Why are cheap paintjobs cheap?
Bo Williams
>
> Can anybody tell me why the cheapo paint shops like Earl Scheib
>are so cheap? Do they use recycled housepaint? Do they do a slapdash
>job of masking? Do they leave drips and runs? At $99 or thereabouts
>for a paint job there's got to be a catch -- what is it?
I don't know _all_ of the catches, but I do know that they charge extra for those
"little" things--like painting the door jambs and the underside of the hood. And
on the couple of Earl Scheib paint jobs I've seen in my life, there have been
drips and runs.
> Is it *possible* to get a decent paint job out of such places --
>for instance by doing the prep sanding and masking yourself in advance?
Maybe, but I doubt it. Your best quality/price compromise is probably going to be
an independent businessperson who works out of his/her home, or out of a very low
overhead shop. You'll get a great price and shoddy work from an Earl Scheib-type
joint, and you'll get good work but a high price from a professional body shop.
Go to an antique/classic car auction in your area and ask a few questions here and
there--you'll probably get more painter references that you could possibly use.
--
Bo Williams
wrwi...@ingr.com
Not speaking for Intergraph Corporation.
j...@legato.ecology.uga.edu
I have suddenly got to do some major work on a big old Jeep
wagon (small matter of a con rod sticking out the side of the block.)
Since we've decided to rehabilitate the old heap that we know pretty
well rather than replace it with another only-slightly-less-old heap
that we don't know at all, I'd like to get tha body patched up and
painted while the engine and transmission are out.
Can anybody tell me why the cheapo paint shops like Earl Scheib
are so cheap? Do they use recycled housepaint? Do they do a slapdash
job of masking? Do they leave drips and runs? At $99 or thereabouts
for a paint job there's got to be a catch -- what is it?
Is it *possible* to get a decent paint job out of such places --
for instance by doing the prep sanding and masking yourself in advance?
Thanks very much!
- Jim
| James P. H. Fuller, director Stable Isotope Laboratory |
| Institute of Ecology |
| j...@legato.ecology.uga.edu University of Georgia |
| jfu...@sparrow.ecology.uga.edu Athens, GA U.S.A. |
Ed Wong
paint job. The $99 was for a restricted set of colors - lemon yellow
and a puke green/brown were available. I do belive the amout of
prep work (aka trim removal etc) was monimal. You can save money by
doin alot of that prep work yourself.
Not that I've done it, but if you are going to do a resto, take the
body off the frame, strip the body to the shell, and do all the rust
repair / welding first. Then take it to Earl Sheib. I think the job will
come out much better (and look factory to boot). Lots of work though.
EWong
Andy Dingley
> Can anybody tell me why the cheapo paint shops like Earl Scheib
>are so cheap?
Paint jobs _are_ cheap. It's preparation that's expensive.
> Do they do a slapdash job of masking?
> Do they leave drips and runs?
The ones round here do. You really notice this around plastic trim,
where they mask the trim up, rather than taking it off. It's not a
problem for repainting an off-road vehicle the same colour as before,
but you'll certainly notice it if the previous colour was markedly
different. You'll also notice that under the carpets, under the bonnet
(hood) and around the door edges may be unpainted.
> Is it *possible* to get a decent paint job out of such places --
>for instance by doing the prep sanding and masking yourself in advance?
This is a good approach. It's what I do for restoration jobs. I have
reasonable spray equipment, but I don't have a dust-free booth for
spraying in, nor a heated drier. I can spray my primer and undercoats
OK, but I leave the final colour to a well-equipped sprayshop.
You'll need to trailer the vehicle to the paint finisher, preferably
covered. Even if you're spraying a roadworthy vehicle, it's still not
practical to drive it around with the masking in place. You'll also
get a better paint finish if you do it with doors & boot lids
removed, and with the interior trim and engine removed.
Personally I don't spray interiors anyway, I brush paint them in black
Smoothrite. Although there may be odd areas (especially on older cars)
which should be body colour, most of the footwell & under-carpet areas
are better when done in an inconspicuous and hard-wearing paint, even
if it's not as "original" as body colour.
I understand US laws (or is it just California ?) are quite strict on
the environmental hazards of paint. You might not be able to do _any_
spraying in you locale.
--
Andy Dingley din...@codesmth.demon.co.uk
The Internet has given us all mountains of information at our fingertips.
...and all most people want to do is pick their noses with them.
Bob Immler
>
> Is it *possible* to get a decent paint job out of such places --
>for instance by doing the prep sanding and masking yourself in advance?
Their actual paint jobs tend to be quite good. But their prep jobs tend
to leave something to be desired. So the trick is to prep them
yourselves. I don't think I would do the masking, but that's up to you.
Had a friend that actually used to pay a body shop to prep a car and
then have it painted by one of the one day places. Those paint jobs
looked terrific.
Gil Meacham
> Can anybody tell me why the cheapo paint shops like Earl Scheib
>are so cheap?
Yes...read on
>Do they use recycled housepaint?
No...They just use a low quality automotive paint that will not last as
long as the high quality paints and is easier to paint.
>Do they do a slapdash job of masking?
Yes, and they do not remove any chrome or trim, like a quality shop would.
>Do they leave drips and runs?
Sometimes, although they usually are capable of spraying good enough to not
have major flaws. They do guarantee the work as far as runs and orange
peel, but I've had friends take back paint jobs twice without getting it
right. It depends on the particular shop (and sometimes the day you do it)
> At $99 or thereabouts>for a paint job there's got to be a catch -- what is
> it?
No catch, you just are paying for low talent labor and low quality materials.
> Is it *possible* to get a decent paint job out of such places --
>for instance by doing the prep sanding and masking yourself in advance?
You can get a good looking paint job if you do the prep and get a good day for
the sprayer. _But_ your paint will not last very long. 2 years is good life
for low quality automotive paint left outdoors.
tas...@skcla.monsanto.com
>
>>
>> Is it *possible* to get a decent paint job out of such places --
>>for instance by doing the prep sanding and masking yourself in advance?
>
> to leave something to be desired. So the trick is to prep them
> yourselves. I don't think I would do the masking, but that's up to you.
>
> Had a friend that actually used to pay a body shop to prep a car and
> then have it painted by one of the one day places. Those paint jobs
> looked terrific.
>
>
The saying around here, about Schieb paint jobs, has always been...
"Only $99.99."
"You mask it - we paint it."
"You don't mask it - we paint it."
You can have a job done 3 ways.
Fast, well, or cheap.
You get any combination of 2.
-T.
Jeepsk8
then going to a custom shop for graphics or fancy colored translucent top
coats...and of course doing the prep work yourself.
-Rodney
Dennis J. Ciplickas
In article <4dgi0m$p...@hobbes.cc.uga.edu> j...@legato.ecology.uga.edu writes:
> Can anybody tell me why the cheapo paint shops like Earl Scheib
> are so cheap?
Prep work. From the spot repair work I've done on my own cars, the
majority of the time spent on a good bodywork is in the prep. This is
where all the money goes when paying someone else to do it.
With some practice, anyone can run a paint sprayer and not make runs
or sags. (BTW, I would hope any respectable shop would sand these
down and re-paint.)
-Dennis
'76 300D, could use some paint
--
Dennis Ciplickas Email: den...@ece.cmu.edu
Carnegie Mellon University, ECE Phone: (412) 268-4975
5000 Forbes Avenue FAX: (412) 268-6662
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
Bernard Johnson
> In article <4dgi0m$p...@hobbes.cc.uga.edu> j...@legato.ecology.uga.edu writes:
> In article <4dgi0m$p...@hobbes.cc.uga.edu> j...@legato.ecology.uga.edu writes:
>
> > Can anybody tell me why the cheapo paint shops like Earl Scheib
> >are so cheap?
>
> Yes...read on
>
> >Do they use recycled housepaint?
>
> No...They just use a low quality automotive paint that will not last as
> long as the high quality paints and is easier to paint.
>
> >Do they do a slapdash job of masking?
>
> Yes, and they do not remove any chrome or trim, like a quality shop would.
>
> >Do they leave drips and runs?
>
> Sometimes, although they usually are capable of spraying good enough to not
> have major flaws. They do guarantee the work as far as runs and orange
> peel, but I've had friends take back paint jobs twice without getting it
> right. It depends on the particular shop (and sometimes the day you do it)
>
> > At $99 or thereabouts>for a paint job there's got to be a catch -- what is
> > it?
>
> No catch, you just are paying for low talent labor and low quality materials.
>
> > Is it *possible* to get a decent paint job out of such places --
> >for instance by doing the prep sanding and masking yourself in advance?
>
> You can get a good looking paint job if you do the prep and get a good day for
> the sprayer. _But_ your paint will not last very long. 2 years is good life
> for low quality automotive paint left outdoors.
Not nescessarily!
I got a cheap paint job at "One Day Auto Paint" (took 'em 10 days). I did
the prepping (sanding, masking etc...)
I asked them to prime it first and call me to inspect it. I showed up
with a piece of sandpaper and only needed to touch up one drip.
When they painted it they got a thumbprint on the hood, inside the engine
compartment (still there).
It really shines though. That was back in 1985. It still looks great! I
paid $199.00 for primer and paint. I bought some touch-up and never had
to use it. The old beast sits outside all winter.(I wax it good just
before the temp drops below 40) I'm ready for a second restoration (it's
a 55 chevy truck) and the paint outlasted the mechanicals!
I realize this type of prepwork is not for everyone (I spent over 6
months prepping in my spare time) but it worked for me. Also be SURE to
TALK to the people who paint your car. Let them know you take pride in
the vehicle. Give them a sense of pride in what they are doing for you.
Dave Speed
As I'm near the end of a 2 year (plus) restoration project, I thought
I'd add my $0.50 to this discussion.
Bob Immler <roa...@sover.net> (and others) wrote:
>> Is it *possible* to get a decent paint job out of such places --
>>for instance by doing the prep sanding and masking yourself in advance?
>Their actual paint jobs tend to be quite good. But their prep jobs tend
>to leave something to be desired. So the trick is to prep them
>yourselves. I don't think I would do the masking, but that's up to you.
By all means do the prep yourself if you are capable. Prep is 90% of
the paint job. *Be sure to use compatible materials !* Modern paint
chemistry is not simple. And some of the materials are somewhat toxic
(isocyanates). Spraying an even coat is not difficult with the right
equipment and proper base.
>Had a friend that actually used to pay a body shop to prep a car and
>then have it painted by one of the one day places. Those paint jobs
>looked terrific.
*This* sounds weird. With prep work 90% of the job, why pay a pro to
do the expensive work and then skimp on the final ? I would advise
against this plan.
Haven't seen an Earl Scheib job for years, but the ones I saw during
my mis-spent youth included such nicities as painting over small trim
pieces, awful colors, peeling, etc. (This was during the $29.95
era...). We joked that they used Electrolux vacuum cleaners (not
true). Not recommended for most applications.
I *have* used Maaco for a $199 special, gee - it must be 10 - 12 yrs
ago in LA. They did a decent job, but it was not a color change and
there was no body work involved. (Prior collision repairs had oxidized
differently and looked like hell...). I was selling the car and
wanted it to look good. And it did. I'd use it again for a commuter
or some such. I think its $299 on special now for a limited color
selection. Also a chain called One Day (or something) with a similiar
deal). Recommended for many applications.
Last time I looked (and this was several years ago), *good* paint jobs
started around $2000 and went up quickly from there. This is why I
decided to do my own painting.
The biggest drawback to the el cheapo ($99) paint jobs (IMHO) is the
paint itself. You can not get quality paint at these cheap prices.
I would expect the "nice paint job" to last for perhaps a year (or
less) if left in the sun. It will probably scratch easily as well,
and be difficult to match after damage. I'd hate to have all *my*
hard work preping the vehicle die this quickly.
Automotive finishing materials are *expensive*. A quart of PPG DP-40
(a good epoxy primer) and DP-401 catalyst just cost me $43.00 at my
local automotive finishes store. PPG Durethane (polyurethane) will
cost roughly $300 for 1 gal each of the three-part system. The more
common Deltron (urethane enamel) system is about 25% cheaper (an
excellent paint). I think thinner was running in the $12 - $16 /
gallon range.
A partial frame-off restoration of my '53 Dodge Power Wagon will end
up using over 12 quarts of primer even with a decent Binks HVLP gun.
So total paint cost in my case will be over $600 (we have not
discussed sanding surfacers / sealers / clear coats yet ...).
Speaking of HVLP (a new spray gun technology that gets 2x the paint on
the surface and less organics in the atmosphere) , recent magazine
articles suggest that the EPA is driving a lot of garage painters out
of business. As some earlier posts have suggested, I have gotten some
excellent paint jobs off of "part-time" painters who did it for fun
and not as a primary source of income. He had the car for a month,
but it did not matter to me.
It *may* be illegal now to paint your vehicle at home in certain areas
(Calif. and New Jersey come to mind) ! The number of automotive parts
stores handling paint seems to have declined as well; I had to drive
>50 miles to find somebody who would actually mix a custom Durethane
color.
Your mileage may vary.
Dave Speed - KC6WKI
cOrNfLaKe GrRrL
i've seen advertisements on tv for a paint job
done for $200 (normally $400)...what should i
look for in getting my Blazer painted? it's
already a deep brown...and i want it painted
black. and what would be a good price for a
full body paint job?
Katherine Park
future. Clearcoating the car will also protect it much better than a
cheapo paint job. I think Maaco is running some special right now.
that is if you aren't planning on messing it up again four wheelin'.
alan
> Can anybody tell me why the cheapo paint shops like Earl Scheib
>are so cheap? Do they use recycled housepaint? Do they do a slapdash
>job of masking? Do they leave drips and runs? At $99 or thereabouts
>for a paint job there's got to be a catch -- what is it?
> Is it *possible* to get a decent paint job out of such places --
>for instance by doing the prep sanding and masking yourself in advance?
Limited color selection. Limited (or non-existent) pre-paint preparation.
Depends on what you mean by "decent". When a car of mine gets old enough
to have rust all around the wheel wells, etc. I usually take it to Earl
Scheib and get one of their cheapo paint jobs.
The car looks like it has a new lease on life for a couple or three years,
without costing an arm and a leg. Worth it!
If you really want a good paint job, though, I'd go to a good body shop,
and pay the freight.
Alan
Most people stumble over the truth, now and then, but they
usually manage to pick themselves up and go on, anyway.
---- Winston Churchill
Robert Alpert
> the sprayer. _But_ your paint will not last very long. 2 years is good life
> for low quality automotive paint left outdoors.
I have a '64 Rambler station wagon painted by Maaco about 5 years ago,
which is parked outdoors, the paint has held up very well. In fact
when I got this car painted I was pretty amazed at the job they did for
about 200 bucks. (This was during a 1/2 price special, supposedly the
job they did would have normally cost 400.00.) Yes, there's a little
overspray here and there, but I'm still quite happy with the quality
of the work for the price. (This is a car I purchased as a "beater"
but the body was in such good shape I decided to get it sprayed.
It had no rust and needed no bodywork.)
--
Bob Alpert
alp...@netaxs.com
Glenn S. Lyford
says...
[snip]
> Can anybody tell me why the cheapo paint shops like Earl Scheib
>are so cheap? Do they use recycled housepaint? Do they do a slapdash
>job of masking? Do they leave drips and runs? At $99 or thereabouts
>for a paint job there's got to be a catch -- what is it?
>
may instead use an adhesive addative like they use to color match the
plastic trim to the main body on newer vehicles. Longevity can be
greatly decreased. Paint jobs done this way have been known to die
after 2 years.
YMMV, good luck! --Glenn (gly...@us1.channel1.com)
> Is it *possible* to get a decent paint job out of such places --
>for instance by doing the prep sanding and masking yourself in advance?
>
Jeff
these guys that paint cars that cheap do not sand the cars
they wash the car with wax remover and mask then paint,
James P. H. Fuller
SUMMARY: CHEAP PAINT JOBS
Thanks very much to everyone who answered my recent question about
why the very cheap body-painting shops were so cheap and what were the
risks of dealing with them.
I wrote:
> Can anybody tell me why the cheapo paint shops like Earl Scheib
> are so cheap? Do they use recycled housepaint? Do they do a slapdash
> job of masking? Do they leave drips and runs? At $99 or thereabouts
> for a paint job there's got to be a catch -- what is it?
>
> Is it *possible* to get a decent paint job out of such places --
> for instance by doing the prep sanding and masking yourself in advance?
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bo Williams <wrwi...@ingr.com>
I don't know _all_ of the catches, but I do know that they charge extra
for those "little" things--like painting the door jambs and the underside
of the hood. And on the couple of Earl Scheib paint jobs I've seen in my
life, there have been drips and runs.
> Is it *possible* to get a decent paint job out of such places --
>for instance by doing the prep sanding and masking yourself in advance?
Maybe, but I doubt it. Your best quality/price compromise is probably going
to be an independent businessperson who works out of his/her home, or out of
a very low overhead shop. You'll get a great price and shoddy work from an
Earl Scheib-type joint, and you'll get good work but a high price from a
professional body shop. Go to an antique/classic car auction in your area
and ask a few questions here and there--you'll probably get more painter
references that you could possibly use.
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: din...@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley)
> Can anybody tell me why the cheapo paint shops like Earl Scheib
>are so cheap?
Paint jobs _are_ cheap. It's preparation that's expensive.
> Do they do a slapdash job of masking?
> Do they leave drips and runs?
The ones round here do. You really notice this around plastic trim,
where they mask the trim up, rather than taking it off. It's not a
problem for repainting an off-road vehicle the same colour as before,
but you'll certainly notice it if the previous colour was markedly
different. You'll also notice that under the carpets, under the bonnet
(hood) and around the door edges may be unpainted.
> Is it *possible* to get a decent paint job out of such places --
>for instance by doing the prep sanding and masking yourself in advance?
This is a good approach. It's what I do for restoration jobs. I have
reasonable spray equipment, but I don't have a dust-free booth for
spraying in, nor a heated drier. I can spray my primer and undercoats
OK, but I leave the final colour to a well-equipped sprayshop.
You'll need to trailer the vehicle to the paint finisher, preferably
covered. Even if you're spraying a roadworthy vehicle, it's still not
practical to drive it around with the masking in place. You'll also
get a better paint finish if you do it with doors & boot lids
removed, and with the interior trim and engine removed.
Personally I don't spray interiors anyway, I brush paint them in black
Smoothrite. Although there may be odd areas (especially on older cars)
which should be body colour, most of the footwell & under-carpet areas
are better when done in an inconspicuous and hard-wearing paint, even
if it's not as "original" as body colour.
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: ew...@netaxs.com (Ed Wong)
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bob Immler <roa...@sover.net>
> Is it *possible* to get a decent paint job out of such places --
>for instance by doing the prep sanding and masking yourself in advance?
Their actual paint jobs tend to be quite good. But their prep jobs tend
to leave something to be desired. So the trick is to prep them
yourselves. I don't think I would do the masking, but that's up to you.
Had a friend that actually used to pay a body shop to prep a car and
then have it painted by one of the one day places. Those paint jobs
looked terrific.
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: supr...@teleport.com (Gil Meacham)
Yes...read on
>Do they use recycled housepaint?
No...They just use a low quality automotive paint that will not last as
long as the high quality paints and is easier to paint.
>Do they do a slapdash job of masking?
Yes, and they do not remove any chrome or trim, like a quality shop would.
>Do they leave drips and runs?
Sometimes, although they usually are capable of spraying good enough to not
have major flaws. They do guarantee the work as far as runs and orange
peel, but I've had friends take back paint jobs twice without getting it
right. It depends on the particular shop (and sometimes the day you do it)
> At $99 or thereabouts>for a paint job there's got to be a catch -- what is
> it?
No catch, you just are paying for low talent labor and low quality materials.
> Is it *possible* to get a decent paint job out of such places --
>for instance by doing the prep sanding and masking yourself in advance?
You can get a good looking paint job if you do the prep and get a good day for
the sprayer. _But_ your paint will not last very long. 2 years is good life
for low quality automotive paint left outdoors.
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: afo...@eng.mc.xerox.com (Andrew Forte)
The $99 paint jobs are blow and glow jobs. They mask off parts,
blow the paint, and bake it to cure. That's all they do. Body work will
cost extra. The inside of the door jambs will not match the new paint
(especially if the color is changed). The vehicle will be a single color
(no two-tone, unless you count the door jambs :-) ). They probably will not
hit all the spots around and behind the masking. Also I don't think they
clear coat the vehicle.
BTW, it cost me $500 in materials to repaint a Cavalier Wagon. This
includes primer (with thinner), two color coats (with thinner and flex agent),
clear coat (with thinner and flex agent), and pin striping.
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: jee...@aol.com (Jeepsk8)
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: dsp...@well.com (Dave Speed)
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bernard Johnson <bu...@u.washington.edu>
> _But_ your paint will not last very long. 2 years is good life
> for low quality automotive paint left outdoors.
Not nescessarily!
I got a cheap paint job at "One Day Auto Paint" (took 'em 10 days). I did
the prepping (sanding, masking etc...)
I asked them to prime it first and call me to inspect it. I showed up
with a piece of sandpaper and only needed to touch up one drip.
When they painted it they got a thumbprint on the hood, inside the engine
compartment (still there).
It really shines though. That was back in 1985. It still looks great! I
paid $199.00 for primer and paint. I bought some touch-up and never had
to use it. The old beast sits outside all winter.(I wax it good just
before the temp drops below 40) I'm ready for a second restoration (it's
a 55 chevy truck) and the paint outlasted the mechanicals!
I realize this type of prepwork is not for everyone (I spent over 6
months prepping in my spare time) but it worked for me. Also be SURE to
TALK to the people who paint your car. Let them know you take pride in
the vehicle. Give them a sense of pride in what they are doing for you.
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: tas...@skcla.monsanto.com
The saying around here, about Schieb paint jobs, has always been...
"Only $99.99."
"You mask it - we paint it."
"You don't mask it - we paint it."
You can have a job done 3 ways.
Fast, well, or cheap.
You get any combination of 2.
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: den...@ece.cmu.edu (Dennis J. Ciplickas)
> Can anybody tell me why the cheapo paint shops like Earl Scheib
> are so cheap?
Prep work. From the spot repair work I've done on my own cars, the
majority of the time spent on a good bodywork is in the prep. This is
where all the money goes when paying someone else to do it.
With some practice, anyone can run a paint sprayer and not make runs
or sags. (BTW, I would hope any respectable shop would sand these
down and re-paint.)
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: kpa...@larry.cc.emory.edu (Katherine Park)
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: alp...@netaxs.com (Robert Alpert)
> _But_ your paint will not last very long. 2 years is good life
> for low quality automotive paint left outdoors.
I have a '64 Rambler station wagon painted by Maaco about 5 years ago,
which is parked outdoors, the paint has held up very well. In fact
when I got this car painted I was pretty amazed at the job they did for
about 200 bucks. (This was during a 1/2 price special, supposedly the
job they did would have normally cost 400.00.) Yes, there's a little
overspray here and there, but I'm still quite happy with the quality
of the work for the price. (This is a car I purchased as a "beater"
but the body was in such good shape I decided to get it sprayed.
It had no rust and needed no bodywork.)
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: al...@skypoint.com (alan)
> Can anybody tell me why the cheapo paint shops like Earl Scheib
> are so cheap? Do they use recycled housepaint? Do they do a slapdash
> Is it *possible* to get a decent paint job out of such places --
>for instance by doing the prep sanding and masking yourself in advance?
Limited color selection. Limited (or non-existent) pre-paint preparation.
Depends on what you mean by "decent". When a car of mine gets old enough
to have rust all around the wheel wells, etc. I usually take it to Earl
Scheib and get one of their cheapo paint jobs.
The car looks like it has a new lease on life for a couple or three years,
without costing an arm and a leg. Worth it!
If you really want a good paint job, though, I'd go to a good body shop,
and pay the freight.
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: gly...@us1.channel1.com (Glenn S. Lyford)
> At $99 or thereabouts for a paint job there's got to be a catch --
> what is it?
Friend of mine told me they often don't do a sand-and-primer prep. They
may instead use an adhesive addative like they use to color match the
plastic trim to the main body on newer vehicles. Longevity can be
greatly decreased. Paint jobs done this way have been known to die
after 2 years.
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: bwie...@kcnet.com
> Friend of mine told me they often don't do a sand-and-primer prep.
A friend of mine had his blazer painted by them. he drove it to the shop,
they did'nt even clean the bugs off the front of the vehicle, and then they
hastily masked it & sprayed it. When he got it back, there was paint on a
lot of the trim, and about 1.5 months later the paint shipped off by the
wheels, and the bugs on the front had come off, exposing the previous color.
> Is it *possible* to get a decent paint job out of such places --
> for instance by doing the prep sanding and masking yourself in advance?
I have heard of people going for their $250-325 (on sale) job and being fairly
satisfied. This is IF you sand the car, remove as much trim as possible, and
clean the car in their parking lot (wipe with solvent) One even went so far
as to apply a primer himself.
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From: Jeff <jef...@uniserve.com>
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From: wal...@roadster.sps.mot.com (thomas walter x5955)
Usually those "$99" jobs run around $250 these days.
No labor is involved, just a bare minimum of quick
wash (if that), let it dry and spray it. Looks good
for about 30 days... ;-( [I've had a race car painted
that way, and they even sprayed OVER the dealer sticker
on a new fender).
For the ol' Jeep I would buy a book on auto painting.
Prepping the body yourself is a good idea, Remove all
trim (you can peel that rubber trim off... just reattach
after cleaning it with good quality 3M stuff meant for
the job).
If the body is clean, just "scuff" with a 3M type sanding
pad... gives the new paint something to grab into. My
trim around the windows was rotted rubber, so I replaced
them all... about $10/window strip for my ol' Wagoneer.
Cheap paint probably would cost around $60 to paint it...
good Glassier (sp?) about $400 for paint alone. I used
DuPont on my roadster (small car, still $300 in material
alone)
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From: bil...@ix.netcom.com (BILL )
The less expensive paint shops rely on cheap labor and bulk buying
of paint, with limited choice of colors to cut their costs. (you might
consider buying your own paint-they probably wont give you any
reduction in price; they might, but only for the cost of their paint.
I would suggest you do the sanding in the areas where it is often
bypassed. (like right up next to moldings, around door handles, etc.)
A lot depends on who does the prep and the painting. I had a car
painted at E Schb. and was amazed to see that painter had deglected to
clean off the dirt that accumulated while sitting in the parking area
after it had been masked and was ready to paint. It is somewhat
dependant on the individuals. Sanding yourself, is probably the best
thing you could do. When masking, they know enough (usualy) to leave a
little chrome or rubber showing because the paint can be removed
relatively easily, but cannot be put on areas that have been
overmasked. I complained about the dirt showing under the paint and a
spot where the painter touched the fender with his hose and gouged the
wet paint. They did fix it at no charge, but only after I complained.
They were hoping I would overlook it. I worked at a body shop during
high school and learned a little about painting etc. When we prepped a
car for a used car lot, we were instructed to only wash it with TSP (no
sanding done at all) It would look good for 6 months or so untill the
paint began to flake off. This was in the 1950's. Some of the new
paints may have better holding power, but they cant be so good that you
dont need to sand the old paint a bit. Steel wool works well around
those hard to get at areas. Before you do any sanding, use a wax and
grease remover, so you dont embed any wax or grease into the paint
during sanding. Regular mineral spirits would probably work ok, but you
might want to talk to the guys at the local automotive paint store to
see what they recommend. The only other thing you might do is remove
things like chrome moldings or headlight frames. As I recall, E. S.
didnt want to paint the door jams for the advertised price (the area
exposed after you open the doors or under the trunk and hood.) (a good
reason to go with the original color or at least one close to it) or
expect to pay a little more.
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From: ga...@scifi.ucsf.EDU (Gary Helbig)
It's all in the prep work.
For a "real" paint job, the old paint is sanded smooth, filled, sanded
again, and primed. Then painted.
For an "Earl" paint job, they spray a special, thick undercoating over
your old paint, then apply the color coat.
If you ever see a thick yellow paint under a nick in the color coat,
you've seen what I'm talking about.
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Thanks again to all who took the trouble to respond!
Ron Bean
different question: I have a 12 year old Honda with 150K on it
that still runs great, but it's starting to get little rust spots
in various places. According to the dealer (and general talk on
the net), it's possible that it might go as much as another 50K,
which would be 4 more years.
I don't care what it looks like, but I'd like to slow the rust
down a little if I can. I was thinking of just brushing some
Rustoleum on it. Any reason I shouldn't? Would it be better to
use a spraycan? I'm assuming that painting whole panels would
look better than spot touch-ups.
From what I've heard, a MAACO paint job might not do much
good, but a "real" paint job would cost more than the car is
worth. I *could* just let it rust, but I have a feeling the rust
is going to accelerate once it gets started. The rear fenders
rusted through years ago, but this is the first time I've seen
rust elsewhere on the body (the lower body panels are plastic, so
they won't rust any time soon :-). I put some aluminum tape over
the holes in the fenders a couple of years ago, and it seems to
have held up pretty well.
If I'd known the car would last this long I would have had it
painted properly years ago. Cars used to be ready for the
junkyard after 100K, but these days it seems that 200K is not
that uncommon (at least for Hondas and Toyotas-- haven't heard
much about other brands). My parents have a 91 Honda with 60K on
it that still looks new!
==================
madnix!zap...@nicmad.nicolet.com (Ron Bean)
uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!zaphod
PAULD17
myself and hiring a good local shop to shoot the paint. I even furnished
the paint that I bought from one of the local suppliers ( name brand such
as dupont, ditzler, or ppg). You would be surprised how many body shops
are willing to shoot only. You should be able to do a car this way with
acrylic enamel for about $ 250.00. More work than an Earl Schieb job , but
it will last a lot longer. I have used Schieb before after doing the
bodywork myself but the paint did always fade after about 3 years.
Pauld
Steve Stimson
>
> As long as we're talking about paint, I have a slightly
>different question: I have a 12 year old Honda with 150K on it
>that still runs great, but it's starting to get little rust spots
>in various places. According to the dealer (and general talk on
>the net), it's possible that it might go as much as another 50K,
>which would be 4 more years.
>
> I don't care what it looks like, but I'd like to slow the rust
>down a little if I can. I was thinking of just brushing some
>Rustoleum on it. Any reason I shouldn't? Would it be better to
>use a spraycan? I'm assuming that painting whole panels would
>look better than spot touch-ups.
>
it paints on and bonds directly to the rusted steel. I have had great luck
with it. It is sold mostly mail order - advertized in Hemmings Motor News.
There is a company in Delaware - Maintenance Specialties - that sells it with
free UPS shipping. I have painted over quite a bit of rust with it and have
never had it re-appear.
The paint is worth it, but I don't know if it is possible to get a rice burner
to stop rusting....
DON NELSON
If you care that your car looks like an appolossa then you can buy a can
of EXTEND and paint it on the rust spots. It will seal the rust, turn black,
which indicated that it is working and can then be painted over. EXTEND will
do the job by stopping the rust. I use it a lot on rim etc. I have also
painted frames and others area to stop rust this way.
I>good, but a "real" paint job would cost more than the car is
Mike Panzitta
>>
>> As long as we're talking about paint, I have a slightly
>>different question: I have a 12 year old Honda with 150K on it
>>that still runs great, but it's starting to get little rust spots
>>in various places. According to the dealer (and general talk on
>>the net), it's possible that it might go as much as another 50K,
>>which would be 4 more years.
I've got an '85 Prelude with 230K on it and am just starting to get some
rust spots on the rear driver's side panel. I sanded the spots down to
where there is clean bare metal and used a rust-bonding paint. A little
more sanding, some touch-up paint, and rubbing compound and I'll be set.
I'm expecting to get to over 300K before my 'lude gives out!
Best of luck!
-Mike