Best driver NOT Champion?!?!?
David F Thwaites
In <568k23$r...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> rich...@mbnet.mb.ca (Richard
M.M. Ray) writes:
>
> Is it just me or does anybody else think that the best driver
did not
>win the winston cup championship? Lets face it, Jeff won 10 races and
Terry
>only won 1. Don't get me wrong, Terry is a great driver and a first
class
>guy, but Gordon is clearly the best nascar driver at the moment. Jeff
still
>beat Terry in the final race!
>
> Are there any plans to award the winner of a race more points?
This
>would help. If the winner just received a bonus of 5 points, Jeff
would have
>won the championship. I hope Nascar takes a close look at how points
are
>awarded and will make the necessary adjustments.
>
>My 2 cents, Richard. (Canadian Nascar Fan)
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NASCAR DOES NOT GIVE THE CUP TO THE BEST DRIVER. THEY GIVE IT TO THE
MOST CONSISTANT ONE.(Some may argue that the most consistant driver IS
the best, but winning a THIRD of the races during the season should
really count for something...compared to a champion who only won 2)
RACINFAN GO JOHNNY GO ! ! !
Richard M.M. Ray
Tom Hansen
I can see it from both sides. One problem with awarding significantly more
points for winning is the last couple of laps in a race. If drivers
weren't concerned about wrecking and hurting themselves in the points, the
last few laps might be mayhem. What you end up with is two attitudes. The
lets finish and stay out of trouble. The lets win this puppy. The only
bad thing about the points system is the really slow cars that limp around
the track and clog it up for others. Oh well, these things are always a
balancing act.
/THansen
Richard M.M. Ray <rich...@mbnet.mb.ca> wrote in article
<568k23$r...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>...
hay...@aol.com
In article <568k23$r...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>, rich...@mbnet.mb.ca
(Richard M.M. Ray) writes:
> Are there any plans to award the winner of a race more points? This
>would help. If the winner just received a bonus of 5 points, Jeff would
have
>
>won the championship. I hope Nascar takes a close look at how points are
>awarded and will make the necessary adjustments.
I think we should change the rules in some way to make sure that Jeff
Gordon wins the cup. Then we would have a lot more free time. We wouldn't
have to even watch the races. I have another idea why don't we let him use
special wheels and hubs maybe he could win a few extra races. Wait a
minute there is no way that they would do that the whole team is so
religious that they would never cheat.%^) %^) %^) %^)
One more comment, maybe the name of this post should be changed to Best
Team NOT Champion. I am an not a fan of DE but he has not given up the
best driver championship yet).
Mert
Yoo Hoo Roger It's me!
Keith Douglass
Richard M.M. Ray <rich...@mbnet.mb.ca> wrote in article
<568k23$r...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>...
> Is it just me or does anybody else think that the best driver did
not
> win the winston cup championship? Lets face it, Jeff won 10 races and
Terry
> only won 1. Don't get me wrong, Terry is a great driver and a first
class
> guy, but Gordon is clearly the best nascar driver at the moment. Jeff
still
> beat Terry in the final race!
>
> Are there any plans to award the winner of a race more points?
This
> would help. If the winner just received a bonus of 5 points, Jeff would
have
> won the championship. I hope Nascar takes a close look at how points are
> awarded and will make the necessary adjustments.
>
> My 2 cents, Richard. (Canadian Nascar Fan)
>
>
For Terry to win the championship, he must of kicked Jeffie's A$$ a number
of times, otherwise Jeffie would be champ. Consistency does count, not a
crash or win attitude.
Keith
William M. Hudson
Okay, let's hear it. Everyone said Rusty Wallace was crying
when he won the most races (8 & 10) two years in a row
and DID NOT win the championship. Back then everyone was
proposing several "questionable" points changes that
awarded the winner more points.
Let me be the first to tell the Gordon fans to
QUIT CRYING!!
All the drivers know what the point system is going
into every season. Terry did what he had to do to win the
championship. Gordon needs to work on the DNF's. That's the
same problem Wallace had (and still does) when he won the most
races. A win does not make up for a DNF! In this case 8
more wins does not make up for 2 more DNFs!!!!
Bottom line, The 5 TEAM was the best over the entire season!
Later,
-Bill.
Wallace in '97!
Nick Totoro
Richard M.M. Ray wrote:
<<Is it just me or does anybody else think that the best driver did
not win the winston cup championship?>>
Eh? You mean Jeff Gordon could have won the title without his team
or his crew chief? He could have done it all by himself... set up the
car... everything? The award goes for team effort. There is already a
series where all drivers compete in the same cars and Mark Martin & Dale
Earnhardt have two titles each. Martin is the '96 IROC champ.
One thing is for sure... this group surely has no shortage of sore
Jeff Gordon fans.
<<Lets face it, Jeff won 10 races and Terry only won 1.>>
Actually, Terry won two.
<<Don't get me wrong, Terry is a great driver and a first class
guy, but Gordon is clearly the best nascar driver at the moment.>>
To whom, exactly, is that clear? Does he have talent? Absolutely...
he has natural driving ability. Is the the best driver at the moment?
There are a few drivers in the field who have better skills than he at
this point in time.
<<Jeff still beat Terry in the final race!>>
Bobby Labonte beat everyone in Atlanta. Does this mean he should be
the 1996 champ? Jeff Gordon also had more DNF's than Terry. Would you
like to see points have any type of effect on drivers who don't finish
at all?
Terry Labonte, as well, finshed the season with a higher average
finish than Jeff Gordon. The point system does somewhat work in your
favor, however. Dale Earnhardt had a higher average finish than Jeff
Gordon last year, but Jeff won the title by virture of bonus points.
<<Are there any plans to award the winner of a race more points?
This would help.>>
I agree that more reward must be placed on winning, but I think
NASCAR will try to artificially keep the field "level" for quite some
time. IndyCar and Formula One both reward the race winners considerably
more, but consistency and always being in the front mean a great deal as
well. Maybe penalizing those who don't finish at all can place more
emphasis on sheer consistency.
<<If the winner just received a bonus of 5 points, Jeff would have
won the championship.>>
Do the math and you'll find that you are wrong. Terry Labonte
finished with 4657 points. Jeff Gordon finished with 4620. Give Jeff 50
extra points and he has 4670. Give Terry 20 extra points and he has
4677. Sorry... Jeff still loses.
Heck, even if you do the math under the mistaken assumption you had
about Terry Labonte only winning one race then Terry would still win by
two points. Did you forget that all drivers, not just Jeff Gordon,
recieve a 5 point bonus for winning under your system?
<<My 2 cents, Richard. (Canadian Nascar Fan)>>
Shouldn't that be 24 cents?
Nick
_______________________________________________________________
#6 & #94 in the quest for the Cup
My home away from home... http://www.mindspring.com/~ntotoro/
_______________________________________________________________
AND...@vm.sc.edu
>> <<If the winner just received a bonus of 5 points, Jeff would have
>> won the championship.>>
>>
>> Do the math and you'll find that you are wrong. Terry Labonte
>> finished with 4657 points. Jeff Gordon finished with 4620. Give Jeff 50
>> extra points and he has 4670. Give Terry 20 extra points and he has
>> 4677. Sorry... Jeff still loses.
Jeff: 4620 + 50 = 4670
Terry: 4657 + 10 = 4667 Sorry... Terry loses.
Lee
lee.aa...@sc.edu
Regular Joe
Richard M.M. Ray wrote:
>
> Is it just me or does anybody else think that the best driver did not
> only won 1. Don't get me wrong, Terry is a great driver and a first class
> guy, but Gordon is clearly the best nascar driver at the moment. Jeff still
> beat Terry in the final race!
>
> won the championship. I hope Nascar takes a close look at how points are
> awarded and will make the necessary adjustments.
>
There will never be a points system that will satisfy everyone. It
would have been invented by now.
NASCAR's Winston Cup is very simple-- he who scores the most points
wins. So every week racers do their best to finish as high as
possible. You'll find that it's like this in almost every sport. In
the NFL, the champion is not the team with the best record, but the team
that wins the Super Bowl. College football champs are awarded by a
bunch of sportswriters and coaches. These are the rules each sport sets
up to win their respective championships.
--
Regular Joe
http://www.regularjoe.com
Regular Joe Sports Talk!!!
(If it ain't offending you, we ain't trying hard enough!)
George Lewis
rich...@mbnet.mb.ca (Richard M.M. Ray) wrote:
> Is it just me or does anybody else think that the best driver did not
>win the winston cup championship? Lets face it, Jeff won 10 races and Terry
>only won 1. Don't get me wrong, Terry is a great driver and a first class
>guy, but Gordon is clearly the best nascar driver at the moment. Jeff still
>beat Terry in the final race!
Actually, he won 2 races... North Wilkesboro, Spring Race, and
Charlotte, Fall Race. But your point is well taken.
If your logic followed true, however, Mark Martin should be crowned
BGN champion. He did, after all, win more races than Randy LaJoie.
Go #6 Mark Martin,#16 Ted Musgrave & #99 Jeff Burton - Jack Roush Racing!!
NASCAR Racing!!
gle...@usit.net
http://camalott.com/~sean/nascar/nascar.htm <--NASCAR Racing Sim page
Richard Scott
Anyone who wins 10 races should win the Championship. I can't stand the
Hendrick Team, but it's hard to argue Jeff dominated this year.
Wonder if Rusty is chuckling at this one..
Richard Scott
Nick Totoro <nto...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<328939...@mindspring.com>...
> Richard M.M. Ray wrote:
>
> <<Is it just me or does anybody else think that the best driver did
> not win the winston cup championship?>>
>
> Eh? You mean Jeff Gordon could have won the title without his team
> or his crew chief? He could have done it all by himself... set up the
> car... everything? The award goes for team effort. There is already a
> series where all drivers compete in the same cars and Mark Martin & Dale
> Earnhardt have two titles each. Martin is the '96 IROC champ.
> One thing is for sure... this group surely has no shortage of sore
> Jeff Gordon fans.
>
> <<Lets face it, Jeff won 10 races and Terry only won 1.>>
>
> Actually, Terry won two.
>
> <<Don't get me wrong, Terry is a great driver and a first class
> guy, but Gordon is clearly the best nascar driver at the moment.>>
>
> To whom, exactly, is that clear? Does he have talent? Absolutely...
> he has natural driving ability. Is the the best driver at the moment?
> There are a few drivers in the field who have better skills than he at
> this point in time.
>
> <<Jeff still beat Terry in the final race!>>
>
> Bobby Labonte beat everyone in Atlanta. Does this mean he should be
> the 1996 champ? Jeff Gordon also had more DNF's than Terry. Would you
> like to see points have any type of effect on drivers who don't finish
> at all?
> Terry Labonte, as well, finshed the season with a higher average
> finish than Jeff Gordon. The point system does somewhat work in your
> favor, however. Dale Earnhardt had a higher average finish than Jeff
> Gordon last year, but Jeff won the title by virture of bonus points.
>
> <<Are there any plans to award the winner of a race more points?
> This would help.>>
>
> I agree that more reward must be placed on winning, but I think
> NASCAR will try to artificially keep the field "level" for quite some
> time. IndyCar and Formula One both reward the race winners considerably
> more, but consistency and always being in the front mean a great deal as
> well. Maybe penalizing those who don't finish at all can place more
> emphasis on sheer consistency.
>
> <<If the winner just received a bonus of 5 points, Jeff would have
> won the championship.>>
>
> Do the math and you'll find that you are wrong. Terry Labonte
> finished with 4657 points. Jeff Gordon finished with 4620. Give Jeff 50
> extra points and he has 4670. Give Terry 20 extra points and he has
> 4677. Sorry... Jeff still loses.
> Heck, even if you do the math under the mistaken assumption you had
> about Terry Labonte only winning one race then Terry would still win by
> two points. Did you forget that all drivers, not just Jeff Gordon,
> recieve a 5 point bonus for winning under your system?
>
> <<My 2 cents, Richard. (Canadian Nascar Fan)>>
>
James Mc ginn
I am a jeff gordon fan and I think you are right about the points
breakdown but as of right now rules are rules by the way terry won 2
races.
Nick Totoro
AND...@VM.SC.EDU wrote:
> Jeff: 4620 + 50 = 4670
> Terry: 4657 + 10 = 4667 Sorry... Terry loses.
Heh, heh... my bad... it happens...
Nick
_______________________________________________________________
#6 and #94 in the quest for the Cup!
Wayne Harper
In article <56ai8s$m...@brtph500.bnr.ca>, w...@bnr.ca (William M. Hudson) writes:
|>
|> Okay, let's hear it. Everyone said Rusty Wallace was crying
|> when he won the most races (8 & 10) two years in a row
|> and DID NOT win the championship. Back then everyone was
|> proposing several "questionable" points changes that
|> awarded the winner more points.
|>
|> Let me be the first to tell the Gordon fans to
|>
|> QUIT CRYING!!
|>
|> All the drivers know what the point system is going
|> into every season. Terry did what he had to do to win the
|> championship. Gordon needs to work on the DNF's. That's the
|> same problem Wallace had (and still does) when he won the most
|> races. A win does not make up for a DNF! In this case 8
|> more wins does not make up for 2 more DNFs!!!!
Good point. Eight more wins does not make up for two more DNFs.
Question: is that the way it should be? Whatever, the season's
over -- no cryin from this Gordon fan. Nothing to cry about.
Gordon's season was spectacular. In addition to the ten wins, what
impressed me was how dominate he was goin to the front leading races.
And his short track record -- his supposed weakness -- was incredible.
No doubt about it, the extra two DNFs cost him the WCup, but DNFs
are part of the game, and more a result of (bad) luck than any other
factor. BTW, how does a team 'work' on DNFs? I mean, what could a
team do differently to eliminate DNFs? If you have any answers, send
your resume to Hendrick Motorsports.
|>
|> Bottom line, The 5 TEAM was the best over the entire season!
True. By a whopping 1.1935 pts/race.
Wayne #3 #24 #25 Monte!
William M. Hudson
Wayne Harper writes:
>In article <56ai8s$m...@brtph500.bnr.ca>, w...@bnr.ca (William M. Hudson) writes:
>|>
>|> Okay, let's hear it. Everyone said Rusty Wallace was crying
>|> when he won the most races (8 & 10) two years in a row
>|> and DID NOT win the championship. Back then everyone was
>|> proposing several "questionable" points changes that
>|> awarded the winner more points.
>|>
[snip]
>|>
>|> Bottom line, The 5 TEAM was the best over the entire season!
>
>True. By a whopping 1.1935 pts/race.
>
>Wayne #3 #24 #25 Monte!
That "whopping" 1.1935 pts/race also gave him a "whopping"
$1,080,000.00 more in the Points Fund.
So does hurt more to win or lose by a "whopping" 1.1935 pts/race?
That's less than a posisiton each race. That's gotta be killing the
24 team.
Mark A. Breland
In article <56d453$8...@brtph500.bnr.ca>, w...@bnr.ca (William M. Hudson) writes:
>
[snip]
>So does hurt more to win or lose by a "whopping" 1.1935 pts/race?
>That's less than a posisiton each race. That's gotta be killing the
>24 team.
That begs the question: did JG lose the championship at the Daytona 500
or in bits and pieces along the way?
--
Mark A. Breland "Unless you want to finish last,
Racing, ranching, whatever... you got to kick a little!..."
Austin, Texas (Little Texas)
Voice/FAX: 512-389-3951 http://www.breland.com NB#51
B.J. Vosti
Richard M.M. Ray wrote:
>
> Is it just me or does anybody else think that the best driver did not
> only won 1. Don't get me wrong, Terry is a great driver and a first class
> guy, but Gordon is clearly the best nascar driver at the moment. Jeff still
> beat Terry in the final race!
>
> won the championship. I hope Nascar takes a close look at how points are
> awarded and will make the necessary adjustments.
>
Terry won 2. And wins doesn't equal consistency. By your logic if RW
would have won 11 races and finished dead last in all other races then
he should have been the champion.
--
B.J. Vosti
gvo...@slonet.org
#1 John Andretti Fan
Chip Calia
Everyone knows how the points are awarded at the beginning of the year.
Don't worry the Snot nosed kid will have more chances, he is a great
driver. I don't care for his work ethic but he can flat out drive. I
had the chance to be in the pits at the fall Bristol race. I watched
practice and saw Rusty and Dale (hurt) in practice. They would do
several laps, come back in the pits and immediatly go to each other and
talk about what was happening on the track. Then they would go back to
the team and WORK with the team on the car. The KID would go out do
some laps and go back to the trailer. It's a good thing he has a team.
Several highlights to this year with Ernie's "Polish victory lap" and
watching the Labonte brothers side by side victory lap at Atlanta.
Chip
Rusty Wallace in 97
Jim Mcelhinney
>There will never be a points system that will satisfy everyone. It
>would have been invented by now.
>
>NASCAR's Winston Cup is very simple-- he who scores the most points
>wins. So every week racers do their best to finish as high as
>possible. You'll find that it's like this in almost every sport. In
>the NFL, the champion is not the team with the best record, but the team
>that wins the Super Bowl. College football champs are awarded by a
>bunch of sportswriters and coaches. These are the rules each sport sets
>up to win their respective championships.
>--
>Regular Joe
>
>http://www.regularjoe.com
>Regular Joe Sports Talk!!!
>(If it ain't offending you, we ain't trying hard enough!)
But then again, you ain't gonna see an NFL team that only wins 2 games in the
playoffs against a team that wins 10! Rewarding consistency is fine, but the
reward for winning should count considerably more than it does for mediocrity.
* PowerEdit 2.5 Renegade Tagline!! We're tired of Being Kidnapped!!!
>>>>>>> Unregistered PowrMAIL v1.00 for PowerBBS. <<<<<<<
jrv7472
Richard M.M. Ray (rich...@mbnet.mb.ca) wrote:
: Is it just me or does anybody else think that the best driver did
: not win the winston cup championship? Lets face it, Jeff won 10 races
: and Terry only won 1. Don't get me wrong, Terry is a great driver and
: a first class guy, but Gordon is clearly the best nascar driver at the
: moment. Jeff still beat Terry in the final race!
:
: Are there any plans to award the winner of a race more points? This
: would help. If the winner just received a bonus of 5 points, Jeff
: would have won the championship. I hope Nascar takes a close look at
: how points are awarded and will make the necessary adjustments.
It might make sense to set up a system that rewards winning, or winning
poles, or doesn't reward one for leading just one lap, etc., etc. But, to
argue that a different system "proves" Jeff (or anyone) is better, is
wrong. Terry races the way he does BECAUSE that is the point system, one
that rewards consistency. He would try different things in qualifying,
set-up, race strategy, etc., if there was a different point system. It is
similar to Braves fans arguing that Yankees didn't really win the World
Series, because if they had the old play-off system, Cleveland would have
beaten them in the regular season.
And Terry won two races, not one.
-jv/nyc
dct...@erols.com
Granted, Jeff Gordon is a great driver proven by his performance on
Sunday. However, he also has the best crew chief in the business right
now in Ray E. Whatever the argument, NASCAR will always be a team sport
and the best overall team won the championship. Also, it took
one helluva driver to drive that many laps with a broken finger.
Congrats go out to Terry and the gang!
Darrell
dct...@erols.com
nwlo...@binghamton.edu
I would like to add my 2 cents to that too!
Nancy (Southern New York NASCAR Fan)
On Tue, 12 Nov 1996, Richard M.M. Ray wrote:
> Is it just me or does anybody else think that the best driver did not
> win the winston cup championship? Lets face it, Jeff won 10 races and Terry
> only won 1. Don't get me wrong, Terry is a great driver and a first class
> guy, but Gordon is clearly the best nascar driver at the moment. Jeff still
> beat Terry in the final race!
>
> Are there any plans to award the winner of a race more points? This
> would help. If the winner just received a bonus of 5 points, Jeff would have
> won the championship. I hope Nascar takes a close look at how points are
> awarded and will make the necessary adjustments.
>
Wayne Harper
|>
|> >In article <56ai8s$m...@brtph500.bnr.ca>, w...@bnr.ca (William M. Hudson) writes:
|> >|>
|> >|> Okay, let's hear it. Everyone said Rusty Wallace was crying
|> >|> when he won the most races (8 & 10) two years in a row
|> >|> and DID NOT win the championship. Back then everyone was
|> >|> proposing several "questionable" points changes that
|> >|> awarded the winner more points.
|> >|>
|>
|> [snip]
|>
|> >|>
|> >|> Bottom line, The 5 TEAM was the best over the entire season!
|> >
|> >True. By a whopping 1.1935 pts/race.
|> >
|> >Wayne #3 #24 #25 Monte!
|>
|> That "whopping" 1.1935 pts/race also gave him a "whopping"
|> $1,080,000.00 more in the Points Fund.
|>
|> That's less than a posisiton each race. That's gotta be killing the
|> ^^^^^^^
Probably more than it's killing the #2 team! BTW, where was Rusty this
season?
Richard Scott
> [snip]
> >guy, but Gordon is clearly the best nascar driver at the moment. Jeff
still
>
> And yet Terry gathered more championship points than Jeff.
>
> Keeping score somehow has a way of getting in the way of opinion. ;-)
It makes an interesting question. Winning isn't important as good finishes
in WC.
This is still something I don't care for. A guy who wins 5 times as many
races as another driver and doesn't win the championship? Time to give more
points for victories, or they turn meaningless. I'd personally rather see a
race where they want to win, and aren't more concerned with points and the
'big picture'
My .02 cents
Richard Scott
Carl Zager
On 14 Nov 1996, Richard Scott wrote:
> It makes an interesting question. Winning isn't important as good finishes
> in WC.
> This is still something I don't care for. A guy who wins 5 times as many
> races as another driver and doesn't win the championship? Time to give more
> points for victories, or they turn meaningless. I'd personally rather see a
> race where they want to win, and aren't more concerned with points and the
> 'big picture'
One piece mentioned earlier in this thread that bears repeating: WC has
pretty much the same mix of drivers each race. Would there be 40+ cars
trying to qualify every race if someone could win the championship by
running and winning 10-12 specific races? There was a time when some of
the teams only ran the superspeedways, 'cause that's where they did well.
Others only ran the short tracks. The full season teams were far fewer
than they are now. WC "promises" a shot at the field for all of our
favorite drivers, and, barring a qualification disaster (and no
provisional), we're likely to see the same high-profile drivers and teams
at every race.
WC may not have the best solution to keeping drivers at the tracks and in
the hunt for the title, but at least the present formula provides a
quality show every race.
:: Carl
Carl Zager o o o o . . . Pine 3.91
O
||_____ ==== ______ __o_o___
Bloomington, Indiana, USA >(________|14| |_A J__| (__FOYT__)
cza...@bloomington.in.us _/oo OOOOO oo`- oo oo`- oo oo`-
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-HOME PAGE: http://www.mccsc.edu/~czager/
Kenneth Plotkin
In article <568k23$r...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>,
Richard M.M. Ray <rich...@mbnet.mb.ca> wrote:
[snip]
>guy, but Gordon is clearly the best nascar driver at the moment. Jeff still
[snip]
And yet Terry gathered more championship points than Jeff.
Keeping score somehow has a way of getting in the way of opinion. ;-)
Ken Plotkin
Troy Allen Nolen
: Quit whining, Terry won, he didnt DNF 6 races, thats why he won.
: He deserves it. watch out next year, Earnhardt is back, he is the only
: one to pass Jeff Gordon All day in Atlanta
broot
In article <568k23$r...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>, rich...@mbnet.mb.ca (Richard M.M. Ray) wrote:
> Is it just me or does anybody else think that the best driver did not
>win the winston cup championship? Lets face it, Jeff won 10 races and Terry
>only won 1. Don't get me wrong, Terry is a great driver and a first class
>
> Are there any plans to award the winner of a race more points? This
>would help. If the winner just received a bonus of 5 points, Jeff would have
>won the championship. I hope Nascar takes a close look at how points are
>awarded and will make the necessary adjustments.
>
>My 2 cents, Richard. (Canadian Nascar Fan)
>
like Gordon at daytona and rockingham
David Starr
On 14 Nov 1996 16:24:23 GMT, "Richard Scott" <rsc...@applink.net>
wrote:
--->It makes an interesting question. Winning isn't important as good
finishes
--->in WC.
--->This is still something I don't care for. A guy who wins 5 times
as many
--->races as another driver and doesn't win the championship? Time to
give more
--->points for victories, or they turn meaningless. I'd personally
rather see a
--->race where they want to win, and aren't more concerned with points
and the
--->'big picture'
--->
--->My .02 cents
--->
--->Richard Scott
Want to make things interesting?
1st 100 points
2nd 90
3rd 80
etc
10th 10 points
NO points below 10th!!
Think we'd see more racing to get intp the top 10??
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Professional Shop Rat - 32 years in an Auto Plant
Dennis Zadra
This same argument came up back in 1985 when Bill Elliott totaly dominated
the season. He had the best team, car, engine etc. But still lost
the championship the DW, because Bill was not consistent on short tracks.
I think he won 10 races that year and the Winston Million. I still
believe the greatest race was Talledega that same year when Bill came
from two laps down, got the laps back under green no caution help, and
won the race. Only my opinion.
Consistency is what will win the championship, and that is what NASCAR
wants for the fansupport.
Dennis
Tammy R. Benscoter
It is not just you. I agree, Jeff should be the champion. He deserves it
after all the races he won. He had some hard times which are to be
expected but, it was probably the hardest for him to loose like that. The
NASCAR points system is entirely unfair.
tab
Wade Stanfield
The team that was the BEST for 31 races won the championship,
not the team that was best for 10 races. That is just the way the
system is designed....and it works as planned.
Congratulations to Terry AND the entire Kelloggs TEAM.
--
Wade Stanfield
#1 Fan of #5
Terry Labonte Fan Page
http://www.cris.com/~Wstanfie/terry.shtml
marty
Carl Zager wrote:
>
> On 14 Nov 1996, Richard Scott wrote:
> > This is still something I don't care for. A guy who wins 5 times as many
>
> One piece mentioned earlier in this thread that bears repeating: WC has
> pretty much the same mix of drivers each race. Would there be 40+ cars
> trying to qualify every race if someone could win the championship by
> running and winning 10-12 specific races? There was a time when some of
> the teams only ran the superspeedways, 'cause that's where they did well.
> Others only ran the short tracks. The full season teams were far fewer
> than they are now. WC "promises" a shot at the field for all of our
> favorite drivers, and, barring a qualification disaster (and no
> provisional), we're likely to see the same high-profile drivers and teams
> at every race.
>
> WC may not have the best solution to keeping drivers at the tracks and in
> the hunt for the title, but at least the present formula provides a
> quality show every race.
>
> :: Carl
> Carl Zager o o o o . . . Pine 3.91
> O
> ||_____ ==== ______ __o_o___
> Bloomington, Indiana, USA >(________|14| |_A J__| (__FOYT__)
> cza...@bloomington.in.us _/oo OOOOO oo`- oo oo`- oo oo`-
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-HOME PAGE: http://www.mccsc.edu/~czager/
the 'quality' part sometimes, only reinforces THE CALL!! The "Bobby
and Terry Show" was true WWF racing. IMHO.
JStrong
On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Wade Stanfield wrote:
> The team that was the BEST for 31 races won the championship,
> not the team that was best for 10 races. That is just the way the
> system is designed....and it works as planned.
>
> Congratulations to Terry AND the entire Kelloggs TEAM.
>
Oh I beg to differ... The team that was the BEST for 31 races won the
championship, not the team that was best for 30 races! We all know the
DNF's of the 24 team killed their chances.
Gary Christopher
B.J. Vosti
Yes, but last year Indianapolis ( 9-7 ) could have faced the Cowboys (
12-4 ? ) had it not been for a near Hail mary pass.
Daniel Alain Nazar
> But then again, you ain't gonna see an NFL team that only wins 2 games in the
> playoffs against a team that wins 10! Rewarding consistency is fine, but the
> reward for winning should count considerably more than it does for mediocrity.
The difference here being that in each game there is a CERTAINLY defined
"winner" and "loser" instead of 40 different rankings that a team can get.
Coming in second place in football is finishing last; in NASCAR, it is
far from finishing last. It is 2nd place, the only sport where that
position has dignity.
dan the nascar man
dan...@jove.acs.unt.edu
http://www.unt.edu/~daniel/nascar/nascar.html
Go #88, hard chargin for the points lead!
Go #2, we race for beer!
Ford: The winningest manufacturer in Winston Cup!
As I head out to the track
to be the leader of the pack
If I should wreck before I win
God help the soul who made me spin.
bif...@aol.com
>
> But then again, you ain't gonna see an NFL team that only wins 2 games
in the
> playoffs against a team that wins 10! Rewarding consistency is fine, but
the
> reward for winning should count considerably more than it does for
mediocrity.
>
AND then again, in an NFL situation, it's win or LOSE. There's no second
or third or 24th place.One team against one - not against 37-42 others!
And Jeff had several DNFs and 35-42nd places last year - you can't compare
apples and oranges!
NASCAR - everything else is JUST a GAME!!
Biffan
tin...@aol.com
> But then again, you ain't gonna see an NFL team that only wins 2 games
in the
> playoffs against a team that wins 10! Rewarding consistency is fine, but
the
> reward for winning should count considerably more than it does for
mediocrity.
Then again, if the NFL played 31 games you wouldn't see a team that only
won 10 games make the playoffs.
Tinadog says: THIS IS NOT THE NFL!!! NFL = TWO TEAMS = 1 WINNER, 1
LOSER. NASCAR = 40 TEAMS = 1 WINNER, EVERYONE ELSE ON THE LEAD LAP ALMOST
WON, ONLY THOSE TEAMS THAT DROPPED OUT EARLY ARE LOSERS. JG HAD 5
DNF'S...HE WAS A LOSER 5 TIMES. TL HAD THREE DNF'S...HE WAS A LOSER 3
TIMES. LOOK AT THE FINAL POINT STANDINGS...FIGURE IT OUT!!!
If there is anyone out there with year by years results for most wins
please post them so we can figure out who really deserves the
championship. I know RW won the *real* championship in 1993 and 1994 (not
DE), but what about the rest of the years? Someone must have the
stats...please...PLEASE post them!!
ralph derickson
ma...@breland.com (Mark A. Breland) wrote:
>
>
> In article <56d453$8...@brtph500.bnr.ca>, w...@bnr.ca (William M. Hudson) writes:
> >
>
>
> >So does hurt more to win or lose by a "whopping" 1.1935 pts/race?
> >That's less than a posisiton each race. That's gotta be killing the
> >24 team.
>
> or in bits and pieces along the way?
>
> --
> Mark A. Breland "Unless you want to finish last,
> Racing, ranching, whatever... you got to kick a little!..."
> Austin, Texas (Little Texas)
> Voice/FAX: 512-389-3951 http://www.breland.com NB#51
>
>
Yes. I think so.
Kentucky (it all counts toward 20) Ralph
Paul David Cooper
On Sat, 16 Nov 1996, JStrong wrote:
> Oh I beg to differ... The team that was the BEST for 31 races won the
> championship, not the team that was best for 30 races! We all know the
> DNF's of the 24 team killed their chances.
>
> Gary Christopher
That may be so. But that's just part of nascar racing. It was the DNF's
that Labonte *didn't* have that determined him the victor in the end.
That is what made him the better of the two.
A lot of credit should go to his crew for his consistent performances.
I remember one race (think it was the Bud at the Glen, correct me if I'm
wrong) that he had clutch troubles at the very beginning and lost
positions in the early going. Terry came in and his mechanic had it fixed
without even putting him a lap down. In the end it made the difference as
#5 fought from the back to finish 2nd. If he had to go a lap or two down,
things wouldn't have turned out as good.
Congratulations Terry and crew!! Good luck next year!
Paul.
Lynwood Matteson
ca>:
Distribution:
Paul David Cooper (h65...@morgan.ucs.mun.ca) wrote:
:
:
I don't remember what race it was, but I'm 99% certain it wasn't the Glen.
From my mental image, it had to be a race where the cars pitted
"normally", as I remember the crew member going in through the drivers
side to fix it. This would put the cameraman out in the pit lane to shoot
it, and that ain't gonna happen. I'm guessing Richmond or Dove (with Dover
slightly ahead :))
Lynn
Scott Lamb
In <56slas$g...@mark.ucdavis.edu>, itlc...@rocky.ucdavis.edu (Lynwood Matteson) writes:
>ca>:
<snip>
>I don't remember what race it was, but I'm 99% certain it wasn't the Glen.
> Lynn
No Lynn, this was Martinsville in the fall, crew made a great save.
IMNSHO, this is the race that won TL the title.
Lambo
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Lamb "If you're gonna be dumb,
Kyle 44 ya gotta be tough" - anonymous
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Totoro
Sean wrote:
<<I do believe JG was 2 laps down. That means that JG had to pass
DE at least twice in less than 50 laps to be back in the top 10 (which
he was) at Atlanta.>>
In spirit? Possibly. In the literal sense? No. Jeff Gordon started
on the inside front row on each of the two restarts with which he earned
back his lost laps. He got in front of the #18 and stayed there, getting
his laps back when the caution came out and he got the two laps back
fron the caution periods.
I'm not trying to take away anything the team accomplished, they
obviously had a great car at that point, but he in no way passed the
field twice (of which DE was a part) to get back on the lead lap. That
would have been next to impossible without the caution flags.
Nick
_______________________________________________________________
#6 & #94 in the quest for the Cup
My home away from home... http://www.mindspring.com/~ntotoro/
_______________________________________________________________
Sean
I do believe JG was 2 laps down. That means that JG had to pass DE at
least twice in less than 50 laps to be back in the top 10 (which he
was) at Atlanta.
Zk...@concentric.net
http://www.concentric.net/~Zkeys
Sean & Teri
Life has a soundtrack. Turn it up!!!
bn...@maplecity.com
> > Oh I beg to differ... The team that was the BEST for 31 races won the
> > championship, not the team that was best for 30 races! We all know the
> > DNF's of the 24 team killed their chances.
> > Gary Christopher
> That may be so. But that's just part of nascar racing. It was the DNF's
> that Labonte *didn't* have that determined him the victor in the end.
> That is what made him the better of the two.
> A lot of credit should go to his crew for his consistent performances.
> I remember one race (think it was the Bud at the Glen, correct me if I'm
> wrong) that he had clutch troubles at the very beginning and lost
> positions in the early going. Terry came in and his mechanic had it fixed
> without even putting him a lap down. In the end it made the difference as
> #5 fought from the back to finish 2nd. If he had to go a lap or two down,
> things wouldn't have turned out as good.
> Congratulations Terry and crew!! Good luck next year!
> Paul.
The DNF's did hurt but not everything was Gordon's or his team's fault.
Looking at daytona where he got ran over by Mayfield.
And there crtainly wasn't anything Evernham and crew could have done about
what happened at Indy. But for that matter, who basically took over the win at
'Dega in July after the wreck, Gordon won where Terry finished 27th.
It works both ways.
But we're really just arguing about why Terry won the championship, and why
Gordon didn't lose it.
Brian Kinkaid
Brian Gannon
I'm sure he and Rusty Wallace would agree with you
Brian Gannon
On Wed, 13 Nov 1996 19:46:07 GMT, ma...@breland.com (Mark A. Breland)
wrote:
Dont forget the Brickyard either 10 places at either and he would be
champ
Brian Gannon
On 13 Nov 1996 15:33:46 GMT, jrv...@is.nyu.edu (jrv7472) wrote:
>Richard M.M. Ray (rich...@mbnet.mb.ca) wrote:
>: Is it just me or does anybody else think that the best driver did
>: not win the winston cup championship? Lets face it, Jeff won 10 races
>: and Terry only won 1. Don't get me wrong, Terry is a great driver and
>: a first class guy, but Gordon is clearly the best nascar driver at the
>: moment. Jeff still beat Terry in the final race!
>:
>: Are there any plans to award the winner of a race more points? This
>: would help. If the winner just received a bonus of 5 points, Jeff
>: would have won the championship. I hope Nascar takes a close look at
>: how points are awarded and will make the necessary adjustments.
>
>It might make sense to set up a system that rewards winning, or winning
>poles, or doesn't reward one for leading just one lap, etc., etc. But, to
>argue that a different system "proves" Jeff (or anyone) is better, is
>wrong. Terry races the way he does BECAUSE that is the point system, one
>that rewards consistency. He would try different things in qualifying,
>set-up, race strategy, etc., if there was a different point system. It is
>similar to Braves fans arguing that Yankees didn't really win the World
>Series, because if they had the old play-off system, Cleveland would have
>beaten them in the regular season.
>
>And Terry won two races, not one.
>
And Cleveland would be World Champs because they had the best record
in baseball
Alex & Gina Moulder
broot <br...@mountain.net> wrote in article
<56g57l$g...@news.mountain.net>...
> In article <568k23$r...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>, rich...@mbnet.mb.ca
(Richard M.M. Ray) wrote:
> > Are there any plans to award the winner of a race more points?
This
> >would help. If the winner just received a bonus of 5 points, Jeff would
have
> >won the championship. I hope Nascar takes a close look at how points
are
> >awarded and will make the necessary adjustments.
> >
> >My 2 cents, Richard. (Canadian Nascar Fan)
> >
> maybe they should take five extra points away if you finish last
>
> like Gordon at daytona and rockingham
>
They should also take 7.5 points away from the drivers total if he finishes
in 15th or 16th position. :)
Now in all seriousness, TL won the big prize with the rules which existed
at the time. JG will be a top contender A LOT longer that TL in the long
run. Hell, he has won just as many races in 4 years than TL has in his 10+
extra years of racing. Let's all just take advantage of the couple months
rest before JG continues to completely dominate the entire WC racing
circuit as he has in the past TWO years. JG's bad luck is all that kept
most fans interested through the '96 season. One break in his favor and he
would have easily continued the reign through 1997. There will be more
chances for he is 'Da Man!!!
David Luoto
It's obvious Jeff Gordon should have won; didn't you hear him say how he
had God on his side whenever he won a race? I wonder where God was on the
days Jeffy didn't win? They're keeping a special corner of hell extra hot
for hypocrites like this!
Richard Scott <rsc...@applink.net> wrote in article
<01bbd111$7b0cb460$782895ce@sauron>...
> Anyone who wins 10 races should win the Championship. I can't stand the
> Hendrick Team, but it's hard to argue Jeff dominated this year.
>
> Wonder if Rusty is chuckling at this one..
>
> Richard Scott
>
> Nick Totoro <nto...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
> <328939...@mindspring.com>...
> > Richard M.M. Ray wrote:
> >
> > <<Is it just me or does anybody else think that the best driver
did
> > not win the winston cup championship?>>
> >
> > Eh? You mean Jeff Gordon could have won the title without his team
> > or his crew chief? He could have done it all by himself... set up the
> > car... everything? The award goes for team effort. There is already a
> > series where all drivers compete in the same cars and Mark Martin &
Dale
> > Earnhardt have two titles each. Martin is the '96 IROC champ.
> > One thing is for sure... this group surely has no shortage of sore
> > Jeff Gordon fans.
> >
> > <<Lets face it, Jeff won 10 races and Terry only won 1.>>
> >
> > Actually, Terry won two.
> >
> > <<Don't get me wrong, Terry is a great driver and a first class
> > guy, but Gordon is clearly the best nascar driver at the moment.>>
> >
> > To whom, exactly, is that clear? Does he have talent?
Absolutely...
> > he has natural driving ability. Is the the best driver at the moment?
> > There are a few drivers in the field who have better skills than he at
> > this point in time.
> >
> > <<Jeff still beat Terry in the final race!>>
> >
> > Bobby Labonte beat everyone in Atlanta. Does this mean he should
be
> > the 1996 champ? Jeff Gordon also had more DNF's than Terry. Would you
> > like to see points have any type of effect on drivers who don't finish
> > at all?
> > Terry Labonte, as well, finshed the season with a higher average
> > finish than Jeff Gordon. The point system does somewhat work in your
> > favor, however. Dale Earnhardt had a higher average finish than Jeff
> > Gordon last year, but Jeff won the title by virture of bonus points.
> >
> > <<Are there any plans to award the winner of a race more points?
> > This would help.>>
> >
> > I agree that more reward must be placed on winning, but I think
> > NASCAR will try to artificially keep the field "level" for quite some
> > time. IndyCar and Formula One both reward the race winners considerably
> > more, but consistency and always being in the front mean a great deal
as
> > well. Maybe penalizing those who don't finish at all can place more
> > emphasis on sheer consistency.
> >
> > <<If the winner just received a bonus of 5 points, Jeff would have
> > won the championship.>>
> >
> > Do the math and you'll find that you are wrong. Terry Labonte
> > finished with 4657 points. Jeff Gordon finished with 4620. Give Jeff 50
> > extra points and he has 4670. Give Terry 20 extra points and he has
> > 4677. Sorry... Jeff still loses.
> > Heck, even if you do the math under the mistaken assumption you
had
> > about Terry Labonte only winning one race then Terry would still win by
> > two points. Did you forget that all drivers, not just Jeff Gordon,
> > recieve a 5 point bonus for winning under your system?
> >
> > <<My 2 cents, Richard. (Canadian Nascar Fan)>>
> >
> > Shouldn't that be 24 cents?
Dale Wright
In article <32951665...@news.concentric.net>, Bri...@concentric.net
says...
>
>On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:21:37 -0500, "Tammy R. Benscoter"
><trb...@planetx.bloomu.edu> wrote:
>
>>It is not just you. I agree, Jeff should be the champion. He deserves it
>>after all the races he won. He had some hard times which are to be
>>expected but, it was probably the hardest for him to loose like that. The
>>NASCAR points system is entirely unfair.
Gordon's efforts were short due to his first two races of the year. Remember
Labonte had the bag incidents at Daytona and Rockingham. I'm sure if the
system was different Labonte would have run more aggressive. Remember even
the 3 car lost some aggressiveness when running for points in the last couple
of championship years.
Dale
James Albert
A lot of credit should go to his crew for his consistent performances.
> I remember one race (think it was the Bud at the Glen, correct me if
I'm
> wrong) that he had clutch troubles at the very beginning and lost
> positions in the early going. Terry came in and his mechanic had it
fixed
> without even putting him a lap down. In the end it made the difference
as
> #5 fought from the back to finish 2nd. If he had to go a lap or two
down,
> things wouldn't have turned out as good.
> Congratulations Terry and crew!! Good luck next year!
I preety sure it was Martinsville.
Alex
"YoungGun"
WUW...@prodigy.com
ralph derickson
"David Luoto" <dave...@hutchtel.net> wrote:
>
> It's obvious Jeff Gordon should have won; didn't you hear him say how he
> had God on his side whenever he won a race? I wonder where God was on the
(mucho snipping)
Having a bowl of corn flakes. After all, he's had
eternity to figure it out.
Kentucky (wanna' ' 'nother bowl maam/sir?) Ralph
Mike Schueller
Jim Mcelhinney (jim_mce...@dsolbbs.com) wrote:
:
: But then again, you ain't gonna see an NFL team that only wins 2 games in the
: reward for winning should count considerably more than it does for mediocrity.
Somehow, I just don't see Terry Labonte's finishing record as being
mediocre. I am by no means a big Terry Labonte fan, but the guy was one
helluva driver this year. He didn't win 10 races like Gordon, but
mediocre is just not the right word here. Give Labonte his due. He won
the Winston Cup Championship, and in the end, thats all that will be
remembered.
#43 STP Pontiac
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Schueller, Limnologist | Internet: msch...@uhl.uiowa.edu
The University of Iowa | Voice: (319) 335-4500 Ext. 2325
Oakdale Research Campus, OH-E116 | Fax: (319) 335-4555
Iowa City, IA 52242 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nasca...@aol.com
Consistancy wins Winston Cup Championships, not number of wins.
Crashing out of the first two races didn't help JG any either.
By the way, if JG was driving a car for an under funded team like Dave
Marcis, could he do as well? I am not a Marcis fan, that's just a good
example of a team that does not have the quality of car that JG has.
Daniel Alain Nazar
I tend to believe he wouldn't; that team, that crew chief have helped him
so much in the sport, given him everything he needed, taught him to drive
in Winston Cup properly.
dan the nascar man
dan...@jove.acs.unt.edu
http://www.unt.edu/~daniel/nascar/nascar.html
FORD: First On Race Day