Ford E4OD transmission problems and questions
Bruce
I'm new to the group so I apologize in advance if this has already been
covered.
I have a 91 Ford F250 with 7.4 L V8 and E4OD transmission that has
recently developed an annoying shudder when down shifting from OD to
3rd, typically when going up a grade. The shudder only occurs under an
"easy" downshift (light throttle) , as opposed to a hard downshift
(heavy throttle). The truck has 84K miles, original trans was replaced
for similiar symtoms at 24K miles. At 60K I had my friendly Ford
dealer replace the tranny fluid. The service did not drop the pan,
rather disconnected the tranny cooling lines and pumped fluid in and out
with these lines. The dealer told me this was "better" because it
replaced the fluid in the torque converter as well. The dealer also
told me that they don't drop the pan and clean/replace the filter
because they never find anything in there. I know I should have told
them to do it anyway but that's history now.
When they did the service on the tranny it was overfilled - it's about
2-3 hash mark lengths above the top of the hash mark area on the dip
stick. Assuming the hash mark area represents 1 pint it's about 2-3
pints overfilled. Question - is it possible or probable the overfilling
is a factor in my current problems. The Ford service manual I have
indicates overfilling can cause foaming and low pressure. Two mechanics
(friends) I spoke with also mentioned low pressure can cause the tranny
to fail.
My questions:
1. Is the shuddering from the transmission or from the torque
converter?
2. If the problem is caused or related to the overfilling from the
tranny service what is the best approach with Ford to get them to pick
up the repair tab, or at least subsidize it?
3. What price range am I looking at to get it fixed?
and in case #2 doesn't work out:
4. Anybody have any recommendations for a good, honest, reliable
transmission repair facility in San Diego?
Thanks in advance
Bruce
BACKNCARDR
>From: Bruce bp12...@ncr.com
>Date: 3/28/00 1:30 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <38E1245E...@ncr.com>
Bruce:
Overfilling that E40D is commonly done to prevent starvation. I have seen the
dipsticks for those have the calibrations off by 2-3 quarts. You want the full
mark right at the pan rail-observed with the pan removed. It just may well be
if that pan was removed there may be clutch material laying in it from the
shudder. Two things you can do is have that trans checked for pressure rise to
make sure it has enough to keep the clutches firmly engaged. Also the computer
has probly been upgraded at least 4 or 5 times to correct conditions like this.
Normally the computer is upgraded whenever a rebuilt is installed. Since you
mention the shudder happened before with the former transmission-at a rather
low mileage-chances are the computer wasn't upgraded to the newest revision.
Also the MPLS switch on the driver's side manual shaft may not have been
upgraded as well-this is a must as it can cause all kinds of drivability
problems. Yes it looks like a neutral safety switch but its much more important
than that as it feeds back logic to the computer. You also may have fault codes
stored in memory-but not necessarily. You can try a bottle of red Lubeguard
friction modifier to see if that will help/cure the shudder, but I would get
that
pan off and look inside and cut that filter open to see if any junk in it. If
it passes-then take it to trans shop in yer area. Look in the yellow pages for
an ATRA shop. Right now you dont want to know what that trans would cost to
rebuild so do the investigative stuff first and always git second opinions in
matter$ of this sort. One last thing-I cannot agree that not changing a filter
and merely doing a fluid exchange is the way to go with these electronic
transmissions particularly and for any other. One simply needs to know if any
impending doom is occuring by seeing what is in the pan and filter if anything.
Respectifully,
Loren Knighton
Woodland, CA.
dbug
>Hello:
>
>I'm new to the group so I apologize in advance if this has already been
>covered.
>
>I have a 91 Ford F250 with 7.4 L V8 and E4OD transmission that has
>recently developed an annoying shudder when down shifting from OD to
>3rd, typically when going up a grade. The shudder only occurs under an
>"easy" downshift (light throttle) , as opposed to a hard downshift
>(heavy throttle). The truck has 84K miles, original trans was replaced
>for similiar symtoms at 24K miles. At 60K I had my friendly Ford
>dealer replace the tranny fluid. The service did not drop the pan,
>rather disconnected the tranny cooling lines and pumped fluid in and out
>with these lines. The dealer told me this was "better" because it
>replaced the fluid in the torque converter as well. The dealer also
>told me that they don't drop the pan and clean/replace the filter
>because they never find anything in there. I know I should have told
>them to do it anyway but that's history now.
With this trans, I do not like the flush method. This trans has a
torque converter drain plug that gets all of the fluid from there.
The only reason to do this flush routine is in units not equipped with
a drain plug. With the flush process you are mixing old and new fluid
to a certain extent. The mixing of old and new fluid is reduced as
much as possible when you drain all of the fluid BEFORE introducing
new fluid.
>
>When they did the service on the tranny it was overfilled - it's about
>2-3 hash mark lengths above the top of the hash mark area on the dip
>stick. Assuming the hash mark area represents 1 pint it's about 2-3
>pints overfilled. Question - is it possible or probable the overfilling
>is a factor in my current problems. The Ford service manual I have
>indicates overfilling can cause foaming and low pressure. Two mechanics
>(friends) I spoke with also mentioned low pressure can cause the tranny
>to fail.
>
>My questions:
>1. Is the shuddering from the transmission or from the torque
>converter?
The shudder you describe is quite common in the E4OD when the fluid
becomes degraded. Mine started that again for the third time a couple
of weeks back. For the third time in the past 130K miles, a complete
fluid and filter service returned it to like-new operation.
>2. If the problem is caused or related to the overfilling from the
>tranny service what is the best approach with Ford to get them to pick
>up the repair tab, or at least subsidize it?
Overfilling up to 1 or 2 qts is not usually a problem in this trans.
It will usually kick out the excess. The biggest problem is excess
leakage from the front seal.
>3. What price range am I looking at to get it fixed?
>and in case #2 doesn't work out:
The best thing to do without spending big bucks is to get a complete
fluid and filter service before you panic and go overboard. Have the
shop remove the pan and change the filter. Make sure you use the
correct filter. A 2 wheel drive filter in a 4 wheel drive trans is a
no-no. Have them to also pull the plug from the torque converter to
drain it completely. There is an access plug in the bottom of the
bell housing. Rotate the engine by hand ( a large socket and breaker
bar on the damper bolt turned clockwise) until you can remove the 1/8"
pipe plug. The torque converter holds 8-10 qts of fluid. When you
refill the trans, add 2 bottles of Lube Gard (brand name only). I am
not affiliated with them in any way but, have found this to be the
only additive I have ever tried that did exactly what it claimed.
Also, be sure to use a good quality name brand fluid in the trans.
Again, having tried several, I like the Texaco fluid better than most
but, most any name brand so do the job.
>4. Anybody have any recommendations for a good, honest, reliable
>transmission repair facility in San Diego?
Sorry, can't help with that. You can do this job yourself with a
large container to catch the oil from the large oil pan. The filter
and gasket will cost you about $20 at a good parts house. The Lube
Gard will set you back about $20 wholesale or about $35 retail. You
may have to find a trans parts specialty house for this. I am sure
they exist around SD. You will need to empty your large pan before
draining the torque converter. The only tools needed are a 10mm
socket, ratchet and short extension to removed the trans pan. There
are no adjustments to be made as they are all pre-set non-adjustable.
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Bruce
BTW, the shudder you are getting is the clutch in the torque
converter. You will get this condition only during torque converter
lockup in 3 and 4 gears in most cases although it can happen in 1 and
2. Mine got so bad the drive shaft would ring like a bell when it
shuddered.
Good luck. If this doesn't help, you are only out less than $75. If
it cures the problem as it probably will, you have saved a good $1500.
Frank
flushes any sediment in the cooler back wards threw the valve body causing
valve to stick
resulting in trans failer
.
"BACKNCARDR" <backn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000328171007...@ng-dc1.aol.com...
> >Subject: Ford E4OD transmission problems and questions
> >From: Bruce bp12...@ncr.com
> >Date: 3/28/00 1:30 PM Pacific Standard Time
> >Message-id: <38E1245E...@ncr.com>
> >
> >Hello:
> >
> >I'm new to the group so I apologize in advance if this has already been
> >covered.
> >
> >I have a 91 Ford F250 with 7.4 L V8 and E4OD transmission that has
> >recently developed an annoying shudder when down shifting from OD to
> >3rd, typically when going up a grade. The shudder only occurs under an
> >"easy" downshift (light throttle) , as opposed to a hard downshift
> >(heavy throttle). The truck has 84K miles, original trans was replaced
> >for similiar symtoms at 24K miles. At 60K I had my friendly Ford
> >dealer replace the tranny fluid. The service did not drop the pan,
> >rather disconnected the tranny cooling lines and pumped fluid in and out
> >with these lines. The dealer told me this was "better" because it
> >replaced the fluid in the torque converter as well. The dealer also
> >told me that they don't drop the pan and clean/replace the filter
> >because they never find anything in there. I know I should have told
> >them to do it anyway but that's history now.
> >
> >When they did the service on the tranny it was overfilled - it's about
> >2-3 hash mark lengths above the top of the hash mark area on the dip
> >stick. Assuming the hash mark area represents 1 pint it's about 2-3
> >pints overfilled. Question - is it possible or probable the overfilling
> >is a factor in my current problems. The Ford service manual I have
> >indicates overfilling can cause foaming and low pressure. Two mechanics
> >(friends) I spoke with also mentioned low pressure can cause the tranny
> >to fail.
> >
> >My questions:
> >1. Is the shuddering from the transmission or from the torque
> >converter?
> >2. If the problem is caused or related to the overfilling from the
> >tranny service what is the best approach with Ford to get them to pick
> >up the repair tab, or at least subsidize it?
> >3. What price range am I looking at to get it fixed?
> >and in case #2 doesn't work out:
> >4. Anybody have any recommendations for a good, honest, reliable
> >transmission repair facility in San Diego?
> >
Bruce
I will be changing the fluid **and** filter to see if this improves the
situation.
One other question - Gale Banks makes a Trans Command module that supposedly
improves shifting on E40D's, especially when towing. In light of the fact
that my stock trans module is probably a few revs behind I am considering
ordering the Banks unit. Can anyone tell me if it is worth the
investment? Last time I checked it was about $250 for the unit.
dbug
>Thanks for the informative replies - you guys are great!.
>
>I will be changing the fluid **and** filter to see if this improves the
>situation.
>
>One other question - Gale Banks makes a Trans Command module that supposedly
>improves shifting on E40D's, especially when towing. In light of the fact
>that my stock trans module is probably a few revs behind I am considering
>ordering the Banks unit. Can anyone tell me if it is worth the
>investment? Last time I checked it was about $250 for the unit.`
Banks stuff is usually pretty good but, if you do any modifications
while you are changing the fluid, you should install the late style
OEM solenoid pack which improves the pressures and shifting over the
early OEM. It is an easy DIY swap while you have the pan off to
change the fluid. You should be able to pick up a new pack at any
transmission parts supply house. You might want to try Transtar
transmission parts. I'm sure others may be close to you in SD. If
you ever have the trans rebuilt, ask them to install a Superior brand
shift kit in the valve body and pump. This will greatly improve the
operation and reliability of the trans along with all the other
updates it should have when rebuilt. Again, make sure you drain the
torque converter when you service the trans - half or more of the
total volume of fluid used by the trans is in the converter.
Stuart Hastings
>Banks stuff is usually pretty good but, if you do any modifications
>while you are changing the fluid, you should install the late style
>OEM solenoid pack which improves the pressures and shifting over the
>early OEM. It is an easy DIY swap while you have the pan off to
>change the fluid. You should be able to pick up a new pack at any
>transmission parts supply house. You might want to try Transtar
>transmission parts.
What year did FORD switch over to the "new-style" solenoid pack?
>I'm sure others may be close to you in SD. If
>you ever have the trans rebuilt, ask them to install a Superior brand
>shift kit in the valve body and pump. This will greatly improve the
>operation and reliability of the trans along with all the other
>updates it should have when rebuilt.
...
What is/does the Superior Shift kit?
Thanks in advance,
stuart hastings
dbug
Hastings) wrote:
>...
>>Banks stuff is usually pretty good but, if you do any modifications
>>while you are changing the fluid, you should install the late style
>>OEM solenoid pack which improves the pressures and shifting over the
>>early OEM. It is an easy DIY swap while you have the pan off to
>>change the fluid. You should be able to pick up a new pack at any
>>transmission parts supply house. You might want to try Transtar
>>transmission parts.
>
>What year did FORD switch over to the "new-style" solenoid pack?
I believe the latest solenoid pack is the '96 version for the older
E4's.
>
>>I'm sure others may be close to you in SD. If
>>you ever have the trans rebuilt, ask them to install a Superior brand
>>shift kit in the valve body and pump. This will greatly improve the
>>operation and reliability of the trans along with all the other
>>updates it should have when rebuilt.
>...
>
>What is/does the Superior Shift kit?
The Superior kit is a brand of shift kit like a B&M or TransGo for
other transmissions. TransGo BTW does make a kit for this trans. I
hav e tried both and find the Superior kit more to my liking. Anyway,
the kit includes springs and instructions for correcting a couple of
problems known in the E4OD and alter it's shift performance to the
firmer side in various stages to your taste. The pump portion of
either kit cannot be installed without removing the trans and pulling
the pump to upgrade it's regulator springs. This kit with it's
recommended modifications improves not only the performance of the
trans but, corrects the problem the E4 occasionally has when it cuts
off lubrication to the front section under some operating conditions.
maste...@gmail.com
Kevin Bottorff
news:48c8df2e-9475-43ce...@googlegroups.com:
> I have a 1995 ford 4×4 with the e4od tranny. It will go in reverse
> but not the forward gears. What could the problem be?
>
lots of trany experiance there. KB