Where was Hakkinen going?
Bizarre Creations
Does anyone know where Hakkinen was heading when he jumped out of his
car after the three-car shunt at Monaco? Initially, it looked like he
was going to 'discuss the situation' with Irvine, but he went past the
Ferrari's cockpit and was level with the front wheel, pushing the
marshall out the way, as the TV coverage moved on.....
Any ideas?
Sarah
MFree91715
Murray (or JP?) said he was off to have a word with the marshalls as no
yellow flags where being shown. He sure didn't look to happy!
Mike
roy
biz...@enterprise.net (Bizarre Creations) wrote:
According to Hakkinen's interview on the Finnish MTV3 site, Mika was in a
hurry to get out of the way of oncoming traffic. Here is my attempt at a
translation:
"The crash with Eddie Irvine and Salo was a typical racing accident. I
didn't even have time to brake before I rear-ended Salo. I jumped out of
the car as quickly as possible because if another car would have
rear-ended me, that car could have flowm over me and could have taken my
head with it. I was not mad at Eddie because you can't do anything about
those kind of spins."
the original:
- Lopullinen kolari Eddie lrvinen ja Salon kanssa oli vain tyypillinen
kilpailuonnettomuus, jolle ei voi mitään. En kerinnyt edes jarruttamaan
kun jo osuin Salon perään. Hyppäsin autosta niin pian kuin suinkin,
sillä jos sieltä olisi tullut joku vielä minun perääni, se auto olisi voinut
lentää vaikka minun ylitseni ja viedä pääni mukanaan. En ollut vihainen
Eddielle, sillä ei sellaiselle spinnille mitään mahda.
Sean Garrick
In article <4nnjto$j...@news.enterprise.net>,
Bizarre Creations <biz...@enterprise.net> wrote:
>Does anyone know where Hakkinen was heading when he jumped out of his
>car after the three-car shunt at Monaco? Initially, it looked like he
>was going to 'discuss the situation' with Irvine, but he went past the
>Ferrari's cockpit and was level with the front wheel, pushing the
>marshall out the way, as the TV coverage moved on.....
>
>Any ideas?
At first I thought Hakk. was going to do a Senna and bop Irvine on the head.
But then I realized that Irvine wasn't really at fault and Hakk. would probably
think the same.
The most logical reason why he was is such a hurry is that the corner is pretty
much a blind one. That is exactly why he and Salo slammed into Irvine. I am
sure he doesn't want to be on the F1 injured list once again.
Ergos
In article <4non4p$7...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>, g...@bohr.physics.purdue.edu
(Gabriele F. Giuliani) wrote:
In article <4nnvcn$l...@azure.acsu.buffalo.edu>,
Sean Garrick <gar...@acsu.buffalo.edu> wrote:
>
>The most logical reason why he was is such a hurry is that the corner is pretty
>
Hakkinen explicitly stated that he, as you correctly guessed, was simply
trying to get out of the way of possible incoming traffic as soon as
possible. gfg
I am sorry but this is not the truth... if he had wanted to get out of the
way, there was a much quicker way out, simply over the barriers. He
clearly turned to Irvine and, had he nor been stopped, would have hit him.
FD
chris_b.
biz...@enterprise.net (Bizarre Creations) wrote:
>Does anyone know where Hakkinen was heading when he jumped out of his
>car after the three-car shunt at Monaco? Initially, it looked like he
>was going to 'discuss the situation' with Irvine, but he went past the
>Ferrari's cockpit and was level with the front wheel, pushing the
>marshall out the way, as the TV coverage moved on.....
I believe that because he came around the turn and had no time to
react/stop, he probably felt that someone could come by any second and
plow into him the same way---best to get the heck outta there!
Chris B.
Ingo Behrmann
Bizarre Creations wrote:
>
> Does anyone know where Hakkinen was heading when he jumped out of his
> car after the three-car shunt at Monaco? Initially, it looked like he
> was going to 'discuss the situation' with Irvine, but he went past the
> Ferrari's cockpit and was level with the front wheel, pushing the
> marshall out the way, as the TV coverage moved on.....
>
>
> Sarah
I think he tried to complain about missing yellow flags at the track!
--
Ingo Behrmann
e-mail:
10030...@compuserve.com
snail-mail:
Schlosshof 3
72138 Kirchentellinsfurt
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phone:
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fax:
(announced only) 07121-68820
R.I.P. scott brayton
Ingo Behrmann (10030...@compuserve.com) wrote:
: Bizarre Creations wrote:
: > Does anyone know where Hakkinen was heading when he jumped out of his
: > car after the three-car shunt at Monaco? Initially, it looked like he
: I think he tried to complain about missing yellow flags at the track!
there *was* a local yellow, right at the turn. unfortunately for salo and
hakkinen, the yellow flags couldn't point out that irvine had reversed his
car to a point where he would surprise them the way he did.
hakkinen jumped out of his car after irvine, ready to yell at him for
the incident. the marshall was about to hold him back, and hakkinen
pushed him off. that's when the camera was cut off.
kimberly
--
====================================================================
kimberly delafuente (loves jv's lopsided smile) kd...@csulb.edu
to the 1996 formula one and indycar champs--
============go jacques villeneuve #6 and greg moore #99!============
Chris Clarke
> According to Hakkinen's interview on the Finnish MTV3 site, Mika was in a
> hurry to get out of the way of oncoming traffic. Here is my attempt at a
> translation:
>
> "The crash with Eddie Irvine and Salo was a typical racing accident. I
> didn't even have time to brake before I rear-ended Salo. I jumped out of
> the car as quickly as possible because if another car would have
> rear-ended me, that car could have flowm over me and could have taken my
> head with it. I was not mad at Eddie because you can't do anything about
> those kind of spins."
Now that's diplomacy at its Finnish best. Irvine was trying to turn the
car to continue, in fact in slow motion you can see his car moving
*backwards* as Salo struck him. Look for the tire stripes on the track.
Hakkinen most certainly wanted a word with Irvine, perhaps more, no doubt
about it.
The thing that gets me is, why did Irvine try to turn his car on a blind
corner? Seems like a profound lack of judgement to me.
Chris
Gabriele F. Giuliani
David Rupilius
Chris B. wrote:
>biz...@enterprise.net (Bizarre Creations) wrote:
>>Does anyone know where Hakkinen was heading when he jumped out of his
>>car after the three-car shunt at Monaco? Initially, it looked like he
>>was going to 'discuss the situation' with Irvine, but he went past the
>>Ferrari's cockpit and was level with the front wheel, pushing the
>>marshall out the way, as the TV coverage moved on.....
>I believe that because he came around the turn and had no time to
>react/stop, he probably felt that someone could come by any second and
>plow into him the same way---best to get the heck outta there!
>
>Chris B.
Or maybee he was going to 'discuss the situation' with the
marshalls...
Somehow Salo and Hakkinen did not seem to be aware of the stopped car.
Maybee they didn't wave enough yellow flags?
-------------------------------
David Rupilius
University of Essen, Germany
sw0...@aixrs1.hrz.uni-essen.de
jfin...@direct.ca
In article <thwack-1905...@ras059.ais.ucla.edu>, thw...@netcom.com says...
>
>The thing that gets me is, why did Irvine try to turn his car on a blind
>corner? Seems like a profound lack of judgement to me.
>
>Chris
Oh right! Next time he spins on a blind corner he should just continue
*backwards* down the hill for about a half kilometer; then find a nice
lady-like place to turn around. Alternativly he could just risk decapitation
by staying put as the next few cars roar down on him around a the corner.
I think he did about the only sensible thing.
As has been stated elsewhere, Hakkenin and Salo were clearly shown the
yellow flag. I'm not saying they had a lot of time to react, and I only
saw one, but it was the guy straight in front of them as they were on
the little bit of straight just after the 180 degree left-hander. It
was very clear on replay of the tape.
regards,
Jim
R.I.P. scott brayton
roy (r...@primenet.com) wrote:
: According to Hakkinen's interview on the Finnish MTV3 site, Mika was in a
: hurry to get out of the way of oncoming traffic. Here is my attempt at a
: translation:
:
: "The crash with Eddie Irvine and Salo was a typical racing accident. I
: didn't even have time to brake before I rear-ended Salo. I jumped out of
: the car as quickly as possible because if another car would have
: rear-ended me, that car could have flowm over me and could have taken my
: head with it.
: I was not mad at Eddie because you can't do anything about
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(yeah RIGHT! videotape doesn't lie, Mika :)
: those kind of spins."
either mika underwent a complete personality change before the interview,
or he calmed down considerably and thought he could hide what *really*
happened--that initially he wanted to have a "chat" with irvine...or it
was a bad translation :)
Christian Ehrnrooth
In article <4nnjto$j...@news.enterprise.net>,
biz...@enterprise.net (Bizarre Creations) wrote:
>Does anyone know where Hakkinen was heading when he jumped out of his
>car after the three-car shunt at Monaco? Initially, it looked like he
>was going to 'discuss the situation' with Irvine, but he went past the
>Ferrari's cockpit and was level with the front wheel, pushing the
>marshall out the way, as the TV coverage moved on.....
>
>
>Sarah
>
Hakkinen himself said he just wanted to get out of the way before the next car
would join the heap.
X-ian
Finland
Hayashi Masayoshi
R.I.P. scott brayton (kd...@csulb.edu) wrote:
: roy (r...@primenet.com) quotes Hakkinen's interveiw:
: : "The crash with Eddie Irvine and Salo was a typical racing accident. I
: : didn't even have time to brake before I rear-ended Salo. I jumped out of
: : the car as quickly as possible because if another car would have
: : rear-ended me, that car could have flowm over me and could have taken my
: : head with it.
: : I was not mad at Eddie because you can't do anything about
: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: (yeah RIGHT! videotape doesn't lie, Mika :)
: : those kind of spins."
: either mika underwent a complete personality change before the interview,
: or he calmed down considerably and thought he could hide what *really*
: happened--that initially he wanted to have a "chat" with irvine...or it
: was a bad translation :)
: kimberly
I watched the videotape again and again, but, as another post has
already remarked, it does not look like Mika running toward Eddie but
somewhere else. It looked to me that his head has never turned to
Irvine's direction.
Donovan Olivier
On 20 May 1996, Ergos wrote...
>
> [snip]
>
> I am sorry but this is not the truth... if he had wanted to get out of
the
> way, there was a much quicker way out, simply over the barriers. He
> clearly turned to Irvine and, had he nor been stopped, would have hit
him.
If you looked closely enough, you would see that Hakkinen ran into the
marshall about level with Irvine's front wheel. Did you something I
didn't? After Hakkinen ploughed into the marshall, he was still going,
he did not turn in Irvine's direction at all.
Donovan
Donovan Olivier
On 20 May 1996, Ergos wrote...
>
> [snip]
>
> I am sorry but this is not the truth... if he had wanted to get out of
the
> way, there was a much quicker way out, simply over the barriers. He
> clearly turned to Irvine and, had he nor been stopped, would have hit
>him.
If you looked closely enough, you would see that Hakkinen ran into the
marshall about level with Irvine's front wheel. He would have stopped
sooner if he had been after Irvine, don't you think? Did you something
Sylvan Smyth
g...@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Gabriele F. Giuliani) wrote:
>Hakkinen explicitly stated that he, as you correctly guessed, was simply
>trying to get out of the way of possible incoming traffic as soon as
>possible. gfg
Er...@leland.stanford.edu (Ergos) wrote:
>I am sorry but this is not the truth... if he had wanted to get out of the
>way, there was a much quicker way out, simply over the barriers. He
>clearly turned to Irvine and, had he nor been stopped, would have hit him.
He glanced at Irvine - as he ran right past him. The marshal didn't get
into his way until Hakkinen reached Irvine's front tire. Hakkinen
clearly pushes him with the intent of continuing running. Anyone who
thinks he was going after Irvine obviously didn't see the incident.
---
Sylvan Smyth
syl...@islandnet.com
Victoria, B.C. Canada
Yousuf Khan
thw...@netcom.com (Chris Clarke) wrote:
>> "The crash with Eddie Irvine and Salo was a typical racing accident. I
>> didn't even have time to brake before I rear-ended Salo. I jumped out of
>> the car as quickly as possible because if another car would have
>> rear-ended me, that car could have flowm over me and could have taken my
>> head with it. I was not mad at Eddie because you can't do anything about
>> those kind of spins."
>Now that's diplomacy at its Finnish best. Irvine was trying to turn the
>car to continue, in fact in slow motion you can see his car moving
>*backwards* as Salo struck him. Look for the tire stripes on the track.
>Hakkinen most certainly wanted a word with Irvine, perhaps more, no doubt
>about it.
Yeah, it looked like he wanted to wring Eddie's neck out a few times
too. But it's likely he saw the tape of the incident later, and
figured out it wasn't really Eddie's fault, so he changed his story.
Yousuf Khan
--
Yousuf J. Khan & Issa S. Khan | Just because you're paranoid doesn't
yk...@achilles.net | mean that they are not out to get you.
you...@idc.com |
Ottawa, Ont, Canada |
Nation's capital |
Stephen Kennedy
roy wrote:
> According to Hakkinen's interview on the Finnish MTV3 site, Mika was in a
> hurry to get out of the way of oncoming traffic. Here is my attempt at a
> translation:
>
> didn't even have time to brake before I rear-ended Salo. I jumped out of
> the car as quickly as possible because if another car would have
> rear-ended me, that car could have flowm over me and could have taken my
> head with it. I was not mad at Eddie because you can't do anything about
> those kind of spins."
Ah. I stand corrected - misinformed by Mr Murray Walker once again :-(
-Steve
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Niko I J Halonen
Chris B. writes:
>biz...@enterprise.net (Bizarre Creations) wrote:
>>Does anyone know where Hakkinen was heading when he jumped out of his
>>car after the three-car shunt at Monaco? Initially, it looked like he
>>was going to 'discuss the situation' with Irvine, but he went past the
>>Ferrari's cockpit and was level with the front wheel, pushing the
>>marshall out the way, as the TV coverage moved on.....
>I believe that because he came around the turn and had no time to
>react/stop, he probably felt that someone could come by any second and
>plow into him the same way---best to get the heck outta there!
>
>Chris B.
That's what he said to Finnish papers.
Niko
--
Ferro /\/\/\ Dem proctus non pasficus,
nhal...@alpha.hut.fi \/\/\/ que si padre nauticum.
Berta Camus
Bizarre Creations wrote:
>
> Does anyone know where Hakkinen was heading when he jumped out of his
> car after the three-car shunt at Monaco? Initially, it looked like he
> was going to 'discuss the situation' with Irvine, but he went past the
> Ferrari's cockpit and was level with the front wheel, pushing the
> marshall out the way, as the TV coverage moved on.....
>
>
> Sarah
To me it looked like he was trying to escape a dangerous situation. I
don't remember seeing marshals waving any yellow flags at that moment
(i'll have to watch it again on tape later) .
IMHO. Mika was most probably surprised and did not want to be rear-ended
while still in his vehicle.
Francisco Marreiros
David
In article <4nppj1$4...@lmfpub.lmf.ericsson.se>, Christian Ehrnrooth
<christian...@lmf.ericsson.se> writes
>In article <4nnjto$j...@news.enterprise.net>,
> biz...@enterprise.net (Bizarre Creations) wrote:
>>Does anyone know where Hakkinen was heading when he jumped out of his
>>car after the three-car shunt at Monaco? Initially, it looked like he
>>was going to 'discuss the situation' with Irvine, but he went past the
>>Ferrari's cockpit and was level with the front wheel, pushing the
>>marshall out the way, as the TV coverage moved on.....
>>
>>Any ideas?
>>
>>Sarah
>>
>would join the heap.
>X-ian
>Finland
The thing I want to know is will he get fined $10 000 for not leaveing
his steering wheel in his car.
--
David
Ian Buckham
The replay showed the yellow flags waving.
Irvine made the mistake of spinning (cold tyres). He obviously
could not see over the armco to see if anyone was coming. His
spin turn completely blocked of the track just as the two cars
arived separted by inches.
R.I.P. scott brayton
Hayashi Masayoshi (4m...@qlink.queensu.ca) wrote:
: I watched the videotape again and again, but, as another post has
: somewhere else. It looked to me that his head has never turned to
: Irvine's direction.
i stand corrected. i looked at the videotape more closely, and it does
look more
like he was running PAST irvine's car. but man, what a hurry he was in,
pushing the marshal out of the way! :)
wjustice
>g...@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Gabriele F. Giuliani) wrote:
>>Hakkinen explicitly stated that he, as you correctly guessed, was simply
>>trying to get out of the way of possible incoming traffic as soon as
>>possible. gfg
>Er...@leland.stanford.edu (Ergos) wrote:
>>I am sorry but this is not the truth... if he had wanted to get out of the
>>way, there was a much quicker way out, simply over the barriers. He
>>clearly turned to Irvine and, had he nor been stopped, would have hit him.
To which Sylvan Smyth <syl...@islandnet.com> added:
>He glanced at Irvine - as he ran right past him. The marshal didn't get
>into his way until Hakkinen reached Irvine's front tire. Hakkinen
>clearly pushes him with the intent of continuing running. Anyone who
>thinks he was going after Irvine obviously didn't see the incident.
>---
>Sylvan Smyth
>syl...@islandnet.com
While I watched the race "live" on TSN (Canada), all I recall was Hakinnen
running towards the front of the 'pile-up', which is of course where Irvine
was located. I do NOT recall him wavering towards Irvine, just rushing
along past the pile-up. Whether he pushed//jostled a marshall, I didn't
notice and quite frankly don't think I wish to review the footage that was
recorded on my VCR.
Interviews which I've read in this NewsGroup make a creditable case for
Hakkinen's explanation that he just wanted to get out of there to avoid being
caught in a further pile-up. If a marshall slowed down his escape; he was
probably justified in pushing him out of the way. If all of Hakinnen's
actions showed a bit of franticism, is it any wonder?
Bear in mind that this man suffered injuries at the close of the last season
which were more serious than any F1 driver since A. Senna has suffered. He
spent months recuperating; some rumours still exist that he has some lingering
problems with his vision, etc. Certainly, he has tasted his own immortality
and god knows what psychological demons still exist for him.
IMHO, Hakinnen will not acieve any more pinnacles in his career as a driver.
While his talent will continue to serve him well, the innocence and sheer joy
of competition is probably much diminished.
This makes him no less a man; just a wiser one. I suspect that for now, he
will continue to shephard Coulthard along, lending his experience, but at some
point soon he will probably face the fact that he can no longer strive for
10/10 performances; 9/10 is enough. Long as this suits his employers and
himself, he will probably stay in F1, but as many great drivers who have
suffered serious accidents before him, IMHO, Hakinnen has been "touched"
by his accident and can no longer reconcile himself to give 100% to F1. I
don't think that Hakinnen can reconcile himself to such a role for many more
years.
Ergo, I truly think his main motivation after being caught on a blind corner
in Monaco was one of self-preservation. If a Marshall got in his way; he was
simply in the way to safety, nothing else.
To all Hakinnen fans, I am implying absolutely nothing demeaning in this post.
I merely feel that he has matured very rapidly in the last half year and is
searching for and trying to come to grips with a career change - out of the
cockpit, but not necessarily out of F1.
Niki Lauda did the same many years ago after his horrendous accident at the
Nurburgring. Does anyone question his motivations? On the contrary, he has
returned to the F1 scene as a 'consultant' and strong motivating force.
It is a sign of great driver maturity to know when to quit...not always
because of inability to drive well; but because it is taking too much out of
the driver.
Time will tell; I may be way out of line with my predictions.
Notwithstanding, I think that at the very least true F1 fans should cut
Hakinnen some slack for a good while to come.
--Willy Tamm ................... Scarborough ('burb' of Toronto), Canada
................... Moving soon to New Mexico, USA
--WMHG© ........................ World's Most Humble Genius
Jan Richards
Chris Clarke (thw...@netcom.com) wrote:
: Now that's diplomacy at its Finnish best. Irvine was trying to turn the
: car to continue, in fact in slow motion you can see his car moving
: *backwards* as Salo struck him. Look for the tire stripes on the track.
: Hakkinen most certainly wanted a word with Irvine, perhaps more, no doubt
: about it.
: The thing that gets me is, why did Irvine try to turn his car on a blind
: corner? Seems like a profound lack of judgement to me.
: Chris
After his intial spin he was blocking the track so the only thing he could
do was try and get out of the way. Unfortunately, he didn't make it in time.
Marshalls must be partly at fault for not signalling quickly enough.
--
Jan Richards, 65597 Huenfelden-Ohren, Germany Jan_Ri...@dge.ceo.dg.com
Current Transport: | Ode to a Squid:
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94 Rover Mini Cooper 1.3i {fun car "Mr.Bean"}| Half a mile onward,
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Magnus Larsson
wjustice wrote:
< Lots of things snipped >
>
> This makes him no less a man; just a wiser one. I suspect that for now, he
> will continue to shephard Coulthard along, lending his experience, but at some
> point soon he will probably face the fact that he can no longer strive for
> 10/10 performances; 9/10 is enough. Long as this suits his employers and
> himself, he will probably stay in F1, but as many great drivers who have
> suffered serious accidents before him, IMHO, Hakinnen has been "touched"
> by his accident and can no longer reconcile himself to give 100% to F1. I
> don't think that Hakinnen can reconcile himself to such a role for many more
> years.
>
<lots of other things snippped>
>
> --Willy Tamm ................... Scarborough ('burb' of Toronto), Canada
> ................... Moving soon to New Mexico, USA
> --WMHG© ........................ World's Most Humble Genius
Do you think that Berger is experiencing the same thing? He hasn't performed the
same results after his accident a couple of years ago (Sorry, doesn't know the
actual dates).
Markus Varsta
Ave !!!!
It was a dumb move by Irvine but the Finns did
not know about it at the time. !!
- Oho -
Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho
On 20 May 1996, Kimberly wrote:
> roy (r...@primenet.com) wrote:
>
> : I was not mad at Eddie because you can't do anything about
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> (yeah RIGHT! videotape doesn't lie, Mika :)
>
> : those kind of spins."
>
> either mika underwent a complete personality change before the interview,
> or he calmed down considerably and thought he could hide what *really*
> happened--that initially he wanted to have a "chat" with irvine...or it
> was a bad translation :)
>
> kimberly
Great to see you completely free of the burden of the logic. How could've
Hakkinen seen what Irvine did? If he had seen Irvine's stunt, he would
have not crashed to Salo's car in the first place. Videotape doesn't lie
(at least not with your skill's + equipment), but your brain constrains
your inference considerably.
Furthermore, if you are concerned about the quality of the translation,
please see MClaren's press release. Or see a doctor. By the way, the
gramatical mistakes in the text remain my own responsibility, not my
employer's.
Like the other guy, who made up a "fact" that Hakkinen is a known
hothead... Shit I read in this newsgroup never ceases to amaze me. This
is my contribution to the "pile".
:(
Tuomo
Santtu Asp TKKK
Ergos (Er...@leland.stanford.edu) wrote:
: In article <4non4p$7...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>, g...@bohr.physics.purdue.edu
: (Gabriele F. Giuliani) wrote:
:
: Hakkinen explicitly stated that he, as you correctly guessed, was simply
: trying to get out of the way of possible incoming traffic as soon as
: possible. gfg
:
:
: I am sorry but this is not the truth... if he had wanted to get out of the
: way, there was a much quicker way out, simply over the barriers. He
: clearly turned to Irvine and, had he nor been stopped, would have hit him.
:
:Why did he run past Irvine then? I think that if he was mad at anyone it
was the marshalls.
R.I.P. scott brayton
Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho (ptvu...@gsbphd4.uchicago.edu) wrote:
: Great to see you completely free of the burden of the logic. How could've
: Hakkinen seen what Irvine did? If he had seen Irvine's stunt, he would
: have not crashed to Salo's car in the first place. Videotape doesn't lie
: (at least not with your skill's + equipment), but your brain constrains
: your inference considerably.
obviously you didn't read my last post, in which i admitted my mistake.
should i restate it? i said that i took another look--a closer look--at
the videotape and saw for myself that hakkinen was not coming after
irvine.
: Furthermore, if you are concerned about the quality of the translation,
: please see MClaren's press release. Or see a doctor.
i made the remark "bad translation" *jokingly*, which is why i put that
smiley face after it.
how 'bout you lighten up? after noting that the majority of the posts
were against the theory that hakkinen was after irvine, i went and looked
at the videotape. I WAS WRONG, okay? excuuuuuuuse me for making my
error, but at least i owned up to it--and that was BEFORE i received your
post. and i know that what i thought isn't complete "shit,"
otherwise there woudn't even be a thread discussing "where was hakkinen
going?" because if it were THAT obvious that hakkinen's only intention was
to get away from the corner, it would be end-of-story, no need to discuss
further. i wasn't the only one who thought that hakkinen seemed to
want to make a go at irvine.
Gwyn Evans
In article <4num01$2...@ns1.nl.cis.philips.com>, Joris D inhuurkracht wrote:
>Do you have any idea WHY he would have to run, to get out of the way
>of the oncoming traffic. There were only 7 cars running at that moment,
>and this accident took out 3 more. I don't know what the gap was to
>the next car behind Hakkinen, but it must have been a large one.
What were the lap times... Around a minute & a half? Also, he might
have an idea about where the car behind him was but he'd have no idea
if there was one of the leaders coming up or how far back the Forti
car's might be. Given that he was just round the corner of a bend,
I'd suggest he wasn't angry at all but rather thinking very clearly
when he got up & out!
Gwyn
--
+==========================================================================+
| Gwyn Evans | Gwyn_...@mtits.co.uk | Views expressed and |
| MTI Trading Systems | MAG:BMF DoD #2020 | statements made are |
| Uxbridge, Middlesex, UK | gw...@cix.compulink.co.uk | mine, not MTI's |
+==========================================================================+
Scott Willsey
Magnus Larsson <mlar...@it.kth.se> wrote:
>
>Do you think that Berger is experiencing the same thing? He hasn't performed the
>same results after his accident a couple of years ago (Sorry, doesn't know the
>actual dates).
Berger's accident (well, the large one) was in '89. Since then he has certainly
driven up to his pre '89 level during several seasons. This season might not be
one of them so far, but I don't think his accident did anything to slow Berger
down.
Scott
.......scottie@teleport.com.......
Scott Willsey
wjus...@inforamp.net (wjustice) wrote:
>
>Niki Lauda did the same many years ago after his horrendous accident at the
>Nurburgring. Does anyone question his motivations? On the contrary, he has
>returned to the F1 scene as a 'consultant' and strong motivating force.
>
You neglected to mention that he first won two more world championships before
quitting f1 for good and then returning in the consultant role that you referred
to. I'd say that makes him a really bad example of someone who quit because
they couldn't make themselves achieve the level of driving they had before.
Scott
.......scottie@teleport.com.......
Joris D inhuurkracht
: >Does anyone know where Hakkinen was heading when he jumped out of his
: >car after the three-car shunt at Monaco? Initially, it looked like he
: >was going to 'discuss the situation' with Irvine, but he went past the
: >Ferrari's cockpit and was level with the front wheel, pushing the
: >marshall out the way, as the TV coverage moved on.....
: >
: >Any ideas?
Hi,
Do you have any idea WHY he would have to run, to get out of the way
of the oncoming traffic. There were only 7 cars running at that moment,
and this accident took out 3 more. I don't know what the gap was to
the next car behind Hakkinen, but it must have been a large one.
I think Hakkinen was angry at someone, got out of his car very quickly
(faster than Mika Salo did) and sprinted towards Irvine's car. As he
ran, he realised this was a silly thing to do and kinda aborted his
attack. Unfortunately, the marshall was in the way and Mika had to
push him out of the way. This of course is MHO.
Bye,
-Dennis.
--
Ing. D.M. Joris, Software Specialist,
Philips CE/ASA Lab, tel: +31 40 27 33826
Building : SFJ-7 +31 40 27 35365
E-mail : jor...@iclab.ce.philips.nl fax: +31 40 27 37353
: g...@iaehv.nl (na 21:00 reply)
Homepage : http://www.iaehv.nl/users/gto
====================================================================
Butt-Head: That SUCKS, uh uhu uhu.
Beavis: Yeah.... and it SUCKS too, uhuhu uhu uh.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Ali
he was going to have words with the marshals because they were too busy
looking at Irvine and not waving their yellow flags.
On Sun, 19 May 1996, Bizarre Creations wrote:
> Does anyone know where Hakkinen was heading when he jumped out of his
> car after the three-car shunt at Monaco? Initially, it looked like he
> was going to 'discuss the situation' with Irvine, but he went past the
> Ferrari's cockpit and was level with the front wheel, pushing the
> marshall out the way, as the TV coverage moved on.....
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Sarah
>
>
>
Mika Oyry
Er...@leland.stanford.edu (Ergos) wrote:
>
>I am sorry but this is not the truth... if he had wanted to get out of the
>way, there was a much quicker way out, simply over the barriers.
MIY--I think it was very fast situation and Mika didn't have time to think
where to go and he just ran away from his car..
He
>clearly turned to Irvine and, had he nor been stopped, would have hit him.
>
MIY--Is that what you saw ?? Irvine was in the car helmet on and Mika would
have hited him... No he is not that stupid, Don't give us BS, just facts.
BR Mika
Marko Ovaska
jfin...@Direct.Ca wrote:
: In article <thwack-1905...@ras059.ais.ucla.edu>, thw...@netcom.com says...
: >
: >The thing that gets me is, why did Irvine try to turn his car on a blind
: >corner? Seems like a profound lack of judgement to me.
: >
: >Chris
: Oh right! Next time he spins on a blind corner he should just continue
: *backwards* down the hill for about a half kilometer; then find a nice
: lady-like place to turn around. Alternativly he could just risk decapitation
: by staying put as the next few cars roar down on him around a the corner.
: I think he did about the only sensible thing.
: As has been stated elsewhere, Hakkenin and Salo were clearly shown the
: yellow flag. I'm not saying they had a lot of time to react, and I only
: saw one, but it was the guy straight in front of them as they were on
: the little bit of straight just after the 180 degree left-hander. It
: was very clear on replay of the tape.
I can't resist, even I have plenty more to go in this thread:
So you are stating that yellow flag means 'Others are warned, I may pull
my car blindly backwards in a dead angle of 180 deg. curve and fill the
road?'
And if we are further evaluating Eddie's jugment here: Since he knows
yellow flag is up, he hasn't stalled his engine, and left thumb is right
on reverse, Eddie decides to do ditch lady like turning (doesn't fit his
imago) and be a man. Knowing it rains a bit and anyone coming out from
the curve hasn't time to brake or anyway guy is on slicks...
Hey, Eddie is on slicks, too! And he spinned in the first place!
So actually, he's no harm to anyone since the next guy will spin, too.
And he has to make room to next one.
So, Eddie was actually doing the most profound reasoning there!
Also, Irvine had to be aware of Salo and Häkkinen racing just behind him
even in the narrow Monaco. Or then his mirrors were smoggy...
which was a know fact to Panis, Coulthart and others... Again, Eddie
was actually doing a favor to next one coming to curve by getting out
of the way. Since Eddie did not want to spoil his dear fellows race. Wasn't
he couple of laps behind already?
Marko
--
no .sig
no .plan
Ross Clement
In article <31a0b012...@news.islandnet.com>,
Sylvan Smyth <syl...@islandnet.com> wrote:
>He glanced at Irvine - as he ran right past him. The marshal didn't get
>into his way until Hakkinen reached Irvine's front tire. Hakkinen
>clearly pushes him with the intent of continuing running. Anyone who
>thinks he was going after Irvine obviously didn't see the incident.
Perhaps Hakkinen was planning to fart in Irvine's general direction....
Cheers,
Ross-c
wjustice
Hi Scott!
Since you also sent me this post by Email, that's where I responded. Just
noticed that you'd also posted to Usenet. So, for the sake of anyone
following this NG, I'll post a very abreviated version of my Email response.
>wjus...@inforamp.net (wjustice) wrote:
>>
>>Niki Lauda did the same many years ago after his horrendous accident at the
>>Nurburgring. Does anyone question his motivations? On the contrary, he has
>>returned to the F1 scene as a 'consultant' and strong motivating force.
>You neglected to mention that he first won two more world championships
>before quitting f1 for good and then returning in the consultant role that
>you referred to.
After avidly following Formula One for over thirty-five years, I consider
myself somewhat of an "old-timer" who cannot be accused of "neglecting" to
mention anything, as you seem to imply. :<))
After following some 500 F1 races, a lot of memories and facts get muddled
together. I did not "neglect" to mention Lauda; I plain forgot. Thank you
for setting the record straight.
> I'd say that makes him a really bad example of someone who
>quit because they couldn't make themselves achieve the level of driving they
>had before.
Notwithstanding, a driver who has suffered serious injuries, has seldom
returned to bigger and better things. They remain talented professionals who
can get on with the job, but little hesitations, little inconsistencies in lap
times, (etc- varies with the individual in question) are only human, and even
Formual One drivers are human.
Some can put incidents out of mind more than others. Some only appear to do
so, and some are clearly affected. I named Lauda, because I know that he
became more active than ever in the GPDA on issues of safety, immediately
after his accident. I have forget that he returned to driving.
Notwithstanding, I don't think that it is fair to start a thread on which
drivers have or have not been "spooked" by serious accidents. All people are
different and it is also near impossible to imagine the "fright-level" to an
individual driver during an incident as well as the hardship of recuperating
afterwards.
Thanks for pointing out my oversight Scott,
BIG MAX
r...@primenet.com (roy) wrote:
>According to Hakkinen's interview on the Finnish MTV3 site, Mika was in a
>hurry to get out of the way of oncoming traffic. Here is my attempt at a
>translation:
>"The crash with Eddie Irvine and Salo was a typical racing accident. I
>didn't even have time to brake before I rear-ended Salo. I jumped out of
>the car as quickly as possible because if another car would have
>rear-ended me, that car could have flowm over me and could have taken my
>head with it. I was not mad at Eddie because you can't do anything about
>those kind of spins."
I don't know. If you're in such a hurry why would you push the marshal
so violently, and why the hell you run on the track. The logical thing
to do if you really are trying to get clear is to run to the barriers
and pass them.
Nice try Mika, but I think you wanted to 'discuss the things over'
with Irvine.
BIG MAX
"All too easy" - Darth Vader
"Just squeeze your rage into a bitter little ball
and release it at the appropriate time" - Homer Simpson
"No he didn't" - John Cleese, Monty Python
"My name is George; I'm unemployed
and I live with my parents" - George Costanza, Seinfeld
Richard Steele
In article <31a2cacf...@news.teleport.com>, sco...@teleport.com
(Scott Willsey) wrote:
> Magnus Larsson <mlar...@it.kth.se> wrote:
>
> >
> >Do you think that Berger is experiencing the same thing? He hasn't
performed the
> >same results after his accident a couple of years ago (Sorry, doesn't
know the
> >actual dates).
The Scott Willsey wrote:
but I don't think his accident did anything to slow Berger
> down.
Berger's performance of late is probably more attributable to Senna's
death more than anything else. He took that death probably as hard as any
of the other drivers, and there were some that say Berger was going to
retire.
As another post said, both he and Hakkinen have probably seen the bloom
come off of their careers as drivers and may not hold the passion for the
sport that they once did.
Richard Steele
ric...@lava.net
wjustice
Hi Magnus,
>wjustice wrote:
>< Lots of things snipped >
>>
>> This makes him no less a man; just a wiser one. I suspect that for now, he
>> will continue to shephard Coulthard along, lending his experience, but at
>> some point soon he will probably face the fact that he can no longer strive
>> for
>> 10/10 performances; 9/10 is enough. Long as this suits his employers and
>> himself, he will probably stay in F1, but as many great drivers who have
>> suffered serious accidents before him, IMHO, Hakkinen has been "touched"
>> by his accident and can no longer reconcile himself to give 100% to F1. I
>> don't think that Hakinnen can reconcile himself to such a role for many
>> more years.
>>
><lots of other things snippped>
>Do you think that Berger is experiencing the same thing? He hasn't performed
>the same results after his accident a couple of years ago (Sorry, doesn't
>know the actual dates).
I don't recall Berger ever experiencing a very serious accident in formula
one. He's had some very spectacular, high speed "offs" over the years, but
accidents that involved extended hospitalization as with Hakkinen; someone
please fill in my memory.
Notwithstanding, Berger has been around a long time, seen a lot of things and
IMHO does not lack for imagination as to what sort of things can go wrong,
even with today's vastly safer cars and tracks. He seems to have been quite
upset by the past deaths of other drivers.
Assuming that he hasn't been affected by any accident to himself (someone
please correct me if I am wrong), I think that he continues to put in a
creditable performance. He has been driving cars both at Ferrari and now
at Benetton, which don't seem to rate high on the reliability scale. Also,
he's a team player and isn't likely to push Alesi should he be behind him.
What can Berger do in his present situation? Put on an inspiring show like
Alesi and virtually guarantee a DNF, or drive to finish and collect as many
points as his car merits?
--Willy Tamm .................... Scarborough ('burb' of Toronto)
Moving soon to New Mexico, USA
--WMHG© ......................... World's Most Humble Genius
Markus Varsta
> I don't recall Berger ever experiencing a very serious accident in formula
> one. He's had some very spectacular, high speed "offs" over the years, but
> accidents that involved extended hospitalization as with Hakkinen; someone
> please fill in my memory.
Ave !!!
Berger almost died in the Tamburello curve that later
claimed Senna. This happened around the turn of the decade.
I dont recall wheter it was a testing accident or a
qualifying accident.
- Oho
Tero Turtiainen
var...@castor.it.lut.fi (Markus Varsta) writes:
>> I don't recall Berger ever experiencing a very serious accident in formula
>> one. He's had some very spectacular, high speed "offs" over the years, but
>> accidents that involved extended hospitalization as with Hakkinen; someone
>> please fill in my memory.
> claimed Senna. This happened around the turn of the decade.
> I dont recall wheter it was a testing accident or a
> qualifying accident.
It was in the early laps of the San Marino GP 1989. His Ferrari crashed into
the concrete wall at Tamburello and was burst in flames. I was really scared
when I saw that on TV. I think he was not fit enough to race in the next
GP.
--
<-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=->
< Tero Turtiainen | Yes Sir, may I lick your boots or do your Highness >
< turt...@lut.fi | use dry cleaning? - Stone >
<-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=->
Antonio Garcia Rios
On 28 May 1996, Markus Varsta wrote:
> > I don't recall Berger ever experiencing a very serious accident in formula
>
> Berger almost died in the Tamburello curve that later
> claimed Senna. This happened around the turn of the decade.
> I dont recall wheter it was a testing accident or a
> qualifying accident.
I can't remember the year, but I think it was 1990 or 1991, and the
accident happened during the race, I think that in the first laps... the
accident was like Senna's, although the impact were less terrible, as the
car knocked the wall at the curve entry, so it continued going along the
wall; it didn't seem very serious, but when the car finally stopped and
Berger was triying to get out, the fire suddenly began... it was a very
impressive fire; moreover, Berger did not get out of the car until the
firemen and marshalls stopped it; I think he was in the firing car for a
minute, because the safety belt didn't work properly, and he suffered
burnings in his hands and neck; I can't remember if he had a leg broken
by the impact... It was one of the worst accidents in the decade. If my
mind works, the race was red flagged...
-antonio- http://www.ugr.es/~grios
Paul Finney
In article <4oekc8$v...@taipaani.cc.lut.fi> turt...@taipaani.cc.lut.fi (Tero Turtiainen) writes:
> var...@castor.it.lut.fi (Markus Varsta) writes:
> >> I don't recall Berger ever experiencing a very serious accident in formula
> >> accidents that involved extended hospitalization as with Hakkinen; someone
> >> please fill in my memory.
> > claimed Senna. This happened around the turn of the decade.
> > I dont recall wheter it was a testing accident or a
> > qualifying accident.
>
> the concrete wall at Tamburello and was burst in flames. I was really scared
> when I saw that on TV. I think he was not fit enough to race in the next
> GP.
He was stuck in the car for almost two minutes, the separate air-oxygen
supply was responsible for saving his life at
the time, if I remember correctly.
--
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Paul Finney
Pa...@g4wbf.demon.co.uk
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Andy Davidson
Markus Varsta wrote:
>
>
> Berger almost died in the Tamburello curve that later
> claimed Senna. This happened around the turn of the decade.
> I dont recall wheter it was a testing accident or a
> qualifying accident.
>
> - Oho
It was in a an actual race I believe.
:)
Bob Gilbert
In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.960529095226.29159A-100000@goliat>, Antonio Garcia Rios <grios@goliat> writes:
>
> On 28 May 1996, Markus Varsta wrote:
>
> >
> > claimed Senna. This happened around the turn of the decade.
> > I dont recall wheter it was a testing accident or a
> > qualifying accident.
>
> accident happened during the race, I think that in the first laps... the
Correct, early laps of the race.
> accident was like Senna's, although the impact were less terrible, as the
Actually, the impact was similar in magnitude, heavy but survivable.
> car knocked the wall at the curve entry, so it continued going along the
> wall; it didn't seem very serious, but when the car finally stopped and
Correct, Berger left the road earlier in the corner than Senna, and the
car slide along the wall for some distance.
> Berger was triying to get out, the fire suddenly began... it was a very
Berger was not trying to get out, he was unconscious. The fuel cell, allowed
to be carried in the side pods then, was ruptured in the impact. It was
early in the race, so the fuel cell was filled to capacity.
> impressive fire;
Yes it was!
> moreover, Berger did not get out of the car until the
> firemen and marshalls stopped it; I think he was in the firing car for a
> minute, because the safety belt didn't work properly, and he suffered
The marshals were very quick on the scene and put the fire out fast, but
the car was fully engulfed for 15-20 seconds which seemed like an eternity
at the time. AFAIK, the belts worked properly.
> burnings in his hands and neck; I can't remember if he had a leg broken
> by the impact... It was one of the worst accidents in the decade. If my
> mind works, the race was red flagged...
I believe he only suffered a very mild concussion, some (heavy) bruising from
the belts, and the relatively minor burns on the hands and neck.
-Bob
dabi...@raleigh.ibm.com
In <Pine.SUN.3.91.960529095226.29159A-100000@goliat>, Antonio Garcia Rios <grios@goliat> writes:
:>
:>On 28 May 1996, Markus Varsta wrote:
:>
:>> > I don't recall Berger ever experiencing a very serious accident in formula
:>>
:>> Berger almost died in the Tamburello curve that later
:>> claimed Senna. This happened around the turn of the decade.
:>> I dont recall wheter it was a testing accident or a
:>> qualifying accident.
:>
:>I can't remember the year, but I think it was 1990 or 1991, and the
:>accident happened during the race, I think that in the first laps... the
:>car knocked the wall at the curve entry, so it continued going along the
:>wall; it didn't seem very serious, but when the car finally stopped and
:>impressive fire; moreover, Berger did not get out of the car until the
:>firemen and marshalls stopped it; I think he was in the firing car for a
:>minute, because the safety belt didn't work properly, and he suffered
:>by the impact... It was one of the worst accidents in the decade. If my
:>mind works, the race was red flagged...
:> -antonio- http://www.ugr.es/~grios
what I'll never understand is why morons are still allowed to run Imola
(well now they've ruined the track with chicanes). Piquet hit
Tamburello in 86 or 87 (pretty bad if I can recall), then Berger in 89 (Mansell was
understandably shaken having to get back in the car not knowing what caused it)
and then Senna. It seems that at least one or two rows of tyres along the wall
could've saved Senna's life, by absorbing just enough energy from the suspension
so it might not've pierced his helmet.
David (dabi...@raleigh.ibm.com)
Official International David Coulthard Fan Club
My opinions do not represent my employer or the OIDCFC
David Johnson
:>I can't remember the year, but I think it was 1990 or 1991, and the
:>accident happened during the race, I think that in the first laps... the
:>accident was like Senna's, although the impact were less terrible, as the
:>car knocked the wall at the curve entry, so it continued going along the
:>wall; it didn't seem very serious, but when the car finally stopped and
:>Berger was triying to get out, the fire suddenly began
I thought I heard an interview with Berger about what went through
his mind during the fire and he said, "Nothing, I was unconscious."
--
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
da...@xlnt.com
Mike Strong
He received slight burns; his hands were the worst.
It happened in 89 as he started his second lap.
I think he missed only one race.
Enjoy!
Mike Strong
Antonio Garcia Rios
On 31 May 1996 dabi...@raleigh.ibm.com wrote:
> :>I can't remember the year, but I think it was 1990 or 1991, and the
> :>accident happened during the race, I think that in the first laps... the
> :>accident was like Senna's, although the impact were less terrible, as the
> :>...
> :>mind works, the race was red flagged...
> what I'll never understand is why morons are still allowed to run Imola
> (well now they've ruined the track with chicanes). Piquet hit
> Tamburello in 86 or 87 (pretty bad if I can recall), then Berger in 89 (Mansell was
> understandably shaken having to get back in the car not knowing what caused it)
> and then Senna. It seems that at least one or two rows of tyres along the wall
> could've saved Senna's life, by absorbing just enough energy from the suspension
> so it might not've pierced his helmet.
I've said sometimes that's no point in changing the tracks... they only
need more room, more sand tramps and more tyres over the walls. Nobody
had changed the wall at Tamburello (which caused all tragedies you
mentioned above) until Senna died... Senna would be running now if the
wall would have been retired sooner, and the asphalt out of the track would
have been changed by sand... just like it all is actually; and Tamburello
could have continued as it was... Tamburello, and Aqua Minerale, and the
las curve before pit lane entry, and the long straighs at Hockemheim, and
Montreal track, and Barcelona and Jerez... these all tracks (and others)
have been changed due to Senna's dead, when the cause of his dead was the
nearness of the wall to the track...
-antonio-
JOHNNY B. GOOD
David Johnson (da...@xlnt.com) wrote:
: :>I can't remember the year, but I think it was 1990 or 1991, and the
It was in 1989...
Johnny B. Good
Scott Willsey
da...@xlnt.com (David Johnson) wrote:
>
>I thought I heard an interview with Berger about what went through
>his mind during the fire and he said, "Nothing, I was unconscious."
>
>
That is correct. Berger was not trying to get out of the car, he was knocked
out.
Scott
.......scottie@teleport.com.......
that's MR scottie to you!!!!!