On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 06:44:01 -0000 (UTC), Leon Schneider
<
Schnei...@zeendo.net> wrote:
>
cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote on Thu, 08 Dec 2016 00:46:06 -0500:
>
>> Trust me, painting your car is a lot harder than it looks -
>> particularly to do a decent job "at home"
>
>Fair enough assessment.
>
>> Replacing and balancing tires requires either reasonable equipment
>
>Harbor Freight has everything you need, for under $200 overall.
>Out here, that's about 10 tires to break even on the tools.
>But the best thing is that you get the job done right when you do it
>yourself, because I have NEVER seen a tire-changing job done correctly yet
>at the tire shops. Not once.
Well, I'll respectfully dissagree. There is NO WAY you can
"dynamically" ballance a tire on a $200 Harbour Fright ballancer. All
you can do is static balance it - which might be ok on an old 4x4 or a
Yugo. Balancing the tire from the inside to outside, or quadrant to
quadrant is REQUIRED for a good high speed balance.
I've had cars where 1/4 ounce of dynamic inbalance caused a tire
shimmy on a customer's car (admittedly at well over the legal speed
limit.) Can't get that fine with a bubble balancer.
>
>> Alignment is another story - not hard to measure and adjust toe. Not
>> terribly hard to check camber, but measuring caster requires special
>> tools.
>
>Depends on the vehicle, but my sedan only has adjustments for rear camber
>and front-and-back toe, so, for me, that's all I'd need to measure.
It's what you CAN'T adjust that you need to measure!!! If parts are
worn or bent, you don't know unless you can measure.
>
>> Alignments on today's vehicles really only need to be done if the
>> vehicle is damaged. or parts are replaced. They don't "go out of
>> alignment" unless something bends or wears.
>
>I'm not so sure of that, because any good pothole can knock something off
>alignment but I can't argue the issue becuase I don't really know. I just
>know that I've seen it recommended to get the suspension aligned with each
>new set of tires (which is about every two years).
A good pothole can BEND things. Adjustments can compensate for some
of that damage.
>
>> And if you cannot measure the caster and camber you don't know if
>> there is anything wrong - but your tires wear and the car pulls to the
>> left or right. You can't tell if the car is tracking properly or if it
>> has a bent or twisted uni-body or sub frame.
>
>As you stated, if you have owned the car, then you know pretty much only
>have to deal with alignment drifting out of whack over time so a check of
>only toe and camber will do for cars, such as mine, that have no other
>adjustments anyway.
If you own the car and hit a bad pothole YOU can knock the caster
out. If YOU own the car and slide into a curb, you can tweak the
uni-body, knocking the track out. You can do all kinds of things tht
CAN change the alignment parrameters you cannot measure - and just
because they are not "adjustable" doesn't mean they are not important,
or that they cannot be fixed.
I KNOW. I did that stuff for a living for over twenty years. There are
many ways to correct "non-adjustable" adjustments.
>
>However, if you're buying a car, then by all means, have the tracking,
>steering axis inclination, ride height, etc., all checked at an alighment
>shop who has the tools to measure anything and everything.
>
>But at home, my hypothesis is that only camber and toe need to be measured
>for my car (and many others) since that's all you can adjust anyway.
>
>Both can be measured with home tools to reasonable accuracy (is my
>hypothesis); but I haven't tried it myself yet.
>
>> And not always terribly accurately - and you still need to know the
>> car is sitting level to start with -
>
>Fair enough that you need a level garage (or you need to level the car by
>using linoleum tiles under the wheels). And you have to set the vehicle
>ride height (which, for my car, requires about 500 pounds of weight).
>
>But all of that is doable in a home garage.
>
>> What do you need that for? The inner edge of the rim or the outer
>> edge of the rim works just as well, if not better than the "center of
>> the tread" and is how real alignment equipment works - and it checks
>> to make sure the rim is "true" and compensates if it is not - - -
>
>This is a good point. I have always done my toe to the centerpoint line
>scribed on both tires, especially when it's to the centerpoint of the
>underside of the vehicle - but - to your point - any reference measurement
>can be used.
No, not just ANY reference. Any ACCURATE refference. The car isn't a
Bimmer by chance????
>
>To my point, it's just a measurement of distance, and it doesn't have to be
>to the ten thousandths of an inch - so it just has to be a decently good
>measurement, which is certainly doable in a home garage.
>
It needs to be accurate to within .01 degrees on many cars. That is
pretty "granular"
>The problem I have run into most is that you can't get a straight string
>across the underside of the car becuase of protruding stuff but that's why
>a C-shaped jig would work for that.
Boy, you are sounding an awfull lot like the guy asking about using
his cell phone to align his Bimmer.
>> Only less than 1 in 1000 people is "capable" of doing a proper
>> alignment without proper equipment - and only about 1 in 4 (being
>> charitable here) mechanics can do it WITH the proper equipment.
>
>I think aproximately zero cars are aligned correctly, based only on my
>experience with my car at "normal" alignement shops. So, again, if you want
>your car's alignment to be done right, you often have to do it yourself
>(or, in my case, you have to bring your own weights to the shop!).
You have absolutely ZERO chance of aligning your car anywhere NEAR as
close to correct as even the worst alignment shop - and I can assure
you EVERY car that left my shop after an alignment WAS properly
aligned. Every one that left my brother's alignment rack was also
properly aligned. Every one road trested after the alignment as well.
And exactly what weights are you bringing yo the "alignment shop"?
>
>> That's my story - and I'm sticking to IT. As a former mechanic and
>> former service manager and shop foreman who has had a few very good
>> front end men, and a lot more who would starve to death doing it flat
>> rate and choke on their come-backs.
>>
>> You are obviously a lot less fussy than the average customer.
>
>Heh heh ... I'm the shop's worst nightmare.
>The reason is that I WATCH what they do.
>
>I have NEVER in my entire life, for example, seen a tire installed corretly
>at a tire shop. Not once. I can give you a littany of errors that they
>make, and they have thrice given me the job for free because I had to
>complain to their management.
You are the kind of customer that I would "fire" by the second time
you came into the shop. If you don't trust your mechanic, get the hell
out and stay out.
You think you are smarter than everyone else - and you are a cheap=ass
on top of it all.
What do YOU do for a living????
Like I told a doctor customer of mine who bitched because it took 2
tries to fix an intermittent problem on his expensive car - I
guarantee my work and fix my mistakes - you just bury yours. That shut
the wize-ass up!!.
>
>Never once have I seen a shop do my model of vehicle properly for alignment
>either.
>
>In both cases (alignment and tires), if you want it done right, then you
>have to do it yourself. So, while I do very much respect your advice and
>judgement, the one thing I have to tell you is that I'm fussy as hell when
>I'm paying someone else to do THEIR job right (and no mechanic ever does).
And YOU are going to do it right without the equipment and ebven the
knowlege of how to do it?? And I don't mean watching You-tube videos.
Your disrespect of my first chosen profession is duly noted - and one
reason many GOOD mechanics have left the business - leaving guys like
you to fend for yourself. I took enough abuse in just under 25 years
to do me for the rest of my life. -which is why I'll soon be retiring
from my "second chosen profession" after 27 years