SplitFire Spark Plugs
John Horner
the end. Not worth using in 99% of cases.
John Wolf
|> Again?? sheez, this ought to be on an FAQ.
|>
|> Most posts seem to indicate that they are a waste of money. This is my
|> experience too.
|> I have had them open circuit at the RFI suppression resistor. This is
|> bad. Regular or premium/platinum plugs of the correct heat range are best.
|>
|> SL6 Dan
I have to agree. Tuned up my Grand Am this weekend an screwed in some
Bosch Platnums ($2/each) - what a differnece. Much smoother idle and
cleaner and more consistent power (acceleration).
John
Michael W. O'Neal
I have an older motorhome and a boat that I was considering installing them in
until I saw the prices ($5-6/plug).
Any info would be appreciated.
Thanx in advance
Mike
Daniel J. Stern
Prithvi Rao
> Has anyone had any experience with Splitfire Spark Plugs?
I have a '91 Prelude and about 2 months ago I decided to check the spark
plug gaps (my car seemed to be a little sluggish going up hills) and
noticed that the original plugs (I have 26k miles) were nowhere close to
the proper gap. At that time rather than adjusting the gap or getting
conventional plugs I decided to get splitfire plugs.
My evaluation over a two month period is that my car is using less gas
and has more power. So, when I fill up on gas at the same mileage (400
mile mark) I am spending about $1:20 less on gas (at each fill) and I
always go to the same gas station around the corner from where I live
and the gas price has varied by at most 1 cent over the last two months.
Also, my car feels like I just drove it out of the showrroom. It seems
to have more power, it idles like when it was new and it runs much more
quietly. However I will probably have to wait till the car has done
close to 10000 more miles or so before I can make a direct comparison to
the old plugs.
So the above are my observations, and the following is my opinion. I
would have no hesitation in using splitfire spark plugs as long as they
are rated correctly for your car. I think the cost is trivial compared
to the gains in terms of complete combustion, savings on gas over the
long term and generally a better running car. I have neither
read/heard/spoken to anyone who uses these plugs say anything really bad
about their use.
I hope this helps!
_prithvi
Disclaimer: I do not have any vested interest in promoting the use of
these plugs.
Daniel J. Stern
spent needless money on gimic plugs. Any correct plugs would have
accomplished the same thing.
Hopelessly Sarcastic
This is not true in the absolute sense. Certain high performance spark
plugs do add power to your car. I've compared using regular plugs
versus splitfires and, again, with NGK racing plugs. With
Splitfire, the improved performance is negligible. However, with
NGKs, it outperform the other two plugs mentioned. I know this for
a fact because I get better gas mileage with NGK plugs. Not only
this, but I also seem to get higher RPMs.
These are just some of the advantages of using a high performance
spark plug like NGK.
= f r e d =
--
a racer who accidentally typed "rn"
Mark Shaw
|> In article (Daniel J. Stern) writes:
|> >your car runs like new because you changed the plugs, not because you
|> >spent needless money on gimic plugs. Any correct plugs would have
|> >accomplished the same thing.
|>
|> This is not true in the absolute sense. Certain high performance spark
I agree with Dan, pick the right plug, period. What usually happens
when people crossover to a different plug design is that they usually
also end up in a different heat range, different reach, possibly
different resistance and sometimes a different gap. All of which
affect performance of the plug over temp and pressure.
Bosch has an excellent set of chapters on plugs, ignition, and their
selection in their "Automotive Electric/Electronic Systems" and I think
it is also available as a technical bulletin.
I have also had the opportunity to hear several papers and discuss
ignition systems with reasearchers on the topic of HEI; and the general
concensus is less than skeptical about "magic" differences in plugs
and some ignition systems frills.
Like Dan said, most of the time I think we are merely fixing a problem
when we make a change, rather than actually improving anything.
Mark
Andrew Bajorinas
>Thanx in advance
>Mike
Consensus is that they don't help much (if at all) and that they fould faster
than normal plugs.
If this small of an investment could _really_ offer a 5% gain then every
racing team in the world would use them. 5% is a HUGE gain to a racer! Racers
just don;t seem to use them (unless they are spnsered by them).
Save your money. Buy a decent brand normal plug.
PS: Most anecdotal evidence where people say "I felt the difference" fail to
take in to account that they were replacing dirty old normal plugs with shiny
new splitfires. Most people would feel the difference between dirty and clean
plugs even if they were otherwise identical.
==========================================================================
== The above opinions are my own. My employer thinks I am working. 8^) ==
== ==
== Andrew P. Bajorinas bajo...@perkin-elmer.com ==
== Perkin-Elmer Corp, Norwalk, CT ==
==========================================================================
== If evolution is outlawed | Never underestimate the power ==
== only outlaws will evolve! | of the internet Luke. -O W Kenobi- ==
==========================================================================
Eric Barna
>From: Bajo...@Perkin-Elmer.com (Andrew Bajorinas)
>Subject: Re: SplitFire Spark Plugs
>Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 19:48:35 GMT
>In article <moneal.56...@primenet.com> mon...@primenet.com (Michael W.
>O'Neal) writes:
>>Has anyone had any experience with the SplitFire Spark Plugs?
>>I have an older motorhome and a boat that I was considering installing them in
>>until I saw the prices ($5-6/plug).
>>Any info would be appreciated.
>>Thanx in advance
>>Mike
>Consensus is that they don't help much (if at all) and that they fould faster
>than normal plugs.
>If this small of an investment could _really_ offer a 5% gain then every
>racing team in the world would use them. 5% is a HUGE gain to a racer! Racers
>just don;t seem to use them (unless they are spnsered by them).
>Save your money. Buy a decent brand normal plug.
>PS: Most anecdotal evidence where people say "I felt the difference" fail to
>take in to account that they were replacing dirty old normal plugs with shiny
>new splitfires. Most people would feel the difference between dirty and clean
>plugs even if they were otherwise identical.
Not to fuel the fire any, but here is a little information on Split-Fire plugs
I found on Split-Fires from "Mustang Illustrated", August 1990 edition:
Background:
1. Designed by Dr. Maston Forkum Jr. in the early '70s, while conducting
experiments on making his lawnmower engine fire more efficiently.
2. With the assistance of Dr. Robert Sears, Chairman of the Phhysics
Department at Austin Peavy U., they demonstrated the superiority of the V-Tip
design. Since the split electrode provides more spark surface area, the
Split-Fire is able to fire multiple sparks in random pattern rather than a
single spark.
3. Dr. Forkum founded MHC Company and produced the plugs on a limited basis,
the patent was aquired by Energy Performance and has patented the Split-Fire
name.
The Claims:
1. The Split-Fire provides a superior fire when used with computerized FI
systems.
2. In older-cars the plugs can significantly reduce emissions (due to fire
power).
3. Horsepower is also reported to increase
As far as testing in racing engines...
1. Paul Rossi (Firestone Firehawk Eagle Talons)
2. Doug Rippie (Escort Series Corvettes)
Rippie's Corvettes produced 10 more ft.lbs. of torque (= ~6.1HP)
3. Chris Kaufman (Showroom Stock racer)
After running the plugs for a season, Kaufmann reported an increase of 5-9
HP with a significant reduction in fuel consumption.
The magazine also ran a test on a bone-stock 1989 Mustang GT 26,000mi and
replaced the Motorcraft plugs with Split Fires. The hydrocarbon levels were
reduced by over 50%. Although the Mustang would have reduced hydrocarbon
levels by installing new Motorcraft plugs, I doubt it would be 50%.
I installed a set in my Ford Lightning. Unofficially, I get more mid-range
power and better MPG. If you want exact figures, please wait until I've run
the plugs awhile to get a good average on the MPG. You'll have to wait 'till I
can get to the track for the increase in my ET. If you want to try Split-Fires
in a latter model car equipped with a computer controlled engine, I suggest
that you disconnect the positive battery cable, so that the computer can
re-learn the engine patterns. Don't want to start "They work-they don't work"
thread, these are just some experiences based on actual use.
-eric--
'93 Lightning
Nathan E. Heid
I've tried Splitfire also and they seem to help my highway gas
milage and idling smoothness, but then again that new wax/polish
I use makes my truck seem faster.
John Horner
you noted when replacing plugs with 26,000 miles on them. It
seems that many of the testimonials for SplitFires come from
people who replaced old worn out plugs with new SplitFires and
felt an improvement.
By the way, nothing about a SplitFire makes it last any longer
than a conventional plug. They are built by Autolite and are
just a $.99 spark plug with a gimmick.
John Horner
you mean, higher RPMs for a given accelerator position (if so,
how did you measure it?).
NGK makes a good quality product, but there isn't anything very
special about them. NGK is a major OEM supplier in Japan, Bosch
has most of Europe, and Champion, AC and Autolite are major
makers here in the US. None of them have a dramatic
technological advantage over the others.
Daniel J. Stern
SL6 Dan
erle eikman
: Mike O'Neal writes:
: My evaluation over a two month period is that my car is using less gas
: and has more power. So, when I fill up on gas at the same mileage (400
: mile mark) I am spending about $1:20 less on gas (at each fill) and I
: always go to the same gas station around the corner from where I live
: and the gas price has varied by at most 1 cent over the last two months.
I have tried a number of different plug designs a have learned
to approach "new" designs with an objective point of view.
1) A spark must be present to ignite fuel/air mixture.
placement of plug and proper spark timing/advance
is determined by the design engineers.
The important idea to remember is the spark must
occur every time even under adverse conditions such as:
a)Fouling from an overly rich mixture or excessive oil use.
b)High compression engines.
The best solution to both problems has proven to be plugs
using precious metal electrodes to resist fouling and high
energy ignition systems that will punch through deposits
and still fire a highly compressed fuel/air mixture in
performance engines.
Providing multiple spark paths decrease the chance
that a fowled portion of the electrodes will prevent an
electical discharge has been used in aircraft for decades,
but they use dual magnetos and two plugs per cylinder anyway.
2) A plug must operate hot enough to burn away deposits yet
not sustain any physical damage.
You may want to question if enough thought has gone into this
all important design feature. Some engine designs are very
"picky" about heat range and some find that OEM plugs work
the best. "Happy" plugs have insulators that are light brown
around the center electrode.
Good luck.
Mike Serafin
: Has anyone had any experience with the SplitFire Spark Plugs?
Shoot, I don't even have these spark plug thingys you people keep talking
about, use the cheapest fuel I can find, and the engine runs like a champ,
produces 250+ hp, 400+ ft.lbs. torque and gets 15+ mpg.
Michael Liow
: > NGK makes a good quality product, but there isn't anything very
: > has most of Europe, and Champion, AC and Autolite are major
: > makers here in the US. None of them have a dramatic
: > technological advantage over the others.
I have used Splitfire plugs before. I am now using Nippon Denso ZU
platinum plugs. The latter offers a smoother ride up the rev-counter
and I have since discarded my Splitfires.
Michael Liow
Brad2dbone
Tests definitely show a difference when specialty plugs like
platinums/splitfire/etc.. are used, but it will show up on systems that
have weak ignition systems. When the "alternate" plug electrodes work,
they are actually decreasing the voltage required to jump the gap. If you
want the same performance upgrades, just put more spark to the thing.
Platinum plugs require a lot lower voltage threshold, so they won't cause
a cylinder to drop.
Mike Graham
PR>plug gaps (my car seemed to be a little sluggish going up hills) and
PR>noticed that the original plugs (I have 26k miles) were nowhere close to
PR>the proper gap. At that time rather than adjusting the gap or getting
PR>conventional plugs I decided to get splitfire plugs.
PR>My evaluation over a two month period is that my car is using less gas
PR>and has more power. So, when I fill up on gas at the same mileage (400
PR>mile mark) I am spending about $1:20 less on gas (at each fill) and I
PR>always go to the same gas station around the corner from where I live
PR>and the gas price has varied by at most 1 cent over the last two months.
You don't feel that *perhaps* the simple fact that you now have correctly
gapped plugs could be contributing to this blissful economy situation?
Splitfire and the rest are nothing special. You used to be able to
(probably still can) get plugs that had FOUR outer electrodes so that
it made FOUR sparks. Not just a mere two, like the splitfire. The
only problem is, they cost a lot of money, and don't do you any good.
You get four sparks, 1/4 as strong. Four times 1/4 = 1. Seeing these
messages is getting almost comical. "I had a total engine rebuild, and
they put in Splitfire plugs, and it drives like a new car! Wow!"
The only plugs that seem to *really* make a difference are platinum
plugs. They burn *way* hotter, and seem to really improve things.
I don't mean to irritate, here, I'm just trying to make a point. If
you had switched from properly-gapped, new regular sparkplugs to
properly-gapped Splitfires, made *no* other changes, and found an
economy increase, then I would be impressed.
Mike Graham
* SLMR 2.1 #T348 * Look out! DUCK!! No, no wait... it's only a goose.
Mark Whitmer
: Shoot, I don't even have these spark plug thingys you people keep talking
: about, use the cheapest fuel I can find, and the engine runs like a champ,
: produces 250+ hp, 400+ ft.lbs. torque and gets 15+ mpg.
Lemme guess... Diesel?
See ya'
Mark Whitmer
whit...@netcom.com
The Omega Concern
spark plug out there. It came new with NGK plugs which I've consistently
gone back to. The SplitFire plugs performed WORSE than every other plug,
and the Champion and Bosch Platinum wannabee plugs were almost as bad.
Now I use the NGK true platinum (not plated platinum like Bosch)
four-electrode spark plugs, gapped to almost 0.08" with a MSD 6 ignition
system. Once I got the MSD in the car, i swapped plugs a bunch of times,
with no changes in the test results, but the differences between plugs
were more noticable. The champion plugs and splitfire fouled instantly.
Then again, I put NGK plugs in my GM cars, matched to the heat range of
the OEM plugs in those cars, and I feel that the performance in those
cars went down. For some reason AC plugs work best in my Caprice and
Delta 88.
Now that I don't have the weekends to experiment with this kind of stuff
anymore, I use whatever brand plugs were OEMd with the car.
--
Kenneth Martin / IZCC #136
DECUS #328219
om...@pinn.net
David M Bloom
I'm not to sure about this but one of my mechanic friends had this to say
about split fires:
After a while some sort of deposit will build up on your spark
plugs and in split fires the first place the build up will occur is in
the gap that is supposed to split the spark. This will not only cause
the plug to act like a regular spark plug but worse because there less
surface area for the spark to jump to.
I really haven't tested this idea but it seemed like a pretty good
argument to me. That's the only bad thing I've heard about them. I
have other friends that run them in their cars and think they're great.
For me I don't like the Idea of spending $6 an spark plug untill they're
a little more proven than they are now. I just stick with my Bosch Platnums.
Well there's my $.02,
Dave
-Trust my I know what I'm doing.
Prithvi Rao
and put this issue to rest about the relative advantages of using
split-fire plugs! The point is that they have not been shown to do any
damage to cars (at leaast not that I know of) and it is probably one of
the simplest experiments one can carry out for themselves and at a cost
of $20. At worst you have invested $20 more on plugs that you might have
needed to replace anyway.
I agree that there are many other similar "enhancements" that can be
made to improve a car's performance but in my case I was very
disappointed in the plugs that were in my prelude and just decided to
try split-fires.
Oh by the way my last car was a Lancia with a racing cam and I went for
about 30 k miles without having to replace the plugs from about 60k
miles to 90 k miles. Anyway my point is that the splitfires may have not
done much for the Lancia. It had so much power/acceleration and gave me
pretty good gas mileage I never needed to address this issue.
_prithvi
Prithvi Rao
part of my message where I said that I wouldn't really be able to
evaluate them until I had done at least another 10000 miles.
Anyway all this does not matter. If if you got a good laugh by reading
the posting.....good for you. I was merely trying to give readers my
data point. Enjoy!
_prithvi
Steve Won
> The only plugs that seem to *really* make a difference are platinum
> plugs. They burn *way* hotter, and seem to really improve things.
>
> I don't mean to irritate, here, I'm just trying to make a point. If
> you had switched from properly-gapped, new regular sparkplugs to
> properly-gapped Splitfires, made *no* other changes, and found an
> economy increase, then I would be impressed.
I installed Bosch Platinum plugs into my 91 civic si when the original
(NGK?) plugs were still quite new (about 2 years ago). I did not notice any
improvement in power, fuel economy or ease of starting etc.
Only over the past summer I've noticed slight engine knocking at about
3000rpm under sudden full throttle. This IS detonation because when I use
higher octane fuel it doesn't happen.
I was wondering if the hotter running platinums may be causing the
preignition. Actually, I've had the plugs for about 2 years and from a
visual inspection they still are properly gapped and of good colour. But
it seems that the addition of a freer flowing Dynomax SuperTurbo muffler
(6 months ago!) has lead to some preignition. Well, I'll try replacing the
platinums and see if the knocking goes away. (no, I won't chuck the Dynomax
yet)
Has anyone else experienced preignition due to Bosch platinums and/or
sport mufflers??
Steve
--
MountainBiking motto: "You know you're having fun when things begin
hurting/breaking."
Car-tinkering motto: "Less weight means more performance!!!"
John D. Mooney
In article <moneal.56...@primenet.com>, mon...@primenet.com (Michael W. O'Neal) writes:
> Has anyone had any experience with the SplitFire Spark Plugs?
I put splitfires in my Sears 20" rear discharge mower and noticed a big
difference.... better cut quality, discharge velocity, and mileage.
I noticed the same effect with SLICK 50, Marvels mystery oil, and Duarlube
jd
;-)
--
John D Mooney
jdmo...@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Opinions expressed are MINE... NOT necessarily my employers.
Marty Bose
(Steve Won) wrote:
(snip)
> 3000rpm under sudden full throttle. This IS detonation because when I use
> higher octane fuel it doesn't happen.
> I was wondering if the hotter running platinums may be causing the
> preignition. Actually, I've had the plugs for about 2 years and from a
> visual inspection they still are properly gapped and of good colour. But
> it seems that the addition of a freer flowing Dynomax SuperTurbo muffler
> (6 months ago!) has lead to some preignition. Well, I'll try replacing the
> platinums and see if the knocking goes away. (no, I won't chuck the Dynomax
> yet)
> Has anyone else experienced preignition due to Bosch platinums and/or
> sport mufflers??
You're far more likely to be running slightly lean at the instant you
apply full throttle due to the exhaust system. At constant running
conditions the closed loop from the oxygen sensor would compensate for the
lower back pressure, but at WOT you're running off of a lookup table that
assumes a stock exhaust.
It would seem that your choices are either to run higher octane gas or see
if someone has a revised computer chip to compensate.
Marty
--
work: marty...@net.com please direct all flames to work
home: marty...@bdt.com account; the home one is on my $
Andrew Bajorinas
Sounds like placebo effect to me. It seems unlikely you would get noticebly
better mileage and "higher RPMs" from plugs alone. Most egines can reach their
redlines without much problem or trick plugs.
jason douglas
>SL6 Dan
If you really want a multi-electrode plug, you can get them from Bosch.
They've been making them for years and years, so the only innovation
"Split-Fire " has is in their marketing. The Bosch plugs can be found for
less than the splitfire, and Bosch quality is *excellent*. Splitfire quality
- ????.
I use the multi-conductor plugs myself. While I _think_ the car runs better,
the big reason for using them is that they are very durable.
Jason Douglas
Thomas Augustus Kimberly
>I have a '73 Datsun 240Z, and over the years I've tried just about every
>spark plug out there. It came new with NGK plugs which I've consistently
>gone back to. The SplitFire plugs performed WORSE than every other plug,
>and the Champion and Bosch Platinum wannabee plugs were almost as bad.
>
>Now I use the NGK true platinum (not plated platinum like Bosch)
>four-electrode spark plugs, gapped to almost 0.08" with a MSD 6 ignition
This isn't true, the Bosch plugs are solid platinum at least at the
electrode. It is a itsy-bitsy tiny contact that barely clears the ceramic
insulator. I use NGKs but only because they are the only good plugs that
I can get for my car at the local parts store without special ordering.
Where did you find four electrode plugs?
-tak
__T R__
||\ /||
|||I|||
\||I||/
TRIUMPH
--
<<"Let's get, to the point, let's roll, another joint. Let's head on down
the road, there's somewhere I gotta go."-Tom Petty>>
>|Thomas Kimberly...@prism.gatech.edu|< <<"It's better to die cool, than
to live uncool."-Harley Davidson & The Marlboro Man>>
Robert Cope
>I noticed the same effect with SLICK 50, Marvels mystery oil, and Duarlube
Hmm, I could be wrong.. but I think Marvels mystery oil is different that the
other two. Anyhow my dad swears that stuff unstuck a valve for him once upon
a time. Oh well my motor runs fine on Valvoline 20-50 Racing for now.. :)
robert
Steve Won
In a previous article, marty...@net.com (Marty Bose) says:
>In article <CyHqK...@freenet.carleton.ca>, bc...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
>(Steve Won) wrote:
>(snip)
>> Only over the past summer I've noticed slight engine knocking at about
>> 3000rpm under sudden full throttle. This IS detonation because when I use
>> higher octane fuel it doesn't happen.
>> I was wondering if the hotter running platinums may be causing the
>> preignition. Actually, I've had the plugs for about 2 years and from a
>> visual inspection they still are properly gapped and of good colour. But
>> it seems that the addition of a freer flowing Dynomax SuperTurbo muffler
>> (6 months ago!) has lead to some preignition. Well, I'll try replacing the
>> platinums and see if the knocking goes away. (no, I won't chuck the Dynomax
>> yet)
>> Has anyone else experienced preignition due to Bosch platinums and/or
>> sport mufflers??
>
>You're far more likely to be running slightly lean at the instant you
>apply full throttle due to the exhaust system. At constant running
>conditions the closed loop from the oxygen sensor would compensate for the
>lower back pressure, but at WOT you're running off of a lookup table that
>assumes a stock exhaust.
That's very interesting that the oxygen sensor wouldn't respond quickly
enough, and seems to make sense. But it also happens when passing through
3000rpm under full throttle, in gears 2-4. It's just more noticeable if I
stomp the gas at about 3000.
At any rate, with the colder weather now I haven't noticed it recently.
Mebbe I just need cooler plugs for the summer, and use these hotter Bosch
platinums for winter. :)
Steve
--
Mechanical Engineering, Queen's University. '94
Car tinkering: "Less weight means more performance!!!"
MTN Biking: "You know you're having fun when things begin to hurt/break."
Dick Brewster
: I installed Bosch Platinum plugs into my 91 civic si when the original
: (NGK?) plugs were still quite new (about 2 years ago). I did not notice any
: improvement in power, fuel economy or ease of starting etc.
: Only over the past summer I've noticed slight engine knocking at about
: 3000rpm under sudden full throttle. This IS detonation because when I use
: higher octane fuel it doesn't happen.
: I was wondering if the hotter running platinums may be causing the
: preignition. Actually, I've had the plugs for about 2 years and from a
: visual inspection they still are properly gapped and of good colour. But
: it seems that the addition of a freer flowing Dynomax SuperTurbo muffler
: (6 months ago!) has lead to some preignition. Well, I'll try replacing the
: platinums and see if the knocking goes away. (no, I won't chuck the Dynomax
: yet)
: Has anyone else experienced preignition due to Bosch platinums and/or
: sport mufflers??
It sounds like you need to change heat ranges. Platinum won't cause
preignition, it just makes the plugs last longer.
: Steve
: --
: MountainBiking motto: "You know you're having fun when things begin
: hurting/breaking."
: Car-tinkering motto: "Less weight means more performance!!!"
--
Dick Brewster dbre...@netcom.com
Harvey Grubbs
Just get a hold of a pair of wire cutters and split
the prong electrode on your regular plugs. Or, file
a split with a small file. Or, get a Dremel and cut
a slit in it.
I tested my idea on an old AC using the wire-cutter
method. It was tough going but I was able to put a
split in the ol' electrode.
Try it on an old plug and see what you think.
Splitfire also sells ignition wires. A set for my
6 cylinder was $79.xx I told the clerk I'd think
it over.
... Junk: Stuff we throw away. Stuff: Junk we keep.
---
. Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 .
Marty Bose
(Steve Won) wrote:
> In a previous article, marty...@net.com (Marty Bose) says:
> >You're far more likely to be running slightly lean at the instant you
> >apply full throttle due to the exhaust system. At constant running
> >conditions the closed loop from the oxygen sensor would compensate for the
> >lower back pressure, but at WOT you're running off of a lookup table that
> >assumes a stock exhaust.
>
> That's very interesting that the oxygen sensor wouldn't respond quickly
> enough, and seems to make sense. But it also happens when passing through
> 3000rpm under full throttle, in gears 2-4. It's just more noticeable if I
> stomp the gas at about 3000.
> At any rate, with the colder weather now I haven't noticed it recently.
> Mebbe I just need cooler plugs for the summer, and use these hotter Bosch
> platinums for winter. :)
It's not a question of the sensor reacting fast enough. The sensors only
have an extremely limited air/fuel ratio range (14.7 to 1, + or - 0.1
sticks in my mind for some reason), while acceleration requires something
closer to 10 or 12 to 1. Because of that, anytime you tromp on the
throttle the oxygen sensor output is ignored and the computer uses a fixed
map that is usually a RPM/throttle position = fuel flow sort of thing.
Many cars these days have got a restricted range they can use (I read a
while back that Mercedes in particular limits how rich the mixture can get
at WOT for emissions purposes), and the table assumes all of the variables
are the factory ones, including the relationship between WOT airflow and
exhaust backpressure.
Therefore, low restriction exhaust = greater air flow = leaner condition
than stock at WOT. Back off on the throttle to cruise condition, the
oxygen sensor comes back on line, and presto! you get 14.7 regardless of
any changes.
Hope this makes sense to you!
Humberto E Roa
: I have an older motorhome and a boat that I was considering installing them in
: until I saw the prices ($5-6/plug).
: Any info would be appreciated.
: Thanx in advance
: Mike
Mark Whitmer
: Splitfire also sells ignition wires. A set for my
: 6 cylinder was $79.xx I told the clerk I'd think
: it over.
I have sen commercials for these "dual-core" wires. They claim up to 15
times the performance of standard wires. Correct me if I'm wrong, but
wouldn't adding a second conductor simply reduce the resistance by LESS
than 50% (law of diminishing returns). ie. the second conductor would
provide at most twice the "performance" (if you can actually believe that
there is actually THAT much voltage drop in standard plug wires). The
bottom line: how the HELL can they claim 15x improvement simply by
doubleing the cross-sectional area of the copper in the wires?!
Paul Zeller
I have used Bosch Platinum plugs and noticed quicker starting and a 1MPG
increase plus the bosch are half the price of shit fire.
--
___ __
/ _ \___ ___ __/ / Paul
/ ___/ _ `/ // / / "The Mailing Mad Man"
/_/ \_,_/\_,_/_/ zel...@pegasus.montclair.edu
Daniel J. Stern
performance lost. Isn't it a sad commentary that there are people who
are ignorant enough and gullible enough to buy such bogus claims? Ah
well, you know what they say--be kind to dumb animals.
SL6 Dan
On Fri, 4 Nov 1994, Mark Whitmer wrote:
> I have seen commercials for these "dual-core" wires. They claim up to 15
Dean F. Utendorf
In a previous article, bc...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Steve Won) says:
>
>But they're platinum, so they should be super-resistant to erosion.
>
Are they pure platinum? I have seen many Bosch platinums where the
electrode was eroded far into the insulator nose producing less than
optimal spark.
--
===================================================================
HAKUNA MATATA!!
===================================================================
the deanster
Dave Williams
-> Hmm, I could be wrong.. but I think Marvels mystery oil is different
-> that the other two.
It is, despite the idiotic name. Marvel Mystery Oil is nothing more
than a high grade, thin (about 5wt) straight-cut oil. It's a good
multipurpose utility oil, though I don't have much use for it in
engines. Harley-Davidson recommends mixing 50wt and MMO 2:1 for easy
starting in cold weather; it is often used in general aviation, and it
is used in air tools when repackaged as "Marvel Air Tool Oil." Some
engine builders also use MMO as a honing and assembly oil.
Marc Sayer
> I have seen commercials for these "dual-core" wires. They claim up to 15
> times the performance of standard wires. Correct me if I'm wrong, but
> wouldn't adding a second conductor simply reduce the resistance by LESS
> than 50% (law of diminishing returns). ie. the second conductor would
> provide at most twice the "performance" (if you can actually believe that
> there is actually THAT much voltage drop in standard plug wires). The
> bottom line: how the HELL can they claim 15x improvement simply by
> doubleing the cross-sectional area of the copper in the wires?!
>
>
> See ya'
> Mark Whitmer
> whit...@netcom.com
>
>
The only way the wire will "carry" any more energy is do reduce the
resistance of the conductor. You can do this by changing the material the
conductor is made of (like going from carbon impregnated thread as is used
in most supression wire sets to spiral wrapped metal as is used in Jacobs,
MSD, NGK etc.). Or you can do it by increasing the size of the wire. Now
if all they are doing is taking the original wire and splitting the
conductor in two they aren't doing anything. If on the other hand they are
running two times as much conductor they would have done some good. The OD
of the plug wire itself would then need to be nearly twice as big in order
to get the same level of insulation etc., I would guess the wire would be
somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 to 12 mm in diameter as normal wire is
either 7 or 8 mm. The best conductor of energy is what's known as solid
core wire. The afore mentiond spiral wrap is a solid core wire in that the
conductor is a spiral wraped wire made of metal and is continuous from one
end to the other. The limit here then is the resistance of the metal used
which is determined by the conductivity of the alloy and the physical size
of the conductor. The other type of solid core wire is similar to regular
electrical wire in that it has a bunch of smaller copper strands twisted
together and surrounded by some sort of insulation. This sort of wire will
generally have the least resistance. It also generates the greatest radio
interferance and is not street legal. Due to the spiral wrap design of the
other solid core type it does not generate much radio interferacne at all.
So what's the bottom line? For race cars use the solid copper wires. For
the steet used either solid copper wires with resistor type boots or the
spiral wrap type solid core wires. Remember that any radio suppressed wire
(either built into the wires or into the boots will have greater
resistance than non-supressed. Oh yeah, those carbon string type
supression wire, they are junk and spen most of their time turning your
ignition energy into heat. Don't use 'em ever. I like the Jacobs best and
although they are spendy, they come with a lifetime replacement waranty.
They are also the only wires where the boots are bonded to the insulation
so that the boots won't slip and no water, dirt, etc. can get in and cause
problems.
As to how much the voltage drop in standard wire is, you would be
surprised. In carbon wires it is scary how bad the voltage drop is. In
fact this is probably how they claim 15X the output. By comparing a 7mm
cheapy carbon thread wire to their solid core dual strand, ultra wismo
wires they can probably show that kind of improvement. Course almost any
solid core wire would.
Marc Sayer
Performance Engineering
msa...@efn.org
Steve Won
In a previous article, aq...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Dean F. Utendorf) says:
>
>What happens to the Bosch plugs when that tiny platinum wire dissapears
>into the insulator nose? Then you get poor fire plugs. I use Autolite
>platinums as they have a very nice platinum pad to last for a good log time.
>
But they're platinum, so they should be super-resistant to erosion.
Steve
--
Mechanical Engineering, Queen's University. '94
Car tinkering: "Less weight means more performance!!!"
MTN Biking: "You know you're having fun when things begin to hurt/break."
Timothy Troy Turner
damn things in road going vehicles and pay some University's
engineering dept. enough green to sponsor a senior research project
testing the plugs versus various other brands in a standardized
test motor. Many motors which are fully instrumented to measure
torque, power, and emissions outputs sit idle for semesters at a time
for lack of good projects.
To sponsor such a project, you'd prolly only be out the cost of
several sets of plugs and a drum of good fuel: i.e. less than $100.
Tim
Mark Wu
Well, dual-core wires (correct me if I'm wrong) have the core wire that
transmits the ignition pulse but the other "core wire" doesn't transmit
anything but insulates the transmitting core wire from interference of other
wiress since all the ignition pulses create a magnetic field. The magnetic
field induced would interfere with the adjacent wires' electron flow and thus
cause misfire problems. It's not as simple as just a wire with two cores.
Mark
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.941103204958.23053D-100000@gladstone>,
Gary Mager
: In a previous article, bc...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Steve Won) says:
: >
: >But they're platinum, so they should be super-resistant to erosion.
: >
: Are they pure platinum? I have seen many Bosch platinums where the
: electrode was eroded far into the insulator nose producing less than
: optimal spark.
I'll throw my $0.02 into the mix... I've used Bosch Platinum
plugs on three different vehicles for 6 years and been VERY satisfied.
I get plug life about 30-50% in excess of normal plugs, and noticibly
better performance and MPG, too. I tried Splitfire plugs on one car,
an '83 Honda Civic CVCC 1500. They seemed to work similarly to the
Bosch Platinum plugs, and worked well... for a while. The plug
life was not great. The electrodes wore down fairly quickly, and
I replaced them with a new set of Bosch Platinums after about 18,000
miles. Certainly, some other people might have different results,
but as for me, I'll keep the Bosch plugs and save my money....
--
Gary R. Mager | P.O. Box 230758 | Portland, OR 97281
gma...@teleport.com | Public Access Internet @ 503-220-1016 (2400-28800, N81)
Dean F. Utendorf
In a previous article, zel...@pegasus.montclair.edu (Paul Zeller) says:
>I have used split fire plugs and they are no big deal
>I have used Bosch Platinum plugs and noticed quicker starting and a 1MPG
>increase plus the bosch are half the price of shit fire.
What happens to the Bosch plugs when that tiny platinum wire dissapears
into the insulator nose? Then you get poor fire plugs. I use Autolite
platinums as they have a very nice platinum pad to last for a good log time.
--
Dean F. Utendorf
In a previous article, whit...@netcom.com (Mark Whitmer) says:
>times the performance of standard wires. Correct me if I'm wrong, but
>wouldn't adding a second conductor simply reduce the resistance by LESS
>than 50% (law of diminishing returns). ie. the second conductor would
>provide at most twice the "performance" (if you can actually believe that
Doubling the copper wuld reduce the resistance TO 50% of the original one
wire. (if one wire was 10 ohms then two in parallel would be 5 ohms).
Dan Caster
resistance. But it isn't because the loss in the wires isn't significant
compared to the power in the spark.
I think that good high voltage insulation is more important.
--
Cheers,
Dan
Greetings from Bainbridge Island, Washington
Will_Mast
>: Splitfire also sells ignition wires. A set for my
>: 6 cylinder was $79.xx I told the clerk I'd think
>: it over.
In college I had an '83 Escort. I bought it at 53,000 and wrecked it at
150,000. I used Autolite plugs, Why? because I bought the car with those
Autolite plugs. Every 10,000 or so I'd take them out, file the contacts, gap
them, oil up the threads and put them back in. 35-40mpg, never an Ignition
Problem. I replaced the ignition wires with Standard brand True Blue Aramid
core wires ($30). Why? because the wires it came with broke when I pulled
them off and the True Blues will not break and will last the life of
the car.
I have put 75,000 miles on a set of Champion plugs on my Renault. Why
Champian?, they came with the car when I bought it. I clean & gap em about
every 20,000 miles because I'm gettin' lazy. 33-35mpg. Still needed the True
Blue wires though.
The moral:
You never really need to replace plugs on a car that is well tuned
and burns unleaded fuel. With practice you can clean, gap, lubricate, and
re-install plugs in less time than it takes your credit card to clear at the
parts store.
In High School I drove a 351 Windsor with an 10.7:1 compression ratio and
burned 100 Octane Gas. This animal would foul plugs in about 600 miles. I
eventually began using some type of 6 electrode J.C. Whitney plug. These
would get me through Oil changes without cleaning.
Matt Lundberg
Mark Wu <kr...@merle.acns.nwu.edu> wrote:
>
>Well, dual-core wires (correct me if I'm wrong) have the core wire that
>transmits the ignition pulse but the other "core wire" doesn't transmit
>anything but insulates the transmitting core wire from interference of other
>wiress since all the ignition pulses create a magnetic field. The magnetic
>field induced would interfere with the adjacent wires' electron flow and thus
>cause misfire problems. It's not as simple as just a wire with two cores.
>
a current loop, which is a standard way to isolate nearby signals, and
is probably used in whatever machine you're now using. An additional
wire will do nothing to reduce the magnetic field unless the current
exactly matches the first, in the other direction of course.
So you've been corrected. I remember the ad saying that reliability
was the reason that you should give them all your money. Seems that
one wire just isn't reliable enough any more, even though they've been
this way since time began.
--
Matthew Lundberg m...@math.wustl.edu
Washington University,
Dept. of Mathematics "You'll PAY to know what you REALLY think"
St. Louis, MO 63130 Dobbs, 1961
stephen...@hotmail.co.uk
> They are just standard Autolite spark plugs with a little nick in
> the end. Not worth using in 99% of cases.
hi, i had a Triumph Bonneville that was a bitch to start, it had a Lucas starter motor, just wouldn't go, swapped the champion ng 7s for split fires it started 1st time every time, i put them in my rover 25, got better performance and fuel economy, so you tell me if they're any good.....
.
> On Monday, 24 October 1994 03:40:41 UTC+1, John Horner wrote:
>> They are just standard Autolite spark plugs with a little nick in
>> the end. Not worth using in 99% of cases.
>
> hi, i had a Triumph Bonneville that was a bitch to start, it had a Lucas starter motor, just wouldn't go,
swapped the champion ng 7s for split fires it started 1st time every
time, i put them in my rover 25, got better performance and fuel economy,
so you tell me if they're any good.....
require anything other than a standard spark plug. The
only worthwhile improvement is a longer lasting center
electrode.
Scott Dorsey
>
>arter motor, just wouldn't go, swapped the champion ng 7s for split fires i=
>t started 1st time every time, i put them in my rover 25, got better perfor=
That thread is long closed.
2. Maybe your Triumph is in that 1%.
3. Maybe you should consider installing a CDI module in the Triumph, it goes
a long way toward getting a cleaner and hotter spark and more reliable
running. Back in the seventies, the Mark IV modules were popular. If
you're finding it only starts reliably with some plugs, I would definitely
look into a CDI (after changing cables and coil of course).
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."