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Is NASCAR going to be as dead as this group?
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Koko
Mar 9, 2015, 10:50:02 AM3/9/15
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That's a question one should ask. The low attendance is obvious as is the boredom of the Las Vegas race. Sad to see it all go downhill with regulations, qualifying and dumb reporting on Fox.
Pete Zahria
Mar 9, 2015, 7:00:02 PM3/9/15
to
in interest.
Things are not the same today as they were years ago.
Likes are different. Cars are different.
Entertainment options are way different.
If the rule structure was exactly the same as it was in the 70's,
I doubt the stands would be any more full than they are today...
Because the rules structure has little to do with attracting young blood.
You are either a closet motorhead, or you are not.
Getting people to the track, or watching on tv, is a challenge.
The very primitive aspect of a race, is just seeing cars go fast.
No matter what, until you get to the track for the first time,
or watch a race for the first time, knowing or not knowing what it
was like 30 years ago has no bearing on whether or not you stay.
I think NASCAR is trying all sorts of things to get people interested,
or make the sport more inviting. It is certainly more of a spectacle today
than it ever has been.
But that is what ticket buyers want. It's what the viewers want.
When you used to go to a pro game, the players just came out and played.
Now, they have to have music, and smoke, and lights.. that's what they want.
Gimmicks... to draw an audience.
Name of the game.
Times change, we need to deal with it.
Most of us don't have a clue of the challenges marketers face today
trying to sell a product.
NASCAR is a product.
--
Dan
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool,
than to speak out and remove all doubt."
bob.p...@gmail.com
Mar 10, 2015, 8:40:03 AM3/10/15
to
On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 7:00:02 PM UTC-4, Pete Zahria wrote:
> We really need to stop blaming NASCAR for 'all' of the decline
> in interest.
>
> Things are not the same today as they were years ago.
> Likes are different. Cars are different.
> Entertainment options are way different.
Clearly the wider variety of entertainment options available today is a big
> We really need to stop blaming NASCAR for 'all' of the decline
> in interest.
>
> Things are not the same today as they were years ago.
> Likes are different. Cars are different.
> Entertainment options are way different.
part of it. There are BUNCH more channels to watch on TV, and now people
stream stuff to a mobile device--a technology unheard of in what some people
call NASCAR's glory days.
Speaking only for myself, let me document why my interest in NASCAR isn't as
fervent as it once was.
I still watch on TV just about every week, but I hardly ever go to the track
in person any more. Before a friend gave me tickets to this year's Daytona 500,
I hadn't been to a race in person since 2001. The reason is simple. IT JUST
COSTS TOO DAMN MUCH! If they want fewer empty seats, they're going to have to
make it less expensive to attend the races in person.
My tickets were in Oldfield Tower. Nice and high, row 39. However, we were
well back from the pit entrance and could not see pit road at all. Could
barely see the start/finish line. Still, these seats were a whopping $170 each.
No way I'd pay that much to sit in the tower right at the S/F line.
When I started watching NASCAR in the late 60's there was fierce brand loyalty.
So much so that even Richard Petty lost a ton of fans when Plymouth fans just
couldn't pull for a Ford in 1969. Back then, models from Detroit's Big Three
were pretty much all you saw on the street.
I drove a Superbird on the street and pulled for any of the winged cars on the
track. Anybody in a Ford was a bad guy. Today, I drive a Hyundai and what brand of car he's in has no bearing at all on how much I like or dislike a
driver.
Drivers back in the day were just drivers. Today, they're all advertising
spokesmen. Doesn't matter who wins, the victory lane speech is always the
same--a litany of sponsor plugs. Only the actual names in the spiel are
different. There's really not that much difference between "plain vanilla"
Jimmie Johnson and "outlaw" Brad Keselowski.
Still, I don't think the sport is dying. Interest has certainly subsided from
the peak of the 80's and 90's, but it's not dying. Tracks may have been a bit
too ambitious in terms of adding seating capacity during the boom days, but
we're still doing OK compared to other pro sports.
NASCAR race tracks have never been on par with high end football and baseball
stadiums in terms of the amenities Joe Average Fan had access to. Daytona
Rising is certainly changing that, and I'd bet a ton of quatloos that Bruton
Smith isn't going to just sit idly by and not try to top it at one of his
premier venues.
It should be interesting to look back on this conversation, say ten years from
now.
John McCoy
Mar 10, 2015, 8:50:01 PM3/10/15
to
bob.p...@gmail.com wrote in
news:511d9374-8d28-4e80...@googlegroups.com:
> When I started watching NASCAR in the late 60's there was fierce brand
> loyalty. So much so that even Richard Petty lost a ton of fans when
> Plymouth fans just couldn't pull for a Ford in 1969. Back then,
> models from Detroit's Big Three were pretty much all you saw on the
> street.
This is a big thing. NASCAR race cars are no longer
identifiable as "stock" cars. Even the casual viewer
recognizes that they're not related to what he can buy
at the local dealer.
> Drivers back in the day were just drivers. Today, they're all
> advertising spokesmen. Doesn't matter who wins, the victory lane
> speech is always the same--a litany of sponsor plugs. Only the actual
> names in the spiel are different. There's really not that much
> difference between "plain vanilla" Jimmie Johnson and "outlaw" Brad
> Keselowski.
This is another big thing. When NASCAR chose to remove
the "stock" from the sport, and make all the cars and
engines a common design, they intended that fans would
develop driver loyalty instead of brand loyalty. But
then they made all the drivers the same.
> Still, I don't think the sport is dying. Interest has certainly
> subsided from the peak of the 80's and 90's, but it's not dying.
The problem is (from NASCAR's perspective) that most of
the interest is from committed fans, like you and Dan and
I (and maybe Koko). There's not a lot of interest from
casual fans. Joe Sixpack doesn't flip to the NASCAR race
and say "hey, that's my car, let's see if can beat those
other brands". He doesn't say "man, I heard that guy is
a tough ass, let's see if he gets into it today". What
he probably says is "commercial? Where's the remote, let's
see what's on channel 4".
As Dan says, what NASCAR's trying to do to combat that is
make it more of a "spectacle"(*). Us old time fans don't
generally care for that, we want a race, not a spectacle.
More to the point, what NASCAR's doing doesn't seem to be
drawing the casual fan to watch the race. At some point
you have to say "this isn't working, we need to try a
different tack".
John
(* I am reminded that late in the CART era, their president
said of the Miami race "people come for the spectacle, not
for the race". Of course, look at where CART is now...)
news:511d9374-8d28-4e80...@googlegroups.com:
> When I started watching NASCAR in the late 60's there was fierce brand
> loyalty. So much so that even Richard Petty lost a ton of fans when
> Plymouth fans just couldn't pull for a Ford in 1969. Back then,
> models from Detroit's Big Three were pretty much all you saw on the
> street.
identifiable as "stock" cars. Even the casual viewer
recognizes that they're not related to what he can buy
at the local dealer.
> Drivers back in the day were just drivers. Today, they're all
> advertising spokesmen. Doesn't matter who wins, the victory lane
> speech is always the same--a litany of sponsor plugs. Only the actual
> names in the spiel are different. There's really not that much
> difference between "plain vanilla" Jimmie Johnson and "outlaw" Brad
> Keselowski.
the "stock" from the sport, and make all the cars and
engines a common design, they intended that fans would
develop driver loyalty instead of brand loyalty. But
then they made all the drivers the same.
> Still, I don't think the sport is dying. Interest has certainly
> subsided from the peak of the 80's and 90's, but it's not dying.
the interest is from committed fans, like you and Dan and
I (and maybe Koko). There's not a lot of interest from
casual fans. Joe Sixpack doesn't flip to the NASCAR race
and say "hey, that's my car, let's see if can beat those
other brands". He doesn't say "man, I heard that guy is
a tough ass, let's see if he gets into it today". What
he probably says is "commercial? Where's the remote, let's
see what's on channel 4".
As Dan says, what NASCAR's trying to do to combat that is
make it more of a "spectacle"(*). Us old time fans don't
generally care for that, we want a race, not a spectacle.
More to the point, what NASCAR's doing doesn't seem to be
drawing the casual fan to watch the race. At some point
you have to say "this isn't working, we need to try a
different tack".
John
(* I am reminded that late in the CART era, their president
said of the Miami race "people come for the spectacle, not
for the race". Of course, look at where CART is now...)
Pete Zahria
Mar 12, 2015, 7:20:02 PM3/12/15
to
In article , John McCoy <igo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Us old time fans don't
>generally care for that, we want a race, not a spectacle.
>John
>Us old time fans don't
>generally care for that, we want a race, not a spectacle.
As you know, John, and I wouldn't say this on the other group,
going to races and having pretty much
all access is now not even enough to get me to many.
But in fairness, I think it's more that I am getting older,
and the "hassle" of getting there, getting around, etc.
just isn't as attractive anymore. Nothing to do with money..
I still like cars, I still like racing, but I enjoy them more at home
than at the track..
Even with the smaller crowds, it's still relative.
They are BIG crowds... just not as big...
John McCoy
Mar 13, 2015, 12:20:03 PM3/13/15
to
petez...@nospam.com (Pete Zahria) wrote in news:mdt6oa$vat$1
@speranza.aioe.org:
> As you know, John, and I wouldn't say this on the other group,
> going to races and having pretty much
> all access is now not even enough to get me to many.
> But in fairness, I think it's more that I am getting older,
> and the "hassle" of getting there, getting around, etc.
> just isn't as attractive anymore. Nothing to do with money..
> I still like cars, I still like racing, but I enjoy them more at home
> than at the track..
>
> Even with the smaller crowds, it's still relative.
> They are BIG crowds... just not as big...
Yes, I understand you completely - I don't care for crowds
either, especially the traffic clogs when it's over and you
want to leave.
My new job has me in Greensboro NC frequently, which is just
down the road from Bowman-Gray stadium. I have hopes later
this year to get to see the weekly show there. The locals
at the short tracks are often the best show going.
John
@speranza.aioe.org:
> As you know, John, and I wouldn't say this on the other group,
> going to races and having pretty much
> all access is now not even enough to get me to many.
> But in fairness, I think it's more that I am getting older,
> and the "hassle" of getting there, getting around, etc.
> just isn't as attractive anymore. Nothing to do with money..
> I still like cars, I still like racing, but I enjoy them more at home
> than at the track..
>
> Even with the smaller crowds, it's still relative.
> They are BIG crowds... just not as big...
either, especially the traffic clogs when it's over and you
want to leave.
My new job has me in Greensboro NC frequently, which is just
down the road from Bowman-Gray stadium. I have hopes later
this year to get to see the weekly show there. The locals
at the short tracks are often the best show going.
John
Pete Zahria
Mar 13, 2015, 8:50:02 PM3/13/15
to
>My new job has me in Greensboro NC frequently, which is just
>down the road from Bowman-Gray stadium. I have hopes later
>this year to get to see the weekly show there. The locals
>at the short tracks are often the best show going.
>
>John
>
Yeah. They are pretty good usually.
>down the road from Bowman-Gray stadium. I have hopes later
>this year to get to see the weekly show there. The locals
>at the short tracks are often the best show going.
>
>John
>
Most people just think that a race has to have
Jeff Gordon, or Tony Stewart etc. to be good.
Not realizing that all raced short tracks,
and were just as good then as now.
Put on just as good a show.
Just no glitz and glamour.....
The other thing that I have drifted away from,
is the need for an all day show..
Even sitting in a suite, out of the heat (or cold, or rain),
3-1/2 hour races get old...
(Now. More than years ago when we tailgated for breakfast
and were the last to leave!)
John McCoy
Apr 22, 2015, 9:30:03 PM4/22/15
to
"Mike Simmons" <mik...@yhti.net> wrote in
news:mh6o72$ecj$1...@dont-email.me:
> It's been awhile since I weighed in, but I for one have lost a lot of
> interest in NASCAR since Dodge pulled out. The similarity of the
> cars/rules/specs don't reward innovation (can you say Smokey Yunick?)
> as it once did.
Hey Mike, good to hear from you again.
I agree with what you say about innovation. One of NASCAR's
biggest failings in the Brian France/Mike Helton era is the
idea that they can specify every part, and only the specified
part can be used. What they should be doing is specifying
limits - no bigger than this, no smaller than that, no heavier,
no lighter - and let the teams design whatever they think is
best within those limits.
John
news:mh6o72$ecj$1...@dont-email.me:
> It's been awhile since I weighed in, but I for one have lost a lot of
> interest in NASCAR since Dodge pulled out. The similarity of the
> cars/rules/specs don't reward innovation (can you say Smokey Yunick?)
> as it once did.
Hey Mike, good to hear from you again.
I agree with what you say about innovation. One of NASCAR's
biggest failings in the Brian France/Mike Helton era is the
idea that they can specify every part, and only the specified
part can be used. What they should be doing is specifying
limits - no bigger than this, no smaller than that, no heavier,
no lighter - and let the teams design whatever they think is
best within those limits.
John
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