NHRA: Cheating rampant in Pro Stock ??
Marty Bose
Ray) wrote:
->In the Sunday edition of the Indianapolis Star, Bob Glidden
->made allegations that some NHRA PS teams have cheated, by using
->Nitrous Oxide, or running light cars, and putting in weight at the end of the
->track.
->
->Bob specifically said that his sons were using nitrous oxide to gain
->a performance advantage. He also said that the whole Wayne County
->thing is a cover-up, stating that if it were any other team, they
->would be back in about three weeks. [*My note*] I tend to agree with him,
->this crap about breaking rods on the dyno is getting a little
->rediculous, engine builders change back and forth between different
->bore and stroke sizes all the time, and do not have the problems these
->guys supposedly are having. [* end my note*].
->
->NHRA`s Graham Light dismissed Glidden's claims.
->
->I thought it was interesting that at the US Nationals, several cars
->were torn down and completely inspected, including sonic testing
->of weight bars, motor plates, battery boxes etc. I am starting to
->believe, that there is some cheating going on, and NHRA is just not
->telling the whole truth.
->
->Your thoughts ??
Mr. Glidden may indeed be an expert on such assertions. It is rather
widely believed that he himself used nitrous at the height of his career,
and that his sudden fall from success came when NHRA figured it out and
told him to stop or be exposed. Maybe his sons dragged out some of his
old hardware.
As far as Wayne County goes, I don't buy it. Being the only successful
Mopar Team already puts them under a microscope, and Chrysler can't afford
to have them caught cheating. The NHRA tech guys are not fools, and seem
to be doing a real serious search for funny stuff; I think they're legit.
That doesn't, however, prevent them from victimizing themselves with the
unobtanium syndrome. Even a cursory inspection of the released photos of
the vadalism reveals blocks and parts that in no way resemble original
Mopar parts, and their later statements about their new Merlin motors is
just more of the same. It would seem that they are trying to debut a
whole new setup that wasn't quite ready for Prime Time, and are paying the
price.
Marty
--
A relevant signature is an oxymoron.
John Ray
Bob specifically said that his sons were using nitrous oxide to gain
a performance advantage. He also said that the whole Wayne County
thing is a cover-up, stating that if it were any other team, they
would be back in about three weeks. [*My note*] I tend to agree with him,
this crap about breaking rods on the dyno is getting a little
rediculous, engine builders change back and forth between different
bore and stroke sizes all the time, and do not have the problems these
guys supposedly are having. [* end my note*].
NHRA`s Graham Light dismissed Glidden's claims.
I thought it was interesting that at the US Nationals, several cars
were torn down and completely inspected, including sonic testing
of weight bars, motor plates, battery boxes etc. I am starting to
believe, that there is some cheating going on, and NHRA is just not
telling the whole truth.
Your thoughts ??
--
John Ray | The opinions expressed here are | (513) 865-1077
LEXIS-NEXIS | not shared by LEXIS-NEXIS. | Telecomm. Engineering
P.O. Box 933 | In fact the opinions expressed | jo...@meaddata.com
Dayton,Ohio 45401 | here are not shared by anyone who | ...!uunet!meaddata!johnr
| is of sound mind. |
Philip Gravel
John Ray <jo...@meaddata.com> wrote:
>In the Sunday edition of the Indianapolis Star, Bob Glidden
>made allegations that some NHRA PS teams have cheated, by using
>Nitrous Oxide, or running light cars, and putting in weight at the end of the
>track.
I read the story too, and Glidden made some rather serious allegations.
As you pointed, he didn't spare his family.
>I thought it was interesting that at the US Nationals, several cars
>were torn down and completely inspected, including sonic testing
>of weight bars, motor plates, battery boxes etc. I am starting to
>believe, that there is some cheating going on, and NHRA is just not
>telling the whole truth.
Warren Johnson (low qualifier and Pro Stock winner) and Jim Yates had
their cars torn down. The following is a quotation from the Daily
Dragster published at the U.S. Nationals:
"The extensive teardown of Johnson's and Yates' cars following Friday's
session was the biggest topic of discussion; both cars passed. Instead
of being inspected in their trailers as is routine, the Johnson and Yates
machines were placed in the teardown barn. 'We wanted to create a
neutral territory,' said NHRA Director of Technical Operations John
Erickson.
"Among the items checked were batteries, puke tanks, fire bottles,
carburetors, weight bars, switches, shifters, and computers. The cars
were placed on four jack stands for thorough examination underneath,
and the manifolds were checked with a scope. All transducers were dis-
assembled for inspection, and the motor plates were sonic tested.
"'It's the most thorough inspection I've ever been through,' said Warren
Johnson's crew chief, Greg Anderson. 'With all of the allegations of
nitrous-oxide use that have been floating around this year, I'm glad
that something like this is being done.'
"Said Yates' crew chief, Richard Maskin, 'There's enough technology
available today that could ruin the sport if it was allowed to. Pro
Stock has to be kept legitimate, and I'm honored to be on the ground
floor of inspection procedures like this.'
"Other Pro Stock campaigners expressed similar views. 'No one can
say anything now about the two cars that were tested,' said [Steve]
Schmidt. 'And I hope that they pick my car next.' Said Bob Glidden,
'I'm glad to hear this is being done.'
Said Erickson, 'This is just a part of our ongoing inspection process.
I expect it will continue to expand in our teardown procedures, not
only in Pro Stock but in other categories.'"
--
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel Lisle, Illinois pgr...@mcs.com
Dave L. Aumiller
>Bob specifically said that his sons were using nitrous oxide to gain
>a performance advantage. He also said that the whole Wayne County
>thing is a cover-up, stating that if it were any other team, they
>would be back in about three weeks. [*My note*] I tend to agree with him,
>this crap about breaking rods on the dyno is getting a little
>rediculous, engine builders change back and forth between different
>bore and stroke sizes all the time, and do not have the problems these
>guys supposedly are having. [* end my note*].
>
I want to mention several things about the Wayne County incident.
1) After the parts were destroyed, there were 0 spares. If they were running
chevy or ford blocks they would have been able to borrow/buy blocks off of
another team.
2) The tuning of PS heads takes many, many hours. In a naturally aspirated
engine the ability of the heads to flow correctly is of the utmost importance.
We're talking hundreds of hours per engine.
3) The team was already planning on going to a different setup for the 96
season. The thought it would be a waste of money to build several of the 95
designs for only several reaces.
4) The 96 design was to be ready in 96, not in June of 95. There were/are
still bugs that need worked out.
5) Since when has NHRA ever cared about upsetting Chrysler?! Look at them
disallowing the Hemi in I believe it was 64 or 65. The factoring was designed
to place the cars on equal footing after Mopar dominated drag racing. NHRA
suspended Alderman for two years on drug charges which he vehemently denies.
If NHRA wanted to pacify Mopar, they would not have suspended their driver who
had just won the PS point standings!
All of this talk about cheating burns me up. People can't stand the fact the
Wanye County had the best PS shop around. There is no way a Dodge team can
compete, so if they're winning, they must be cheating. It sounds like sour
grapes to me.
Dave
John J. Udvari
At a recent race I ran into some old friends who are now
involved in pro stock racing. They explained to me what Bob Glidden
found out about his sons using nitrous in pro stock. Note this all
happened well before the recent US Nationals. Bob noticed that the
motor plate was thicker than he was using. Also a small bracket came
from the front of the motor to the top of the carb. A closer look
by Bob found a small nitrous bottle about the size of an air shifter
bottle that is common in the Super classes located inside the body
pannel. The lines were plumbed through the frame up to the motor plate.
Here a few o-rings sealed the plate to the frame and allowed the
nitrous to flow into the motor plate. The motor plate was gun drilled
to near the front of the motor and a bracket lead from there to in
front ofthe carbs. The bracket was made to look like additional
support for the scoop. Gildden then found a small set-screw that had
been drilled to allow the nitrous to flow. The nitrous was not used
for the entire run. A quick shot in front of the carbs at the 1000'
foot mark is all it takes. Recently one pro stock team tried a
quick shot of nitrous in front of the carbs on the dyno and noticed
a 50 to 75 horsepower increase. In pro stock that equates to a win
at the top end.
When Bob found out what was going on he pulled his motors back
and the rest is history. I also find it interesting that at Indy
some of the things I was told a few weeks before were part of the
tear down and inspection. You draw your own conclusion.
I also see that two dragsters were found with front ends that
were over the 30" limit. I have a good friend who just went to work
for John Lingenfelter so I will have to give him a call and get the
REAL story. Seems to me that this is a problem that should have been
found in tech inspection and not after the frist round. Also a dragster is
allowed to have a 2" wheelbase differental from side to side.
I know NHRA has a problem with geometry on the cams of Olds
stocker motors so I wonder how they measure the 30" rule here.
John Udvari
fk...@cleveland.freenet.edu
Ron Selberg
I am starting to
> believe, that there is some cheating going on, and NHRA is just not
> telling the whole truth.
>
How interesting. A very similar (or maybe the same?) article appeared
in the Oregonian here in Portland when the Pro Stockers stopped off to
race at Woodburn dragstrip. And all of the same allegations were made
by Glidden.
So if this is true, then Bob's kids would be the verification.
The more I think about all of this, the more I have to believe in the
NHRA as a "class" organization. And that the Dodge thing isn't a
coverup. Even though as a WJ fan, I want to believe it is! Make sense?
As far as adding weight after a run, there is no way they could be doing
that. The officials are right there in the shutdown area. So are the
scales usually.
Nitrous on the other hand could easily be hidden and introduced into the
engine. Even a bit in the air going to the carbs can make a difference.
And it doesn't take much to turn a non qualifier into a qualifier. So
go figure.
I'm thinking that it's too bad that Glidden isn't online to tell us that
he really said what the papers wrote.
Perhaps Dave Mac would care to comment?
Ron Selberg
S/PRO 68 Chevelle
Philip Gravel
Ron Selberg <ronald....@tek.com> wrote:
>How interesting. A very similar (or maybe the same?) article appeared
>in the Oregonian here in Portland when the Pro Stockers stopped off to
>race at Woodburn dragstrip. And all of the same allegations were made
>by Glidden.
Apparently Glidden isn't or hasn't been getting the satisfaction from
the NHRA he wants. So he's been going to the popular press in each
location he stops at.
As I recall, an NHRA official was quoted at the end of the Indianapolis
Star article as saying that he was tired of Glidden's allegations and
that if he (Glidden) didn't like the way the NHRA was doing its job, he
could go elsewhere.
Philip Gravel
Les Welch <EUU...@prodigy.com> wrote:
>>How interesting. A very similar (or maybe the same?) article appeared
>>in the Oregonian here in Portland when the Pro Stockers stopped off to
>>race at Woodburn dragstrip. And all of the same allegations were made
>>by Glidden.
>
>Different articles by different writers. And it's the papers who seek
>out Glidden to get the "scoop".
>
>>So if this is true, then Bob's kids would be the verification.
>
>I talked to Rusty at Indy and he verified what the Indy paper had
>reported. Last time I checked, the articles were still available at the
>Indianapolis Star's SpeedNet web site. I didn't read them while I was in
>Indy.
The URL for the story is:
http://www.starnews.com/speednet/SN_stories/0902SN_glidden.html
Les Welch
>
>jo...@meaddata.com (John Ray) wrote:
> I am starting to
>> believe, that there is some cheating going on, and NHRA is just not
>> telling the whole truth.
>>
>> Your thoughts ??
>
>
>in the Oregonian here in Portland when the Pro Stockers stopped off to
>race at Woodburn dragstrip. And all of the same allegations were made
>by Glidden.
Different articles by different writers. And it's the papers who seek
out Glidden to get the "scoop".
>So if this is true, then Bob's kids would be the verification.
I talked to Rusty at Indy and he verified what the Indy paper had
reported. Last time I checked, the articles were still available at the
Indianapolis Star's SpeedNet web site. I didn't read them while I was in
Indy.
>
>The more I think about all of this, the more I have to believe in the
>NHRA as a "class" organization. And that the Dodge thing isn't a
>coverup. Even though as a WJ fan, I want to believe it is! Make sense?
>
Look at it this way....if WJ had even thought that the Mopars were using
nitrous a couple of years ago, do you think he would have kept quiet?
>As far as adding weight after a run, there is no way they could be
doing
>that. The officials are right there in the shutdown area. So are the
>scales usually.
And photographers with cameras, not to mention TV cameras with L O N
G lenses!
>Nitrous on the other hand could easily be hidden and introduced into
the
>engine. Even a bit in the air going to the carbs can make a difference.
>And it doesn't take much to turn a non qualifier into a qualifier. So
>go figure.
>
>I'm thinking that it's too bad that Glidden isn't online to tell us
that
>he really said what the papers wrote.
>
>Perhaps Dave Mac would care to comment?
MaC made a few comments on the Prodigy Auto Racing BB earlier this week,
if you have access.
>
>Ron Selberg
>S/PRO 68 Chevelle
>
Rusty also told me of a device that can be mandated to be installed on
the headers of a car that will keep kind of a record of the gases that
have passed through the headers. As I understand it, it is something
that absorbs rather than a data collection device. He said it has been
used at times. Maybe it's like the drug tests...random.
See ya
Les
Dave L. Aumiller
>
>I have heard new rumors the Graham Light will be stepping down from his
>position with the NHRA per their request. Involving a cover up that he
>fined them by not letting them race untill they fell out of the top ten
>in points. It seems a little strange to me that they always seem to break
>parts on the dyno tuesday or wedensday before a national meet. It seems
>to happen week after week. Then saying they are going to give up the '94
>season and debut new equipment to go along with the new large cam radius
>and head change rules. Yeah right. They seem to have a large amout of
>engine backfires that noone else seems to have and isn't it a amazing
>how much those backfires resemble the backfires of the IHRA pro mods
>that run NOS. Explosions like that don't happen without some knid of
>accelerator. Maybe NOS????????? You decide.
>
>Another rumor floating around that they ran a NOS bottle in the back of
>the car inside a weight bar. The lines than ran inside the frame to the
>front of the car where they exited the frame and ran into the body.
>Then up to the hood where the nozzles were placed and the NOS was draw
>into the motor thgough the carb. Seems pretty logical. Once the front end
>is removed from the car there would be no signs of any illegal equipment during
>a routine motor inspection. I don't know just what I heard. I saw an
>interesting banner above the fuel trailer at our local dragstrip.
>It had pictures of the Dodge boys cars and pictures and in big blue
>lettering said. " We have NOS. Sponsor of the Wayne County Dodges".
>I thought it was appropriate.
>
>
>Ducati
OK. I call, what is your source. Someone in the Wayne County engine program?
Scott Geoffrion? Darryl Alderman? The man on the grassy knoll? What kind on
BS is this! NHRA will only fine Wayne County, after they drop out of the top
10. Why does the points race dictate when NHRA issues a fine? Have you seen
the pictures of the engines? I have the damage was real. If all you have is
an unfounded rumor, don't spread it.
Dave
Ron Selberg
> 5) Since when has NHRA ever cared about upsetting Chrysler?! Look at them
> disallowing the Hemi in I believe it was 64 or 65. The factoring was designed
> to place the cars on equal footing after Mopar dominated drag racing. NHRA
> suspended Alderman for two years on drug charges which he vehemently denies.
> If NHRA wanted to pacify Mopar, they would not have suspended their driver who
> had just won the PS point standings!
>
Seems to me that MOPAR sponsors several national events. Thier team getting
caught cheating would be some real egg on Chryslers face. I'm not saying that
they were cheating.
As far as Aldermans drug charges.....he went through a drug/alcohol treatment
program. As well as did a lot of public work against drug use. He denied selling
but admitted to using. NHRA was fair in their punishment and I commend Alderman
for his recovery.
> All of this talk about cheating burns me up. People can't stand the fact the
> Wanye County had the best PS shop around. There is no way a Dodge team can
> compete, so if they're winning, they must be cheating. It sounds like sour
> grapes to me.
>
We will probably never know what the "real" story is. And it doesn't matter that we
do. Next year will be a whole new season, and hopefully one without all of the
controversy, and the next PS champ will have earned it. I imagine Warren isn't going
to feel real great about winning this year without the Dodges in the hunt. I think
they would have finished 1 & 2 with Alderman on top.
Ron
Hans E. Warner
: In article <42npgb$q...@meaddata.meaddata.com>, jo...@meaddata.com (John
: Ray) wrote:
: ->In the Sunday edition of the Indianapolis Star, Bob Glidden
: ->made allegations that some NHRA PS teams have cheated, by using
: ->Nitrous Oxide, or running light cars, and putting in weight at the end of the
: ->track.
: ->
: ->Bob specifically said that his sons were using nitrous oxide to gain
: ->a performance advantage. He also said that the whole Wayne County
: ->thing is a cover-up, stating that if it were any other team, they
: ->would be back in about three weeks. [*My note*] I tend to agree with him,
: ->this crap about breaking rods on the dyno is getting a little
: ->rediculous, engine builders change back and forth between different
: ->bore and stroke sizes all the time, and do not have the problems these
: ->guys supposedly are having. [* end my note*].
: ->
: ->NHRA`s Graham Light dismissed Glidden's claims.
: ->
Joseph J Wiles
>position with the NHRA per their request. Involving a cover up that he
>fined them by not letting them race untill they fell out of the top ten
>in points. It seems a little strange to me that they always seem to break
>parts on the dyno tuesday or wedensday before a national meet. It seems
>to happen week after week.
I look at it this way. If they were caught cheating, then they got what they
deserve... suspension. It doesn't matter if anyone knows about it or not. If
they did get vandalized then I hope the trash that did it gets caught. If its
an insurance scam, then I hope "Wayne County" gets caught. It doesn't matter
who knows what happened, it will all come out in the wash because we all know
that human beings can't keep secrets.
WILDMAN
Philip Gravel
Joseph J Wiles <jjwiles> wrote:
> I look at it this way. If they were caught cheating, then they got what
>they deserve... suspension. It doesn't matter if anyone knows about it or
>not.
I believe it does matter. It has to do with the credibility of the
organization (NHRA) and the relationship that will exist between the
Wayne County team and its competitors and fans.
> It doesn't matter
>who knows what happened, it will all come out in the wash because we all know
>that human beings can't keep secrets.
Hopefully the truth will come out if it's not out already.