senna autopsy?
Neil Poska
I have just heard that according to Argentinian television, Senna
apparently had a heart attack on the track, causing his crash. Has anyone
heard this? After thinking about it, I realized that no one had posted the
official autopsy report. If anyone has any information, please post it.
Also, my internet feed updates very slowly, so please do not flame me
if you are already discussing it.
Senna RIP 94
Mudcat
Joao de Souza
: I have just heard that according to Argentinian television, Senna
: apparently had a heart attack on the track, causing his crash. Has anyone
: heard this? After thinking about it, I realized that no one had posted the
: official autopsy report. If anyone has any information, please post it.
I have been reading all the Brazilian newspapers (in portuguese,
available at soc.culture.brazil), and there is no mention to that
in any of them. I'll keep you posted if there is (since not everyone
in this group can read portuguese).
: Senna RIP 94
: Mudcat
Joao de Souza - jds...@undp.org
Jiann-ming Su
about F1 being unsafe would go down the drain, except the pit lane thing.
Though, it doesn't make too much sense to me that Senna, who I'm sure would
have to be in top physical form, would suffer a heart attack.
Paul Smyth
>
> I have just heard that according to Argentinian television, Senna
>apparently had a heart attack on the track, causing his crash. Has anyone
>heard this? After thinking about it, I realized that no one had posted the
>official autopsy report. If anyone has any information, please post it.
>
Sounds quite coherent with all evidence we have seen so far- explaining
why he lifted off, didn't steer hardly at all, and maybe didn't
brace himself at all, making a bad accident much worse. I would like to
know more, if there are ANY details at all...
---
_________________________________________________________________
Paul Smyth, Dept of Medical BioPhysics, University of Manchester.
p...@wiau.mb.man.ac.uk, cu...@fim.uni-erlangen.de
_________________________________________________________________
Bob Mihalek
brake the car. In my other post, I suggest that he may have been
unconscious prior to going off. I don't want to jump to
conclusions or to say "hey, I'm right" but AS was too good
of a driver and I'm sure his reaction time was so fast, that the fact
that he had no response to going off just made me start thinking that
he
had passed out behind the wheel and then went off.
Bob Mihalek (mih...@phage.cshl.org)
Ray Foster
True, the classic heart attack (thrombosis, a coronary artery becoming clogged)
would be quite unusual in a person in his 30s in excellent condition. However,
heart failure due to a previously unknown congenital heart defect is not at all
unheard of among athletes. Apparently, being a athlete is a two-edged sword for
people like this: the fact that they are in exceptionally good condition makes
the heart stronger overall and may mask the defect. However, the extreme
physical stress they are often under during training and competition may make
them more susceptable to a catastrophic heart failure. (Just think of those
160+ pulse readings that we've seen from drivers wearing a heart monitor.)
Just to put some names to this: Bastekball player Pete Maravich died on the
court of heart failure--it was several years after he retired, but by all
accounts he was still in excellent condition. Boxer Evander Holyfield was
recently forced to retire because a heart problem was discovered after he
experienced chest pains during his most recent fight. I also seem to remember a
famous long-distance runner (Jim Fixx?) who died of a heart attack a few years
ago. There have been others, but you get the idea.
I'm not suggesting that's what happened to Senna: only the people who did the
autopsy could know that. Just don't rule it out solely because of his age &
conditioning.
Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on the net, but heart disease
runs in my family, and I'm in my 30s too, so I have a vested interest in the
topic.
rwf
--
Raymond W. Foster Internet: fos...@indiana.edu
Music Instructional Services Bitnet: fosterr@indiana
School of Music Phone: (812) 855-1803, 855-9023
Indiana University, Bloomington IN USA
Max Behara
Exactly! If Senna had had any chance of having a heart attack I
think that he wouldn't have been allowed to race. To my knowledge one
doesn't have a heart attack out of the blue. His doctor would know if he
was prone to this.
Yet more misinformation.
--
Max Behara
Molly: "DS+MC" Bt+W C 1.3 X+++ L W- C+ I+++ T+ H+ S+ V+ P- E- A+
"The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore
Ayrton Senna (1960-1994) Roland Ratzenberger (1962-1994)
Tom Haapanen
> j...@Ra.MsState.Edu (Jiann-ming Su) writes:
>> Some people have mentioned heart attack. [...] Though, it doesn't
>> make too much sense to me that Senna, who I'm sure would have to be
>> in top physical form, would suffer a heart attack.
beh...@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Max Behara) writes:
> Exactly! If Senna had had any chance of having a heart attack I
> think that he wouldn't have been allowed to race. To my knowledge one
> doesn't have a heart attack out of the blue. His doctor would know if he
> was prone to this.
Yes, people in prime physical shape can suffer unexpected heart attacks.
Even athletes with no known pre-existing heart conditions.
> Yet more misinformation.
No more so than your statement that the suspension failed -- just another
possible cause for Senna's crash. It'd explain the lifting off and the
lack of any corrective action; we just don't have any solid evidence for
either this or the suspension breakage.
--
[ /tom haapanen -- to...@metrics.com -- software metrics inc -- waterloo, ont ]
[ "trust the programmer" -- preface to ansi c standard ]
Robin Chung
The speculation about heart attack with Senna's case is yet unknown.
However, as one of those aforementioned healthy young people with a heart
defect I can shed some light on the subject.
Sudden heart failure as would be experienced by an otherwise healthy
athlete is not the usual coronary episode that older people with
athersclerosis, ischemia or angina would suffer. Sudden heart failure as
would be experienced by a young athlete unexpectedly would most likely be
caused by one of two things: arrhythmia and a physical heart defect.
Arrhythmias are caused by defects in the electrical conduction nodes of
the heart's natural pacemakers. the Sino-atrial node (SA node), Atrio
Ventricular Node (AV), and the His-Perkunje bundle of fibers. Often these
heart arrhythmias are not discovered until it is too late because the
atheletes are considered otherwise healthy. There are usually warning
signs that lead to diagnosis like chest pain, dyspnea (shortness of
breath), etc. but often there are no warning signs. Reggie Lewis, a
Boston Celtic Basketball player died of a rare arrythmia defect. Often
the heart's natural pacemaker "short-circuits" and starts to race away out
of control, firing the muscles, but producing useless pumping activity,
and this is more likely to happen during high pulse rates -- exercise.
The other cause would be a physical heart defect. Most likely some
deformation of the heart valves. Most common are the aortic and mitral
valve defects, often caused through congenital transmission OR through
acquired disease in childhood (rheumatic fever, strep throat B)... This is
what I have, and how I got it. I can tell you, that in this case,
overexertion, much as would be experienced in race car driving Could,
remotely, trigger a massive heart failure. Usually, valve defect patients
experience what's known as congestive heart failure, which is a gradual
failure in the venous return of blood back to the heart. This is a
gradual process that would take minutes to hours. Howeve super exertion
could cause a massive myocardial infarction where the heart is suddenly
starved of oxygen and suffers "cardiac death" where the muscles start to
die. this is usually very sudden and without warning, and can happen in
susceptible individuals who have exceeded the exercise capacity of their
hearts. It is ironic that because of the heart defects, the hearts of
many patients are noticeably larger and stronger than the average person
to compensate for the valve defect, but at the same time, this puts the
heart in danger of being TOO big, and then it is in danger of passing the
critical point of elasticity during over-exertion. (this is what I have
to be careful about...) Signs? Wide peripheral blood pressure (150/50
is average for me), and a high resting pulse (80+), easily hitting 200
during hard exercise.
Did Senna die of this? I don't know. Did ESPN have the heart monitor on
him that race? Sometimes I remember seeing them sending that telemetry
and it was quite interesting...
Rest in peace, Aryton!
-rob
--
Robin Chung Jasmine is my Pearl White EX500 ==>>
DSP Engineer / Mainframe Admin Haas School of Business / UC Berkeley
work (510) 643 5923
.do I pay for grad school or do I buy a 94 600F2..school...bike..school..bike
Hans Staalman
[...]
>Just to put some names to this: Bastekball player Pete Maravich died on the
>court of heart failure--it was several years after he retired, but by all
>accounts he was still in excellent condition. Boxer Evander Holyfield was
>recently forced to retire because a heart problem was discovered after he
>experienced chest pains during his most recent fight. I also seem to remember a
>famous long-distance runner (Jim Fixx?) who died of a heart attack a few years
>ago. There have been others, but you get the idea.
I remember a few (2 or 3) Dutch cyclists who died in the last 5-10 years due to
heart failure: One (or two) male[s] and one female.... Recently there seemed to
be another (Dutch) cyclist with heart problems ([un]regular heartbeat), but as
far as I know newer (research) results did not confirm this. All these persons
were/are athletes with very good medical staff around etc. etc.
>Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor,
Neither am I.
>rwf
>Raymond W. Foster Internet: fos...@indiana.edu
Hans Staalman
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Department of Mathematics & Computer Science | Vrije Universiteit
(& empirical nihilistics and applied emptyology) | Amsterdam - The Netherlands
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J Unglenieks
all afternoon. There were no incidents. It was a REAL busy day.
First out of the pits was Raul Boesel, but completing the first lap
was Lyn St. James, it being Mother's Day and all. The Simon team crossed
the line in two rows of 3 staggered in mini "flying V's".
Today's Trivia Question (answer at end of post):
Who was 1993's fastest rookie qualifier?
Fastest Laps Summary:
Car Driver Chassis/Engine Top Speed Top Speed
# of Month of Day
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Emerson Fittipaldi 94 Pen/Merc 217.918 217.918
3 Paul Tracy 94 Pen/Merc 220.103 220.103
3T Paul Tracy 94 Pen/Il-D 212.691 212.691
4 Bobby Rahal 94 Lol/Hond 219.791 219.791
4T Bobby Rahal 94 Lol/Hond 213.802 213.802
5 Raul Boesel 94 Lol/Ford 223.908 (4) 223.908 (4)
5T Tero Palmroth 92 Lol/Buic 199.933 199.933
6 Mario Andretti 94 Lol/Ford 223.753 223.753
7T Adrian Fernandez 94 Rey/Il-D 207.001 207.001
8 Michael Andretti 94 Rey/Ford 222.761 222.761
8T Michael Andretti 94 Rey/Ford 223.769 (5) 223.769 (5)
10T Mike Groff 94 Lol/Hond 219.159 219.159
11 Teo Fabi 94 Rey/Il-D 223.703 223.703
12 Jacques Villeneuve 94 Rey/Ford 215.218 215.218
16 Stefan Johansson 93 Pen/Il-D 217.349 217.349
17 Dominic Dobson 94 Lol/Ford 218.161 218.161
18 Jimmy Vasser 94 Rey/Ford 179.404 179.404
19 Brian Till 93 Lol/Ford 213.493 213.493
21 Roberto Guerrero 92 Lol/Buic 225.558 (2) 225.558 (2)
22 Hiro Matsushida 94 Lol/Ford 215.440 215.440
23 Buddy Lazier 93 Lol/Il-C 219.416 219.416
25 Marco Greco 94 Lol/Ford 206.275 206.275
27 Eddie Cheever 93 Lol/Mena 223.998 (3) 223.998 (3)
28T Arie Luyendyk 94 Lol/Il-D 216.476 216.476
30 Pancho Carter 93 Lol/Il-C 190.573 190.573
31 Paul Tracy 94 Pen/Merc 217.244 217.244
39 Ross Bentley 93 Lol/Ford 201.790 201.790
40 Scott Goodyear 94 Lol/Ford 219.357 219.357
42 Johnny Parsons 93 Lol/Gree 191.095 191.095
44T Al Unser Sr 93 Lol/Ford 191.249 191.249
45 John Paul Jr 93 Lol/Il-C 218.198 218.198
59 Scott Brayton 93 Lol/Mena 227.658 (1) 227.658 (1)
71 Scott Sharp 94 Lol/Ford 218.431 218.431
74 Jim Crawford 91 Lol/Buic 150.000 150.000
79 Dennis Vitolo 93 Lol/Ford 205.541 205.541
88 Mauricio Gugelmin 94 Rey/Ford 214.905 214.905
90 Lyn St. James 94 Lol/Ford 216.763 216.763
94 Stan Fox 92 Lol/Buic 218.431 218.431
99 Hideshi Matsuda 93 Lol/Ford 214.572 214.572
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
News:
Guerrero's hot lap in the 92 Lola isn't surprising. It's the same car that
he set the official track record with in 1992.
Michael Greenfield was replaced by Johnny Parsons in the Greenfield
Industries 93 Lola-Greenfield. During practice, a gal in the stands
asked who had stalled the car on the track and when told it was Johnny
Parsons she inquired, "Is that Parsons JUNIOR?" :-)
So, was the Mercedes the first motor to detonate this month? No. That
honor goes to Michael A's Ford which blew up exiting turn 4 after posting
the fastest lap in his #8T. He was on the track about an hour later
in the #8.
Did anybody notice that Groff's Honda had a much deeper bass note than
Rahal's? My guess: different internals....
Why wasn't Stan Fox in his new Reynard? His team is waiting for his Ford
motor to arrive.
Speaking of Reynards, they have to do something about them front wings.
Either somebody broke them or didn't put them on right, they droop. :-)
Teams are ticked at USAC because of a rental charge of over $1000 dollars
for the new pop-off valves.
Stephan Gregoire's ride has dried up. Formula Project 500 withdrew the
entries.
Also withdrawn was the Tasman Motorsports Group car for Bryan Herta. It
looks fairly certain Herta will drive Foyt's #14. Announcement is
expected shortly.
The forty cars that practiced on the first day mark a new record for
opening day.
Rumors:
The reason that Paul Tracy ran in Little Al's #31? Little Al was at
Michigan running a simulated 500 mile race on the Mercedes in the #31T.
Penske will be rotating one driver to MIS to run the motor each day.
Forecast:
Weather looks good for tomorrow too. Remember your sunscreen.
Wisdom:
You know you're getting older when the top of your head starts getting
sunburned more often.
Answer to Trivia:
Stephan Gregoire at 220.767mph.
Rob U
--
- Rob Unglenieks REAL race cars DON'T wear BOWTIES anymore!!! -
- "It is the foreign element that commits our crimes. There is no -
- native criminal class except Congress." [Samuel Langhorne Clemens] -
- (Don't look at me, I DIDN'T vote for Clinton. Will Engineer For Food.) -
Max Behara
>Yes, people in prime physical shape can suffer unexpected heart attacks.
>Even athletes with no known pre-existing heart conditions.
My mistake. Not unreasonable however.
>No more so than your statement that the suspension failed -- just another
>possible cause for Senna's crash. It'd explain the lifting off and the
>lack of any corrective action; we just don't have any solid evidence for
>either this or the suspension breakage.
Yes I did state that as if it were a fact. Chalk it up to my
increasing irritation with all the posters who are now seemingly convinced
that Senna made an error based upon a single piece of data. (Patrick
Head's claim that telemetry only showed Senna lifting) Whilst this is
likely true I wonder just what things telemetry can detect? Breaking
mechanical parts? I doubt it. At least we know it wasn't an engine blow up
that spewed oil on the tires. Also I'd guess that a broken half shaft is
also out since that may have affected the engine which was being
monitored.
What's more the fact that Senna lifted off the gas only once is
hard to reconcile with driver error. Wouldn't he have put the power back
on if he noticed he was losing grip? Also he had to have lifted at some
time... when he saw he was going to crash. Besides as someone else finally
pointed out the car wasn't anywhere near the limit of adhesion through
Tamburello. Lifting while going through Peralta would probably cause an
instant spin because there the car is probably right on the edge.
Dale Murphy
Murph
datamike
Robert J Unglenieks
>Where's Nigel?
He hasn't practiced yet. As of 3PM on Monday he still hasn't been
on the track. Although, Smith, Ribbs, Gordon, Unser Jr, Herta,
and John Andretti have taken to the track earler today.
Top lap so far is Michael Andretti's 227.0 mph. Fittipladi has
"magically" found almost 10 mph of additional speed today....
(taken from the track updates on the radio - WIBC 1070AM to be exact)
david joseph harte
be easy to detect from the data revealed in the black box .Surley if
someone suffers one of the above whilst driving the telemetry would show
a sudden unexpected change in acceleration/deceleration (Not a
controlled lifting off ). Also on the subject the Sunday Times stated
that there were long black skid marks before the Tamborella which
eminated from Senna's car .As I have not heard of these before I am
wondering if it is just an inconsistancy .
Any comments on the above would be appreciated.
Dave Trinity College Dublin (IRELAND)
charles.e.slana
>
> Fastest Laps Summary:
> Car Driver Chassis/Engine Top Speed Top Speed
> # of Month of Day
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 59 Scott Brayton 93 Lol/Mena 227.658 (1) 227.658 (1)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
One note I haven't seen yet in r.a.s.: the Chicago Tribune reported
this morning that on one of Brayton's laps Sunday, he had a trap speed
of over 243mph, which is apparently some sort of unofficial record.
Of course, they also said that some of the "experts" are predicting
a 260mph trap speed for the Penske "Mercedes" cars ... (250 I might
believe...)
I'd guess that the trap that caught Brayton at 243 was set up at the end
of the back straight - that's generally the fastest part of the track.
Fast trap speeds are not uncommon for the Buicks. Heck, way back in about
'86, Jim Crawford was seen at the end of a straight at 237mph. Unfortunately,
that was about a second or two before his huge shunt (he said his tach.
was malfunctioning, so he thought he was going a lot slower as he entered
the turn).
BTW, I thought that Brayton's car was listed as a '92 Lola. I thought
that was the last year that Lolas were built to house the Buick. Is '93
correct?
Chuck Slana
AT&T Bell Labs
Naperville, IL
email: sl...@ihlpm.att.com
Troy Davis
he was at Imola. That would proove very interesting.
In the ~200mph environment, I don't think anything can be taken for granted.
Much like bullet ballistics, almost anything can happen. Who knows what
<a given driver> would actually do under those circumstances? Lift quick,
stomp hard, relax slowly?
Let's not forget that Evander Holyfield had to retire from boxing (not my "sport")
recently after going through a heavyweight bout in near-arrest because of
an undetected heart problem that was revealed only during the post-fight
examinations. His doctors were amazed that he lived through 12 rounds.
I'm not suprised that there is a skid mark. F1 tires often leave black marks,
even when cornering correctly, from their side-slipping. I do not recall
seeing these on any of the TV coverage I've seen. They do not necessarily
indicate braking.
Edward Vale
: If Senna had suffered a heart attack or blackout e.t.c , woluld it not
: be easy to detect from the data revealed in the black box .Surley if
: someone suffers one of the above whilst driving the telemetry would show
: a sudden unexpected change in acceleration/deceleration (Not a
: controlled lifting off ). Also on the subject the Sunday Times stated
I've never heard it called a *controlled* lift before. Where did this
come from ??
: that there were long black skid marks before the Tamborella which
From the replays I've seen, there was no evidence of wheel locking at all.
I could be wrong though.
: eminated from Senna's car .As I have not heard of these before I am
: wondering if it is just an inconsistancy .
: Any comments on the above would be appreciated.
:
: Dave Trinity College Dublin (IRELAND)
--
Edward Vale INTERNET: ev...@dehavilland.ca
Software Engineer, CAD/CAM Technology
de Havilland Inc. OFFICE: (416) 375-3084
Garratt Boulevard MS N02-10 FAX: (416) 375-4511
Downsview, Ontario
CANADA M3K 1Y5
david joseph harte
Hence the question :Was Senna Cornering just before the crash??
Robert J Unglenieks
>One note I haven't seen yet in r.a.s.: the Chicago Tribune reported
>this morning that on one of Brayton's laps Sunday, he had a trap speed
>of over 243mph, which is apparently some sort of unofficial record.
>Of course, they also said that some of the "experts" are predicting
>a 260mph trap speed for the Penske "Mercedes" cars ... (250 I might
>believe...)
They caught one of Roger's boys with a trap speed of 239 mph, but the
lap speed was only 212 mph. Hmmmm..........
>I'd guess that the trap that caught Brayton at 243 was set up at the end
>of the back straight - that's generally the fastest part of the track.
The Penske speed is supposedly at the end of the front straight.
>BTW, I thought that Brayton's car was listed as a '92 Lola. I thought
>that was the last year that Lolas were built to house the Buick. Is '93
>correct?
According to the charts I see it is. Then again, Menard did have a full
year to modify a car or 4.
Richard Caldwell x2206
In article <CpJtA...@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>, sl...@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (charles.e.slana) writes:
>
> BTW, I thought that Brayton's car was listed as a '92 Lola. I thought
> that was the last year that Lolas were built to house the Buick. Is '93
> correct?
According to Menard, Lola offered a Buick version the new Lola at twice
the price of the Ford or Ilmor version, about $800. Menard said
forget it and spent a lot of money updating their old cars. No idea
if those are '92 or '93 cars.
--
N. Richard Caldwell
AT&T Network Systems
n...@cbemx.cb.att.com
Robert J Unglenieks
>What's the Greenfield engine? Something else re-badged?
What I have on it isn't much. Basically a 209 cu-in V-8 built by Peter
Greenfield. I haven't seen much on it because of the hoopla over the
Mercedes. It is the same size as the Mercedes and competes in the same
engine class. It apparently gave good numbers on the dyno, but that doesn't
really mean much. I don't know if it uses any standard block though.
The Buick/Menard is a V-6 BTW.
Peter G. Olivola
Pete Fenelon <pe...@minster.york.ac.uk> wrote:
>In article <CpJC7...@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> Robert J Unglenieks wrote:
>; Michael Greenfield was replaced by Johnny Parsons in the Greenfield
>; Industries 93 Lola-Greenfield.
>
>What's the Greenfield engine? Something else re-badged?
No, it's a purpose built, pushrod, two valve like the Ilmor/M-B.
--
oliv...@netcom.com (Peter Olivola)
Joao Alcino de Andrade Martins
Max Behara (beh...@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca) wrote:
: In article <2qeaq6$7...@Ra.MsState.Edu> j...@Ra.MsState.Edu (Jiann-ming Su) writes:
: >Some people have mentioned heart attack. If this is the case, all this stuff
: >about F1 being unsafe would go down the drain, except the pit lane thing.
: >Though, it doesn't make too much sense to me that Senna, who I'm sure would
: >have to be in top physical form, would suffer a heart attack.
: Exactly! If Senna had had any chance of having a heart attack I
: think that he wouldn't have been allowed to race. To my knowledge one
: doesn't have a heart attack out of the blue. His doctor would know if he
: was prone to this.
: Yet more misinformation.
Yes, I agree that his doc would know. Senna submited to a physical and medical tests in March, 23, as he did each six mouths.
I reported a part of the results about cardio-pulmonary performance in the article Senna's health condition posted here.
: --
: Max Behara
: Molly: "DS+MC" Bt+W C 1.3 X+++ L W- C+ I+++ T+ H+ S+ V+ P- E- A+
: "The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore
: Ayrton Senna (1960-1994) Roland Ratzenberger (1962-1994)
Joao Alcino.
_____________________________________________________________________
| jmar...@cat.cce.usp.br | "God was building the perfect circuit |
| | and needed the best ever driver ... " |
| Valeu, Senna. Saudades. | Anonymous Fan |
Louis Hebert
>: >Some people have mentioned heart attack. If this is the case, all this stuff
>: >about F1 being unsafe would go down the drain, except the pit lane thing.
>: >Though, it doesn't make too much sense to me that Senna, who I'm sure would
>: >have to be in top physical form, would suffer a heart attack.
>
>: Exactly! If Senna had had any chance of having a heart attack I
>: think that he wouldn't have been allowed to race. To my knowledge one
>: doesn't have a heart attack out of the blue. His doctor would know if he
>: was prone to this.
>
>: Yet more misinformation.
>
>
>Yes, I agree that his doc would know. Senna submited to a physical and medical tests in >March, 23, as he did each six mouths.
>I reported a part of the results about cardio-pulmonary performance in the article Senna's >health condition posted here.
>
>: --
>: Max Behara
>
The unfotunate truth about the posts is that a heart attack is not
a predictable event. Although Senna was a great athlete, this does
not make him invulnerable to heart problems.
...Louis
Mark Spittal
: Max Behara (beh...@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca) wrote:
: : In article <2qeaq6$7...@Ra.MsState.Edu> j...@Ra.MsState.Edu (Jiann-ming Su) writes:
: : >Some people have mentioned heart attack. If this is the case, all this stuff
: : >about F1 being unsafe would go down the drain, except the pit lane thing.
: : >Though, it doesn't make too much sense to me that Senna, who I'm sure would
: : >have to be in top physical form, would suffer a heart attack.
: : Exactly! If Senna had had any chance of having a heart attack I
: : think that he wouldn't have been allowed to race. To my knowledge one
: : doesn't have a heart attack out of the blue. His doctor would know if he
: : was prone to this.
: : Yet more misinformation.
: Yes, I agree that his doc would know. Senna submited to a physical and medical tests in March, 23, as he did each six mouths.
: I reported a part of the results about cardio-pulmonary performance in the article Senna's health condition posted here.
People,
While I state that I do not believe for a moment it was a heart attack,
don't kid yourself. Age, physical condition can make a difference, but
some of the best atheletres inthe world, in great shape, have suffered
heart attacks with NO prioe indication that it would happen. Doctors
have missed diagnoses before, even with all the modern tests and
technologoes. Even tho some doctors think they are Gods, they aren't.
Mark
Robert King
>: Exactly! If Senna had had any chance of having a heart attack I
>: think that he wouldn't have been allowed to race. To my knowledge one
>: doesn't have a heart attack out of the blue. His doctor would know if he
>: was prone to this.
>
>: Yet more misinformation.
>
>
>Yes, I agree that his doc would know. Senna submited to a physical and
>medical tests in March, 23, as he did each six mouths.
>I reported a part of the results about cardio-pulmonary performance in
>the article Senna's health condition posted here.
True, certain people are *prone* too heart attack, but *anyone* can
have one. Witness the world-class marathon runner who died a while
back of a heart attack a few years back (whose name escapes me --
anyone remember his name?) I'm not saying Senna had a heart attack,
but a clean bill of health is *not* a guarantee against one.
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Robert A. King | |
| Systems Software Engineer | |
| Kodak Health Imaging Systems | "I drank WHAT?!?" -- Socrates |
| | |
| ki...@khis.com | |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| The opinions expressed here arn't even mine, much less my employer's! |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Timothy Clark
>
>The unfotunate truth about the posts is that a heart attack is not
>a predictable event. Although Senna was a great athlete, this does
>not make him invulnerable to heart problems.
>
>...Louis
>
>
instantaneously. I would think that even an unpredicted heart attack
would still allow time to safely pull off the track. I will be veerrry
surprised if they find he had one and this caused the accident.
Tim
_________________________________________________________________________
And the knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them.
-Peart
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tcl...@osuunx.ucc.okstate.edu
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Max Behara
Another factino: Heart Attack leaves certain chemical traces in
the blood. If Senna had one the coroner would have noticed it. Unless he
was a total bozo.
ut...@martha.utcc.utk.edu
|>
|> To my awareness a heart attack doesn't generally knock one unconscious
|> instantaneously. I would think that even an unpredicted heart attack
|> would still allow time to safely pull off the track. I will be veerrry
|> surprised if they find he had one and this caused the accident.
|> Tim
i've been staying out of this discussion for several reasons, not the least
of which is that i don't think the evidence i've heard indicates that senna
had a heart attack. however, speaking as someone who's had three heart
attacks, i've decided to try to correct some of the mis-infomation i've
read on the net about heart attacks.
first, no medical exam can predict a heart attack. sure, the docs can tell
if you're in a group that is at high risk - but, for example, i had a complete
medical exam by a heart specialist; got a clean bill of health; and had a
heart attack three days later!
also, while some heart attacks produce heardly any disconfort, others produce
so much pain that it would be impossible to "allow time to safely pull off
the track".
ron
Ron Tipton
Network Engineer
University of Tennessee
WAYNE D STEFFEN
>To my awareness a heart attack doesn't generally knock one unconscious
>instantaneously. I would think that even an unpredicted heart attack
>would still allow time to safely pull off the track. I will be veerrry
>surprised if they find he had one and this caused the accident.
> Tim
At Waterford Hills track in Michigan at a club race, the first I ever
worked as a corner marshall, a FV driver had a heart attack, his Vee
flew off track on one side, crossed the infield backwards with the tires
spinning forwards until they gripped, then launched forwards back across
the infield to the track, crossed and ended up in some trees. Heart
attacks can be sudden and violent. The driver was given CPR and survived.
I'm not saying that A.S. had a CA, just that you don't always have time
to pull over and react.
Wayne.