Schumacher Car Setup
Paul Hatchman
This is an extract from an article in "Motor Racing Australia". It is
interesting given the discussions at the end of last year on how
Schumacher had cars set up specially to suit his driving style.
These are all quotes from Schumacher.
"People have been saying that I like a car which is nervous and 'pointy' at
the front when turning into a corner. This is completely wrong. The fact is
that I can deal with a car like that if I have to. I try to use the best out
of the package I get. But I don't like a car like that. The 1994 Bennetton
was superb; it was very good. There were certain difficulties but they were
acceptable. But I like a neutral car as much as anyone else. That is the
target I look for, a car which doesn't understeer and doesn't oversteer. I
want to drive the fine line a be very precise. That has not been possible
this year, but I do the best with what I have got."
And earlier in the article
"The Benetton was very difficult to drive over the limit at the point where
you start sliding. You really had to stay a fraction below this limit. You
were able under certain circumstances, to make the times and be very
competitive but, if you went over that limit, you would either be very slow
or in the wall. You had to be very lucky to catch it again. That's why that
car was so special and difficult. The drivers (Berger and Alesi) who took
over the at Benetton have discovered that!"
- Paul
Peter Aisthorpe-Buckley
Believe this and you'll believe anything. Ask Johnny Herbert and then
Berger for their opinion on the car setup!
Incidentally are there no Johnny Herbert fans on this NG?
This guy is Schumacher's most successful team mate to date finishing 4th in
the WC and winning, along with MS, Benetton's World Constructors
Championship in 1995. You see while MS & DM were dueling Johnny was
quietly getting on with the job he was paid to do. I wish him all the best
in 1997-98 along with best wishes to Sauber et all.
--
Peter Aisthorpe-Buckley
"All that is worthy of attainment
is born out of struggle." Sam Torrance
Paul Hatchman <pa...@sfe.com.au> wrote in article
<5begjr$i...@rex.sfe.com.au>...
Alan Patil
Peter if you read what Paul wrote you'll see that what MS says is
that he didn't like the handling of 95 Benneton either. Asking
Berger or Herbert won't prove anything other than that they didn't
like the handling either. The difference is MS could cope with it
while Herbert and Berger couldn't.
Al
Peter Aisthorpe-Buckley wrote :
>Believe this and you'll believe anything. Ask Johnny Herbert and then
>Berger for their opinion on the car setup!
>>Paul Hatchman <pa...@sfe.com.au> wrote in article
Hayashi Masayoshi
Paul Hatchman (pa...@sfe.com.au) wrote:
:
: These are all quotes from Schumacher.
:
: "People have been saying that I like a car which is nervous and 'pointy' at
: the front when turning into a corner. This is completely wrong. The fact is
: that I can deal with a car like that if I have to. I try to use the best out
: of the package I get. But I don't like a car like that. The 1994 Bennetton
: was superb; it was very good. There were certain difficulties but they were
:
: "The Benetton was very difficult to drive over the limit at the point where
: you start sliding. [snip]
OK, my question. Why did the Benetton's car stayed that way even though
Schumacher was the first driver who almost monoplized the testing work for
the development and for whom the team evolved around for four years.
Why couldn't Schumacher develop the car into his liking?
IMHO, Berger seems to have tamed the Benetton by Suzuka this year
(i.e., within a year).
MH
Duncan Stainer
Peter Aisthorpe-Buckley wrote:
>
> Believe this and you'll believe anything. Ask Johnny Herbert and then
> Berger for their opinion on the car setup!
>
>
> This guy is Schumacher's most successful team mate to date finishing 4th in
> the WC and winning, along with MS, Benetton's World Constructors
> Championship in 1995. You see while MS & DM were dueling Johnny was
> quietly getting on with the job he was paid to do. I wish him all the best
> in 1997-98 along with best wishes to Sauber et all.
>
> --
> Peter Aisthorpe-Buckley
>
> "All that is worthy of attainment
> is born out of struggle." Sam Torrance
>
> Pe...@aisbuck.softnet.co.uk
>
At least last year Berger & Alesi were able to spent time with the
Bennetton engineers developing the car to what they wanted. Johnny
had to put up with whatever Schumi wanted.....
I think the performance of the Bennetton drivers last year showed what a
good job JH did.........
2 Wins to Berger & Alesi's 0.
> Paul Hatchman <pa...@sfe.com.au> wrote in article
> <5begjr$i...@rex.sfe.com.au>...
> > This is an extract from an article in "Motor Racing Australia". It is
> > interesting given the discussions at the end of last year on how
> > Schumacher had cars set up specially to suit his driving style.
> >
> > These are all quotes from Schumacher.
> >
> > "People have been saying that I like a car which is nervous and 'pointy'
> at
> > the front when turning into a corner. This is completely wrong. The fact
> is
> > that I can deal with a car like that if I have to. I try to use the best
> out
> > of the package I get. But I don't like a car like that. The 1994
> Bennetton
> > was superb; it was very good. There were certain difficulties but they
> were
> > acceptable. But I like a neutral car as much as anyone else. That is the
> > target I look for, a car which doesn't understeer and doesn't oversteer.
> I
> > want to drive the fine line a be very precise. That has not been possible
> > this year, but I do the best with what I have got."
> >
> > And earlier in the article
> >
> > "The Benetton was very difficult to drive over the limit at the point
> where
Ian Brigstocke
4m...@qlink.queensu.ca (Hayashi Masayoshi) wrote:
>
>If Schum likes a 'neutral' car and hates a "pointy" car, then why could
>not Herbert benefit from the same setup from Schumi? Again, to repeat my
>original question, why could not Schumi developed the Benetton into his
>liking during four years of his hegemony in the team?
>
>Or what Shumi said is just a BS? ;-).
Maybe to his style of driving the car is neutral (at least moreso than
for other driver's styles)? I don't see what he gains from saying he
likes a neutral car if he doesn't. Everyone knows that the Benneton
he left behind was a very pointy car.
We should have a pretty good idea what he really likes from seeing the
way in which the Ferrari is developed.
Ian
Hayashi Masayoshi
Alan Patil (Alan_...@msn.com) wrote:
: Peter if you read what Paul wrote you'll see that what MS says is
: that he didn't like the handling of 95 Benneton either. Asking
: Berger or Herbert won't prove anything other than that they didn't
: like the handling either. The difference is MS could cope with it
: while Herbert and Berger couldn't.
Let me jump in again. Then, my question is:
mikko tanni
4m...@qlink.queensu.ca (Hayashi Masayoshi) wrote:
>
> Paul Hatchman (pa...@sfe.com.au) wrote:
> :
> : These are all quotes from Schumacher.
> :
> : "People have been saying that I like a car which is nervous and 'pointy' at
> : the front when turning into a corner. This is completely wrong. The fact is
> : that I can deal with a car like that if I have to. I try to use the best out
> : of the package I get. But I don't like a car like that. The 1994 Bennetton
> : was superb; it was very good. There were certain difficulties but they were
> :
> : "The Benetton was very difficult to drive over the limit at the point where
> : you start sliding. [snip]
>
> OK, my question. Why did the Benetton's car stayed that way even though
> Schumacher was the first driver who almost monoplized the testing work for
> the development and for whom the team evolved around for four years.
>
> Why couldn't Schumacher develop the car into his liking?
>
> IMHO, Berger seems to have tamed the Benetton by Suzuka this year
> (i.e., within a year).
>
> MH
b195 wasn't. B195 was Benettons 1st car which used v-10 engine.
building car around v-8 is always easier than building it around v-10
Paul Hatchman
4m...@qlink.queensu.ca (Hayashi Masayoshi) writes:
>Let me jump in again. Then, my question is:
>If Schum likes a 'neutral' car and hates a "pointy" car, then why could
>not Herbert benefit from the same setup from Schumi? Again, to repeat my
>original question, why could not Schumi developed the Benetton into his
>liking during four years of his hegemony in the team?
>Or what Shumi said is just a BS? ;-).
Presumably because it was faster in its unstable state than it was in its
stable state, as long as you knew exactly where the limit was. Your speed was
determined by how far below this limit you drove.
I wish you could see the whole article, because it goes onto talk about how
different the Ferrari was. Basically he said because of the way the Ferrari
handles, you can take it past the limit and still catch it, making it look like
he is driving the Ferrari harder than he was the Benetton.
I see no reason why he would have made anything up about the handling of either
car. He says that the Ferrari is a fairly neutral handling car and he still
goes fast in it.
- Paul
Herbert Eitel
Hayashi Masayoshi wrote:
> If Schum likes a 'neutral' car and hates a "pointy" car, then why could
> not Herbert benefit from the same setup from Schumi?
The 1994 Benetton was a great car with a stable road-holding and
a relatively neutral behavior (Schumacher). Michael was fast in it if
not dominating with this car. Senna had a more nervous car at the beginning
but could cope with and was the only true contender for
Michael and vice versa. The teammates were not a question at all!
The 1995 Benetton was a new car with a new engine (combination) and
pretty nervous as all know. Schumacher as all great racers (see Senna)
could cope with and after some problems could again dominate the
whole field. The only challenge were the Williams drivers in a very
stable, neutral and aerodynamically perfect car.
Considering all circumstances, Herbert
did a great job in the Benetton. He not only won 2 GPs, he also made
a lot of good races in this car (e.g. Spain!). That he not could match
with Schumacher is no disgrace. He was aside with Brundle the best so far.
Schumacher could take Herbert's setup and go immediately faster
without any problems (again Spain '95). I think you will find
bigger differences between all the drivers the more nervous a car
behaves. If the car is neutral the differences may not be so
big, but nevertheless they are.
> Again, to repeat my
> original question, why could not Schumi developed the Benetton into his
> liking during four years of his hegemony in the team?
He had a car of his liking in 1994, as I said, so his work, as far he
could influence the whole thing, had had results. But a car is not build
by the driver and the engineers and designers try their best
every year to improve things and gain advantages out of their
experience they made the years before.
Whereas Williams had to do just little steps to improve the handling but could
rely on their experience with the Renault engine over years, Benetton
had to fit the new car with a new! engine, that means other vibrations
new cross-section, in fact a new technology in the back which nevertheless
also influences the whole aerodynamic of the car, the diffuser and so on
and so on.
It's hard work and a lot of testing until chassis and engine have
an act of love in the end.:-)
The result was a much more nervous car at the beginning of the 1995 season
but, as I said, Schumacher could cope with (although he had his moments,
e.g. Imola or Spa). Berger had a better car in 1996!! (since he was shocked
by the 1995 Benetton behavior and had two big accidents in it in the
1995 testing for Benetton) but nevertheless
he could not get the best out of the car as probably a Schumacher
or a Senna would have done it.
So, Schumacher will also have to take what he can get out of the
new Ferrari and from that point on he can again try to develop this
new car into his liking as far as this is possible at all.
BTW, a _setup_ is re-considered completely new at every track
and for every race. Even a Damon Hill in that superior Williams
had to re-think his car setup at every new race track.
> Or what Shumi said is just a BS? ;-).
Apart from your smiley, I think this guy knows what he is
talking about and there are more (experts) than just fans like we are, who
listen to what he talks!
--
Herbert Eitel
____________
e...@ict.fhg.de
Herbert Eitel
Ian Brigstocke wrote:
> We should have a pretty good idea what he really likes from seeing the
> way in which the Ferrari is developed.
He said the car would behave a lot more neutral and that he would
be happy about it!! He furthermore hopes that the car is
fast, too!:-)
Any times from the testing sessions in Spain??
--
Herbert
Still a fan of Johnny!:-)
____________
e...@ict.fhg.de
Geoffrey Webber
In article <32DE53...@ict.fhg.de>, Herbert Eitel <e...@ict.fhg.de>
writes
>Hayashi Masayoshi wrote:
>
>> If Schum likes a 'neutral' car and hates a "pointy" car, then why could
>> not Herbert benefit from the same setup from Schumi?
>
>The 1994 Benetton was a great car with a stable road-holding and
>a relatively neutral behavior (Schumacher). Michael was fast in it if
>not dominating with this car. Senna had a more nervous car at the
beginning
>but could cope with and was the only true contender for
>Michael and vice versa. The teammates were not a question at all!
In that case why did MS have to smash Hill off the track in Adelaide?
--
Geoff Webber If I laugh at any mortal thing, it is that I
may not weep.
- Byron
John D. Owen
Herbert Eitel wrote:
>
> The 1994 Benetton was a great car with a stable road-holding and
> a relatively neutral behavior (Schumacher). Michael was fast in it if
> not dominating with this car. Senna had a more nervous car at the beginning
> but could cope with and was the only true contender for
> Michael and vice versa. The teammates were not a question at all!
I'd say Senna's experience with the Williams car was rather less than
'coping with it'. In his Williams races, he failed to score a point.
Fine, he was taken out by someone else at the first corner at Aida. But
in Brazil, he simply lost it while hustling the car in pursuit of
Schumacher, spinning out. And I often wonder whether a contributing
factor in the Imola crash wasn't Senna pushing the car a little too hard
too early after the restart while trying to stay ahead of Schumacher in
a superior car.
JDO
Peter Fisla
John D. Owen <J.D....@open.ac.uk> wrote in article
<32E76A...@open.ac.uk>...
In my opinion...Senna wasn't anymore Senna...in 94...I was watching for
example
full 93 season...and saw how Michael was getting better and better...and
closer and
closer to Senna...(Senna knew this and he was a bit nervouse in 93)
if in 93 Michael had a car like Senna I think the outcome would be
different I don't mean Senna would loose but it would be even...I was
waiting for 94
because I knew Senna would be on the top like he used to be ..that someone
could
come close to him even match him...and also had better personality like
Senna...
and I was kind of dissapointed that Senna died ...since I wanted to see
Michael win the 94 championship and Senna
beeing second...God only knows what else got involved in Imola 94...but the
pressure
was big on Senna that's for sure...guess also part of it was the death of
Ratzenberger....
Question is was Senna on downfall ?....hmmm I didn't tape 93 races...but
surely like
to see them again...to be absolutely sure...of course from my point of
view...
Peter
Herbert Eitel
Geoffrey Webber <Ge...@pertinent.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>but could cope with and was the only true contender for
>>Michael and vice versa. The teammates were not a question at all!
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>In that case why did MS have to smash Hill off the track in Adelaide?
>--
>Geoff
Geoff,
apart from the incident in question, I take your remark serious and
think you're trying to say: How is it that Hill came so close in the
end. In that case the answer is plain and simple: Michael
had 4 races less and Hill would not had scored so much points
if Schumacher had driven these 4 races. A difference
of about 25 to 30 points would be realistic in my point of view!
Herbert
Still a fan of Johnny!:-)
_________________
e...@ict.fhg.de
Herbert Eitel
"Peter Fisla" <ri...@myna.com> wrote:
>In my opinion...Senna wasn't anymore Senna...in 94...I was watching for
>example
>full 93 season...and saw how Michael was getting better and better...and
>closer and
>closer to Senna...(Senna knew this and he was a bit nervouse in 93)
>if in 93 Michael had a car like Senna I think the outcome would be
>different I don't mean Senna would loose but it would be even.
I don't think that Senna was on a downfall. Considering the
material he used he drove races like a real champion (Brazil,
Donnington, Suzuka or Adelaide), although
the McLaren at the end of the season was certainly a better
car than in the beginning. In an interview he considered
himself even as one of the drivers who belongs to
the younger generation in this sport and had probably
enough bite to score at least two more championships
in a competitive team. Perhaps the McLaren Team made
him look like on a downfall, but Senna took the consiquences!
On the other hand, as far as the pressure is concerned, I think
you're right. Senna was certainly under pressure from Schumacher.
Drivers like Senna almost smell it maybe one or two years
earlier than the rest of the world (especially the fans ;-) )
if there is true competition comming up with a certain
talented driver! And he drove the Williams of his
'friend' Prost, who could score his 4th championship
in it like sitting in an armchair (at least as long as
the track was dry ;-) ). So he had to prove to do
the same, but couldn't score any points after
two races, whereas Schumacher drove those races
like an old hand.
Nervous yes, but downfall? Certainly not!
Paul Smyth
Peter Fisla wrote:
>
> Question is was Senna on downfall ?....hmmm I didn't tape 93 races...but
> surely like
> to see them again...to be absolutely sure...of course from my point of
> view...
>
> Peter
Most observers at the time reckoned that 1993 was Senna's best ever
year, stealing 5 races in a fairly poor McLaren. Yes, Schumacher did
improve through the year, but in 1993 and at the start of 1994 he seemed
to me better than ever. Before he span out at Brazil he had lapped Damon
Hill, his own teammate, with two year's practice in the car.
--
Paul Smyth, Dept. of Medical Biophysics, Stopford Building,
University of Manchester, Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PT, UK.
Phone: +44 161 275 5157 Fax: +44 161 275 5145
mailto:p...@sv1.smb.man.ac.uk http://s10d.smb.man.ac.uk/~pps/