How does the cigarette lighter know when to "pop out?"
Al Gershen
I recently changed the wiring on my 1985 Cadillac Cimaron's cigarette
lighter so that the ground side of the electric fan solenoid is
grounded when I push the cigarette light in; and hense, the fan turns
on. (There are some other problems with the circuitry related to the
electric fan that prevent it for working normally.)
With the wiring the way it is, there's very low voltage applied thru
the cigarette light so it no longer gets hot but it makes a good
ground connection (like an off/on switch) and runs the radiator fan.
The above described mod seemed to work fine for a few days but all of
a sudden, when I push the cigarette light in, it pops out immediately.
To turn the fan on, I had to hold the lighter in; not a very
convenient way to cool the car when the weather is warm here in
southern Oregon.
What is causing the cigarette ligter to behave in this manner?
I took the lighter and plugged it into my other car (1995 Pontiac
Grand Prix) and it stays in and works fine there.
I took the lighter from the Pontiac and plugged it into the Cimarron
and it stays in and turns on the fan motor.
Is this an X-files matter? I look forward to your suggestions.
Regards,
Al Gershen
Grants Pass, OR
gas...@hotmail.com
Bob
couldn't you at least spend the 99 cents to buy a damn toggle switch?
Hooking the fan to the cig lighter has to be one of the dumbest things I've
heard in quite a while!
Bob
"Al Gershen" <gas...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fc2cd041.04050...@posting.google.com...
Don Bruder
gas...@hotmail.com (Al Gershen) wrote:
> Hi group:
>
> I recently changed the wiring on my 1985 Cadillac Cimaron's cigarette
> lighter so that the ground side of the electric fan solenoid is
> grounded when I push the cigarette light in; and hense, the fan turns
> on. (There are some other problems with the circuitry related to the
> electric fan that prevent it for working normally.)
>
> With the wiring the way it is, there's very low voltage applied thru
> the cigarette light so it no longer gets hot but it makes a good
> ground connection (like an off/on switch) and runs the radiator fan.
Actually, it makes an absolutely LOUSY ground connection if you've got
it wired so that the juice is going to ground through the heating
element of the lighter. No, I take that back - It makes a *HIDEOUSLY*
lousy ground.
> The above described mod seemed to work fine for a few days but all of
> a sudden, when I push the cigarette light in, it pops out immediately.
> To turn the fan on, I had to hold the lighter in; not a very
> convenient way to cool the car when the weather is warm here in
> southern Oregon.
>
> What is causing the cigarette ligter to behave in this manner?
>
> I took the lighter and plugged it into my other car (1995 Pontiac
> Grand Prix) and it stays in and works fine there.
>
> I took the lighter from the Pontiac and plugged it into the Cimarron
> and it stays in and turns on the fan motor.
>
> Is this an X-files matter? I look forward to your suggestions.
>
> Regards,
> Al Gershen
> Grants Pass, OR
> gas...@hotmail.com
The lighter pops out when it gets hot. The outer ring is a springy
material that loses some of its spring as it warms, releasing its
friction-grip on the hole it's plugged into. Eventually, it releases
enough so that the tension you put on the spring inside the part you
pull out (usually invisible, but it is there, hiding under everything
else) overcomes what little "grip" is left, and out pops the lighter.
If you've grounded a heavy load (and the heater motor is one of the
heaviest electrical loads that exist on a car) to the shell, it's *VERY*
possible that the juice now going to ground there is producing enough
heat to pop the lighter. If you've been running it this way for anything
more than a few minutes, the possibility also exists that you've
"cooked" the retaining gizmo on the lighter enough that it's "forgotten"
that it's supposed to be a springy object.
Strongly advise that you find *SOMEPLACE ELSE* to ground the blower.
Just about anything metal that's also solidly attached to the chassis
with metal will work just fine.
--
Don Bruder - dak...@sonic.net - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
I respond to Email as quick as humanly possible. If you Email me and get no
response, see <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html> Short
form: I'm trashing EVERYTHING that doesn't contain a password in the subject.
is not my real address@.com Steve B.
>Hi group:
>
>I recently changed the wiring on my 1985 Cadillac Cimaron's cigarette
>lighter so that the ground side of the electric fan solenoid is
>grounded when I push the cigarette light in; and hense, the fan turns
>on. (There are some other problems with the circuitry related to the
>electric fan that prevent it for working normally.)
Dang Dude.. I know times are hard for a lot of folks out there but
surely you can scrape together a buck for a switch! A cigarette
lighter does not make a good switch. You going to end up burning out
a hundred dollar fan motor to save a buck.
Steve B.
Brent P
> I recently changed the wiring on my 1985 Cadillac Cimaron's cigarette
> lighter so that the ground side of the electric fan solenoid is
> grounded when I push the cigarette light in; and hense, the fan turns
> on. (There are some other problems with the circuitry related to the
> electric fan that prevent it for working normally.)
Why not just get a switch? If it's the resistor wire block for the
fan, just get some new resistor wire if it's too much to replace the
block. Or just solder the broken resistor wire together for a little
more life.
HLS
as a theft deterrent.
The modified cigarette lighter was rigged in series with the wire to the
fuel pump. When you leave the car, put it in your pocket.
A switch would have done as well, but might have been a bit easier to spot.
Chas Hurst
"HLS" <larr...@tellcon.net> wrote in message
news:109e6it...@corp.supernews.com...
And when the lighter is misplaced?
"Doc"
"Bob" <b...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:109betj...@corp.supernews.com...
> If you must cobble something together instead of repairing it correctly
> couldn't you at least spend the 99 cents to buy a damn toggle switch?
> Hooking the fan to the cig lighter has to be one of the dumbest things
I've
> heard in quite a while!
> Bob
Man, this has GOT to be a troll. No one is THAT stupid.
Doc
Anumber1
I didn't even take the lighter with me. NOBODY was gonna figure that out in
the heat of a felony!
--
Alan Gallacher
Born to Tinker!
"HLS" <larr...@tellcon.net> wrote in message
news:109e6it...@corp.supernews.com...
Nate Nagel
> "Bob" <b...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:109betj...@corp.supernews.com...
> > If you must cobble something together instead of repairing it correctly
> > couldn't you at least spend the 99 cents to buy a damn toggle switch?
> > Hooking the fan to the cig lighter has to be one of the dumbest things
> I've
> > heard in quite a while!
> > Bob
>
> Man, this has GOT to be a troll. No one is THAT stupid.
>
> Doc
Every time I find myself saying that, I end up being proven wrong
eventually. Someone, somewhere *is* just that stupid.
nate
t_puls
If you look at what Ohms Law says you will see that the lighter introduces
resistance into the fan circuit. That means that the fan motor is running on
a reduced voltage. Over time the fan motor winding will run hot and the
motor will rapidly age and fail. A failing motor will draw more current
which in turn might be whay the cigarette lighter is not beginning to pop
out. At this point it sounds like the lighter is acting like a circuit
breaker for the fan. While I cannot tell for sure that this is happening
without taking amperage measurments on the fan motor, I can tell you that
this arrangement is not your best option as others may have already
mentioned. Your best bet is to use a good old fashioned toggle switch from
Radio Shack or Home Depot.
Tim
t_puls
have a shortened life because the lighter will limit the voltage reaching it
and make it run hotter, thus fail sooner. If you like the stealthy look of
the lighter for a switch, I would suggest that you at least solder a wire
across the heating element in the lighter so that there is a direct
connection to pass power to the fuel pump. This is assuming that the lighter
has been modified where either the ground or the hot wire has been removed
and the fuel pump power leads re-routed to the lighter for use as a switch.
If that isn't the case then that jumper will make a mess of your electrical
system. I figure anyone that has enough knowledge to attempt rewiring this
way, would understand what I mean.
Tim
"Anumber1" <anumber1@*NOSPAM*bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:109f1us...@corp.supernews.com...
Larry Smith
news:RjPlc.226$cb....@bignews1.bellsouth.net
> It "sounds" like a good idea, but you will find that your fuel pump will
> have a shortened life because the lighter will limit the voltage reaching it
> and make it run hotter, thus fail sooner. If you like the stealthy look of
> the lighter for a switch, I would suggest that you at least solder a wire
> across the heating element in the lighter so that there is a direct
> connection to pass power to the fuel pump.
This was the 'modified' disclaimer I referred to in my post. The
cigarette lighter becomes a 'dummy'. You gut it, disable the resistance
coil. The old +12 and ground are removed, and the fuel pump wiring is
rerouted to this.
The first time I ever saw this was in the old Fiero Club. Fiero's were
stolen like crazy here in Houston, for the seats. Seats were fenced to
junkyards, which then sold them back to the insurance companies. Those
damn seats cost about $1800. It was a vicious circle.
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Daniel J. Stern
On Tue, 4 May 2004, t_puls wrote:
> It "sounds" like a good idea, but you will find that your fuel pump will
> have a shortened life because the lighter will limit the voltage reaching it
> and make it run hotter, thus fail sooner.
THough I agree his cigarette lighter switch is dumb, it's not for this
reason. He said he's triggering the fuel pump *relay* with the lighter.
Tim Brown
Stick a screwdriver or other metal object in to make the connection.
Tim
HLS
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.04...@alumni.engin.umich.edu
The cigarette lighter switch was both dumb and ingenious. It required
the modifications to the lighter and rerouting of the fuel pump control
wires. It seemed to make sense in 1984 when this was happening.
After my Fiero was stolen, I just started taking the fuel pump fuse
out if I were in an unsafe area.
Apparently we didn't have have the emphasis on good antitheft devices
in those days. The feeling was that a good car thief could disable most
of them within seconds. Rigging the electrics stopped some of them.
Some of these guys could take an engine out of a car and be gone in
just a few minutes. One or two of them went to Jesus while doing it,
too.
Al Gershen
Brent P., HLS, Chas Hurst, Tim Brown, Anumber1, t_puls, Larry Smith,
and Daniel J. Stern:
I was amused and educated with all your comments. (I forgot about the
posting so this is why my reply is so late.)
I showed some of your replies to my wife and she said, "So what! :-)
The fan works fine when the cigarette lighter is pressed in."
Let me advise you that the cigarete lighter is used to ground the
electric fan solenoid input circuit. It does not connect directly to
the electric fan motor circuit on the output side of the solenoid.
What this means is that when the current runs thru the solenoid, most
of the voltage drops across the solenoid so that the voltage remaining
at the high side of the cigarette ligher is probably nil. The current
that flows thru the cigarette lighter is apparently small (just a few
amps) and I notice that the lighter element does not heat up at all
when the lighter is pushed in.
What I believe this all means is that when a low voltage is applies
across the cigarette lighter, it behaves almost like a ground toggle
switch.
My original posting really had nothing to do with the merits of this
wiring change but was questioning....what causes the cigarette lighter
to pop out?
When I used the car's original cigarette lighter, it worked for a few
days and then it wouldn't stay in at all when it was pushed in. At no
point did it heat up!
When I use another cigaratte lighter from my wife's car, it seems to
work fine in my car. But what's really strange is that if I use my
lighter in my wife's car, it work fine there.
Neither of us smoke and we allow no smoking in the car by passengers
so both lighters really get no usage in our cars.
I look forward to reading some more comments on this matter.
I'm not a troll and I don't consider myself stupid. I have a
background in electronics (I used to repair electronic products at a
TV repair shop in southern California).
Respectfully sumitted,
Al Gershen
Grants Pass, OR
gas...@hotmail.com
(Submitted thru google.com on May 20, 2004 at apx. 8:14 pm pdt.)
Al Haunts
>
>My original posting really had nothing to do with the merits of this
>wiring change but was questioning....what causes the cigarette lighter
>to pop out?
When the lighter element in pushed in, the clamp holds it in that
position & supplies voltage to the element. The element gets hot
which also heats the bi-metal clamp and causes it to relax its grip.
This breaks the electrical path and allows the now glowing element to
pop-out under spring pressure. I assume you understand the properties
of a bi-metal assembly. If not, we can talk some more......
Regards, Al.