Toyota Camry -- Speedometer not working... Will it fail smog?
Rav
The "check engine" light came on 03 Toyota Camry.
The mechanic checked with the diagnostic scanner and confirmed that it
was because the speedometer and odometer were not working.
He checked some other stuff which I didn't understand -- something to
do with vehicle sensors.
He said he suspected the car computer and that he would need to read
the manual to see if he can fix the computer but I may have to take it
to a dealer for expensive repair or replacement of the computer.
Also, the mechanic mentioned that the car would not pass California
Smog with a non-functional speedomoter/odomoter.
Is that true? Not sure why smog check would care.
Scott Dorsey
>
>The "check engine" light came on 03 Toyota Camry.
>
>The mechanic checked with the diagnostic scanner and confirmed that it
>was because the speedometer and odometer were not working.
How long have they not been working?
>He checked some other stuff which I didn't understand -- something to
>do with vehicle sensors.
There's a sensor in the transmission that tells the instrument panel how
fast the transmission is turning. Sometimes that sensor breaks.
>He said he suspected the car computer and that he would need to read
>the manual to see if he can fix the computer but I may have to take it
>to a dealer for expensive repair or replacement of the computer.
It could also be a cabling issue somewhere.
>Also, the mechanic mentioned that the car would not pass California
>Smog with a non-functional speedomoter/odomoter.
>
>Is that true? Not sure why smog check would care.
Because without the odometer running, they can't query the computer to
get accurate engine information. If they want to know how much gas you're
using per mile, for instance, they need to know how many miles you have gone.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Rav
> Rav <raul.frem...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >The "check engine" light came on 03 Toyota Camry.
>
> >The mechanic checked with the diagnostic scanner and confirmed that it
> >was because the speedometer and odometer were not working.
>
> How long have they not been working?
Speedometer/Odometer haven't been working for a month. Car mileage is
58,000.
>
> It could also be a cabling issue somewhere.
Not sure if this means anything, but most of the time the speedometer
is at 0 , and the odometer doesn't move, and the "check engine" light
is on.
But sometimes, the "check engine" light goes off, the speedometer
jumps all around and the odometer bumps up the mileage
(incorrectly)...
And about how much will it cost if the computer has to replaced?
Ray O
"Rav" <raul.f...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4246b30b-ada5-4977...@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
It is unlikely that the car's engine control computer, referred to as an
electronic control unit, or ECU, needs repair or replacement because they
have a very low failure rate. A competent technician who is familiar with
Toyotas knows that the engine ECU is the last thing to check, not the first
thing to check. Even if the engine ECU did need repair, it would have to be
sent out to an authorized repair facility for repair.
The reason that the car would not pass smog is that vehicles with the check
engine light (actually called the malfunction indicator light, or MIL)
illuminated automatically fail, and the reason that the MIL is on is because
of a problem with the speed sensor circuit.
There is a speed sensor on the transmission that sends a signal to the
speedometer control on the back of the instrument cluster, and diagnosis is
pretty straightforward. The On-board Diagnostics Generation II (OBD II)
scan tools used by professional technicians should have the ability to read
the signal generated by the transmission speed sensor and therefore check
the function of the speed sensor. Even if the technician's scan tool does
not have this capability, the sensor can be checked with a volt meter at the
sensor itself.
If the sensor is putting out the proper signal, then the next step would be
to check the wiring between the speed sensor and the speedometer control by
checking the signal at the wire harness at the speedometer control. If the
signal is good, then the speedometer control is bad, and if the signal is
bad, then the wiring between the sensor and speedometer control is bad. The
most time consuming part of doing all these checks would be removing the
instrument cluster to get at the speedometer control, about a half-hour
total for all the checks.
If anyone did any work just before the speedometer started acting up or if
you had any electrical work done on the car like installing an aftermarket
remote starter or audio system, I'd check that work first to make sure that
the speedometer circuit wasn't disturbed.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
Hachiroku ハチロク
If it is the computer, you an expect $800-1100 just for the part.
I'm not sure where it is on this car, but they are usually either behind
the glove box or in the pass. side kick panel. They are easy to replae;
the plugs only go in one way. Expect to pay a lot to have a dealer do it.
if you go to http://www.car-part.com they are anywhere from ~$150 up.
It will not have the correct mileage. Also, make sure to get the correct
one for your car.
AZ Nomad
the engine computer gets the road speed from the speedometer, actually there's
a cable or switch on the transmission that both the speedometer and
engine computer use.
in2dadark
Move to another state. Florida doesn't have that nonsense. I'm soo
glad. It not only wastes your money but something more valuable and
irreplaceable-your time.
in2dadark
wrote:
> "Rav" <raul.frem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sounds like the other guy was a parts swapper? Swap out this and that
and hope it works. And of course they want to start with the most
expensive item.
Ray O
"in2dadark" <in2d...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c8477940-090f-4df1...@p35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
**********
I think an unintended consequence of the OBD II standard and the widespread
availability of OBD II scanners is that people with just enough knowledge to
identify and find a part in a car can swap parts.
The possibility that the engine ECU is causing the OP's speedometer problems
is not zero, but in 15 years of working for the company that made the OP's
car and working with over 100 dealers, I have never heard of an engine ECU
causing the symptoms that the OP is describing.
I think I know what is causing the problem, but since a proper, professional
diagnosis only takes about 5 additional minutes, I'd check inn the sequence
I mentioned.
Hachiroku ハチロク
> Sounds like the other guy was a parts swapper? Swap out this and that and
> hope it works. And of course they want to start with the most expensive
> item.
>
> **********
> I think an unintended consequence of the OBD II standard and the
> widespread availability of OBD II scanners is that people with just enough
> knowledge to identify and find a part in a car can swap parts.
He-e-e-e-y...wait a minute!!!
Ray O
"Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.11.13....@e86.GTS...
Been there, done that when the replacement part is cheap and I don't feel
like crawling under the car more than once, like in the middle of January in
Chicago
Hachiroku ハチロク
Or Western Mass!
Mike Hunter
the O2 sensor. LOL
"Ray O" <roki...@NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message
news:hdkl33$3hp$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Scott Dorsey
>That is one reason the most often replaced GOOD part on todays vehicles, is
>the O2 sensor. LOL
Is the number two the coil, still?
Ralph Mowery
"in2dadark" <in2d...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c8477940-090f-4df1...@p35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>Sounds like the other guy was a parts swapper? Swap >out this and that
>and hope it works. And of course they want to start with >the most
>expensive item.
I almost wish that the parts swapper had done that to my car. Had a 91
Camry a few years back that started running rough and would sometimes cut
off. I put in plugs, coil and wires. No help. The Autozone help page
mentioned a mass air flow sensor (think that was it) but it cost over $ 500.
Thought I would take it to a dealer to find out. After 3 weeks of swapping
parts out, they finally decided on that sensor and it fixed the problem. I
wound up with about 2 or 3 othe sensors for about $ 100 each, a new set of
wires as I had not used Toyota wires and a few other things. By the time
they finished with it, I had about $ 1400 in the repair. I would not have
minded the cost of the $ 500 sensor and labor to change it, but it really
ticked me off they replaced other things and took 3 weeks to repair it.
Ray O
"Scott Dorsey" <klu...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:hdkmgi$1bg$1...@panix2.panix.com...
I would guess #2 is mass air flow sensors.
Ray O
"Ralph Mowery" <rmower...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:0_6dneYIS_4MfGDX...@earthlink.com...
the dealer should have put the car on a scope to check the ignition system.
Aftermarket ignition can cause those symptoms that the parts can be checked
with a scope. The MAF sensor probably only needed cleaning.
Ralph Mowery
"Ray O" <roki...@NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message
>> By the time they finished with it, I had about $ 1400 in the repair. I
>> would not have minded the cost of the $ 500 sensor and labor to change
>> it, but it really ticked me off they replaced other things and took 3
>> weeks to repair it.
>
> the dealer should have put the car on a scope to check the ignition
> system. Aftermarket ignition can cause those symptoms that the parts can
> be checked with a scope. The MAF sensor probably only needed cleaning.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)
>
Cleaning it sure would have saved me a bunch. That dealership is not known
for very good mechanics, I found out later.
I doubt they even know how to use a scope on the engine.
A co-worker took a car there for running rough. They changed the spark
plugs among other things. Car ran ok for a week and then acted up again.
The co-worker decided to look at the plugs and found they had only replaced
7 of the 8 plugs. It was not replaced as it was very hard to get to. Had
to be an origional plug as it was a differant brand than the other 7.
This is a Ford/Toyota dealership and it was a Ford with the 8 plugs.
Jeff Strickland
"Rav" <raul.f...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4246b30b-ada5-4977...@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
Yes, it's true.
The Smog Nazis will fail the car if the Check light is on for any reason.
The computer uses speed data to make decisions on how much gas to use, and
stuff like that. The decisions affect how many pollutants are spewed from
the tail pipe. If the speed data is missing, the decisions will by
definition be wrong, and the pollutants will be high, even if they are not
high in actuality. The Check light is ON, so the decisions must be wrong.
Period.
You could get the bright (no pun intended) idea to unplug the Check light,
but that will cause you to fail smog too because a requirement of the smog
check is that you be properly notified that the decision making process has
gone astray. The check includes looking to see if the light comes on when
the ignition is ON, then goes out after the engine starts.
The failure modes for the smog test are, Check light never on and always on.
Of course, if the light happens to come on, go off, then come on during the
running ot the test, that's a failure opprotunity too.
As for your problem, I recall reading that the speed sensor on the tail
shaft of the transmission has some kind of problem. Perhaps RayO has
discussed this, or will discuss it.
Mike Hunter
points did not burn, the condenser will last a lifetime.
My 71 Pinto, with 300,000 miles on the odometer still has the original
condenser, although I've changed points more times than I can remember. I
carry one in the glove box in case it does fail some day. ;)
"Scott Dorsey" <klu...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:hdkmgi$1bg$1...@panix2.panix.com...
aarcuda69062
"Ray O" <roki...@NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote:
> the dealer should have put the car on a scope to check the ignition system.
> Aftermarket ignition can cause those symptoms that the parts can be checked
> with a scope. The MAF sensor probably only needed cleaning.
Cleaning of what?
Ray O
"aarcuda69062" <none...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:nonelson-F26100...@news.eternal-september.org...
The hot wire can get dirty, and the dirt can act like an insulator and
prevent the air flowing past the sensor from cooling the wire properly. The
sensor is not supposed to be serviceable, but a shot of brake cleaner
sometimes does the trick.
aarcuda69062
"Ray O" <roki...@NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote:
> "aarcuda69062" <none...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:nonelson-F26100...@news.eternal-september.org...
> > In article <hdllp1$u20$3...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > "Ray O" <roki...@NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote:
> >
> >> the dealer should have put the car on a scope to check the ignition
> >> system.
> >> Aftermarket ignition can cause those symptoms that the parts can be
> >> checked
> >> with a scope. The MAF sensor probably only needed cleaning.
> >
> > Cleaning of what?
>
> The hot wire can get dirty, and the dirt can act like an insulator and
> prevent the air flowing past the sensor from cooling the wire properly. The
> sensor is not supposed to be serviceable, but a shot of brake cleaner
> sometimes does the trick.
But that model year did not use a hot wire sensor.
Scott Dorsey
In the case of the mechanical sensors, you can usually get into the
potentiometer element and give it a shot of a pot cleaner like Cailube,
and that will fix a lot of these problems for a while. While you're at
it make sure the vanes turn freely and put a drop of light machine oil on
each of the bearing points.
Inspect the element, though. If it's visibly worn, you may just have to
replace it.
Ray O
Oops, my bad. When I responded to Ralph Mowery's post that mentioned a MAF
sensor, I assumed the car had one without thinking about the model year.
To Ralph, Toyota referred to the potentiometer type sensor on that vintage
Camry as an "air flow meter." Air flow meters were pretty reliable so I
could see why it was low on the list of suspects but they are easy to check
with a meter.
Ralph Mowery
"Ray O" <roki...@NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message
> Oops, my bad. When I responded to Ralph Mowery's post that mentioned a
> MAF sensor, I assumed the car had one without thinking about the model
> year.
>
> To Ralph, Toyota referred to the potentiometer type sensor on that vintage
> Camry as an "air flow meter." Air flow meters were pretty reliable so I
> could see why it was low on the list of suspects but they are easy to
> check with a meter.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)
>
It was a 1991 Camry 4 cylinder. I may have said MAF. It could have been
anything that had to do with the air flow. It was over 5 years ago and all
I remember about it was it was high up on the list of things to replace for
the problems I though the car was having. That was from a web site like
Autozone. I took it to a dealer because the sensor was around $ 500 to $
600.
As I mentioned I later found the dealership was not too well thought of for
repair work. Looks like if it was simple to check , the mechanic should
have done that in the nearly 3 weeks he was looking at it. Also he should
have done some other things you mentioned, but must not have done those
either. I think he was just a parts changer and did not do any real tests.
Ray O
It is possible to check the output signal of just about every sensor in a
car. and the proper, professional approach is to check the signal before
replacing a sensor.