Lifter "ticking"...what to do?
Larry Bouthillier
I just bought a 1990 Chrysler LeBaron Coupe, with a 3.0 V6. It's got
103k miles on it, but the price was right!
When the engine is dead cold, there is a rather loud ticking from a
lifter or valve. After a few minutes, once the oil is circulating, this
goes away.
What might I do to alleviate the noise and the wear that must be going
on while it's making noise? Is something like Slick50 a solution, or
even a wise additive to use on a high-miles engine? Any advice would be
appreciated! Thanks,
Larry
lar...@argo.net
Moshe Berger/auto tech.
Change the oil and put in 10W30.Add a can of CD-2 lifter cleaner and
sludge remover.Run it like this for 1000 miles.Then change the oil
again and use 10W30 or 10W40 in the summer.You may need to repeat the
first step one more time to be rid of this problem...moshe
Otto Matheke
Larry Bouthillier wrote:
>
> I just bought a 1990 Chrysler LeBaron Coupe, with a 3.0 V6. It's got
> 103k miles on it, but the price was right!
>
> When the engine is dead cold, there is a rather loud ticking from a
> lifter or valve. After a few minutes, once the oil is circulating, this
> goes away.
>
> What might I do to alleviate the noise and the wear that must be going
> on while it's making noise? Is something like Slick50 a solution, or
> even a wise additive to use on a high-miles engine? Any advice would be
> appreciated! Thanks,
>
> Larry
> lar...@argo.net
I am assuming that your crankcase is full and is filled with a recent
vintage lubricant of the proper viscosity. You probably have a lazy
lifter which does not get enough oil until the engine has warmed the oil
to the point it can flow into the lifter.
Depending on how loud it is, it might be normal. If it does not seem
normal to an experienced ear, then you have dying or partially clogged
lifter. You can try to flush some of the crap out by buying an engine
flush solution (do they have Pep Boys in Cambridge?) and using it or by
doing freguent oil changes with Marvel Mystery oil in place of your last
pint of oil. The problem with either of these is that you have no idea
what the inside of this motor looks like and with this many miles you
run this risk of flushing large chunks of sludge loose so they plug up
the oil feed to something a little more critical (like the main
bearings).
Others may differ, but if it was my car I would try to live with it
unless it really is ugly. If that is not an option, you can try
frequent
oil changes or the Marvel Mystery Oil. Both of these are going to be a
pain and not guaranteed to do any good.
Slick 50, in my opinion, is snake oil. Others I know and respect use
it.
Either way, it aint no detergent or solvent and would not address your
problem.
omat...@nhtsa.dot.gov
The foregoing is an expression of my personal opinions and beliefs and
is neither sponsored, endorsed or accepted by the National Highway
Traffic Safety Administration or the Department of Transportation. No
purchase neccessary. Void where prohibited by law. --
Otto Matheke
omat...@nhtsa.dot.gov
All statements or opinions offered above are my own and not those of the
National Highway
Traffic Safety Administration, the Department of Transportation, or the
United States
Government (which was foolish enough to give me e-mail capability)
Timothy Goddard (Hampshire RHS 97)
In a previous article, lar...@hbs.edu (Larry Bouthillier) says:
>I just bought a 1990 Chrysler LeBaron Coupe, with a 3.0 V6. It's got
>103k miles on it, but the price was right!
>
>When the engine is dead cold, there is a rather loud ticking from a
>lifter or valve. After a few minutes, once the oil is circulating, this
>goes away.
>
>What might I do to alleviate the noise and the wear that must be going
>on while it's making noise? Is something like Slick50 a solution, or
>even a wise additive to use on a high-miles engine? Any advice would be
>appreciated! Thanks,
>
>Larry
>lar...@argo.net
>
AARRGGHHH!!! let me re-iterate..AARRGGHHH!!! slick 50 is never a solution.
it does not help and has never been proven to do anything helpful. Its been
hit with false advertisement suits up the ying yang. since all it does is
clog oil passages and the oil pick up and starve the engine of oil.
anyway, the noise is a hydraulic lifter. Hydraulic lifters are supposed to
take up the slack in the system as one of their benefits. this lifter(s)
must need the extra time to break in each time you start up to work
properly. now.. why is it doing that? i'm not exactly sure so any of you
hydraulic lifter gurus can help out from here.
--
"Finding one's ideal friend can take a lifetime so
live it up with the ones you have" by me
Sumo Rabbit
On Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:48:53 GMT, tgod...@k12.oit.umass.edu (Timothy
Goddard (Hampshire RHS 97)) wrote:
>
>In a previous article, lar...@hbs.edu (Larry Bouthillier) says:
>
>>I just bought a 1990 Chrysler LeBaron Coupe, with a 3.0 V6. It's got
>>103k miles on it, but the price was right!
>>
>>When the engine is dead cold, there is a rather loud ticking from a
>>lifter or valve. After a few minutes, once the oil is circulating, this
>>goes away.
This is an important detail you'll need to get. Either the valve is
slightly out of adjustment (which quiets itself when the car is
warm/oil starts flowing), or you've got a hydraulic lifter about to go
bye bye. Considering the mileage on your motor, it could be either
situation.
>>What might I do to alleviate the noise and the wear that must be going
>>on while it's making noise? Is something like Slick50 a solution, or
>>even a wise additive to use on a high-miles engine? Any advice would be
>>appreciated! Thanks,
Additives are NEVER the solution for a mechanical part that is either
out of adjustment or on the verge of failure.
>anyway, the noise is a hydraulic lifter. Hydraulic lifters are supposed to
>take up the slack in the system as one of their benefits. this lifter(s)
>must need the extra time to break in each time you start up to work
>properly. now.. why is it doing that? i'm not exactly sure so any of you
>hydraulic lifter gurus can help out from here.
Either the valvetrain is out of adjustment (I don't know if you still
adjust for valve lash anymore, the last lifter job I did on a car was
on a 60's era small block chevy.) or the lifter is failing. If it's
the former, it's an easy fix to tighten down to the correct setting.
If it's the latter, REPLACE THE LIFTERS. A failed lifter can
immobilize a car until it's repaired, so you might as well fix it now
if that's the problem.
Another (small, very small) possibility is that the lifter was already
replaced, and was incorrectly primed. If this is the case, pull them
out, reprime them, and put them back in. (BE SURE YOU PUT EACH LIFTER
BACK WHERE YOU PULLED IT FROM)
Good luck, and happy motoring,
Andy
****
This address has been altered to foil name-harvesting spambots.
Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) is neither desired or welcome
at this site. Remove the (NO.JUNK.EMAIL) to reply.
Larry Bouthillier
Thanks very much to all who took the time to reply. I do appreciate it.
Most folks that responded here and in email agree that an additive like
Slick50 is not going to help. Most also recommended, as a first resort,
trying a cleaner like CD2 and lightweight motor oil. It's also clear
that there's an underlying mechanical issue that probably isn't serious
enough to have to fix, but bears watching.
As an aside, my mechanic who checked over the car before I bought it
didn't seem to concerned about the ticking noise, so I don't think it's
serious. It's just annoying!
Thanks again,
Larry
fizz
In article <1997Mar11.2...@k12.oit.umass.edu>, tgod...@k12.oit.umass.edu (Timothy Goddard (Hampshire RHS 97)) says:
>
>
>In a previous article, lar...@hbs.edu (Larry Bouthillier) says:
>
>>I just bought a 1990 Chrysler LeBaron Coupe, with a 3.0 V6. It's got
>>103k miles on it, but the price was right!
>>
>>When the engine is dead cold, there is a rather loud ticking from a
>>lifter or valve. After a few minutes, once the oil is circulating, this
>>goes away.
>>
>>on while it's making noise? Is something like Slick50 a solution, or
>>even a wise additive to use on a high-miles engine? Any advice would be
>>appreciated! Thanks,
>>
>>lar...@argo.net
>>
>
>AARRGGHHH!!! let me re-iterate..AARRGGHHH!!! slick 50 is never a solution.
>it does not help and has never been proven to do anything helpful. Its been
>hit with false advertisement suits up the ying yang. since all it does is
>clog oil passages and the oil pick up and starve the engine of oil.
>
>take up the slack in the system as one of their benefits. this lifter(s)
>must need the extra time to break in each time you start up to work
>properly. now.. why is it doing that? i'm not exactly sure so any of you
>hydraulic lifter gurus can help out from here.
fizz
In article <1997Mar11.2...@k12.oit.umass.edu>, tgod...@k12.oit.umass.edu (Timothy Goddard (Hampshire RHS 97)) says:
>
>
>In a previous article, lar...@hbs.edu (Larry Bouthillier) says:
>
>>I just bought a 1990 Chrysler LeBaron Coupe, with a 3.0 V6. It's got
>>1
>take up the slack in the system as one of their benefits. this lifter(s)
>must need the extra time to break in each time you start up to work
>properly. now.. why is it doing that? i'm not exactly sure so any of you
>hydraulic lifter gurus can help out from here.
>--
>"Finding one's ideal friend can take a lifetime so
>live it up with the ones you have" by me
the vehicle sits for awhile. If you suspect this, pull filter after it has
sat over night. If it`s empty, go get a filter with an anti back flow
valve. Another clue is an oil light or gauge that takes too long to work
on startup. No, the "A" on Fram`s filter didn`t mean anti back flow.
I had to get one that actually did have a good anti back flow design.
No, it wasn`t Wix either. I found this one at Kragan of all places.
It`s distributed from Phoenix,Ariz. LEE
Andy Moss
Timothy Goddard (Hampshire RHS 97) wrote:
>
> In a previous article, lar...@hbs.edu (Larry Bouthillier) says:
>
> >I just bought a 1990 Chrysler LeBaron Coupe, with a 3.0 V6. It's got
> >
> >When the engine is dead cold, there is a rather loud ticking from a
> >lifter or valve. After a few minutes, once the oil is circulating, this
> >goes away.
> >
> >What might I do to alleviate the noise and the wear that must be going
> >on while it's making noise? Is something like Slick50 a solution, or
> >even a wise additive to use on a high-miles engine? Any advice would be
> >appreciated! Thanks,
> >
> >Larry
> >lar...@argo.net
> >
>
> AARRGGHHH!!! let me re-iterate..AARRGGHHH!!! slick 50 is never a solution.
> it does not help and has never been proven to do anything helpful. Its been
> hit with false advertisement suits up the ying yang. since all it does is
I concur.
> anyway, the noise is a hydraulic lifter. Hydraulic lifters are supposed to
> take up the slack in the system as one of their benefits. this lifter(s)
> must need the extra time to break in each time you start up to work
> properly. now.. why is it doing that? i'm not exactly sure so any of you
> hydraulic lifter gurus can help out from here.
I would suggest pouring in some GM Engine Oil Supplement. It seems to
work
like a champ at freeing up ticking lifters. I used a can a year in my
'79 V6 Olds and it works through several oil changes.
That Wynns, STP and Kmart stuff is just a useless thinner.
If your engine is really bad, you can drain all the oil out and fill the
crank-
case with varsol. Pull the spark plug wires off and crank it
vigoroulsly for
a few seconds. Repeat every ten minutes for half and hour or so. Then
drain
off the varsol and let the engine sit with the oil plug out and the
filler
cap open overnight. Re-fill with oil and change that after a couple of
hundred
miles.
Be advised this is pretty radical stuff and I wouldn't do this unless
everything
else has failed. However, I know one person whose done it many times
with
different AMC products. All attempts were successful.
Cheers
--
Andy Moss
"In God we trust - the rest can pay cash......."
Craig Keener
Andy Moss wrote:
> I would suggest pouring in some GM Engine Oil Supplement. It seems to
> work like a champ at freeing up ticking lifters. <snip>
Another effective product is Stewart-Warners CD-2 Oil Detergent.
For really-bad lifters I'd recommend changing the oil + filter,
refilling with a straight 30-weight oil (given the right climate), then
adding two 15oz cans in place of the final quart. After 1000-1250 miles
change the oil and repeat the process if needed.
I would then add one can with the next two or three normal oil
changes. This process is quite effective.
-Craig
JBlessing
Before throwing a set of lifters at it be advised there is a TSB for this
concerning burrs on the rocker arms. Send me all pertinent info by email
for a copy of the TSB if you want it.
--
Jordan Blessing L1 Master Tech
In article <332A23...@ibm.net>, and...@ibm.net says...
>I would suggest pouring in some GM Engine Oil Supplement. It seems to
>work
>like a champ at freeing up ticking lifters. I used a can a year in my
>'79 V6 Olds and it works through several oil changes.
>
>That Wynns, STP and Kmart stuff is just a useless thinner.
>
>If your engine is really bad, you can drain all the oil out and fill the
>crank-
>case with varsol. Pull the spark plug wires off and crank it
>vigoroulsly for
>a few seconds. Repeat every ten minutes for half and hour or so. Then
>drain
>off the varsol and let the engine sit with the oil plug out and the
>filler
>cap open overnight. Re-fill with oil and change that after a couple of
>hundred
>miles.
>
>Be advised this is pretty radical stuff and I wouldn't do this unless
>everything
>else has failed. However, I know one person whose done it many times
>with
>different AMC products. All attempts were successful.
>
>Cheers
>
>--
>Andy Moss
>"In God we trust - the rest can pay cash......."
--
Jordan Blessing L1 Master Tech
David S. Weir
Larry Bouthillier wrote:
>
> I just bought a 1990 Chrysler LeBaron Coupe, with a 3.0 V6. It's got
> 103k miles on it, but the price was right!
>
> When the engine is dead cold, there is a rather loud ticking from a
> lifter or valve. After a few minutes, once the oil is circulating, this
> goes away.
>
> What might I do to alleviate the noise and the wear that must be going
> on while it's making noise? Is something like Slick50 a solution, or
> even a wise additive to use on a high-miles engine? Any advice would be
> appreciated! Thanks,
>
> Larry
> lar...@argo.net
I am no expert with this type of problem, but have had the same type of
problem in a 1971 Olds Cutlass. I used a pint of Marvels mystery oil in
the crankcase with the regular oil and it quieted the lifter down. It
tends to clean out the oil orifices in the lifters. Won't hurt either
way.
BELJAN E
In <3967...@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> luc...@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Richard C
Lucas) writes:
>
>The hydraulic lifter has an internal spring which causes the lifter to
>lengthen enough to take up all the slack in the valve train when the
valve
>is closed. It is full of oil and there is a check valve in the lifter
itself
>which prevents the lifter from compressing when the intake/exhaust
valve is
>in the open position.
>
>These check valves can get either a bit of varnish or dirt stuck in
them
>which allows them to leak down. When the engine stops, some of the
intake
>or exhaust valves are in the open position which can compresses the
lifter.
>This lifter is now shorter and introduces some slack which manifests
itself
>as the "ticking" you hear. When the engine is started, this lifter
gradually
>fills with oil, and if the leak in the check valve isn't too great,
the
>ticking goes away until either the engine is stopped or the dirt is
flushed out.
>
>Often, you can add a high detergency product to the oil which will
free the
>check valve and fix the ticking. There are several products on the
market
>which have the words "lifter" or "free" in their names. Another thing
you
>can do is add a quart of ATF (auto trans fluid) and run the engine for
>50 miles or so and then change the oil. ATF is a very high degergency
oil.
Marvel Mystery Oil or Rislone are good for that application and are not
all that expensive. Besides, you can leave them in your engine for a
while too to clean better.
Richard C Lucas
The hydraulic lifter has an internal spring which causes the lifter to
lengthen enough to take up all the slack in the valve train when the valve
is closed. It is full of oil and there is a check valve in the lifter itself
which prevents the lifter from compressing when the intake/exhaust valve is
in the open position.
These check valves can get either a bit of varnish or dirt stuck in them
which allows them to leak down. When the engine stops, some of the intake
or exhaust valves are in the open position which can compresses the lifter.
This lifter is now shorter and introduces some slack which manifests itself
as the "ticking" you hear. When the engine is started, this lifter gradually
fills with oil, and if the leak in the check valve isn't too great, the
ticking goes away until either the engine is stopped or the dirt is flushed out.
Often, you can add a high detergency product to the oil which will free the
check valve and fix the ticking. There are several products on the market
which have the words "lifter" or "free" in their names. Another thing you
can do is add a quart of ATF (auto trans fluid) and run the engine for
50 miles or so and then change the oil. ATF is a very high degergency oil.
Dick Lucas
Craig Keener
Richard C Lucas wrote:
>
> which have the words "lifter" or "free" in their names. Another thing
> you can do is add a quart of ATF (auto trans fluid) and run the engine
> for 50 miles or so and then change the oil. ATF is a very high
> degergency oil.
Where did you get that foolish idea?? over the years I had
heard of well meaning (albeit ignorant) individuals recommending such
use of ATF, and always wondered where they got this crazy notion.
For the record, ATF has far less detergent than motor oil, and
it has almost no lubrication ability when used in the crankcase
of an IC engine. You would be better off adding plain kerosene to your
oil....and no, I don't recommend that either unless you plan on throwing
an early retirement party for the engine.
If a professional tech EVER recommends that you use ATF in your
oil you need to quickly run in the opposite direction. Then do all of
your friends and family a big favor and advise them to steer clear of
his shop.
For sticking lifters stay with a product such as CD-2 oil
detergent additive, or GM's engine oil supplement.
-Craig
Clarence Snyder
On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 08:15:17 -0500, Craig Keener <cke...@ziplink.net>
wrote:
I beg to differ, Craig. It DOES work. Remember, he said to run it a
maximum of 50 miles. I have often solved the problem within 15 minutes
of idling. I agree the Casite or EOS is better, but the ATF CAN do the
trick. It is extremely good at disolving certain deposits in an
engine, and leaves metal parts clean - detergency or not. I will not
argue about it's lubrication properties long-term in an engine, but it
sure loosens carbon and varnish in an engine. This is due to the
solvent characteristics, not detergency. Detergency is the ability to
suspend the junk in the oil after it is removed from the surface.
When changing head gaskets I ALWAYS flood the rings with ATF and crank
the engine over several times to remove any traces of Glycol from the
rings and Cyl walls before starting the engine. I have never had an
oil-burning problem start after a gasket change, even on cars that
generally have the problem. I have been doing it for over 20 years, as
a professional mechanic. My reputation has been very good, as my
results were always consistantly excellent.
As for Kersene, It's been used many times in the past, with good
results, but I would not use it in today's engines.
Snyder Enterprises
Appropriate Technology for the Information Age
Waterloo Ontario.
To reply please drop the r, and send to :
cls...@ibm.net
Too many misdirected replies plugging my mail box!!!
BELJAN E
In <33373668....@news2.ibm.net> clsn...@Ibm.net (Clarence
Only thing I would use is something designed for an engine, I would NOT
use ATF in an engine. I wouldnt take the risk. I say Marvel Mystery Oil
would be my first choice, it stops noisy lifters faster than anything I
have ever seen before. Then after that Rislone, because it seems to
work OK too. Then, Wynn's Friction Proofing, because I have also used
it before. After all that, then I would take more drastic measures, not
ATF, or Kerosene, but I would repair the problem, not try additives.
fizz
In article <333289...@ziplink.net>, Craig Keener <cke...@ziplink.net> says:
>
>Richard C Lucas wrote:
>>
>> which have the words "lifter" or "free" in their names. Another thing
>> you can do is add a quart of ATF (auto trans fluid) and run the engine
>> for 50 miles or so and then change the oil. ATF is a very high
>> degergency oil.
>
>
> Where did you get that foolish idea?? over the years I had
>heard of well meaning (albeit ignorant) individuals recommending such
>use of ATF, and always wondered where they got this crazy notion.
>
> For the record, ATF has far less detergent than motor oil, and
>it has almost no lubrication ability when used in the crankcase
>of an IC engine. You would be better off adding plain kerosene to your
>oil....and no, I don't recommend that either unless you plan on throwing
>an early retirement party for the engine.
>
> If a professional tech EVER recommends that you use ATF in your
>oil you need to quickly run in the opposite direction. Then do all of
>your friends and family a big favor and advise them to steer clear of
>his shop.
>
> For sticking lifters stay with a product such as CD-2 oil
>detergent additive, or GM's engine oil supplement.
>
>-Craig
worked quite well as the lifter noise went away. Don`t leave this
stuff in the engine too long as it is VERY detergent. I was stupid
enough to use STP (oil burner) . The STP clogged several lifters
The Rislone saved my butt for awhile. But, the engine had 250k
mi. on it and had to be rebuilt some 400 mi later. LEE