Transporting 20 gallons of gas in your trunk and storing in your back yard in the open air question
Bill Murphy
5-gallon jerry jugs of gasoline for my bikes and equipment and off-road
vehicles.
I don't see that it's all that much of a danger, considering we keep two
cars in the garage with twice that much gasoline essentially inside the
house - while this is outside along the fence.
But, my neighbor noticed the four jugs recently and asked about them. I
said I never knew gas to spontaneously explode and he said the sun could
cause it to happen. He also said it's illegal to transport more than a
single five-gallon can in your trunk (is that true?).
Is it all that dangerous to keep 20 gallons of gas in the back yard?
Is it illegal to trasnsport more than 5 gallons (California) in a car?
cuh...@webtv.net
cuhulin
Frank
willy
it would be better out of the sun. Less fumes and less volitable.
willy
dangerous if not done properly. The best way to store gasoline is in a
well ventilated area separate from the house. The location should have
no electrical equipment, open flames or other sources of ignition
present. In addition, the location should be protected from the heat
of the summer sun to keep evaporation to a minimum.
http://nasdonline.org/document/919/d000760/storing-gasoline-and-other-flammables.html
JoeSpareBedroom
news:95358296-efa8-4beb...@w30g2000yqw.googlegroups.com...
> My concern is with all the fumes. It won't explode from the sun, but
> it would be better out of the sun. Less fumes and less volitable.
Less expansion & contraction of the containers if out of the sun. I've seen
some plastic jugs which looked like they'd been squeezed by giant hands when
the temp went down.
dsi1
Buy an old Caddie or two, fill up the tanks and park it in your back
yard along with your bikes and off-road vehicles. Tell your nosy
neighbor to mind his own business.
HeyBub
I'd be more concerned about the buttinsky neighbor than the gasoline.
Tony Hwang
First are you using legal explosion proof container to increase safety
margin? Do you smell gas when your car is parked in the garage? Better
be safe than sorry applies here.
Bill Murphy
> First are you using legal explosion proof container to increase safety
> margin? Do you smell gas when your car is parked in the garage?
To answer your question, I never smell fumes. I'm using those CARB EPA
Blitz gasoline prisons. The gas has been tested to not lose an ounce (they
test loss by weight) even after a year in the sun.
The article referenced says it's safe to store small amounts of gasoline in
the garage or other well ventilated shelter.
It doesn't say anything about transport.
Any ideas what the laws are on transport?
cuh...@webtv.net
what I would do.
cuhulin
Elmo
> Buy an old Caddie or two, fill up the tanks and park it in your back
> yard along with your bikes and off-road vehicles
In theory, one could remove the 20-gallon gas tank from an automobile
junker, and, assuming all the hoses and caps are intact, store 20 gallons
in the single gas tank unobtrusively along that fence.
Pouring it out would be by adding 12 volts to the fuel pump, I guess.
But I'd wonder about the legality of storing gas in a gas tank. Seems like
that's what it's made for, but, maybe not legal outside the vehicle.
dsi1
How about converting a small car or a golf cart into a small tanker by
replacing the rear seat/trunk area with a gas tank? A hundred gallons
ought to do the trick. As far as the legality of it all, it's probably
best not to ask such things. We want the option of plausible
deniability. :-)
Tony Hwang
I often use surplus army jerry can filled with gas, propane tak say
going camping. I never keep them in a space like confined trunk. If
you have to keep them in the trunk while in transit, I'd keep the lid
open ajar for venting in case. Worst thing happened to me was overfilled
propane tank started hising releasing gas.
Ed Pawlowski
"Bill Murphy" <billm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:i25klu$6aq$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Your state or local laws may vary
From: Stephen D. Coan, State Fire Marshal
We are receiving many calls in our office with regard to the transportation
of gasoline in vehicles and whether the use of a "gas-caddy" is legal in the
Commonwealth. As a result of these calls, I am issuing this information.
In accordance with 527 CMR 8.21(5), .gasoline or other flammable petroleum
product may be transported without a permit in any open vehicle or in a
compartment of a closed vehicle separated from passengers, in total quantity
not to exceed 21 gallons, provided such flammable liquid is contained in
approved containers with no individual container exceeding seven gallons
capacity. We request that this information be shared with gas stations in
your area.
Further, the use of "gas-caddys" for the transportation of gasoline and/or
diesel fuel is not allowed in the Commonwealth. The use of "gas-caddys" is
confined to on-site storage at permitted locations
New York State
Safety Bulletin Index - Transporting Gasoline and Diesel Fuel
(Code: SB-96-2, Date: 6/10/96)
Transportation of fuel shall be accomplished by portable fuel cans with a
maximum capacity of 5 gallons each, or cargo fuel tanks. All containers
shall be properly labeled.
Gasoline shall only be transported in approved 5 gallon portable gas cans,
with a limit of four (4) cans per vehicle.
Portable five (5) gallon cans transported on any Department vehicle or
equipment shall be fastened in a vented box, or lashed to the body of the
vehicle with web straps, using eyebolts through the side of the body backed
up by a 3 inch x 3 inch x 3/16 inch steel backing plate. There shall be two
eyebolt anchor points for each can.
Only steel or aluminum Type I or Type II safety cans shall be used to
transport gasoline.
Steve B
If you are referring to 5 gallon metal jerry can's, that's about all you can
do for them. I would put them in the shade, though. Leaving any breather
opening is an invitation for condensation from the can "breathing" by
getting alternately hot and cold. I would make an effort to "hide" these
from this neighbor, or move them to an area that does not abut his property.
These aren't inherently dangerous or unstable, but scary. Gasoline combusts
at +260C. It would be damn hard to reach that temperature. But, any spark,
slight brush fire, or lightning strike could be disastrous.
I was standing in a screen porch area of my house one time, and lightning
hit the pecan tree out side. It came down the tree, jumped to my truck,
blew off diagonal hubcaps on my truck, jumped to a cow, killing it, fried
the dryer I was standing beside, and killed a TV in another room. So, I can
say, after having lightning strike within 10 feet of me then and three other
times in my life, **it happens.
Is this spot on the fence away from structures, or out in the country, a
hundred feet away from structures? Or is it in a neighborhood, close to the
houses?
For me, it would almost be better to keep it in the garage. And do you use
enough to justify keeping 20 gallons on hand? Do you have a backup power
generator that you need to keep a supply for? And what about Stabil? I
know it's a hassle, but how about filling up the night before the ride?
I used to poo poo the stories of gas catching fire at filling stations, then
I saw videos, and then a guy two aisles over at the gas station did it.
Man, was that scary. So, the guy does have some valid concerns.
And if you DO have a spark and a gas fire/explosion either in your car, your
yard, or in your garage, it's going to be nasty, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, IT
MIGHT NOT BE COVERED BY YOUR INSURANCE DUE TO IMPROPER STORAGE OF HAZARDOUS
MATERIALS. Whatever the hell that means. They do have fires at gas
storage yards all the time in the industry, so essentially, there's no safe
way to handle this stuff, and when it's your turn to have an "event", it's
just your turn. You can argue all you want that they were in OSHA MSHA DOT
approved containers, but the fact that there was a fire proves right there
that something was not right.
I wouldn't want my neighbor to put twenty gallons along my fence.
Especially if it is within 100 feet of any structures of mine. **it does
happen. He may be a royal PITA, but he does have somewhat of a point. And
you have to live next door to him. I also personally wouldn't carry that
much gas in the trunk. Too many idiots on the road, and if they rear-end
you, it's going to be nasty. Or there's just a spark from the lights
..............
Steve
visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com
Harry Face
truck. Looks like chrome plated skid plate and there about 300
gallons...
Harryface
notbob
> Is it all that dangerous to keep 20 gallons of gas in the back yard?
> Is it illegal to trasnsport more than 5 gallons (California) in a car?
Whatever you do, don't ask a govt agency!
When I still lived in CA, my buddy wanted to buy av-gas for his
stroked HD. The airport, jes down the street, wouldn't sell it to him
until he a).... b).... c)... etc. He then tried to comply with
those requirements and called the Fire Dept for info. It got real
regulatory and really expensive very quickly. Only if stored in yada
yada...! He finally went with low compression heads for his stroker.
CA is real anal about that kinda stuff. I went one better and moved
to CO. ;)
nb
Steve B
<james...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:78nd4615rssubsghm...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:30:14 -0700, "Steve B"
> <pittma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>And if you DO have a spark and a gas fire/explosion either in your car,
>>your
>>yard, or in your garage, it's going to be nasty, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, IT
>
> up gas and oil.
You ignorant slut. Why don't we just take an example from everyday Joe
Average who burns up several houses, gas stations, cars, and businesses a
day from the improper use of gasoline? The business of oil drilling is
hazardous. Anything to do with oil is hazardous. I worked in the oilfields
for ten years. What do you base your statements on? BP is in the business
of providing oil. That's translated to gasoline so you can drive
unnecessarily 65% of the time. It is bad business for them to blow up
anything, which they did not. They were careless, and there was an
accident, just like the OP has the potential to do if he handles gasoline.
Sooner or later, everyone has at least one accident.
Except you, who are perfect.
Ed
who comes upon these cans and decided to light a match to see what
happens.
ransley
I would just keep it out of any direct sun, not store it for months as
some volitile components will escape through plastic, degrading the
gas, yes it airtight but not 100% impermiable and be sure you have no
enemies.
HeyBub
On transportation - How else is the gas going to get from where it is to
where it needs to be? Perhaps it could miracle itself?
Steve Barker
amen. tell him to myob
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
dpb
...
> From: Stephen D. Coan, State Fire Marshal
> In accordance with 527 CMR 8.21(5), .gasoline or other flammable
> petroleum product may be transported without a permit in any open
> vehicle or in a compartment of a closed vehicle separated from
So you can't take gas home to mow the yard if you have only a SUV or
other trunk-less vehicle in MA...
Nanny has struck again.
--
Roy
==
Bullshit...the neighbor has legitimate concerns. 20 gallons of
gasoline in jerry cans stored in a trunk of a car is NOT safe. If
stored in a locked garden shed isolated from all buildings or fences
it would be much safer but not ideal. Residential areas are not
designed for the storage of volatile liquids especially in the
quantities mentioned. I would not store more than 2 gallons at the
most...this would be adequate for lawnmower and weedeater usage.
People who do what THEY want and disregard OTHERS are just selfish
jerks. I have lived next to these kinds of people in the past and
believe me, it is no picnic.
==
dpb
...
> Any ideas what the laws are on transport?
While specifics vary as Ed posted, generally sotoo 20 gal is legal in
DOT-rated transport containers. It's a relatively low hazard but like
anything else, "stuff happens" and in high traffic areas or other
reasons for higher than normal accident probabilities one should be duly
aware.
OTOH, for farm use I keep a 150 gal diesel and 40 gal gasoline transport
tank in the pickup as we have done for 50 yrs or so. Compared to the
1500 gal anhydrous ammonia tank tagging along behind, the fuel risk is
quite benign... :)
As for the original question on storage, I'd try to make a shaded
location for the storage if you have no shed to minimize the chances of
lifting the safety relief on a hot day of a full can but other than that
I'd have no particular concern, either.
--
mkir...@rochester.rr.com
> On transportation - How else is the gas going to get from where it is to
> where it needs to be? Perhaps it could miracle itself?
You can transport gas, but only 5 gallons at a time, and only in an
open bed or enclosed trunk.
Of course, unless you load up ten 5-gallon jugs with gas and stack
them in the back of the minivan with the kids, in front of a cop,
nobody will be any the wiser.
Unless you ADVERTISE that you're doing something illegal, nobody is
going to know you're doing something illegal...
Yeah, let's stack a dozen gas cans along the fence where the nosy
neighbor will see them and blow the whistle on you.... That's called
being a MORON.
Too bad common sense isn't common anymore.
cuh...@webtv.net
that gas in my outdoors storage shed along with my lawn mower and some
other odds and ends.
cuhulin
HeyBub
> On Jul 21, 10:53 am, "HeyBub" <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>> On transportation - How else is the gas going to get from where it
>> is to where it needs to be? Perhaps it could miracle itself?
>
> neighbor will see them and blow the whistle on you.... That's called
> being a MORON.
>
> Too bad common sense isn't common anymore.
You make a good point. Tell the neighbor that it's pre-mixed fertilizer.
Jim Rusling
<snip>
>Bullshit...the neighbor has legitimate concerns. 20 gallons of
>gasoline in jerry cans stored in a trunk of a car is NOT safe. If
>stored in a locked garden shed isolated from all buildings or fences
>it would be much safer but not ideal. Residential areas are not
>designed for the storage of volatile liquids especially in the
>quantities mentioned. I would not store more than 2 gallons at the
>most...this would be adequate for lawnmower and weedeater usage.
>People who do what THEY want and disregard OTHERS are just selfish
>jerks. I have lived next to these kinds of people in the past and
>believe me, it is no picnic.
>
My gas mowers, edger's, generator, and so on probably hold more than
30 gallons. I normally keep 15 to 25 gallons on hand all the time to
feed all of those small engines. Most of my gas engines have 2 to 5
gallon gas tanks.
--
Jim Rusling
More or Less Retired
Mustang, OK
http://www.rusling.org
chuckcar
> I have a typical back yard, open mostly to the sun, where I store five
> 5-gallon jerry jugs of gasoline for my bikes and equipment and
> off-road vehicles.
>
> I don't see that it's all that much of a danger, considering we keep
> two cars in the garage with twice that much gasoline essentially
> inside the house - while this is outside along the fence.
>
> But, my neighbor noticed the four jugs recently and asked about them.
> I said I never knew gas to spontaneously explode and he said the sun
> could cause it to happen. He also said it's illegal to transport more
> than a single five-gallon can in your trunk (is that true?).
>
> Is it all that dangerous to keep 20 gallons of gas in the back yard?
> Is it illegal to trasnsport more than 5 gallons (California) in a car?
Do they have vent holes and/or pour spouts? If so, take the spouts out
and loosen take off the vent cap. I had a gas can (1 gallon for the
mower) that I didn't do that when I got gas at the beginning of the
year. Once it warmed up, the vapour pressure forced the gas out the top
even though it was tightly sealed. There was a gasoline smell for two
days and it could easily have lit from open flame. If your neighbour had
smelled that.. Well who wants the fire dept. and city on their tail?
BTW I live in Ontario on the other side of the border. Far farther north than
you, so less heat and different laws. We have red plastic cans here.
--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
mm
wrote:
>Roy <wil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
><snip>
>>Bullshit...the neighbor has legitimate concerns. 20 gallons of
>>gasoline in jerry cans stored in a trunk of a car is NOT safe. If
Absolutely. AFA the neighbor and I know, these could blow up and send
shrapnel all over his yard. If that's possible, the OP should know it
too, and if it's not, the OP shoould be able to relay this info to the
neighbor. He'd be a fool not to raise the subject.
>>stored in a locked garden shed isolated from all buildings or fences
>>it would be much safer but not ideal. Residential areas are not
>>designed for the storage of volatile liquids especially in the
>>quantities mentioned. I would not store more than 2 gallons at the
>>most...this would be adequate for lawnmower and weedeater usage.
>>People who do what THEY want and disregard OTHERS are just selfish
>>jerks. I have lived next to these kinds of people in the past and
>>believe me, it is no picnic.
>>
>My gas mowers, edger's, generator, and so on probably hold more than
>30 gallons. I normally keep 15 to 25 gallons on hand all the time to
>feed all of those small engines. Most of my gas engines have 2 to 5
>gallon gas tanks.
But those are are all little, separate tanks, vented gas tanks. If one
goes, it won't take the others with it (except in action movies).
FatterDumber& Happier Moe
> I have a typical back yard, open mostly to the sun, where I store five
> 5-gallon jerry jugs of gasoline for my bikes and equipment and off-road
> vehicles.
>
> I don't see that it's all that much of a danger, considering we keep two
> cars in the garage with twice that much gasoline essentially inside the
> house - while this is outside along the fence.
>
> But, my neighbor noticed the four jugs recently and asked about them. I
> said I never knew gas to spontaneously explode and he said the sun could
> cause it to happen. He also said it's illegal to transport more than a
> single five-gallon can in your trunk (is that true?).
>
> Is it all that dangerous to keep 20 gallons of gas in the back yard?
> Is it illegal to trasnsport more than 5 gallons (California) in a car?
Just how smart is this neighbor? Free gas and you ought to put a case
of beer with it.
Evan
> I have a typical back yard, open mostly to the sun, where I store five
> 5-gallon jerry jugs of gasoline for my bikes and equipment and off-road
> vehicles.
>
> I don't see that it's all that much of a danger, considering we keep two
> cars in the garage with twice that much gasoline essentially inside the
> house - while this is outside along the fence.
>
> But, my neighbor noticed the four jugs recently and asked about them. I
> said I never knew gas to spontaneously explode and he said the sun could
> cause it to happen. He also said it's illegal to transport more than a
> single five-gallon can in your trunk (is that true?).
>
> Is it all that dangerous to keep 20 gallons of gas in the back yard?
> Is it illegal to trasnsport more than 5 gallons (California) in a car?
Yes it is dangerous to keep that much gasoline stored in your
backyard... Especially in gas cans... You never know what
is going to happen to it, rather than it falling prey to some sort
of spontaneous combustion, it is more likely that it will get
spilled by someone creating a hazardous materials incident,
or that it will be stolen, tampered with by someone adding
something which will hurt your engines to it, or it could be
set on fire as an act of arson/vandalism... You would be
liable for leaving this gasoline out as at "attractive nuisance"
if someone were to spill it or make use of it for arson...
If you want to store and haul more than 20 gallons of fuel at
a time -- here is a question: I assume that you have some
sort of a pick up truck to haul around your bikes and off-road
vehicles... Yes ?
Purchase a "fuel transfer tank" for the bed of your pick-up
truck... Like one of these:
http://www.nextag.com/pickup-bed-fuel-tank/products-html
You will need to obtain a permit for it and have it inspected
periodically to transport that much fuel outside of the
vehicles actual fuel tank...
That is the best way to go... Rather than having a collection
of gasoline containers just hanging around in your yard...
~~ Evan
Bill Murphy
> I'd try to make a shaded location ... to minimize the chances of
> lifting the safety relief on a hot day of a full can
These are the new Blitz enviroflow cans. I don't think they have a safety
release.
I guess they must, but they've been tested to not leak one bit subject to
the hottest temperatures possible out in the sun for a year and they didn't
lose an ounce (they measure gas loss by weight, not volume since it expands
so much).
I always fill to the fill line and no more so I think there is no release
(which I know is contrarian thinking) engineered into these cans.
I guess if someone artificially heats them to something over 200 degrees,
they might have a release, but as far as I know, the tests show they hold
their gas (the problem is getting it out, not keeping it in).
Judy Zappacosta
> Of course, unless you load up ten 5-gallon jugs with gas and stack
> them in the back of the minivan with the kids, in front of a cop,
> going to know you're doing something illegal...
But how do you get the clandestine 5 five gallon gas cans into the trunk at
the gas station without anyone seeing you?
Bill Murphy
>> Is it all that dangerous to keep 20 gallons of gas in the back yard?
>> Is it illegal to trasnsport more than 5 gallons (California) in a car?
>
> Do they have vent holes and/or pour spouts?
They are certified EPA spillproof leakproof kidproof red plastic gasoline
cans. Gas goes in. Never comes out.
The only opening is the spout. It has special "engineering" to not let the
gas out. Gas only develops about 20psi when heated under the hot sun so
that's not enough to blow up the can (http://www.blitzusa.com/faq.htm).
There was a test of the Blitz cans on the web (gotta dig for it) which
showed absolutely zero weight loss (they measure weight not volume) for a
can out in the sun for a year IIRC. When compared to the "vented" can, the
Blitz won.
Of course, it's a B*TC* to get the gasoline OUT of the can, but that's a
whole nother topic.
LM
> Since this is California, the state which has more laws than the whole
> rest of the country combined, it might be illegal to haul more than
> one 5 gal. can in your trunk.
EPA web site says nothing about any specific volume for long term gasoline
storage.
http://www.epa.gov/epahome/hi-summer.htm
Using and Storing Gasoline In the summer, lots of portable containers are
used to store and transport fuels for lawnmowers, chainsaws and
recreational vehicles. These portable containers can emit hydrocarbons; in
addition, spills can leak into ground water. Here are some tips to follow
to reduce these concerns:
Use Proper Containers Use only containers approved by a nationally
recognized testing lab, such as Underwriters Laboratories (UL). Containers
should be fitted with a spout to allow pouring without spilling and to
minimize the generation of vapors. Always open and use gasoline containers
in a well-ventilated area away from children and animals.
Fill Cautiously Fuel equipment on a hard surface such as concrete or
asphalt and use a funnel and/or spout to prevent spilling or splashing when
fueling lawn and recreational equipment and always fuel outside where there
is adequate ventilation to disperse the vapors
Store Carefully Store as little gasoline as possible and be certain
to keep your gasoline container properly sealed. Store the gasoline in a
cool, dry place and never in direct sunlight. Store at ground level to
minimize the danger of falling and spilling. Do not store gasoline in a car
trunk. There is a threat of explosion from heat and impact. Do not store
gasoline in your basement.
Avoid Spills Avoid spilling gasoline on the ground, especially near
wells. If a small spill occurs use kitty litter, saw dust or an absorbent
towel to soak up the spill, then dispose of it properly
Dispose Properly Do not dispose of gasoline down the drain, into
surface water, onto the ground, or in the trash. You should check with your
town concerning using your local household hazardous waste collection for
safe disposal of excess or old gasoline.
LM
OSHA says the cans need to be 5 gallons or less in order to transport.
http://simplifiedsafety.com/blog/does_your_gas_can_meet_osha_requirements/
But they say nothing about how many you can transport at the same time or
where you have to put the cans.
Here's what it says.
OSHA Standard 29 CFR 1926.152(a)(1) states "Only approved containers
and portable tanks shall be used for storage and handling of flammable and
combustible liquids. Approved safety cans or Department of Transportation
approved containers shall be used for the handling and use of flammable
liquids in quantities of 5 gallons or less.
Anytime the word "shall" is used in a regulation, it means that this
rule is mandatory and must be followed.
What is an approved safety can or DOT gas can?
A safety can is (29CFR1926.155(1) an approved, closed container, of not
more than 5 gallons capacity, having a flash arresting screen, spring
closing lid and spout cover and so designed that it will safely relieve
internal pressure when subjected to fire exposure.
Approval is given by a nationally recognized testing laboratory, for
example, Underwriters' Laboratory, Inc.
Gas cans can only display DOT approval markings when they meet
stringent Department of Transportation requirements. Here is where it gets
confusing, inexpensive plastic gas cans may meet EPA (Environmental
Protection Agency) requirements, but they do NOT meet DOT rules. Some gas
cans may say they meet CARB spill-proof regulations in certain states or
AQMD (Air Quality Management
District) rules. Again, this doesn't help when trying to comply with
OSHA. None of these other regulatory agencies are the same as DOT. They
are not interchangeable.
If your head isn't already spinning, one last point. If you are
looking for a UL "approval", you will see the following words on the
product, UL Listed. If your can has a UL Classified marking, this is not
the same as UL Listed (approved). If you want more information about UL
markings, go to http://tinyurl.com/pxb9dt
LM
> I also personally wouldn't carry that much gas in the trunk.
OSHA regulations exerpts from
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_id=10673&p_table=STANDARDS
1926.152(a)(1): Approved safety cans or Department of Transportation
approved containers shall be used for the handling and use of flammable
liquids in quantities of 5 gallons or less ...
1926.152(b)(1): No more than 25 gallons of flammable or combustible liquids
shall be stored in a room outside of an approved storage cabinet ...
1926.152(b)(2): Quantities of flammable and combustible liquid in excess of
25 gallons shall be stored in an acceptable or approved cabinet meeting the
following requirements ...
1926.152(b)(3): Not more than 60 gallons of flammable or 120 gallons of
combustible liquids shall be stored in any one storage cabinet. Not more
than three such cabinets may be located in a single storage area.
Quantities in excess of this shall be stored in an inside storage room.
LM
> It's a local thing:
CARB (California Air Resource Board) states
http://www.pfcma.com/States_Compliance.htm
CARB/OTC Portable Fuel Container & Spout Regulation
Updated Apr 2008
State: Transition Date: Full Compliance Date
California Jan-01-00 Jan-01-01 Phase II regulation: Jul-01-07
Delaware Jan-01-02 Jan-01-03
Maryland Jan-01-02 Jan-01-03
New York Jan-01-02 Jan-01-03
Pennsylvania Jan-01-02 Jan-01-03
Maine Jan-01-03 Jan-01-04
Virginia Jan-01-05 (specific counties only)
Connecticut May-01-04 May-01-05
Washington DC Jan-01-05 Jan-01-06
New Jersey Jan-01-05 Jan-01-06
Texas Jan-01-06
New Hampshire Mar-01-06 Mar-01-07
Ohio Jul-01-07
Massachusetts Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection is
awaiting implementation of the U.S. EPA nation-wide Portable Fuel Container
Rules scheduled for January 2009.
Rhode Island Rhode Island Department of Environmental Management is
awaiting implementation of the U.S. EPA nation-wide Portable Fuel Container
Rules scheduled for January 2009.
Vermont The VT DEC (Dept of Environmental Conservation) is awaiting
implementation of the U.S. EPA nation-wide Portable Fuel Container Rules
scheduled for January 2009.
Illinois The IEPA is currently awaiting implementation of the U.S. EPA
nation-wide Portable Fuel Container Rules scheduled for January 2009.
National EPA Administrator signed proposed rule similar to CARB's revised
rules. Implementation date is January 2009
TimR
fire hazard.
Your neighbor doesn't know how leak proof your containers are. You
might be able to prove it to him.
But think about it. If he has a well, and you drip a little gasoline
into the groundwater, he just lost his water supply.
Even if no well, if you contaminate the groundwater under his
property, he can no longer sell his house. You're probably liable for
his property loss as well as an environmental cleanup.
And if you're storing your gasoline perfectly, but the guy before you
dripped gasoline into the groundwater, you may have trouble proving it
wasn't you.
Of course that's true if you keep your gas cans in the shed too. But
your neighbor won't know.
LM
> You will need to obtain a permit for it and have it inspected
> periodically to transport that much fuel outside of the
> vehicles actual fuel tank...
EPA Final Order
Control of Hazardous Air Pollutants From Mobile Sources; Final Rule
Federal Register / Vol. 72, No. 37 / Monday, February 26, 2007 / Rules and
Regulations
LM
> But the poster seemed to say that gasoline does not
> ignite during a crash for any reason.
Autoignition Temperature: 833 degrees F / 444 degrees C
Gulf unleaded gasoline material data sheet (MDS)
http://www.gulfoil.com/files/downloads/unleadedgasoline.PDF
LM
> An acreage or small farm will naturally require more maintenance and
> of course more gasoline or diesel. I have a 300 gallon gas tank
Transportation of Hazardous Materials - Recent Laws & Regulations
HM-200; TITLE:"Hazardous Materials in Intrastate Commerce; Technical
Amendments"; Final Rule; Effective Date 02/18/98; Published 02/18/98; 63 FR
8140.
SUMMARY: On January 8, 1997, RSPA published a final rule which amended the
Hazardous Materials Regulations (HMR) to expand the scope of the
regulations to all intrastate transportation of hazardous materials. ... In
this final rule, RSPA is: Correcting a date for States to develop
legislation authorizing certain exceptions recognized in the HMR;
clarifying packaging requirements for hazardous materials transported for
agricultural operations; correcting size requirements for identification
number markings; and clarifying that the provisions for use of
non-specification cargo tanks apply to transportation of gasoline.
Vic Smith
Don't know about storage. Others are citing rules.
I keep plastic 5 gallon, 2 gallon and 1 gallon containers in my
garage, tucked away under the workbench. One of each.
The 2 gallon is for filling the lawn mower.
Easy to handle and not spill gas.
The 1 gallon has the 2-cycle mix for the weed whacker.
The 5 gallon only comes out to replenish the others.
As to your question, the simple answer is one at a time.
No reason you have to transport all the gas at once.
Though I don't see moving 4 5-gallons jugs in the trunk as an issue if
they are reasonably secured and you don't travel far.
But I'm less than half a mile from a gas station.
If I had to travel more than a couple miles I'd probably carry one at
a time.
When I do the yearly half-mile trip with my 3 jugs it's a dedicated
trip and I'm aware of what's in the trunk the entire time.
--Vic
LM
> Any ideas what the laws are on transport?
I looked on the California DOT site and searched for hours.
http://www.dot.ca.gov/
Even a genius couldn't find what you're looking for on the California DOT
web site.
Jim Elbrecht
-snip-
>
>Don't know about storage. Others are citing rules.
>I keep plastic 5 gallon, 2 gallon and 1 gallon containers in my
>garage, tucked away under the workbench.
Just curious-- Do you ever weld, solder, grind, hammer metallic
things, or use power tools at that workbench?
I keep a 10-20 gallons gas in my garage, too-- but it is in a no-work
zone between two garage doors. Even at that I think I would be smart
to move it to its own little shed.
Jim
HeyBub
>
> Don't know about storage. Others are citing rules.
> I keep plastic 5 gallon, 2 gallon and 1 gallon containers in my
> garage, tucked away under the workbench. One of each.
> The 2 gallon is for filling the lawn mower.
> Easy to handle and not spill gas.
> The 1 gallon has the 2-cycle mix for the weed whacker.
> The 5 gallon only comes out to replenish the others.
> As to your question, the simple answer is one at a time.
> No reason you have to transport all the gas at once.
> Though I don't see moving 4 5-gallons jugs in the trunk as an issue if
> they are reasonably secured and you don't travel far.
> But I'm less than half a mile from a gas station.
> If I had to travel more than a couple miles I'd probably carry one at
> a time.
> When I do the yearly half-mile trip with my 3 jugs it's a dedicated
> trip and I'm aware of what's in the trunk the entire time.
>
We kept 5 gallons of gas on hand to replenish the 6-gallon tank on the
generator. Seemed sufficient.
Then Hurricane Yikes came along and knocked 4 million people in our city
into the no-power zone, including every gas station for fifty miles! For TEN
FREAKIN' DAYS!
I now have a LOT of six-gallon gas cans.
The next time a hurricane heads this way, I'm gonna fill every blessed one
of them! I'll stack 'em in the garage along with lawn chairs, pot plants,
garbage cans, the dog, and anything else that might blow away in 80 mph
winds. If the door-to-door gas-can inspector comes by, I'll lie or plead
exigent circumstances.
Vic Smith
wrote:
>Vic Smith <thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote:
>-snip-
>>
>>Don't know about storage. Others are citing rules.
>>I keep plastic 5 gallon, 2 gallon and 1 gallon containers in my
>>garage, tucked away under the workbench.
>
>Just curious-- Do you ever weld, solder, grind, hammer metallic
>things, or use power tools at that workbench?
>
Good point. Only thing you mentioned is I do have my bench grinder at
the end of that bench.
That bench is really 8' x 1 "x 6" boards I tied into the studs with 3
1" x 4" supports cut with 45 degree miters from the studs to the outer
edges providing support. Extra lumber I had around.
Real strong and open underneath except for the 3 angled supports.
Good place to roll my floor jack out of the way, store jack stands and
those jugs.
Sparks shouldn't get near the gas jugs, but now that you've mentioned
it, I could get them away from there, and will.
Thanks.
But I'm not moving my kerosene jugs!
>I keep a 10-20 gallons gas in my garage, too-- but it is in a no-work
>zone between two garage doors. Even at that I think I would be smart
>to move it to its own little shed.
>
I feel pretty much the same, but never smelled fumes, and the jugs
have never popped a vent open.
Now you've got me thinking that getting a little shed would be a good
idea.
--Vic
Vic Smith
wrote:
Hehe. Those with generators and hurricanes have to look at it
differently.
Once electricity goes out widespread, everything is shot to hell.
Had a 2 day outage here once.
Seemed like the end of the world.
Personally, I'd probably prefer just getting out of town to someplace
civilized when such an outage happened, but you do what you gotta do.
--Vic
Steve B
"LM" <xxxvte.lisa...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:i29h94$vdj$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
And your point is? That there is no ignition source during a vehicle crash?
What is the temperature from a spark from a electrical wire, a bursting tail
light, or steel dragging on the pavement? Is it over 833? I would think it
is less, but still, a very effective ignition source. Electrical fires
after collisions are common, even if they are not the spectacular variety.
There's lots of hot melting wires and sparks.
No?
Steve B
"Vic Smith" <thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote
> Sparks shouldn't get near the gas jugs, but now that you've mentioned
> it, I could get them away from there, and will.
> Thanks.
I hate two words. Should and probably.
Steve
visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com
Steve B
I was an associate safety professional. Yes, you may cite OSHA all day
long.
But you said containers of less than five gallons re: storage. What about
transport? You say nothing about that.
Point is, 5 gallons, 25 gallons 60 gallons (see above), any regular guy
who's been around the block a couple of times knows you can get in one hell
of a mess with a cup of gasoline or less. I knew two guys who had their
faces altered for life with less than a cup of gas.
Steve B
"Steve B" <pittma...@hotmail.com> wrote
>> 1926.152(a)(1): Approved safety cans or Department of Transportation
>> approved containers shall be used for the handling and use of flammable
>> liquids in quantities of 5 gallons or less ...
>
> But you said containers of less than five gallons re: storage. What about
> transport? You say nothing about that.
NO, sorry. You cited about 5 gallon containers for handling. Nothing
stated there about storage.
Steve
HeyBub
> "Vic Smith" <thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote
>
>> Sparks shouldn't get near the gas jugs, but now that you've mentioned
>> it, I could get them away from there, and will.
>> Thanks.
>
> I hate two words. Should and probably.
>
They're different.
"Should" implies a moral and superiority judgment on the part of one's
self-appointed betters.
"Probably" is a dispassionate evaluation of the circumstances by a logical
mind.
cuh...@webtv.net
gas.Be safe, not sorry.
cuhulin
Vic Smith
wrote:
>Steve B wrote:
>> "Vic Smith" <thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote
>>
>>> Sparks shouldn't get near the gas jugs, but now that you've mentioned
>>> it, I could get them away from there, and will.
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> I hate two words. Should and probably.
>>
>
>They're different.
>
>"Should" implies a moral and superiority judgment on the part of one's
>self-appointed betters.
>
Could just indicate indecision.
>"Probably" is a dispassionate evaluation of the circumstances by a logical
>mind.
>
Unless it's just indecision.
Anyway, I avoided both words - until now (-:
A friend would sometimes answer a question with "Maybe I might."
He just couldn't make up his mind.
--Vic
LM
>> Autoignition Temperature: 833 degrees F / 444 degrees C
>>
>> Gulf unleaded gasoline material data sheet (MDS)
>> http://www.gulfoil.com/files/downloads/unleadedgasoline.PDF
>
> And your point is? That there is no ignition source ...?
The point was to find whether gasoline, stored next to a fence, in approved
5-gallon containers, would ignite.
With an ignition temperature over 800 degrees F (MythBusters seems to think
it's only 500 degrees F so I'm not sure why the descrepancy), it's not
likely the gasoline will ever get hot enough, without a flame, to
spontaneously erupt simply stored against the fence.
Stored in a vehicle truck bed or closed trunk (or in the vehicle gas tank
for that matter), is a whole 'nother story because there could be leakage
and sparks and friction after a crash. But, a crash is a crash and is a
dangerous thing no matter what. If we're so worried about crashes, we'd
never drive anywhere so we have to take that risk in hand.
Assume someone drives 15K miles a year, for 50 years, that's 750K miles in
a lifetime. Assume in that lifetime, they have, how many? Maybe two, maybe
three accidents? Let's say five accidents just to be aggressive.
That's an accident every 150K miles. But you don't store the gas in the
trunk all the time; just to and from the gas station, which, for our sake,
we'll call 15 miles round trip.
I'm not sure how to do statistics, but, 15 miles out of 150,000 miles seems
like a percentage of about 0.01%. So, for any given fifteen miles that
you're carrying gasoline in your trunk, you have a non-zero (but pretty
small) chance of having an accident; and in that accident, you have a
smaller (but still non-zero) chance of having it blow up on you.
All in all, unless someone comes up with better math, I think you have a
better chance of having a heart attack than having your gas blow up on you
on that one trip to the gas station.
Still, I can't find what the laws are for California for transportation.
The Caltrans (DOT) site was miserable.
LM
> But you said containers of less than five gallons re: storage.
> What about transport? You say nothing about that.
I'm trying. I'm trying. :)
My husband fills my car with gas all the time from Costo runs he makes with
his car. He fills up his sedan plus four five-gallon cans at the Costco
pump. The advantage is he waits on line once but gets to fill up two cars.
The advantage to me is I never ever have to fill my gas.
So I'm also interested in the law. The Costco gas attendant can't possibly
not be seeing him do this for years. They never say anything. Neither has
anyone else. You'd think a cop or two would have been on line waiting at
some point or another. Or the trucker who fills up the huge gas tanks would
mention something.
Looking for the law, I scoured the Caltrans (fancy name for the California
DOT) web site for hours. I can't find a single document that says what the
law is for transport of gasoline in portable storage containers for
personal use.
I'll keep looking. It frustates me that something so simple is so hard to
find the law for.
LM
> You cited about 5 gallon containers for handling.
> Nothing stated there about storage.
I'm trying. I really am. I want to know myself what the law is.
I gave up on the California DOT (aka Caltrans) web site as its search
mechanism is a mess.
I googled for "California law gasoline portable storage container
transportation and storage"
It's really hard to find the law on storage and transportation of 5-gallon
gasoline containers! :(
This PDF, for example, titled "Portable Storage Containers"
(http://groups.ucanr.org/ehs/files/54035.pdf ) is typical in that it gives
suggestions, but, only one law is mentioned related to storage, and it
isn't what we're looking for (we're looking for a volume limitation).
It says "A safety can made of a heavy-gauge metal and having a cap that
automatically closes to prevent a spill if the can is dropped or tipped
over is required, under California Code of Regulations Title 8, Section
3319, for storing flammable liquids like gasoline."
So, I'm still looking for any California law that covers:
- How many gallons (if any limit exists) you can carry in your trunk
- How many gallons (if any limit exists) you can store 'along a fence'
We all know you can carry gas in your trunk; and you can leave it along
your fence; the only question is whether or not there is a legal volume
limit.
Steve B
> The point was to find whether gasoline, stored next to a fence, in
> approved
> 5-gallon containers, would ignite.
The point is, gasoline could sit out there safely for a very long time. In
the sun. And not ignite from ambient heat. And never even get close.
There's no arguing that point.
Then humans enter the equation, and, well, you know humans. And then, there
is lightning. And in California, fires of different types. And, in
California, people who smoke all sorts of things that burn.
All in all, if I were the OP, I wouldn't have a problem with it, unless it's
by the house or garage or outbuilding, and then the OP is being careless and
might get caught with his pants down one day. From the neighbor's POV, I
can see why he might be a little concerned. I don't know if we ever
established if the gas and fence location was near any house or structure,
or out in the middle of acres of desert. I wouldn't want to see twenty
gallons of gas on the other side of my fence if it was between the two
houses. You probably wouldn't want to, either.
There are lots and lots of variables here. But the one constant is that gas
is very flammable, and extremely easy to ignite by several normal every day
methods, including static electricity from a poofy sweater.
AND, when it catches fire, it's usually nasty and leaves a big mess.
And melts plastic sweaters on to people in a heartbeat.
Steve B
"HeyBub" <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:oJCdnRw3l8rgCdXR...@earthlink.com...
Now I hate them even more. AND you.
Just kidding about the second part.
chaniarts
i suppose you could devolve to an old fashioned method. do you have a phone?
perhaps you could call them up.
frankly, if it's not a citable law, they can't write a ticket for it, making
the limit be...as much as you want.
there really isn't a law or regulation for everything, even though it
sometimes seems so.
Bill Murphy
> There are lots and lots of variables here. But the one constant is that gas
> is very flammable, and extremely easy to ignite by several normal every day
> methods, including static electricity from a poofy sweater.
I think we've answered one of the questions:
Is it all that dangerous to keep 20 gallons of gas in the back yard?
We all know that there are plenty of dangerous things we keep around our
house (I have 1,000 gallons of propane in a tank ten feet away from the
house, for example), and gasoline in portable storage containers is one of
those things nearly every one of us has in our garage or shed.
As far as I've read in this thread, the only limits I have in storage
(besides common sense) are the ones from OSHA which I'm well within.
But I don't think we have been able to answer the second question:
Is it illegal to trasnsport more than 5 gallons (California) in a car?
I'm searching the California codes as we speak and can't find anything
telling me how many 5-gallon gas jugs we can carry in the trunk of a car:
http://law.justia.com/california/codes/veh.html
Bill Murphy
> Now I hate them even more.
Looking for the law, as far as I can see, California regulates "cargo
tanks" which are defined as being over 120 gallons in capacity:
http://law.justia.com/california/codes/veh/34000-34006.html
I just can't find a law in California for transportation of 5-gallon
portable gasoline containers in the trunk of a car yet.
LM
> perhaps you could call them up.
Whom would you call?
I can imagine the phone call now ....
"Hello, Caltrans switchboard ... what extension please?"
-> Lisa: "Um... I don't know what extension. I just want to look up a law".
"What extension please, maaam"
--> Lisa: "Um ... I don't know. I'd like to ask a question about gas laws"
"I asked the question first, maaam. What extension please?"
--> Lisa: "Um ... I really don't know whom I want to talk to. Someone who
can answer a question about how many gallons of gasoline you can carry in
the trunk of your car"
"What extension please"
...
And so on ... like a broken record ...
JimT
"Roy" <wil...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:18f66ad1-4cb5-4a37...@n19g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 21, 8:59 am, Steve Barker <ichasetra...@notgmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/20/2010 8:52 PM, HeyBub wrote:
>
>
>
> > Bill Murphy wrote:
> >> I have a typical back yard, open mostly to the sun, where I store five
> >> 5-gallon jerry jugs of gasoline for my bikes and equipment and
> >> off-road vehicles.
>
> >> I don't see that it's all that much of a danger, considering we keep
> >> two cars in the garage with twice that much gasoline essentially
> >> inside the house - while this is outside along the fence.
>
> >> But, my neighbor noticed the four jugs recently and asked about them.
> >> I said I never knew gas to spontaneously explode and he said the sun
> >> could cause it to happen. He also said it's illegal to transport more
> >> than a single five-gallon can in your trunk (is that true?).
>
> >> Is it all that dangerous to keep 20 gallons of gas in the back yard?
>
>
> amen. tell him to myob
>
> --
> Steve Barker
> remove the "not" from my address to email
==
Bullshit...the neighbor has legitimate concerns. 20 gallons of
gasoline in jerry cans stored in a trunk of a car is NOT safe. If
stored in a locked garden shed isolated from all buildings or fences
it would be much safer but not ideal. Residential areas are not
designed for the storage of volatile liquids especially in the
quantities mentioned. I would not store more than 2 gallons at the
most...this would be adequate for lawnmower and weedeater usage.
People who do what THEY want and disregard OTHERS are just selfish
jerks. I have lived next to these kinds of people in the past and
believe me, it is no picnic.
==
I second the neighbor has legitimate concerns. He's doing his neighbor a
solid by telling him it maybe illegal and dangerous. If the OP's house
burned down the group would be saying "Why didn't the neighbor say
something?" <g>
Bill Murphy
> Is it illegal to trasnsport more than 5 gallons (California) in a car?
This seems to be a decent California laws search engine:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html
But it only found the previously mentioned law regarding transportation of
more than 120 gallons of gasoline in California at a time.
At this point, there seems to be no specific law in California regulating
the transportation (or storage) of gasoline in 5 gallon cans.
Oren
Should we change "should" to shall?
Probably not, but we _ought_ too!
JimT
We have a really good info line here. I can call 311 and get almost any
question, regarding the city, answered. It's pretty impresssive. Another
thing is, most, if not all, local and state statutes are on the internet. He
could Google it. May take some time.
Bill Murphy
> I would not store more than 2 gallons at the most...
At this point, I just want to find out what the law says about storage and
transportation of 5-gallon gasoline containers.
So far, nobody can come up with a California law. NY law was interesting
though. So a Ca law probably exists (hell, in California, you can't even
put a GPS on the windshield).
We just can't find any California law regarding either storage of 5-gallon
cans of gasoline or transportation of 5-gallon portable containers filled
with gasoline.
BTW, 2 gallons is ridiculously small. I use a 2-gallon can just for the
two-stroke equipment, let alone the four-stroke equipment and the off-road
bikes and the riding mower and the generator. Two gallons would last less
than a few hours, being so ridiculously small as to not be feasible.
So far, the law seems to start at 120 gallons, which is way above the
practical minimum. I'd guess the practicable minimum for an average
homeowner to be at least 5 gallons (assuming only minor lawn equipment).
You always need an absolute minimum of two cans, one for the two strokes,
and one for the four stroke engines.
JimT
"Bill Murphy" <billm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:i2aavd$g73$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:40:52 -0500, JimT wrote:
>
>> I would not store more than 2 gallons at the most...
For the record that was "mm" that wrote that. I have more than 2 gal on
site. 2 for my lawn mower and maybe a gal for the edger. I was just
commenting that it "sounds" like your neighbor is just concerned. <g> I
haven't said a word to one of my neighbors in about 3 years, but he's a
butthole.
Oren
<billm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>But I don't think we have been able to answer the second question:
>Is it illegal to trasnsport more than 5 gallons (California) in a car?
>
>I'm searching the California codes as we speak and can't find anything
>telling me how many 5-gallon gas jugs we can carry in the trunk of a car:
>http://law.justia.com/california/codes/veh.html
How many times in the last 20 years or so has a police officer asked
if you were carrying to many gallons of gas in the trunk?
None I bet. Cal DOT is not out there on the roads trying to capture
you.
Moonshine haulin' is another story.
Kurt Ullman
Oren <Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> None I bet. Cal DOT is not out there on the roads trying to capture
> you.
>
> Moonshine haulin' is another story.
Largely because the taxes are already paid on the gas. They do have
their priorities you know. (g).
--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist
Steve B
"Bill Murphy" <billm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
> We all know that there are plenty of dangerous things we keep around our
> house (I have 1,000 gallons of propane in a tank ten feet away from the
> house, for example), and gasoline in portable storage containers is one of
> those things nearly every one of us has in our garage or shed.
In my state, and I think they quoted me federal law, you can have no more
than a 125 gallon tank within close range to a structure. That is why the
tanks are 124 gallons. I know, I went to buy one on a kitchen remodel.
That is why we did not go with the big tank - distance. If you have that
much stored that close, you are in violation. You should check on that
before a concerned neighbor does.
chaniarts
every house in my neighborhood has one larger than 125 quite close to the
house (there is no nat gas in the area and it's out in the sticks). i have a
500g tank buried about 20ft from my garage. it was inspected by both the
town and fire dept when the house was built.
Steve B
And I imagine one would have to be a DOT certified and licensed transport
company to haul such tanks.
Roy
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:40:52 -0500, JimT wrote:
>
>> I would not store more than 2 gallons at the most...
>
> At this point, I just want to find out what the law says about storage and
> transportation of 5-gallon gasoline containers.
>
> So far, nobody can come up with a California law. NY law was interesting
> though. So a Ca law probably exists (hell, in California, you can't even
> put a GPS on the windshield).
>
> We just can't find any California law regarding either storage of 5-gallon
> cans of gasoline or transportation of 5-gallon portable containers filled
> with gasoline.
>
You should contact your local planning department with regards to
storage. They are the best place to start. Another good place is your
local fire department since it involves hazardous material storage.
As far as transportation, I did find this
"It is ILLEGAL to transport more than 15 gallons or 125 pounds of
hazardous waste in your personal vehicle."
I suspect 15 gallons of gasoline is the maximum not counting the vehicle
fuel tank.
usenet-659f...@asgard.slcc.edu
<pittma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I hate two words. Should and probably.
I should probably hate them too.
--
Due to Usenet spam, emailed replies must pass an intelligence test: if
you want me to read your reply, be sure to include this line of text in
your email, but remove this line before sending, otherwise my filters
will delete your email with all due prejudice. Thanks!
jgar the jorrible
This is the kind of thing I think of when I see Swedish police (or
whoever that was) using a harpoon into the trunk to stop cars. Oh
sorry, Finland: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/dave/barry012207.php3
During the first gas crisis, my brother bought a truckload of 6 gallon
containers, which we filled and kept for his business in a shed
attached to the back of the building. It was in a commercial building
next to an elementary school that backed up to an apartment complex
carport. A few years later, some drug dealers bombed a car in the
carport, burning down the shed. Or so I was told. I still use one.
Container that is.
When I was in college, I remember a professor died and they had to
call in a bomb squad robot when they found some old reagent grade
peroxide on a shelf. It seems some materials form long, unstable
chains when left standing for a long time, becoming extremely
explosive like the old cartoon nitroglycerin. Gas just turns to
varnish, I can tell you from experience.
jg
--
@home.com is bogus.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/jul/20/border-arrests-land-cache-weapons-cash/
cuh...@webtv.net
toy car with a little bitty tank of gasoline on it.That was cool,
watching that toy car trailing a flame along behind it.
cuhulin
cuh...@webtv.net
Two words,,, my friends call me Two Guns, I answer when they
callllll,,,,,,
cuhulin
Smitty Two
LM <xxxvte.lisa...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Still, I can't find what the laws are for California for transportation.
> The Caltrans (DOT) site was miserable.
Maybe it isn't the right place to look. The first paragraph of the
"About" page reads:
"Caltrans manages more than 50,000 miles of California's highway and
freeway lanes, provides inter-city rail services, permits more than 400
public-use airports and special-use hospital heliports, and works with
local agencies. Caltrans carries out its mission of improving mobility
across California with six primary programs: Aeronautics, Highway
Transportation, Mass Transportation, Transportation Planning,
Administration and the Equipment Service Center."
Doesn't sound to me like they make laws.
Smitty Two
"Steve B" <pittma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Then humans enter the equation, and, well, you know humans.
Yep. Unpredictable at best. OP or the neighbor is gonna be shooting at a
squirrel for dinner or a rat to dispatch it, just after dusk. Oh, shit,
I forgot about those gas cans ...
Steve B
"chaniarts" <chan...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:i2adq3$67g$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
When I went to ask about this, they said that if it was less than 125, it
could be put right next to the house. After that, if depended on the size
as to how far it had to be away from the house. It all depends on your
local code, anyway.
Steve B
"Smitty Two" <prest...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:prestwhich-3AA9A...@news.eternal-september.org...
But how can that be? We've seen expert testimony from several individuals
here that it would be an impossibility.
I'm confused ..........
Steve ;-)
Evan
> In article <i2a71h$9g...@speranza.aioe.org>,
Absolutely... The make administrative laws which govern how your
car has to be inspected and what items must be inspected to get
your sticker... Also how the roadways and railways under their
jurisdiction are used... Lots of things are covered under
administrative
law...
~~ Evan
HeyBub
You can bet there's such a law and ignorance of its provisions will not be
an excuse
Conductor's lament:
"I don't run the engine,
I don't ring the bell,
But if this train jumps the tracks,
Guess who catches hell!"
mkir...@rochester.rr.com
Address.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:37:35 -0700 (PDT), mkirs...@rochester.rr.com wrote:
> > Of course, unless you load up ten 5-gallon jugs with gas and stack
> > them in the back of the minivan with the kids, in front of a cop,
> > Unless you ADVERTISE that you're doing something illegal, nobody is
> > going to know you're doing something illegal...
>
> But how do you get the clandestine 5 five gallon gas cans into the trunk at
> the gas station without anyone seeing you?
That's not illegal, dumbass. Pay attention.
Gas must be transported in an open vehicle (i.e. pickup truck bed), or
in an enclosed area separate from the passenger compartment (i.e. a
car trunk).
It is illegal to haul gas in a vehicle that does NOT have a
compartment separate from the passengers. Vehicles like a minivan, or
SUV, or station wagon.
Jim Yanik
3AA9A9.193...@news.eternal-september.org:
Outdoor cans are subject to rusting.
if they leak,they pollute the ground water.
I doubt a copper/lead bullet piercing a gas can would ignite one.
(anyone care to experiment for the group? 8-) )
Besides,hunters should not be shooting near residences.
(yes,I said "should",and many don't do as they should)
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
Bill Murphy
> It is illegal to haul gas in a vehicle that does NOT have a
> compartment separate from the passengers. Vehicles like a minivan, or
> SUV, or station wagon.
Laws differ by state. I'm just trying to find the details of "that law" you
quote.
Just as leaving your vehicle for the purpose of refueling is illegal in
some states (NJ for example); or placing anything, like a GPS, on your
windshield is illegal in some states (California, for example); and having
your OBDII DTC codes scanned for free by the auto parts stores is illegal
in some states (Hawaii, for example); and using a radar detector is illegal
in some states (Virginia?) ... gasoline temporary storage and
transportation laws are certain to differ in various states.
Isn't there a single California lawyer on the USENET?
Can anyone find a California law that regulates the storage and
transportation of 5-gallon jugs of gasoline for personal use?
Bill Murphy
> I doubt a copper/lead bullet piercing a gas can would ignite one.
> (anyone care to experiment for the group? 8-) )
http://mythbustersresults.com/episode15
If a bullet is shot through the fuel tank of a car, it will explode.
busted
The gas tank did not explode.
(This myth was revisited in episode 38 and it was found to be plausible if
the tank is shot with a tracer round.)
http://mythbustersresults.com/episode38
REVISITED: A gas tank will explode when shot by a bullet. (From Episode 15)
busted
It has already been proven that when shot by a normal bullet a gasoline
tank will not explode. However, if a gasoline tank is shot by a tracer
round from a great enough distance so that the round can ignite with air
friction, it will cause the gasoline to catch fire. By the time this
happened the tank was so riddled with bullets (from previous tracers that
were fired too close to ignite) that there was no contained pressure, but
the MythBusters surmised that had the tank been properly enclosed, it may
have exploded; but overall it remains extremely improbable.
Bill Murphy
> "It is ILLEGAL to transport more than 15 gallons or 125 pounds of
> hazardous waste in your personal vehicle."
Stating a law without a reference isn't useful in this particular case.
While I'm sure waste contaminated gasoline would be considered a hazardous
waste (and a flammable liquid at the same time), I doubt usable gasoline is
considered hazardous waste, per se, in most states.
But you never know. For example, it's illegal in California to use brass
plumbing that has ANY lead in it (yet all other 49 states seem to have no
problem with that).
As another example, it's illegal in California to use chlorinated brake
cleaners; while almost ever other state has no problem with that.
My point is that laws clearly vary by state:
- It's illegal in some states to get out of your car to refuel or pay
- It's illegal in some states to put a GPS in the middle of the windshield
- It's illegal in some states to use a radar detector
- It's illegal in some states to get your OBDII DTC codes scanned for free
etc.
Since laws involving storage and transportation of gasoline are almost
certain to vary among the states, a specific California law is what I'm
looking for (since I live in California). I'll keep looking for the text of
the law but I was hoping there was a single lawyer on this forum who might
tell us how to find the text of the law.
Bill Murphy
> most, if not all, local and state statutes are on the internet.
> He could Google it. May take some time.
I posted a few references for California legal search sites.
None contained ANY California law regarding the transportation and storage
of 5-gallon jugs of gasoline for personal use.
Many contained transportation of 120 gallons or more; and OSHA sites
contained regulations for the work place; but so far, nobody on this planet
can cite a specific California law that regulates the storage or
transportation of 20-gallons worth of gasoline in the state of California.
Bill Murphy
> The site lists no details. Was the tank full, or almost empty for the
> test? What was the ambient temperature?
Details would have been in the MythBusters show itself. I'm sure a YouTube
exerpt might exist if you need those details.
The point is, the suggestion that a "hunter's round" will accidentally
explode plastic gas cans sitting outside is so highly unlikely, maybe even
impossible, as to not be a reasonable fear.
Gasoline is very dangerous. We all know that. A leak is not good, for
example. But we manage that danger every single day (almost all of us keep
about 40 gallons in the garage every night, for example).
To date, nobody on this planet (not even me, after extensive searches
already listed) can reference a single California law that regulates the
home storage and vehicle transporation of five gallon jugs of gasoline in a
car trunk.