Mansell left because of Prost?
A73...@hasara11.bitnet
I still think that it is because of Prost, that Mansell left
Williams. I'm sure that Prost has claimed to be the first
Williams driver, and Mansell did not want to be second.
This explains Mansell nodding his head off, when Senna was angry
at Prost in the post race interview in Portugal.
(Senna said: Prost only wants to run the 100 meters sprint when
he is on running shoes and all others are on lead shoes.)
Frans (a73...@hasara11.bitnet)
duane.galensky
actually, mansell quit because he's evidently a whining
malcontented baby. the fact that he can't tolerate teaming
with a driver that might beat him. he "wasn't being
treated like a world champion..." when williams ignored him
for a couple of weeks...what a tremendous load of manure.
fact is, he thinks a lot more of himself than the rest of
the team does. where he made a terrible mistake was in
not acknowledging the tremendous engineering feat his team
pulled off in building a car that can tolerate his punishment
as well as perform far and away better than all the competition.
his mistake was he thought it was all his doing. all ol'
nige had to do all year was to be on guard against that
brain fade, and drive like an orangutan on amphetamines.
as if williams OWES him some special dispensation when every
driver in the world is clamoring for a seat with them! how
unbelievably smug!
and to think he passed up the opportunity for back-to-back
championships for this...what an unbelievable dolt...brain
fade rears its ugly head again...i'm afraid it's incurable.
i was feeling pretty good about mansell winning until all
this stuff went down. maybe paul newman will be more interested
in tucking him in at night and telling him bedtime stories
than frank williams was. who cares. yawn.
personally, i can't wait to see senna's doors blown off by
michael andretti! as for senna's comment above, you gotta
consider the source: the guy who's gonna take all his
toys and go home unless he gets the fastest ride has the
audacity to make those kind of comments?! perhaps he and
nigel can open up a charm school together after they retire.
duane
PS: alain prost - 1993 world driving champion!!!! are you
listening, my dear little ayrton? don't cry...perhaps
there's a future for you selling used cars in rio...
Denis Schiozer
>In article <92272.170...@HASARA11.BITNET> <A73...@HASARA11.BITNET> writes:
>>
>
>
>nige had to do all year was to be on guard against that
>brain fade, and drive like an orangutan on amphetamines.
>
>i was feeling pretty good about mansell winning until all
>this stuff went down. maybe paul newman will be more interested
>in tucking him in at night and telling him bedtime stories
>than frank williams was. who cares. yawn.
>
>personally, i can't wait to see senna's doors blown off by
>michael andretti! as for senna's comment above, you gotta
>
>duane
------
>
>PS: alain prost - 1993 world driving champion!!!! are you
> listening, my dear little ayrton? don't cry...perhaps
> there's a future for you selling used cars in rio...
I think you have to wait a long time to see that your dreams
won't come true.
It looks like is you that want the other's people toys, not Senna.
---
Before any prediction aboute Ayrton's future job, remember that
he refuse a $25 million dollars contract with Ferrari. I looks
to me he will be in Rio, but it's more likely that you will be
selling used cars.
I'm sorry to take this personnally but I think every one has the
rigth to choose what to do and Mansell and Senna are rigth to
claim a fair treatment from Frank Willians. They are good.
They are world champions. And they make the show that you are
watching.
Denis Schiozer
Kim Wallen
Thanks
Kim
-----------------------------------------------
| Kim Wallen Internet: k...@unix.cc.emory.edu
| Department of psychology Bitnet: kim@emoryu1
| Emory University
| Atlanta, GA 30322
|
| Phone: (404) 727-4125 FAX: (404) 727-0372
-------------------------------------------
eliot
Nigel Roebuck's article on this week's Autoweek (and presumably Autosport)
points the finger at $$$$. Lots of internal sources quoted. Overall the
other Nige thinks that Nige's ego is too big as well.
eliot
Toby Vaughn Padfield
Senna is an unbelievable hypocrite!!!!!!!! He has said that if he
doesn't have a chance to win, he won't drive next year. He has a right to
refuse to drive what he believes will be an inferior car (in the '93 McLaren
MP4/8), but to cry about Prost and his supposed no-Senna clause is outrageous!
All of this from the man who vetoed Warwick from Lotus!!!!!!!! I have practi-
cally no respect for him anymore, or Mansell for that matter! But, then again,
what will my opinion mean in a week??? Oh, well, I'd pay to drive the AMF!!!!!
All of that may have exceeded my $0.02,
TOBY...
George M. Smiley
>doesn't have a chance to win, he won't drive next year. He has a right to
>refuse to drive what he believes will be an inferior car (in the '93 McLaren
>MP4/8), but to cry about Prost and his supposed no-Senna clause is outrageous!
>All of this from the man who vetoed Warwick from Lotus!!!!!!!! I have practi-
>cally no respect for him anymore, or Mansell for that matter! But, then again,
>what will my opinion mean in a week??? Oh, well, I'd pay to drive the AMF!!!!!
>
>
>All of that may have exceeded my $0.02,
>TOBY...
>
seems like a pretty honest opinion to me. The various Prost shennanigans
serve only one purpose: to try to win the championship off the track before
the season even starts. Prost has realized that the only way he can be
champion is to beat Senna and the only way to beat Senna is through
mechanical advantage and/or pyschological trickery.
If you are looking for something to respect, then respect the way Senna
smoked Brundle on route to a third despite 1 extra (and slow) pit stop
than the rest of the feild. This is the reason they call it *MOTOR SPORT*
and not *BEAUTY PAGEANT*. Respect Mansell for being world champion, repsect
Prost & Senna for being 3 time world champions. Disrespect AMF for being
also-rans, got it ?
George
eliot
> Senna is an unbelievable hypocrite!!!!!!!! He has said that if he
>doesn't have a chance to win, he won't drive next year. He has a right to
>refuse to drive what he believes will be an inferior car (in the '93 McLaren
>MP4/8), but to cry about Prost and his supposed no-Senna clause is outrageous!
>All of this from the man who vetoed Warwick from Lotus!!!!!!!! I have practi-
>cally no respect for him anymore, or Mansell for that matter!
I feel that Prost is justified in vetoing Senna. After all, didn't he
tell the world that he deliberately crashed Prost out in Japan 2 years
ago? Too bad for Senna if he can't play F1 politics.. no use whining
and calling names. I'd rather have a driver playing politics than a
driver playing with death on the racetrack. I hope that Senna sits
out 1993, because if he doesn't it will get real ugly when he crashes
into Prost deliberately again. The way he was talking at the Portugal
post-race interview sends shivers up my spine. All he has to do is to
pull a Berger style "racing accident" to stop Prost. And I think he
is low enough to do such a thing too.
There, let's see the flames start on this one... :-) :-)
eliot
Jonathan Swaby
(duane.galensky) says:
>In article <92272.170...@HASARA11.BITNET> <A73...@HASARA11.BITNET>
>writes:
>>Well, as I've said twice before (last week and a month ago),
>>I still think that it is because of Prost, that Mansell left
>>Williams. I'm sure that Prost has claimed to be the first
>>Williams driver, and Mansell did not want to be second.
>>
>>This explains Mansell nodding his head off, when Senna was angry
>>at Prost in the post race interview in Portugal.
>>(Senna said: Prost only wants to run the 100 meters sprint when
>>he is on running shoes and all others are on lead shoes.)
>>
>>Frans (a73...@hasara11.bitnet)
>actually, mansell quit because he's evidently a whining
>malcontented baby. the fact that he can't tolerate teaming
>with a driver that might beat him. he "wasn't being
>treated like a world champion..." when williams ignored him
>for a couple of weeks...what a tremendous load of manure.
Do you know this for fact? I think if you won employee of the year
and were then asked to take a pay cut, you would be angry as well.
IMHO, I don't think Mansell had a problem driving with Prost. I think
he was expecting to make more money next year not a pay cut.
>fact is, he thinks a lot more of himself than the rest of
>the team does. where he made a terrible mistake was in
>not acknowledging the tremendous engineering feat his team
>pulled off in building a car that can tolerate his punishment
>as well as perform far and away better than all the competition.
>his mistake was he thought it was all his doing. all ol'
>nige had to do all year was to be on guard against that
>brain fade, and drive like an orangutan on amphetamines.
If that were the case then how come we did not see a closer battle
between Mansell and Patrese? If it is all the car and nothing to do
with Mansell, then how do you explain Mansells wins without a FW14.
He has been runner-up twice for the WDC.
>as if williams OWES him some special dispensation when every
>driver in the world is clamoring for a seat with them! how
>unbelievably smug!
I think he was demanding the respect he deserves. Prost left the
McLaren team because he did not think he was treated correctly.
at least thats what he says. Maybe he felt threatened by Senna.
>and to think he passed up the opportunity for back-to-back
>championships for this...what an unbelievable dolt...brain
>fade rears its ugly head again...i'm afraid it's incurable.
Prost did the same by leaving McLaren to join Ferrari. Maybe
he is ready for something new and different. He was ready to leave F1
before.
>i was feeling pretty good about mansell winning until all
>this stuff went down. maybe paul newman will be more interested
>in tucking him in at night and telling him bedtime stories
>than frank williams was. who cares. yawn.
Maybe Newman/Haas will treat him like a champion. Maybe if he
wins the Indy car championship and Little Al offers to drive
the Newman/Haas car for free they will not ask to cut Mansells pay.
>personally, i can't wait to see senna's doors blown off by
>michael andretti! as for senna's comment above, you gotta
>consider the source: the guy who's gonna take all his
>toys and go home unless he gets the fastest ride has the
>audacity to make those kind of comments?! perhaps he and
>nigel can open up a charm school together after they retire.
How bout Prost. What a cry baby. He is no longer welcome at
McLaren and Ferrari. Soon it will be Williams also. Imagine if
he gets teamed with a driver that is as good as Senna or Mansell.
A teammate he has to compete with. What will he do? Cry to Renault.
Thats how he got the Williams ride to begin with.
Mansell certainly has more charm than Prost. Prost will stab anyone
and everyone in the back. Why doesn't he want Senna at Williams. At
McLaren Prost said Senna got better equipment. Does he think that Senna
is going to charm the Renault mechanics like he did the Honda guys?
Jonathan Swaby
Toby Vaughn Padfield
> Denis Schiozer
Frank Williams doesn't owe anyone SHIT!!!!!! If Mansell wasn't
there, Williams' would probably still won the championship by virtue of
the FW14B. From most published reports, the most recent of which is the
one in AutoWeek by Nigel Roebuck, Mansell pushed his luck too far, and
Frank backed away. Yes, Mansell has done a superb job for him this year,
but that does not mean Frank should be required to cater to Mansell's
every whim (5 extra hotel rooms per race!). It is sad that Mansell will
be departing and most probably Senna as well. A damn shame, really. But,
I guess we'll just have to get used to it...
TOBY...
Toby Vaughn Padfield
>Is there a rebroadcast of the Portugal F1 race scheduled on ESPN?
The re-broadcast is Sept 30, at 3:30 am.
>Thanks
>Kim
> -----------------------------------------------
>| Kim Wallen Internet: k...@unix.cc.emory.edu
>| Department of psychology Bitnet: kim@emoryu1
>| Emory University
>| Atlanta, GA 30322
>|
>| Phone: (404) 727-4125 FAX: (404) 727-0372
> -------------------------------------------
TOBY...
Denis Schiozer
>
> Frank Williams doesn't owe anyone SHIT!!!!!! If Mansell wasn't
>there, Williams' would probably still won the championship by virtue of
>the FW14B. From most published reports, the most recent of which is the
>one in AutoWeek by Nigel Roebuck, Mansell pushed his luck too far, and
>Frank backed away. Yes, Mansell has done a superb job for him this year,
>but that does not mean Frank should be required to cater to Mansell's
>every whim (5 extra hotel rooms per race!). It is sad that Mansell will
>be departing and most probably Senna as well. A damn shame, really. But,
>I guess we'll just have to get used to it...
>
>TOBY...
>
I agree with you Toby. I did not say that Frank owe something to Mansell.
I was defending Mansell's right to quit or do anything he wants with his
career as well as Senna with his.
Frank is also part of the show.
I just didn'd agree with duane telling bad things about them all.
They can ask what they want. I sure the sponsors and teams will give no
more than they deserve.
Denis Schiozer
Toby Vaughn Padfield
>George
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(That was me being engulfed by the inferno!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
TOBY...
j...@rti.rti.org
>I feel that Prost is justified in vetoing Senna. After all, didn't he
>tell the world that he deliberately crashed Prost out in Japan 2 years
>ago? Too bad for Senna if he can't play F1 politics.. no use whining
>and calling names. I'd rather have a driver playing politics than a
>driver playing with death on the racetrack. I hope that Senna sits
>out 1993, because if he doesn't it will get real ugly when he crashes
>into Prost deliberately again. The way he was talking at the Portugal
>post-race interview sends shivers up my spine. All he has to do is to
>pull a Berger style "racing accident" to stop Prost. And I think he
>is low enough to do such a thing too.
This post was the last straw. See ya' at the race track.....
(Hitting ``u'' now)
--
John Posthill j...@rti.rti.org
Marcos Bachir Mubaied
>
>PS: alain prost - 1993 world driving champion!!!! are you
>listening, my dear little ayrton? don't cry...perhaps
>there's a future for you selling used cars in rio...
Alain Prost will be a pseudo-champion. He does not have
confidence in himself so vetoed both Mansell and Senna.
What is the meaning of this title gained by a coward like that?
--
___ | | | ___ | | /| | | | |
| | _| | | | _| | /_| | | | | | | |
o_|__|____| | | | o |_o____| | | |__|__| | o_|__|__|___|
___/ oo ___| |___| ___| ___/ o
Luis Miguel Silveira
In article <Sep29.210...@engr.washington.edu>
el...@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
In article <BvCp3...@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tvp5...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
(Toby Vaughn Padfield) writes:
> Senna is an unbelievable hypocrite!!!!!!!! He has said that if he
>doesn't have a chance to win, he won't drive next year. He has a right to
>refuse to drive what he believes will be an inferior car (in the
> '93 McLaren MP4/8), but to cry about Prost and his supposed
> no-Senna clause is outrageous!
>All of this from the man who vetoed Warwick from Lotus!!!!!!!!
I feel that Prost is justified in vetoing Senna. After all, didn't he
tell the world that he deliberately crashed Prost out in Japan 2 years
ago?
I completely agree with this assesment! From past experience Prost
knows that being on the same team as Senna is not healthy, period. I
am not putting the blame on either, just looking at things
objectively. Anytime two drivers on the same team become too
competitive with eachother, the relation degrades and usually that
ends up badly (Mansell-Piquet in 86, Senna-Prost in 88, 89, even
Pironi-Villeneuve in their days at Ferrari, etc, etc). It just does
not work!!
Make no mistake. Prost is no better nor worse than Senna. Do you
think that if he could (have thougth of that) Senna would not have
such a clause ? Believe me he would...
Prost plays his hand. So does Senna. My only hope ? None gets a
drive (will not happen, I know... too bad).
Senna is driving the second best car in the circus (maybe third). How
many drivers throughout history have ever had that chance ? Many
times drivers have won with the second best car (Prost, 86, Piquet 81,
etc, etc), so he would no doubt have a chance (besides nest year is
next year, who knows). Saying he will give up unless he can have a
Williams is at the very least a lack of respect for his colleagues
(all the other F1 drivers) who cannot drive a Williams themselves.
As for Prost, he is no better, except at playing the politics. Do I
like it ? No. Can I blame him ? No!
Finally, the great Nige himself (I am getting fed up with this ESPN
coverage of the Nigel Mansell races! Will Andrew Mariott move to Indy
Car's next year to follow his beloved Nige ? Gimme a break, I do not
need to know what he has for breakfast). Nigel was just not too
smart! And he was fucked up! Yes, Frankie did him in, but he should
have seen it coming. He should have guessed Prost was coming, stayed
with the team, win next year's championship and then force Prost into
retirement. Maybe he did not believe he could do it (or simply saw
that with him and Prost together he would get the wrong end of the
stick, which is very likely). In any case he played his cards badly!
Do I feel sorry for him ? Not really.
So next year Prost and Senna go at eachother all year and pretty much
eliminate eachother everywhere. This will provide for a more
competitive championshipo!
Go Herbert, go Boutsen, go Lammers!!
-Miguel
--
=============================================================================
Luis Miguel Silveira e-mail : l...@rle-vlsi.mit.edu
=============================================================================
Research Laboratory for Electronics - Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Room 36-893, 77 Massachusetts Ave, Phone: (617)-253-7307
Cambridge MA 02139 Fax: (617)-258-7864
=============================================================================
also affiliated with:
INESC - Instituto de Engenharia de Sistemas e Computadores
Av. Alves Redol, 9-3o, 1000 Lisboa, PORTUGAL Phone: (351)-1-3100288
=============================================================================
Luis Miguel Silveira
In article <92273.12...@psuvm.psu.edu>
Jonathan Swaby <JF...@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
If that were the case then how come we did not see a closer battle
between Mansell and Patrese?
I think we have to agree that Mansell outdrove Patrese all year (few
exceptions, Hungary for instance). Whether this was pure driving
ability, we can only conjecture, but I see no reasons not to believe
so.
If it is all the car and nothing to do
with Mansell, then how do you explain Mansells wins without a FW14.
He has been runner-up twice for the WDC.
It may be just me but in both cases didn't he had clearly the best car
in the track. The two previous times he just plainly had an equal
teammate (Piquet). In 86 this made for the points division and kept
Prost in the race (and yes, Mansell was unlucky, but heck that's the
name of the game). In 87 Piquet must have outdriven him (don't
remember anymore, but use same reasoning as for this year's comparison
with Patrese)
In any case there is little doubt that this time around the Williams
was the far superior car. If Mansell had dropped out of all races,
Patrese would win the WC hands down, so yes, the car had a lot to do
with it (I doubt Mansell would deny that).
Note that last year the car was equally dominating and I still believe
they would have won with just a little bit mroe reliability and
without the fuck-up pitstop in Portugal.
I think he was demanding the respect he deserves. Prost left the
McLaren team because he did not think he was treated correctly.
at least thats what he says. Maybe he felt threatened by Senna.
I am not sure if the two situations are comparable. Prost had driven
alongside Senna, Mansell has not driven at Williams with Prost (they
drove together at Ferrari, but that's different). I really think
Mansell was just trying to get guaranties (equal treatment, more
money, whatever) that he would not get fucked-up and ended up being so
in the process..
Prost did the same by leaving McLaren to join Ferrari. Maybe
he is ready for something new and different. He was ready to leave F1
before.
This is clealy not true. At that point McLaren was completely in
Senna's side (why ? do not ask me, I could not choose between the
two) and Prost had no hope. But he had been through it before, he
knew! Mansell could only imagine. Not a fair comparison.
How bout Prost. What a cry baby. He is no longer welcome at
McLaren and Ferrari. Soon it will be Williams also.
Who do you know that left Williams in good terms (Reutemann, Piquet,
Boutsen, ??)? I thougth so... So not being welcomed at Williams is
hardly a good measure to anything :-).
Imagine if
he gets teamed with a driver that is as good as Senna or Mansell.
And why not ? There are quite a few potential great drivers out there
(Schumacher, Hakkinnen, Herbert, who knows who else). We will see!
A teammate he has to compete with. What will he do? Cry to Renault.
Thats how he got the Williams ride to begin with.
Proof ? Fact ? Imagine you were Renault (which are not in this
business to get the nicest looking drivers into their cars). Who
would you want driving for you ? Does french driver ring a bell ?
Mansell certainly has more charm than Prost. Prost will stab anyone
and everyone in the back. Why doesn't he want Senna at Williams.
Maybe he thinks he got stabbed in the back by Senna way back when. I
think it is very obvious why he would not want Senna. Would you if
you were in his place ? Heck I would try my best to make Williams a
1-car team if I could. Why share the wealth ?
Make no mistake. I *do not* like Prost. But I see little to separate
him from Senna (in just about every respect, from driving abilities to
attitude, etc). Mansell ? I think he did not have such a strong
position to start with and did not understand it very well.
richard welty
>I'm sorry to take this personnally but I think every one has the
>rigth to choose what to do and Mansell and Senna are rigth to
>claim a fair treatment from Frank Willians. They are good.
now, now. in truth, until the papers are signed, noone has any
right to claim anything from FW. this is a business after all,
and Senna has no _right_ based on his (admittedly remarkable) driving
skills to _expect_ anything at all. Mansell might have a greater
claim, but if either had a right, then we'd be seeing court cases
instead of races right now.
now i don't know who the victim is in this whole Williams/Mansell
thing is; maybe Mansell had some legitmate expectations that weren't
net. but Senna having rights in this situation? come on. he's a
driver who wants to change seats, nothing more (ok, so he's a Very
Good Driver who wants to change seats.)
sigh,
richard
--
richard welty 518-393-7228
we...@cabot.balltown.cma.com
``if you can read this, mario, you're too close''
-- bumper sticker seen on a CART safety truck
Andrew Henry
>In 87 Piquet must have outdriven him (don't remember anymore, but use
>same reasoning as for this year's comparison with Patrese)
Piquet scored more points than Mansell. Whether that is the same
as "outdriven" is debatable. Its certainly been debated a lot!
>If Mansell had dropped out of all races, Patrese would win the WC hands
>down, so yes, the car had a lot to do with it (I doubt Mansell would
>deny that).
Speaking as someone who put a little money on Patrese to win this
years WC at 8:1, I'm not so sure. It was an each way bet, so I'll
get my money back with enough left over for a beer if he comes 2nd
or 3rd. The trouble is that both Senna and Schumacher are getting
a little too close for comfort. If Patrese comes fourth, in the
final standings, he's *not* going to be my favourite driver !
Andrew Henry
Sempre Gilles bsp...@gdr.bath.ac.uk
duane.galensky
>>
>Oh please Toby, he said he is tired of risking his life for third. This
>seems like a pretty honest opinion to me. The various Prost shennanigans
>serve only one purpose: to try to win the championship off the track before
>the season even starts. Prost has realized that the only way he can be
>champion is to beat Senna and the only way to beat Senna is through
>mechanical advantage and/or pyschological trickery.
sorry, but i disagree with you there. in fact, prost doesn't want
to drive with senna because of his past experiences with him.
prost is tired of risking his life putting up with senna as a
teammate...can't say i blame him there. and besides, the
way prost WILL be champion is by driving a williams next year.
i don't imagine that senna had any mechanical advantage LAST
year, did he?
i do indeed hope that it's more competitive than this year...
perhaps mclaren and benetton will make significant improvements...
>If you are looking for something to respect, then respect the way Senna
>smoked Brundle on route to a third despite 1 extra (and slow) pit stop
>than the rest of the feild. This is the reason they call it *MOTOR SPORT*
>and not *BEAUTY PAGEANT*. Respect Mansell for being world champion, repsect
>Prost & Senna for being 3 time world champions. Disrespect AMF for being
>also-rans, got it ?
>
respecting senna smoking brundle is kinda like respecting
somebody for passing decesaris. i'd expect it from someone who
commands his salary and drives mclaren iron. i'm not too
sure about brundle's talent after that bonehead maneuver
which detached his teammate's wing...
indeed, it should be MOTOR SPORT. it's not too much to
ask for these guys to act like sportsmen. it certainly
isn't a beauty pageant (;-) ...i respect the driving
skills of these guys very highly...but they significantly
detract from their own public image with their behaviors
(sometimes on the track, sometimes off.)
duane
duane.galensky
>between Mansell and Patrese? If it is all the car and nothing to do
>with Mansell, then how do you explain Mansells wins without a FW14.
>He has been runner-up twice for the WDC.
partese simply is not in the upper echelon of drivers. of that
tier of drivers, i'd hand it to both senna and prost for being
able to overcome mechanical disadvantage, milking tires, and
making the motor and gearbox last the race. one reason that
mansell has been runner up twice is because he simply breaks
the cars.
>How bout Prost. What a cry baby. He is no longer welcome at
>McLaren and Ferrari. Soon it will be Williams also. Imagine if
>he gets teamed with a driver that is as good as Senna or Mansell.
>A teammate he has to compete with. What will he do? Cry to Renault.
>Thats how he got the Williams ride to begin with.
i guess i see it from the opposite side...there's probably
a message for all of us in there somewhere...
>Mansell certainly has more charm than Prost. Prost will stab anyone
>and everyone in the back. Why doesn't he want Senna at Williams. At
>McLaren Prost said Senna got better equipment. Does he think that Senna
>is going to charm the Renault mechanics like he did the Honda guys?
indeed this bickering about who has the best car was
another example of how behaviors detract from the persona.
but as far as why he doesn't want senna at williams: probably
stems from those little scuffles they've had on the track.
your last point is well taken because for prost to even think
that senna has the ability to charm ANYBODY is ridiculous.
duane
duane.galensky
sorry, but actually what i'd really like is good competition
between sportsmen, not sniveling whiny moaning from
inflated egos.
>Before any prediction aboute Ayrton's future job, remember that
>he refuse a $25 million dollars contract with Ferrari. I looks
>to me he will be in Rio, but it's more likely that you will be
>selling used cars.
senna turned down a $25 M deal with ferrari exactly and
specifically because he knows that he cannot win driving
a ferrari. no other reason. as such, for him to accuse
prost of only wanting to race when everyone else has
lead boots is not only ironic, it's idiotic.
>
>I'm sorry to take this personnally but I think every one has the
>rigth to choose what to do and Mansell and Senna are rigth to
>claim a fair treatment from Frank Willians. They are good.
>They are world champions. And they make the show that you are
>watching.
>
please don't take this personally...unless you really
are senna or mansell in disguise! but this statement
implies that they are not getting a fair deal from frank
williams. in fact, mansell expected more from williams than
they were willing to give. he thought more of himself
than did his employer. hey! it happens all the time.
if he was really that spectacular, williams would have
capitulated to his terms. he took a chance, and he
got humiliated. them's the breaks.
and i agree with you that they are good drivers. it's
just that when you're paid these astronomical sums, i
think that its reasonable for fans to expect sportsmanlike
conduct, a sense of humility and fair play, concern
for safety, and all the rest. truth is, both of these
guys act like spoiled, snively little snot-nosed brats.
this is NOT the show that i'd PREFER to be watching.
duane
duane.galensky
>>duane
>>
>>PS: alain prost - 1993 world driving champion!!!! are you
>>listening, my dear little ayrton? don't cry...perhaps
>>there's a future for you selling used cars in rio...
>
> Alain Prost will be a pseudo-champion. He does not have
> confidence in himself so vetoed both Mansell and Senna.
> What is the meaning of this title gained by a coward like that?
>
>
re: vetoing senna
it means a bit more than the title earned by crashing into
your closest competitor to deny them the opportunity
of getting points. at least in this case, there is a not
only a legitimate well reasoned rationale, there is some
semblance of respect for both the talent and personality
of mr. prost, respect that evidently senna doesn't deserve
even after an offer to drive for free. that kinda says it all
to me.
re: vetoing mansell
mansell vetoed himself by thinking himself as good as senna
and figuring he could command a commensurate salary.
he's not as good as senna, or prost...he's not getting
his $25M...and he's perfectly within his rights to pack
up all his playthings and go home. besides, he lives in
florida anyway...why not race indy cars?
duane
Barbara La Scala
>> duane write:
>>
>> PS: alain prost - 1993 world driving champion!!!! are you
>> listening, my dear little ayrton? don't cry...perhaps
>> there's a future for you selling used cars in rio...
> Alain Prost will be a pseudo-champion. He does not have
> confidence in himself so vetoed both Mansell and Senna.
> What is the meaning of this title gained by a coward like that?
I think claiming that Alain Prost is a coward and would only be a
pseudo-champion is a little harsh. For him to veto Senna is entirely
understandable. Senna isn't just a rival he is a rival who, on his own
admission, deliberately crashed into Prost in an attempt to prevent him
from winning the world championship. It seems to me that not wanting Senna
in the same team isn't a matter of wanting to avoid competition but a
matter of wanting to avoid downright dangerous competition! I'm certainly
not going to condemn him for that.
As for Prost vetoing Mansell, does anyone know what started this rumour?
The Senna veto seems to be pretty much an accepted fact but this Mansell
veto is a new one to me. If it is true that Prost vetoed Mansell, and I've
not read anything to support this claim so far, then I can see no other
explanation than he wanted to avoid fair competition within the team, which
is very disappointing. Does anyone have any facts on this matter?
Barbara
--
bls...@syseng.anu.edu.au
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've
never tried before." - Mae West
Jonathan Swaby
(Barbara La Scala) says:
>> mar...@ascii.co.jp (Marcos Bachir Mubaied) writes:
>>> duane write:
>>>
>>> PS: alain prost - 1993 world driving champion!!!! are you
>>> listening, my dear little ayrton? don't cry...perhaps
>>> there's a future for you selling used cars in rio...
>> Alain Prost will be a pseudo-champion. He does not have
>> confidence in himself so vetoed both Mansell and Senna.
>> What is the meaning of this title gained by a coward like that?
>I think claiming that Alain Prost is a coward and would only be a
>pseudo-champion is a little harsh. For him to veto Senna is entirely
>understandable. Senna isn't just a rival he is a rival who, on his own
>admission, deliberately crashed into Prost in an attempt to prevent him
>from winning the world championship. It seems to me that not wanting Senna
>in the same team isn't a matter of wanting to avoid competition but a
>matter of wanting to avoid downright dangerous competition! I'm certainly
>not going to condemn him for that.
I don't know if this is true. I think Senna would be more dangerous if
they were not on the same team. If his new McLaren is not as good as the
FW15. I don't think that this is Prosts problem with Senna. I think he
wants to be the clear cut #1. I think he wants to always have the spare
car. I think he wants to get the best equipment and support. With Senna
or Mansell there they would have to work out a method for using the spare
Also crew support could be questioned.
>As for Prost vetoing Mansell, does anyone know what started this rumour?
>The Senna veto seems to be pretty much an accepted fact but this Mansell
>veto is a new one to me. If it is true that Prost vetoed Mansell, and I've
>not read anything to support this claim so far, then I can see no other
>explanation than he wanted to avoid fair competition within the team, which
>is very disappointing. Does anyone have any facts on this matter?
I have not heard anything about this, but back at Ferrari Mansell did
piss Prost off. Mansell cut him off or something on the track. I don't
think Prost finished the race. From that point on Prost had nothing good
to say about his teammate. Mansell publically apologized. I think in
the race after the incident Mansell let Prost thru.
Jonathan Swaby
Phil DNM44
##> mar...@ascii.co.jp (Marcos Bachir Mubaied) writes:
:: stuff deleted ...
##As for Prost vetoing Mansell, does anyone know what started this rumour?
##The Senna veto seems to be pretty much an accepted fact but this Mansell
##veto is a new one to me. If it is true that Prost vetoed Mansell, and I've
##not read anything to support this claim so far, then I can see no other
##explanation than he wanted to avoid fair competition within the team, which
##is very disappointing. Does anyone have any facts on this matter?
##
##Barbara
i don't know where it started from, but ayrton did state that prost
had in fact vetoed both 'me and himself' while waving a thumb at
nigel. this was in the bbc post-race interview after estoril... only
shown in the highlights, as they ran out of satelite time :-)
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Jim Delwiche
> Alain Prost will be a pseudo-champion. He does not have
> confidence in himself so vetoed both Mansell and Senna.
> What is the meaning of this title gained by a coward like that?
I have a lot of trouble with labeling a man a coward who drives F1 for
a living! Every man and woman who straps on a race car is more than a
little courageous, even they ones in the Saturday night bullrings.
Now, let's get every good driver a good ride, and have some racing.
Jim
A73...@hasara11.bitnet
for less than Williams offered him?
A73...@hasara11.bitnet
>had in fact vetoed both 'me and himself' while waving a thumb at
>nigel. this was in the bbc post-race interview after estoril... only
>shown in the highlights, as they ran out of satelite time :-)
Still I think Prost did not veto Mansell, but denied him nr 1 status.
And I think that that is the primary reason that Mansell left Williams.
(Because, if Prost vetoed Mansell, how can it be that at the last
moment Williams agreed to Mansell? Although, on the other hand, maybe
Williams, at that time, was looking for a Senna+Mansell team and
leave Pros at Renault - Well I'm getting confused)
Frans