching lead?) nor do I have a source for corrosion resistant
fasteners... any idea? Local to me I only have the usual auto parts
stores (all chains; the one good local store got bought out by NAPA a
year or two ago) and a Fastenal. I'm not close enough to the water to
have a good boat store, which would have been my first thought...

thanks

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

[Scott Dorsey]

Nate Nagel <njn...@roosters.net> wrote:
>
>Well, today I had to pull the alternator out because it apparently
>locked up solid while the vehicle sat for a little over a week...
>pulled the battery out to get access to it and I found that the hardware
>for the brass terminals, which I thought was brass, was apparently only
>brass plated and is rusting through the plating.

Welcome to China.

>So... my immediate thought was to replace it all with either brass or
>stainless steel. Difficulty - I can't seem to find a source for either
>brass or stainless steel battery clamp bolts (the 5/16" square head
>bolts for a top post battery.) I did find one eBay seller selling
>titanium bolts... but that seems very silly (and also might create
>another problem, that is, that titanium tends to gall very easily thus
>putting me right back in the same boat of having to cut a bolt to save
>my terminals if the battery ever needs to be replaced.

Try an industrial bolt supplier. Fastenal should be able to get you
5/16 square heads in stainless or phosphor-bronze.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[N8N]

Fastenal's web site was the first place I tried as I actually have a local branch. I might stop by in person when I pick up the new alt., but their web site seems pretty good...

[AMuzi]

Titanium can be quite reactive with salt or acid so I
wouldn't. See bottom photo here:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/fail.html

I use stainless bolts with antiseize paste. Grind one side
of the bolt head flat to fit. Use a stainless washer under
the stainless nut.


--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Alan Baker]

In article <64907b0b-7d21-4fd7...@googlegroups.com>,

If not Fastenal, try McMaster-Carr (mcmaster.com)

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

[Nate Nagel]

On 10/16/2013 01:57 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
> In article <64907b0b-7d21-4fd7...@googlegroups.com>,
> N8N <njn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Fastenal's web site was the first place I tried as I actually have a local
>> branch. I might stop by in person when I pick up the new alt., but their web
>> site seems pretty good...
>
> If not Fastenal, try McMaster-Carr (mcmaster.com)
>

They don't show any available either. I did stop by Fastenal when I had
to run out and pick up my new alternator (I'd called the parts store to
order it as soon as I determined that that was what had locked up; they
had to order it from their warehouse so I had a couple hours to remove
the old one and take a shower before it was available) and the guy
confirmed that they did not carry any square head stainless bolts. I'm
starting to think that they are not made. It is not a *huge* hardship
to use a hex head bolt instead, but then I would have to use two tools
to remove one of the clamps instead of just one. (I'm sure anyone who's
dealt with the old top post batteries can envision why; the flats of the
square head bolt engage a recess in the casting of the clamp, whereas a
smaller hex head will not.) I guess that is what I will do unless
someone turns something up soon.

I wonder what boat guys do? Only boat store I can think of off the top
of my head is West Marine and they don't show anything on their web site
either. Used to be a great store in Annapolis (a long drive, but I
think they did ship) called Chesapeake Marine Fasteners and I loved that
place, but they've been out of business for 5 years or more.

[Tegger]

Nate Nagel <njn...@roosters.net> wrote in
news:l3mbg...@news4.newsguy.com:

> I found that the hardware
> for the brass terminals, which I thought was brass, was apparently only
> brass plated and is rusting through the plating.

Is this a post-type battery?


--
Tegger

[Nate Nagel]

yes, old school. The terminals that I am using look very much like these

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=654212&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=50366&subdeptNum=50367&classNum=61535#.Ul8uH0mzXWg

although I don't know who the original supplier was, I got them from the
guy who made up the battery cables. I'd be mad at him, but I'm having
no joy finding anything that uses non-rusting hardware, so he probably
had the same issue. I could get everything off the shelf fairly easily
to "fix" them save for the square head bolts, they're a normal
5/16"-18x1-1/4" battery clamp bolt, but all I can find is zinc plated steel.

[Tegger]

Nate Nagel <njn...@roosters.net> wrote in

news:l3nar...@news6.newsguy.com:

> On 10/16/2013 08:07 PM, Tegger wrote:
>> Nate Nagel <njn...@roosters.net> wrote in
>> news:l3mbg...@news4.newsguy.com:
>>
>>> I found that the hardware
>>> for the brass terminals, which I thought was brass, was apparently
>>> only brass plated and is rusting through the plating.
>>
>>
>> Is this a post-type battery?
>>
>>
>
> yes, old school.

If you've got corrosion with a new battery, I'll bet you overtightened the
terminals and broke the case/post seal. /Everybody/ does that.



--
Tegger

[m6onz5a]

if fastenal doesn't stock them you'll have to buy a box

[Nate Nagel]

On 10/16/2013 11:00 PM, Tegger wrote:
> Nate Nagel <njn...@roosters.net> wrote in
> news:l3nar...@news6.newsguy.com:
>
>> On 10/16/2013 08:07 PM, Tegger wrote:
>>> Nate Nagel <njn...@roosters.net> wrote in
>>> news:l3mbg...@news4.newsguy.com:
>>>
>>>> I found that the hardware
>>>> for the brass terminals, which I thought was brass, was apparently
>>>> only brass plated and is rusting through the plating.
>>>
>>>
>>> Is this a post-type battery?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> yes, old school.
>
>
>
> If you've got corrosion with a new battery, I'll bet you overtightened the
> terminals and broke the case/post seal. /Everybody/ does that.
>

I get that... the battery is actually an Optima, and the corrosion
present is not the white fluffy stuff that you'd expect on a battery -
it just looks like surface rust on bare steel from sitting outside 24/7
in variable weather for a couple years (which is pretty much how I treat
this vehicle - it's a Jeep, and not a particularly pretty one, although
it runs well and I don't feel like searching for a replacement.)

[Nate Nagel]

On 10/17/2013 03:01 AM, m6onz5a wrote:
> if fastenal doesn't stock them you'll have to buy a box

Actually even if they did stock them I'd have to buy a box :/

I just don't know where to get them? I guess hex head bolts it is...

[Steve W.]

Nate Nagel wrote:
> On 10/16/2013 08:07 PM, Tegger wrote:
>> Nate Nagel <njn...@roosters.net> wrote in
>> news:l3mbg...@news4.newsguy.com:
>>
>>> I found that the hardware
>>> for the brass terminals, which I thought was brass, was apparently only
>>> brass plated and is rusting through the plating.
>>
>> Is this a post-type battery?
>>
>>
>
> yes, old school. The terminals that I am using look very much like these
>

> although I don't know who the original supplier was, I got them from the
> guy who made up the battery cables. I'd be mad at him, but I'm having
> no joy finding anything that uses non-rusting hardware, so he probably
> had the same issue. I could get everything off the shelf fairly easily
> to "fix" them save for the square head bolts, they're a normal
> 5/16"-18x1-1/4" battery clamp bolt, but all I can find is zinc plated steel.
>
> nate
>

How about a different style adapter? I have some on the rack that
convert a post style battery to a side terminal.

http://images.oreillyauto.com/parts/img/large/ss/stadapt.jpg

Toss on a couple battery washers, then the terminal. Replace the through
bolt with stainless or brass (you can buy single brass bolts at Lowes)
Tighten them down, coat with dielectric. Then make a couple studs/nuts
to go into the adapters using stainless or brass.

--
Steve W.

[Nate Nagel]

That's exactly what I'm trying to do - replace that through bolt with
stainless or brass. The terminals/adapters that I have are pretty much
the same as what you posted, just made from brass instead of lead. I
don't think the replacement stainless/brass through bolts are made, at
least not with square heads. It's one of those things that's not really
a *huge* deal, but it's really surprising to me that it's not readily
available.

[Nate Nagel]

On 10/17/2013 12:14 PM, Steve W. wrote:

That's exactly what I'm trying to do - replace that through bolt with
stainless or brass. The terminals/adapters that I have are pretty much
the same as what you posted, just made from brass instead of lead. I
don't think the replacement stainless/brass through bolts are made, at
least not with square heads. It's one of those things that's not really
a *huge* deal, but it's really surprising to me that it's not readily
available.