On 18/9/2023 11:20 pm, 😎 Mighty Wannabe ✅ wrote:
> On 9/18/2023 5:04 AM, Xeno wrote:
>> On 18/9/2023 1:27 pm, micky wrote:
>>> I saw today what I think was a Subaru BRZ. Very pretty car (for a
>>> sedan) but what made it unusual were the wheels. All 4 were splayed.
>>> Isn't that the word when the bottoms of the wheels are farther from
>>> center than the tops. I'm not talking about camber or caster or what
>>> ever. These wheels looked like the whole ccar had been dropped 20 feet
>>> and some of the parts holding the wheels in place had broken.
>>> The driver said they were supposed to be like this, but the pictures
>>> I've found on line have wheels like all the other cars.
>>> This is a joint development with Toyota that calls it the 86 when they
>>> sell/sold it.
>>> Okay, it is camber, negative camber.
>>> Still this one was so extreme, and all 4 wheels.
>> Yep, extreme negative camber and, in terms of handling, it's all
>> negative - no benefit.
> You are just like the British simpleton "Commander Kinsey" with no
> knowledge in Physics (or anything else).
> All Formula One race cars have negative camber on all four tires.
Approx. 3 degrees negative at the front and between 0 and 1 degrees
negative at the rear. You won't visually see 1 degree of negative
camber. The front suspension changes in load under cornering will
increase or decrease camber by up to 5 degrees, the unloaded inner wheel
typically losing camber and becoming vertical whilst the outer wheel
will increase negative camber under cornering forces. The increase in
cornering forces places pressure on tyre sidewalls so that the tread
sits *flat* on the road. At the rear, traction is more important so less
negative camber is the order of the day. As well, rear tyres are
typically wider so too much negative camber will cause a *loss* in the
tyre contact area because the tyre will be running on and contacting on
only one side of the tread.
> The centrifugal force created when a race car is cornering will try to
> flip the race car over. The centrifugal force acts on the centre of
> gravity of the race car, through the point at the centre of the tyres on
> the inner side of the turn, and the angle of the line connecting the
> centre of the tyres to the point of contact with the road surface.
Sounds impressive but irrelevant to the negative camber. Oh, and there's
no such an animal as centrifugal force. It's just a convenient fiction
to explain *forces* to numbnuts like yourself.
> For normal cars with zero camber, the centre of the tyres are vertically
> (90 degrees) above the road surface. If you can move that point of road
> contact point farther out, that will make it more difficult for the
> centrifugal force to flip the race car.
Please try to understand the effect a lateral arm suspension has on
camber under cornering.
> For simple minded Brits, just imagine when someone pushes you from the
> side when you are standing at attention (both legs closed). It won't
> take much to push you over. Now imagine someone pushes you from the side
> when you are standing with your legs four feet apart. That will be very
> difficult to push you over from the side.
Again, sounds impressive but irrelevant when referencing negative
camber. What you should be focused on is the vehicle's roll centre
versus G of G.
>> Stancing of that order is all about the look.
> You have a simple mind.
>> Personally, to me it looks utterly ridiculous. The look of a wanker!
> You are the utterly stupid wanker!
Now tell me that the car in the above link looks anything but
ridiculous? Sitting only on 50% or less of the tyre contact area and of
such a profile that, even with sidewall distortion, there's no hope of
ever getting 100% contact patch engagement so handling is *compromised*
at best and downright dangerous at worst.
>> Modern wide low profile radial tyres work best when camber is close to
>> zero. IOW, keep all of the tread flat on the road. Minimises tyre wear
> That's not good for racing, simpleton.
Then you clearly do not understand racing. The important factor in any
sort of car handling is tyre contact area and tyre slip angles. When you
understand those two factors, come back and discuss it further. Thus far
all you've been doing is throwing irrelevant bullshit into the mix.
Basically, that tells me you do not have a clue about vehicle handling
be it in racing or road use.
FWIW, I've done more car wheel alignments than you've had hot dinners.