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Stewart not quite out of the woods yet....
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bob.p...@gmail.com
Sep 16, 2014, 4:30:03 PM9/16/14
to
Jayski posted a story saying the investigation into Kevin Ward's death is
complete and has been turned over to the local DA. The DA then announced that
he will take the case to a grand jury "in the near future". Clearly, the DA
thinks there's enough evidence to go after Tony.
Grand jury proceedings are confidential, so we won't know any more until after
it's over. Stewart has pledged his continued co-operation. I'd think things
are not looking too good for Tony.
complete and has been turned over to the local DA. The DA then announced that
he will take the case to a grand jury "in the near future". Clearly, the DA
thinks there's enough evidence to go after Tony.
Grand jury proceedings are confidential, so we won't know any more until after
it's over. Stewart has pledged his continued co-operation. I'd think things
are not looking too good for Tony.
John McCoy
Sep 16, 2014, 8:00:03 PM9/16/14
to
bob.p...@gmail.com wrote in
news:daa46812-b2cd-4a00...@googlegroups.com:
> Jayski posted a story saying the investigation into Kevin Ward's death
> is complete and has been turned over to the local DA. The DA then
> announced that he will take the case to a grand jury "in the near
> future". Clearly, the DA thinks there's enough evidence to go after
> Tony.
It's actually hard to say. If the evidence is obvious, the DA
doesn't have to go to a grand jury, he can go straight to the
indictment. Going to a grand jury could mean one of two things:
either he isn't confident there's cause to indict; or because
of the visibility of the case he wants someone else to be
responsible.
Unfortunate for Stewart, either way.
John
news:daa46812-b2cd-4a00...@googlegroups.com:
> Jayski posted a story saying the investigation into Kevin Ward's death
> is complete and has been turned over to the local DA. The DA then
> announced that he will take the case to a grand jury "in the near
> future". Clearly, the DA thinks there's enough evidence to go after
> Tony.
doesn't have to go to a grand jury, he can go straight to the
indictment. Going to a grand jury could mean one of two things:
either he isn't confident there's cause to indict; or because
of the visibility of the case he wants someone else to be
responsible.
Unfortunate for Stewart, either way.
John
bob.p...@gmail.com
Sep 16, 2014, 9:40:02 PM9/16/14
to
On Tuesday, September 16, 2014 8:00:03 PM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:
> It's actually hard to say. If the evidence is obvious, the DA
> doesn't have to go to a grand jury, he can go straight to the
> indictment. Going to a grand jury could mean one of two things:
> either he isn't confident there's cause to indict; or because
> of the visibility of the case he wants someone else to be
> responsible.
There was a legal expert on NASCAR America tonight who said pretty much the
> It's actually hard to say. If the evidence is obvious, the DA
> doesn't have to go to a grand jury, he can go straight to the
> indictment. Going to a grand jury could mean one of two things:
> either he isn't confident there's cause to indict; or because
> of the visibility of the case he wants someone else to be
> responsible.
same thing. Going to a grand jury is how DA's avoid personal responsibility
when there are strong feelings on both sides of a highly visible case.
>
> Unfortunate for Stewart, either way.
>
is entirely responsible for Ward's death. If the kid had stayed in his car
instead of running out into harm's way, he'd still be alive.
John McCoy
Sep 17, 2014, 10:00:02 AM9/17/14
to
bob.p...@gmail.com wrote in
news:58e1380c-f762-48b0...@googlegroups.com:
> If the kid had
> stayed in his car instead of running out into harm's way, he'd still
> be alive.
Yeah...of course, you can come up with a dozen other "if"s. If
Ward had stayed in his car. If Ward hadn't pressed the issue
when Stewart passed him, jumped the cushion, and spun. If they'd
been racing late models with fenders instead of open wheel sprints.
And so on.
I think it's 50-50 if the grand jury indicts. I think it's a
very low chance of conviction, tho. Probably the biggest
impact here is how the Ward family approaches their civil suit
for wrongful death.
John
news:58e1380c-f762-48b0...@googlegroups.com:
> If the kid had
> stayed in his car instead of running out into harm's way, he'd still
> be alive.
Ward had stayed in his car. If Ward hadn't pressed the issue
when Stewart passed him, jumped the cushion, and spun. If they'd
been racing late models with fenders instead of open wheel sprints.
And so on.
I think it's 50-50 if the grand jury indicts. I think it's a
very low chance of conviction, tho. Probably the biggest
impact here is how the Ward family approaches their civil suit
for wrongful death.
John
bob.p...@gmail.com
Sep 17, 2014, 3:40:02 PM9/17/14
to
On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 10:00:02 AM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:
>
> I think it's 50-50 if the grand jury indicts. I think it's a
> very low chance of conviction, tho. Probably the biggest
> impact here is how the Ward family approaches their civil suit
> for wrongful death.
>
If I understand correctly, a grand jury doesn't really try the case. They just
>
> I think it's 50-50 if the grand jury indicts. I think it's a
> very low chance of conviction, tho. Probably the biggest
> impact here is how the Ward family approaches their civil suit
> for wrongful death.
>
look at the evidence and decide if there's enough there to proceed to trial.
If they do go on, I expect it will get pleaded down to a misdemeanor of some
kind.
I agree Tony's biggest problem isn't going to be staying out of jail. It's
going to be coughing up the millions the Wards will win in a civil suit.
Pete Zahria
Sep 17, 2014, 5:00:02 PM9/17/14
to
In article bob.p...@gmail.com wrote:
>I agree Tony's biggest problem isn't going to be staying out of jail. It's
>going to be coughing up the millions the Wards will win in a civil suit.
They'll get 50% of the award, more than likely TS will be 50% to blame,
>I agree Tony's biggest problem isn't going to be staying out of jail. It's
>going to be coughing up the millions the Wards will win in a civil suit.
and the lawyers will get 33% of that.
Who knows.
John McCoy
Sep 17, 2014, 9:00:02 PM9/17/14
to
bob.p...@gmail.com wrote in
news:34e1ff27-812b-4253...@googlegroups.com:
> On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 10:00:02 AM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:
>
>>
>> I think it's 50-50 if the grand jury indicts. I think it's a
>> very low chance of conviction, tho. Probably the biggest
>> impact here is how the Ward family approaches their civil suit
>> for wrongful death.
>>
>
> If I understand correctly, a grand jury doesn't really try the case.
> They just look at the evidence and decide if there's enough there to
> proceed to trial. If they do go on, I expect it will get pleaded down
> to a misdemeanor of some kind.
Yes, that's my understanding too. The grand jury decides if
the case should go to trial. Then a completely different set
of judge, jury, etc actually try the case.
As I said, I think it's 50-50 the grand jury will send the case
to trial. I don't think the trial jury will find enough to
convict, if it does go to trial. You do raise a good question
about a plea, tho - on the one hand, agreeing to a plea deal
gets the case over with for Stewart. On the other hand, a plea
deal could be seen as admission of guilt in the civil trial.
John
news:34e1ff27-812b-4253...@googlegroups.com:
> On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 10:00:02 AM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:
>
>>
>> I think it's 50-50 if the grand jury indicts. I think it's a
>> very low chance of conviction, tho. Probably the biggest
>> impact here is how the Ward family approaches their civil suit
>> for wrongful death.
>>
>
> If I understand correctly, a grand jury doesn't really try the case.
> They just look at the evidence and decide if there's enough there to
> proceed to trial. If they do go on, I expect it will get pleaded down
> to a misdemeanor of some kind.
the case should go to trial. Then a completely different set
of judge, jury, etc actually try the case.
As I said, I think it's 50-50 the grand jury will send the case
to trial. I don't think the trial jury will find enough to
convict, if it does go to trial. You do raise a good question
about a plea, tho - on the one hand, agreeing to a plea deal
gets the case over with for Stewart. On the other hand, a plea
deal could be seen as admission of guilt in the civil trial.
John
bob.p...@gmail.com
Sep 17, 2014, 10:30:03 PM9/17/14
to
On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:00:02 PM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:
>
> As I said, I think it's 50-50 the grand jury will send the case
> to trial. I don't think the trial jury will find enough to
> convict, if it does go to trial. You do raise a good question
> about a plea, tho - on the one hand, agreeing to a plea deal
> gets the case over with for Stewart. On the other hand, a plea
> deal could be seen as admission of guilt in the civil trial.
>
Maybe I'm just a cynical old man, but I don't really think the outcome of any
>
> As I said, I think it's 50-50 the grand jury will send the case
> to trial. I don't think the trial jury will find enough to
> convict, if it does go to trial. You do raise a good question
> about a plea, tho - on the one hand, agreeing to a plea deal
> gets the case over with for Stewart. On the other hand, a plea
> deal could be seen as admission of guilt in the civil trial.
>
criminal proceeding (if there is any) will have much impact on the civil trial.
I swear that civil juries have to come from Mars some times. Lawyers see deep
pockets and go after the money aggressively. The jury sees a powerless little
guy who claims to have been done wrong by a powerful big guy and they find for
the little guy with little regard for either facts or common sense. (Remember
the old lady who got millions from McDonalds after she spilled hot coffee on
herself).
I think the lawyers are really licking their lips on this one. Tony's going
to get dinged for millions regardless of how the criminal case turns out.
John McCoy
Sep 18, 2014, 9:50:02 AM9/18/14
to
bob.p...@gmail.com wrote in
news:49e0c440-2903-476f...@googlegroups.com:
> On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:00:02 PM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:
>
>>
>> As I said, I think it's 50-50 the grand jury will send the case
>> to trial. I don't think the trial jury will find enough to
>> convict, if it does go to trial. You do raise a good question
>> about a plea, tho - on the one hand, agreeing to a plea deal
>> gets the case over with for Stewart. On the other hand, a plea
>> deal could be seen as admission of guilt in the civil trial.
>>
>
> Maybe I'm just a cynical old man, but I don't really think the outcome
> of any criminal proceeding (if there is any) will have much impact on
> the civil trial.
>
> I swear that civil juries have to come from Mars some times. Lawyers
> see deep pockets and go after the money aggressively. The jury sees a
> powerless little guy who claims to have been done wrong by a powerful
> big guy and they find for the little guy with little regard for either
> facts or common sense.
Yeah, I agree with you on civil juries, they're totally
unpredictable. Part of that is the relative innumeracy of
the typical citizen (who tend to vastly overestimate the
earning power of both the victim/plaintiff and the defendant),
partly it's a vaguely Robin Hood idea of righting wrongs.
But I do think a "guilty" on the criminal trial would carry
over to a "guilty" on the civil trial.
> (Remember the old lady who got millions from
> McDonalds after she spilled hot coffee on herself).
Perhaps not the best example - as I recall, McDonalds was using
a pressure apparatus to make their coffee (so it could be hotter
than normal boiling temperature), and the judge in the trial set
the verdict at something like $150k (he's not bound by the jury
recommendation).
> I think the lawyers are really licking their lips on this one. Tony's
> going to get dinged for millions regardless of how the criminal case
> turns out.
Yeah, the lawyers will win regardless.
John
news:49e0c440-2903-476f...@googlegroups.com:
> On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:00:02 PM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:
>
>>
>> As I said, I think it's 50-50 the grand jury will send the case
>> to trial. I don't think the trial jury will find enough to
>> convict, if it does go to trial. You do raise a good question
>> about a plea, tho - on the one hand, agreeing to a plea deal
>> gets the case over with for Stewart. On the other hand, a plea
>> deal could be seen as admission of guilt in the civil trial.
>>
>
> Maybe I'm just a cynical old man, but I don't really think the outcome
> of any criminal proceeding (if there is any) will have much impact on
> the civil trial.
>
> I swear that civil juries have to come from Mars some times. Lawyers
> see deep pockets and go after the money aggressively. The jury sees a
> powerless little guy who claims to have been done wrong by a powerful
> big guy and they find for the little guy with little regard for either
> facts or common sense.
unpredictable. Part of that is the relative innumeracy of
the typical citizen (who tend to vastly overestimate the
earning power of both the victim/plaintiff and the defendant),
partly it's a vaguely Robin Hood idea of righting wrongs.
But I do think a "guilty" on the criminal trial would carry
over to a "guilty" on the civil trial.
> (Remember the old lady who got millions from
> McDonalds after she spilled hot coffee on herself).
a pressure apparatus to make their coffee (so it could be hotter
than normal boiling temperature), and the judge in the trial set
the verdict at something like $150k (he's not bound by the jury
recommendation).
> I think the lawyers are really licking their lips on this one. Tony's
> going to get dinged for millions regardless of how the criminal case
> turns out.
John
Pete Zahria
Sep 19, 2014, 12:10:02 AM9/19/14
to
In article John McCoy <igo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Perhaps not the best example - as I recall, McDonalds was using
>a pressure apparatus to make their coffee (so it could be hotter
>than normal boiling temperature), and the judge in the trial set
>the verdict at something like $150k (he's not bound by the jury
>recommendation).
>John
>Perhaps not the best example - as I recall, McDonalds was using
>a pressure apparatus to make their coffee (so it could be hotter
>than normal boiling temperature), and the judge in the trial set
>the verdict at something like $150k (he's not bound by the jury
>recommendation).
>From 'Lectric Law Library.
...The jury awarded Liebeck $200,000 in compensatory damages. This amount
was reduced to $160,000 because the jury found Liebeck 20 percent at fault in
the spill. The jury also awarded Liebeck $2.7 million in punitive damages,
which equals about two days of McDonalds' coffee sales.
The trial court subsequently reduced the punitive award to $480,000 -- or
three times compensatory damages -- even though the judge called McDonalds'
conduct reckless, callous and willful.
No one will ever know the final ending to this case.
--
Dan
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool,
than to speak out and remove all doubt."
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