Magnetic Rust Prevention?!? True or False?!?
Greg Clough
Has anybody had any experience with devices that connect to your cars battery
and chassis, which are supposed to "MAGNETICALLY" (or should that be
Magically?!?) prevent the body from rusting?!?
I had a friend of mine tell me about one, but I'm such a sceptic I just had to
get a second opinion ... anybody got one?!?
Thanks. Greg Clough.
e-mail: gcl...@opennet.net.au
Justin Gatzemeyer
: Hi,
: Has anybody had any experience with devices that connect to your cars battery
: and chassis, which are supposed to "MAGNETICALLY" (or should that be
: Magically?!?) prevent the body from rusting?!?
I've never seen it work, but theoretically it sounds good. The magnetizing of
the chasis would create a magnetic field around the vehicle, and thus a small
electrical field. The electrical field would repel electrons which cause the
oxidation-reduction of the metal (rust). Essentially it is an electrochemical
reaction. The only thing I would worry about is the unknown effects of a
constant electromagnetic field around your body for extended periods of time.
Justin Gatzemeyer
Tulane University
jga...@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu
Charles B. Musgrave
Huh? That didn't sound that good to me...sounded kind of like hogwash. Did you
take your chemistry and physics courses at Tulane?
|> Justin Gatzemeyer
|> Tulane University
|> jga...@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu
|>
Charles
Robert Bucci
>as anybody had any experience with devices that connect to your cars
battery
>and chassis, which are supposed to "MAGNETICALLY" (or should that be
>Magically?!?) prevent the body from rusting?!?
water environment. They send a small current at high voltage through the
platform and it magnetically prevents rust.
For motor vehicles, the power requirements and the control hardware
required dont make it feasable.
Jeffrey
field. The device, whatever it is, would actually supply electricity to
the metal that would be otherwise oxidized. When metal is oxidized, it
loses electrons, and then rusts. The system would provide enough
electrons to the metal to counteract the rusting process. It's the same
principle as when steel is galvanized. Then, the zinc coating gives up
electrons to the steel to keep it from being oxidized. Make any sense?
Sorry for the chemistry lesson!
Jeff
Charles B. Musgrave
If you are going to use an impressed voltage to galvanically protect from
corrosion you might want to complete your circuit.
Also, the applied bias conteracts the corroding bias...it doesn't supply
electrons to the corroding reaction the way a sacrifical metal might.
Sorry for hte chemistry lesson!
|>
|> Jeff
|>
|> jmh...@mailbox.syr.edu
|>
Charles
Charles B. Musgrave
|> In rec.autos.tech gcl...@opennet.net.au (Greg Clough) said:
|>
|>
|> >as anybody had any experience with devices that connect to your cars
|> battery
|> >and chassis, which are supposed to "MAGNETICALLY" (or should that be
|> >Magically?!?) prevent the body from rusting?!?
|>
|> I know that offshore oil platforms use ANODES to prevent rust in the salt
|> water environment. They send a small current at high voltage through the
|> platform and it magnetically prevents rust.
It does not magnetically prevent rust. You could either use a sacrificial
metal or an impressed voltage. In the case of a ship you can complete
the electric circuit, whereas you can't do it in a car.
|>
|> For motor vehicles, the power requirements and the control hardware
|> required dont make it feasable.
|>
Charles
Alexey Danilkovich
B. Musgrave) wrote:
> It does not magnetically prevent rust. You could either use a sacrificial
> metal or an impressed voltage. In the case of a ship you can complete
> the electric circuit, whereas you can't do it in a car.
It is not quite truth exept the space vaccuo maybe. And what about
leaking-batteries, or just batteries loosing the charge during the
storage?
The point is the air does content charged stuff (ions) to conduct nowhere. That
is the reason why virgin Me lose electron(s) and become Me+ to be converted into
common rust very fast. And please, lets assume the rust is a result of electro -
chemistry but not any magnetically-driven imagination.
> Charles
The theory may help to suggest possibility to prevent rust formation
during the storage by simple applying EDF (electron-driving forse) is
nessesary to keep cars body under negative potential to compensate lost of
electrons during deionization of enviromentall air. All one would need for
that is to shift negative potential of battery when engine is shut down
from zero to zero+(e-), where e - is the number of electrons are ready to
leave. That means it is nessesary to keep opening some very weak circuite.
I'm pretty shure the loss of power from battery during this gate is
minimal comparing to final cost getting from rust. Besides, garage owners
could use some external sources of power to keep charge of battery as
intact. Finally, I got a question: could anyone explane please, what is
that "Nord Star" system on recent Caddilac Seville. It sounds ( in
translation) like one of prototype such a system has been tried in Europe
some time ago.
P.S. Charles, there is nothing personal here. With my respect,
DAN.
Charles B. Musgrave
|> In article <3n8vtq$2...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, c...@wag.caltech.edu (Charles
|> B. Musgrave) wrote:
|>
|> > It does not magnetically prevent rust. You could either use a sacrificial
|> > metal or an impressed voltage. In the case of a ship you can complete
|> > the electric circuit, whereas you can't do it in a car.
|>
|> It is not quite truth exept the space vaccuo maybe. And what about
|> leaking-batteries, or just batteries loosing the charge during the
|> storage?
|> The point is the air does content charged stuff (ions) to conduct nowhere. That
|> is the reason why virgin Me lose electron(s) and become Me+ to be converted into
My steel bike stays quite rust free when it sits in my room at home. When I take
it out and sweat on it a bit, it rusts quite fast. Obviously it isn't ions in
the air, but the chemistry of the condensate.
|> common rust very fast. And please, lets assume the rust is a result of electro -
|> chemistry but not any magnetically-driven imagination.
I already said that.
|>
|> > Charles
|>
|> The theory may help to suggest possibility to prevent rust formation
|> during the storage by simple applying EDF (electron-driving forse) is
|> nessesary to keep cars body under negative potential to compensate lost of
|> electrons during deionization of enviromentall air. All one would need for
|> that is to shift negative potential of battery when engine is shut down
|> from zero to zero+(e-), where e - is the number of electrons are ready to
|> leave. That means it is nessesary to keep opening some very weak circuite.
I think you need to read up a bit on the primary causes of rusting in iron
alloys.
|> I'm pretty shure the loss of power from battery during this gate is
|> minimal comparing to final cost getting from rust. Besides, garage owners
|> could use some external sources of power to keep charge of battery as
|> intact. Finally, I got a question: could anyone explane please, what is
|> that "Nord Star" system on recent Caddilac Seville. It sounds ( in
|> translation) like one of prototype such a system has been tried in Europe
|> some time ago.
|> P.S. Charles, there is nothing personal here. With my respect,
|> DAN.
The potential drop across a metal/water interface will float with the applied
potential unless the circuit is complete. It is like trying to drive an
electrochemical cell with only a half cell.
Here is a simple test. You can use a a battery in an electrochemical cell
to reverse the current and reverse the reactions at the cathode and anode.
Now, taking the cathode out of the cell...but letting it stay moist with the
cell solution as you pull it out...what happens? The reversed reaction (and
forward one too if it was ECF driven) stop.
have a good one,
Charles
Matt Lundberg
Alexey Danilkovich <U25...@uicvm.uic.edu> wrote:
>
>I am afraid I'm not. There must be Hydrogen potential in this game, if you
>are saying about water-based current-carrier. In this system there is no
>way to reverse reaction from Fe(OH)3 --> Fe + Water + Hydrogen. Or
>whatever else. So still the question is WHY BATTERY LOSES THE CHARGE
>DURING STORAGE.
Batteries do lose charge during storage, but it is really minimal.
And it is not due to current (or electrons) migrating from one pole
to the other. It is due to the imperfect insulation inherent in
the battery itself. A battery cannot work if all of its active
parts are also perfect insulators. So you always have some leakage
current. Battery mfrs (especially those who make disposable types)
work long and hard to minimize this effect, so they can have a
longer shelf life. Lithium batteries are one direct result of
the quandry.
Matt Lundberg
Alexey Danilkovich
B. Musgrave) wrote:
> In article <U25628-2204...@moore.gene.uic.edu>,
U25...@uicvm.uic.edu (Alexey Danilkovich) writes:
> |> It is not quite truth exept the space vaccuo maybe. And what about
> |> leaking-batteries, or just batteries loosing the charge during the
> |> storage?
> |> The point is the air does content charged stuff (ions) to conduct
nowhere. > |> That
> |> is the reason why virgin Me lose electron(s) and become Me+ to be
converted > |> into
>
> My steel bike stays quite rust free when it sits in my room at home. When I
> take
> it out and sweat on it a bit, it rusts quite fast. Obviously it isn't ions in
> the air, but the chemistry of the condensate.
> |> common rust very fast. And please, lets assume the rust is a result of
> |> electro -
> |> chemistry but not any magnetically-driven imagination.
>
> I already said that.
I really missed this point in your original post. Sorry.
> |>
> |> > Charles
> |>
> |> The theory may help to suggest possibility to prevent rust formation
> |> during the storage by simple applying EDF (electron-driving forse) is
> |> nessesary to keep cars body under negative potential to compensate lost of
> |> electrons during deionization of enviromentall air. All one would need for
> |> that is to shift negative potential of battery when engine is shut down
> |> from zero to zero+(e-), where e - is the number of electrons are ready to
> |> leave. That means it is nessesary to keep opening some very weak circuite.
>
> I think you need to read up a bit on the primary causes of rusting in iron
> alloys.
Actually I did. But the point is a cars are still getting rust that make
my suspition the books you recommend to read still didn't answer some
question.
> |> I'm pretty shure the loss of power from battery during this gate is
> |> minimal comparing to final cost getting from rust. Besides, garage owners
> |> could use some external sources of power to keep charge of battery as
> |> intact. Finally, I got a question: could anyone explane please, what is
> |> that "Nord Star" system on recent Caddilac Seville. It sounds ( in
> |> translation) like one of prototype such a system has been tried in Europe
> |> some time ago.
> |> P.S. Charles, there is nothing personal here. With my respect,
> |> DAN.
>
>
> The potential drop across a metal/water interface will float with the applied
> potential unless the circuit is complete. It is like trying to drive an
> electrochemical cell with only a half cell.
So you believe the rust is formed during the contact Me/Water only?
I don't think so. Reaction with water is fastest to get rust. But the car
is getting rust from behind the paint. Trik-or-treat! What about this?
You don't think the water is getting through the paint, do you?
But molecules of gas do penetrate painting. And some of these molecules
are charged, believe me, I can smell it after every Thunderstorm. And if
you still insist the circuite between cars' body and the air is open than
answer me WHY
very new battery loses charge just in duration of storage.
> Here is a simple test. You can use a a battery in an electrochemical cell
> to reverse the current and reverse the reactions at the cathode and anode.
> Now, taking the cathode out of the cell...but letting it stay moist with the
> cell solution as you pull it out...what happens? The reversed reaction (and
> forward one too if it was ECF driven) stop.
>
> have a good one,
I am afraid I'm not. There must be Hydrogen potential in this game, if you
are saying about water-based current-carrier. In this system there is no
way to reverse reaction from Fe(OH)3 --> Fe + Water + Hydrogen. Or
whatever else. So still the question is WHY BATTERY LOSES THE CHARGE
DURING STORAGE.
>
> Charles
-----------
It is my plesure to reveal the topik. I'm not sure I'm wrong.
Alexey.
kwun han
In article <3n625d$h...@rs10.tcs.tulane.edu>, jga...@rs6.tcs.tulane.edu (Justin Gatzemeyer) writes:
|> Greg Clough (gcl...@opennet.net.au) wrote:
|> : Hi,
|>
|> : Magically?!?) prevent the body from rusting?!?
|>
|> the chasis would create a magnetic field around the vehicle, and thus a small
|> electrical field. The electrical field would repel electrons which cause the
|> oxidation-reduction of the metal (rust). Essentially it is an electrochemical
|> reaction. The only thing I would worry about is the unknown effects of a
|> constant electromagnetic field around your body for extended periods of time.
I seems to remember that people use this method for steel ship body so
that they won't rust, if that is true, it should apply equally well to
steel car bodies too.
--
=) Kwun
-----------------------------------------------------------------
k...@cs.brown.edu | Box #2392, Brown University,
k...@lems.brown.edu | Providence, RI 02912
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Charles B. Musgrave
|> In article <3n6gmi$j...@gap.cco.caltech.edu> c...@wag.caltech.edu (Charles B. Musgrave) writes:
|> In article <3n625d$h...@rs10.tcs.tulane.edu>, jga...@rs6.tcs.tulane.edu (Justin Gatzemeyer) writes:
|> |> Greg Clough (gcl...@opennet.net.au) wrote:
|> |> : Hi,
|> |>
|> |> : Has anybody had any experience with devices that connect to your cars battery
|> |> : and chassis, which are supposed to "MAGNETICALLY" (or should that be
|> |> : Magically?!?) prevent the body from rusting?!?
|> |>
|> |> I've never seen it work, but theoretically it sounds good. The magnetizing of
|> |> the chasis would create a magnetic field around the vehicle, and thus a small
|> |> electrical field. The electrical field would repel electrons which cause the
|> |> oxidation-reduction of the metal (rust). Essentially it is an electrochemical
|> |> reaction. The only thing I would worry about is the unknown effects of a
|> |> constant electromagnetic field around your body for extended periods of time.
|>
|> I seems to remember that people use this method for steel ship body so
|> that they won't rust, if that is true, it should apply equally well to
|> steel car bodies too.
Usually ships have large anodes of zinc which has a lower galvanic potential
than iron. Impressed voltages are used in some see applications, but
remember a ship is floating in a ionic solution while cars aren't. Impressed
voltages are also hooked up to buried pipelines, etc. Remember that the
body of your car is already electrically connected to your battery too.
|> --
|> =) Kwun
|> -----------------------------------------------------------------
|> k...@cs.brown.edu | Box #2392, Brown University,
|> k...@lems.brown.edu | Providence, RI 02912
|> -----------------------------------------------------------------
Charles
Brian S C Lau
more electronegative than the other. I think this happens because rain
water isn't pure H2O, but has ions in it. I think if you dunked some iron
in distilled water and left it there it won't corrode (errr... not sure) in
that manner. Ugghh... forgot how the details went, but the cathodic area
accepts electrons from the anodic area. When molecules in the anodic
area lose electrons, they are susceptible to reacting with the Oxygen
ions in the water (water isn't really H2O I think, but a lot of H2 and O
ions together... I think that's how it went in my book). Therefore the
iron ions react with the Oxygen ions and you get ferrous oxide (rust).
To protect metals from corrosion, one method is called cathodic protection.
It involves a donor metal (anode) which corrodes instead of the metal you're
trying to protect. The anode supplies electrons to the other metal,
protecting it from corrosion by making it more electronegative (I think).
To do this, a rectifier is connected from the anode to the cathode which
drives the electron movement. But, there also has to be a complete circuit
as a connection from the cathode to the anode. I really forgot the details,
Charles, can you correct me on this? All I really remember is that my
Materials Science instructor told us that those magnetic devices that claim
to prevent rust don't work, unless we drive our cars through water all the
time...
Brian
Christopher Lawson
:I seems to remember that people use this method for steel ship body so
:that they won't rust, if that is true, it should apply equally well to
:steel car bodies too.
The system you are refering to on ships is the addition of sacrificial
chunks of zinc. The battery effect between the steel hull, the zinc
blocks, with the seawater as the electrolyte works very well. I causes
the zinc to errode away instead of the steel, the zinc blocks need to
be replaced frequently and are alot easier to replace than a piece of
the hull.
Air doesn't work as an electrolyte very well so this system doesn't
work worth a damn on cars (unless you drive underwater).
############################
# Chris Lawson #
# law...@oasys.dt.navy.mil #
############################
mahadev...@gmail.com
> Hi,
>
> Has anybody had any experience with devices that connect to your cars battery
> and chassis, which are supposed to "MAGNETICALLY" (or should that be
> Magically?!?) prevent the body from rusting?!?
>
> get a second opinion ... anybody got one?!?
>
> Thanks. Greg Clough.
>
> e-mail: gcl...@opennet.net.a
I can suggest you my personal experience which is very convenient and non-expensive. Collect a few magnets of the old loud speakers which are already useless, remove whatever is around the magnet, go to your car, just attach those magnets to the underneath of the car at those points where you think there is a chance for rusting. You can JUST FORGET what you have done for years. This will really prevent your car from rusting. Before disposing of your car just check that the magnets are in position and see for any rusting around those magnets. DO YOU LIKE MY IDEA?
MAHADEVAN, KERALA, INDIA
bru...@topmail.co.nz
> Hi,
>
> Has anybody had any experience with devices that connect to your cars battery
> and chassis, which are supposed to "MAGNETICALLY" (or should that be
> Magically?!?) prevent the body from rusting?!?
>
beach...@gmail.com
> Hi,
>
> Has anybody had any experience with devices that connect to your cars battery
> and chassis, which are supposed to "MAGNETICALLY" (or should that be
> Magically?!?) prevent the body from rusting?!?
>
> get a second opinion ... anybody got one?!?
>
> Thanks. Greg Clough.
>
I had one on my 1989 Mercedes Benz 300TE Wagon over here in Australia. I couldn't tell if it worked or not because the car was rusting out anyway. We lived near the beach, and that didn't help the car. I bought a truck from https://rustfreetruck.com in Las Vegas, Nevada. Of course it's rust free, yet I'm concerned if I ship it over to Australia, it's gonna turn out like my Mercedes. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks,
Cary H.