Didier Pironi caused Gilles Villeneuve's death!!!
Seng Soo Khin Pris
Hi to all,
I was reading a review of the 1982 season and came across the feud between
Pironi and Villeneuve after the Imola race. Obviously, my impressions of
Pironi were that of a despicable and lying ass-hole. He disregarded team
orders and overtook Villeneuve when they had earlier agreed that whichever
man leading after the half distance should win the race. The problem with
Villeneuve was that he was too trusting and honourable towards Pironi. He
keeps his promises and adheres to team orders. Otherwise, he could have
selfishly overtaken Jody Scheckter on many occasions in 1979. He would have
been the WC that year instead!!!
Villeneuve died going over the limits in trying to outqualify Pironi. If
the Imola incident didn't occur, perharps the legend of Villeneuve could
have graced F1 longer.
Anyway, I was glad justice was served to Pironi. Not only did he fail to
win in 1982 after leading the table, the old bastard was killed in a boat
crash in 1987.
Rest in Peace, Gilles Villeneuve.
Pris Seng
Mike Pisenti
I think this is a bit harsh. I was and continue to be a huge Gilles fan,
and I believe that what happened at Imola caused Gilles to go all out at
Zolder in qualifying to beat Didier. When I heard of Gilles' death, I was
devastated. I, too, blamed Pironi. But Pironi was not involved with Gilles'
accident on the track. I feel that Didier was truly remorseful for what
happened, and thought much of Gilles. In fact, when Pironi died, his
girlfriend was pregnant with twin boys, and she named them Gilles and
Didier.
What was going through Pironi's head that day in Imola? Who knows. But I'll
bet that if he knew what would come of it, he would have acted differently.
Mike
Reno, Nevada USA
Seng Soo Khin Pris <pris...@singnet.com.sg> wrote in article
<01bbee2a$fe2cb300$3aa4...@Singnet.singnet.com.sg>...
Christopher Kungie
I think it is unfair to Gilles to suggest that Pironi caused his death.
Gilles spoke out many times on how he felt that qualifying tires were
dangerous because of the pressure they put on a driver during his one
hot lap. I believe his accident was a "qualifying tire accident" and not
a "mad at his teammate" accident. He predicted an accident exactly like
his some time before he died.
Chris Kungie
Seppi97
Yes, from what I have read, Pironi did not play fair to Gilles. But
fairness
is not part of the game in F1 (alot of folks wish it could be) .
It was Gilles mistake that cost him his death, you cannot blame Pironi
for playing typical F1 games. There was nothing new there and games
continue to happen in F1. It's a tough league.
Pris Seng, you are very disappointing, justice in dying? :-( You are
sad.
Alan Head
On 20 Dec 1996 04:05:17 GMT, "Seng Soo Khin Pris"
<pris...@singnet.com.sg> wrote:
>Hi to all,
>
<snip>
>
>Villeneuve died going over the limits in trying to outqualify Pironi. If
>the Imola incident didn't occur, perharps the legend of Villeneuve could
>have graced F1 longer.
>
>Anyway, I was glad justice was served to Pironi. Not only did he fail to
>win in 1982 after leading the table, the old bastard was killed in a boat
>crash in 1987.
>
Leave Didier alone!
The facts of the accident are these:
1. Didier did ignore the "gentlemen's agreement" about Imola.
2. Gilles, being the consummate gentleman, was understandably pissed
off about this and refused to speak to Didier again. If he had not
been killed this situation may have changed.
3. Gilles was killed on a very hotlap when he ran into the back of a
confused driver (I forget who, but a very famous old driver...), their
wheels touched and Gilles car was launched. I saw this accident on the
news that day and it is one of the biggest I have ever seen.
4. It was a "racing accident". For a similar accident (luckily with no
fatalities) see Patrese and Berger at Estoril a few seasons back when
Patrese hit Berger going into the pits and was launched down the main
straight at very high speed.
5. Didier who was by all accounts a heartless bastard at times (I
agree with this in your post) was gutted by Gilles' death. By all
accounts (see Sid Watkin's book "Life at the Limit" published this
year) he developed a bit of a "death wish" after the accident. At the
following race in Hockenheim he crashed his Ferrari heavily into the
back of a slow car whilst driving in heavy spray and severely broke
his legs.
6. So being a "heartless old bastard" justifies a nasty death does it?
I saw the powerboat accident (it took place about 5 miles from my
home) and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. There are many heartless
bastards in Formula One, although I'm not going to name names! You
have to be ruthless to be a top racing driver, which is why Damon Hill
took so long to win, and why Berger still hasn't won.
Alan Head
Screamer 2 homepages:
Http://www.feature.demon.co.uk/games.htm
-----------------------------------------
eliot
In article <32be384c...@news.demon.co.uk>,
>confused driver (I forget who, but a very famous old driver...),
actually, it was on his "cool down" lap. he had already run the number
of laps the qualifying tires would last and did not slow down on the
cool down lap. many would presume that this was because his qualifying
time was still slower than pironi's, and that he was still furious.
i don't think that one could point the finger at a *single* cause of
his accident. there were many factors involved, the tires, jochen mass'
confusion and not least the fued with didier.
>5. Didier who was by all accounts a heartless bastard at times (I
>agree with this in your post) was gutted by Gilles' death. By all
>accounts (see Sid Watkin's book "Life at the Limit" published this
>year) he developed a bit of a "death wish" after the accident. At the
>following race in Hockenheim he crashed his Ferrari heavily into the
>back of a slow car whilst driving in heavy spray and severely broke
>his legs.
i believe that there were a couple of races between zolder and hockenheim.
eliot
akacz...@aol.com
In Article <32be384c...@news.demon.co.uk>, ah...@feature.demon.co.uk
(Alan Head) wrote:
>3. Gilles was killed on a very hotlap when he ran into the back of a
>confused driver (I forget who, but a very famous old driver...), their
You call Jochen Mass a "famous old driver" ;-)
Andre
Thomas Cohen
Well, he was well-known, and had been around for a while. I think
it's a bit rough to call him 'confused'. If anything he was showing
that he was aware - he moved out of the way of Gilles, unfortunately
Gilles had already decided to go around him, so they both avoided
each other...
cheerio,
thos
Keith Allsop
Seng Soo Khin Pris wrote:
>
> Hi to all,
>
> I was reading a review of the 1982 season and came across the feud between
> Pironi and Villeneuve after the Imola race. Obviously, my impressions of
> Pironi were that of a despicable and lying ass-hole. He disregarded team
> orders and overtook Villeneuve when they had earlier agreed that whichever
> man leading after the half distance should win the race. The problem with
> Villeneuve was that he was too trusting and honourable towards Pironi. He
> keeps his promises and adheres to team orders. Otherwise, he could have
> selfishly overtaken Jody Scheckter on many occasions in 1979. He would have
> been the WC that year instead!!!
>
> the Imola incident didn't occur, perharps the legend of Villeneuve could
> have graced F1 longer.
>
> Anyway, I was glad justice was served to Pironi. Not only did he fail to
> win in 1982 after leading the table, the old bastard was killed in a boat
> crash in 1987.
>
>
> Pris Seng
It was Gilles CHOICE to go balls-out all the time. A fast, competent
driver in the same team just adds to the pressure.
Keith.
Roy Glikin
What is little known to the racing public - although discreetly mentioned
in Gerald Donaldson's biography of Gilles - it that Gilles was conducting
an affair with a "lady friend." By the account it was a very intense
relationship, different from the traditional marriage he had with his
wife.
Pironi's actions at Imola were a betrayal of trust. Gilles was betrayed
in other ways at the beginning of 1982, as in the discovery that the
proposed "Team Gilles" (to be Villeneuve's own F1 team) was actually a
con. Gilles retreated to those thing in his life which symbolized
security - including a reconciliation with his wife, just prior to the
race at Zolder.
This conflict between his familiar, down-home Quebecois sense of security
and the new opportunities available to him in the wider world of which F1
is a part, led to his extreme reaction to the Pironi incident. A
Villeneuve more sure of himself, and his place in the world, would have
shrugged it off as "little actions by a little man."
F1 fans forget the sheer scale of the changes in Gilles life, from rural
Quebec farmboy, living in a trailer, driving a Skoda to international
star, living in Monaco, travelling by personal helicopter. In and of
itself the events at Imola are trivial, the scale they took on has roots
elsewhere. The story of Gilles Villeneuve is a tragedy of Shakespearian
proportions; one not confined to the narrow world of racing.
Alan Head
Yep, that is more or less what I meant - it was just a racing accident
caused in the split second of decision making.
Alan Head
Screamer 2 homepages:
Http://www.feature.demon.co.uk/games.htm
-----------------------------------------
***********Merry Christams!!!************
Alan Head
On 22 Dec 1996 20:12:49 GMT, akacz...@aol.com wrote:
>In Article <32be384c...@news.demon.co.uk>, ah...@feature.demon.co.uk
>(Alan Head) wrote:
>
>>3. Gilles was killed on a very hotlap when he ran into the back of a
>>confused driver (I forget who, but a very famous old driver...), their
>You call Jochen Mass a "famous old driver" ;-)
>
>Andre
>
>
I just didn't have the facts to hand at the time I made the posting, I
just knew that it was definitely a very famous racing name (isn't he
racing the new Porsche in the Global GT's at the moment?)
Alan Head
On Mon, 23 Dec 1996 13:21:28 -0500, rm...@mail.idt.net (Roy Glikin)
wrote:
>
>F1 fans forget the sheer scale of the changes in Gilles life, from rural
>Quebec farmboy, living in a trailer, driving a Skoda to international
>star, living in Monaco, travelling by personal helicopter. In and of
>itself the events at Imola are trivial, the scale they took on has roots
>elsewhere. The story of Gilles Villeneuve is a tragedy of Shakespearian
>proportions; one not confined to the narrow world of racing.
Heartfelt comments that are perhaps a little rare in this group. If
there was ever a season that would make an excellent subject for a
'90s version of the movie "Grand Prix" it would have to be '82. Gilles
death is just about my first memory of F1 which is perhaps why I
responded quite harshly to the initial post. Only Imola '94 has come
close in bringing home the emotion of that weekend...
Phil
"Seng Soo Khin Pris" <pris...@singnet.com.sg> wrote:
>Hi to all,
>I was reading a review of the 1982 season and came across the feud between
>Pironi and Villeneuve after the Imola race. Obviously, my impressions of
>Pironi were that of a despicable and lying ass-hole. He disregarded team
>orders and overtook Villeneuve when they had earlier agreed that whichever
>man leading after the half distance should win the race. The problem with
>Villeneuve was that he was too trusting and honourable towards Pironi. He
>keeps his promises and adheres to team orders. Otherwise, he could have
>selfishly overtaken Jody Scheckter on many occasions in 1979. He would have
>been the WC that year instead!!!
>Villeneuve died going over the limits in trying to outqualify Pironi. If
>the Imola incident didn't occur, perharps the legend of Villeneuve could
>have graced F1 longer.
>Anyway, I was glad justice was served to Pironi. Not only did he fail to
>win in 1982 after leading the table, the old bastard was killed in a boat
>crash in 1987.
>Rest in Peace, Gilles Villeneuve.
>Pris Seng
Les faits sont exacts mais quelle betise de croire que Villeneuve est
mort par la faute de Pironi .
Et encore je suis gentil !!!
Phil ...
Jan Golz
On Sun, 22 Dec 1996 13:46:33 GMT, ah...@feature.demon.co.uk (Alan
Head) wrote:
>3. Gilles was killed on a very hotlap when he ran into the back of a
>confused driver (I forget who, but a very famous old driver...)
I agree on confused and old (and would add slow), but I wouldn´t call
Jochen Mass famous, at least at that time. Today he is famous because
of being the worst F1 commentator in the western part of our universe.
Have you ever heard him? You should spend some minutes on it, you
would be astonished how bad a commentator can be, without being
removed.
Jan
"Wait for me, I won´t be long", Gilles Villeneuve
Lincoln Chan
Alan Head wrote:
>
> Heartfelt comments that are perhaps a little rare in this group. If
> there was ever a season that would make an excellent subject for a
> '90s version of the movie "Grand Prix" it would have to be '82.
I do not recall the storyline of "Grand Prix". Certainly the saga of
Gilles and Didier could make a good movie. Here is some of the events that
people have not mentioned in this post that would easily turn the story into
a movie.
1) A young Italian driver was killed after crashing into the back of Didier's
car at the track just renamed after Gilles Villeneuve.
2) Someone else have post this. Didier's freak accident in Germany.
3) Patrick Tambay's victory in San Marino with the Ferrari numbered #27 a
year later. He was Gilles' best friend. After the race, he kept talking
about he got revenge for Gilles and how he almost felt liked Gilles have
entered the car spirtually.
4) A few months after Didier's death in a boat accident, came the most
dramatic story and yet not many people knew about it ....Didier's girlfriend
gave birth to a twin. She named them Gilles and Didier.
Craig Hull
Lincoln Chan wrote:
[snipped]
> I do not recall the storyline of "Grand Prix". Certainly the saga of
> Gilles and Didier could make a good movie. Here is some of the events that
> people have not mentioned in this post that would easily turn the story into
> a movie.
>
> 1) A young Italian driver was killed after crashing into the back of Didier's
> car at the track just renamed after Gilles Villeneuve.
>
> 2) Someone else have post this. Didier's freak accident in Germany.
>
> 3) Patrick Tambay's victory in San Marino with the Ferrari numbered #27 a
> year later. He was Gilles' best friend. After the race, he kept talking
> about he got revenge for Gilles and how he almost felt liked Gilles have
> entered the car spirtually.
>
> 4) A few months after Didier's death in a boat accident, came the most
> dramatic story and yet not many people knew about it ....Didier's girlfriend
> gave birth to a twin. She named them Gilles and Didier.
Didn't Villeneuve and Pironi also end up with the same total number of
points scored in F1. Was it 101?
Craig.
Stefan Jonsson
This whole thread is tasteless. Way out of line. Villeneuve drove the
car, he died.
How can anybody with a normal mind be glad about Pironis boat accident?
Do you live in the dark ages?
Absolutely awful! Motor racing is not a very good buisness for the one
about to be a gentleman. Winning at any price is what you try for. But be
blamed for an accident you were not involved in? How stupid can you get?
And then be glad when a boat accident happens years later? Exuse me for
being offended but please think about what you are writing!
stefan.jonsson
leje...@worldaccess.nl
> On 20 Dec 1996 04:05:17 GMT, "Seng Soo Khin Pris"
> <pris...@singnet.com.sg> wrote:
>
> >Hi to all,
> >
> <snip>
> >
> >Villeneuve died going over the limits in trying to outqualify Pironi. If
> >the Imola incident didn't occur, perharps the legend of Villeneuve could
> >have graced F1 longer.
> >
> >Anyway, I was glad justice was served to Pironi. Not only did he fail to
> >win in 1982 after leading the table, the old bastard was killed in a boat
> >crash in 1987.
> >
> Leave Didier alone!
>
> The facts of the accident are these:
>
> 1. Didier did ignore the "gentlemen's agreement" about Imola.
> 2. Gilles, being the consummate gentleman, was understandably pissed
> off about this and refused to speak to Didier again. If he had not
> been killed this situation may have changed.
> 3. Gilles was killed on a very hotlap when he ran into the back of a
> confused driver (I forget who, but a very famous old driver...),
This was the german Jochen Mass, not so famous !!
> I am a true Gilles Villeneuve fan, in my home I have a gigantic poster and a
> sort of Gilles Memorial (look at my e-mail adress 27=for Gilles!).
But too blame Pironi and being glad he is dead too?? First I was hoping Mass
would get killed and then Pironi crashed, was I glad no, not really.
When you read about Gilles, he liked Mass, hated after Imola and yes maybe he
took some extra risc, and there was no extra risc for Gilles because he was
always on the limit and maybe over the limit. But then again, sad as I was over
the lost of Gilles, I never can say I was glad Pironi got killed, but neither
sad.
And about Mass?? Jacques Villeneuve spoke to Mass and did normal tot the guy,
what us us fan's then the right too blame Mass?
Let's stop this discussion and think back about poor Gilles, maybe not the best
driver ever but for sure the most spectacular and fastest driver of all times.
Piccolo Canadiense I love you!
And Jacques just for once: say something to the fan's of you're dead father!
André Prégent
snip
Piccolo Canadiense I love you!
>And Jacques just for once: say something to the fan's of you're dead father!
>
Just read his new book, he speaks (finally) glowingly of his late great father...
André Prégent
Earth Sciences Data Manager
http://sts.gsc.nrcan.gc.ca
**I'm not talking to myself anymore, I use OS/2 V4! Hey I'm Warped !! **
Sennaesque
there was an excellent article sometime between 82-85 about the day...
I dont remember the driver either...he was on his cool down lap(?)...was
moving off line to allow others by(as he should)...Gilles was verry hot
and into his lap(warm-up,before the qualifier?)...as always...he saw the
slower car, moved off-line to pass and they collided...some would say his
death was unnecessary........they have never raced
If you'd like I could find out, but I beleive he said "...I shalln't be
long"
just a few points I thought you all be interested in
TOlson9466
If I remember correctly, it was Jochen Mass who Villeneuve collided with.
Greg Brokenshire
In article <19970109065...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
senna...@aol.com (Sennaesque) wrote:
>If you'd like I could find out, but I beleive he said "...I shalln't be
>long"
I believe Gilles almost always said this to his wife Joanne before he raced,
however, the family was not in Belgium that day.
>
>just a few points I thought you all be interested in
For the full story, I suggest you read Gerry Donaldson's biography on Gilles.
It is excellent.
Greg
Greg Brokenshire
In article <E3pBv...@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>,
pre...@gsc.nrcan.gc.ca (André Prégent) wrote:
>snip
>Piccolo Canadiense I love you!
>>And Jacques just for once: say something to the fan's of you're dead father!
>>
>
>Just read his new book, he speaks (finally) glowingly of his late great
father...
>
Jacques ideas from Gerry Donaldson's. There is no doubt that Mr Donaldson is a
great fan of Gilles having covered his career for us here in Canada.
Greg
Craig Hull
In article <19970109145...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
tolso...@aol.com (TOlson9466) writes:
> If I remember correctly, it was Jochen Mass who Villeneuve collided with.
For those interested, I was reminded by an article in the local
newspaper today that Jochen Mass won his category in the 1996 Targa
Tasmania in Australia. He was driving a beautiful, old Porsche RS60.
Craig Hull
e-mail: c.h...@ento.uq.edu.au
Dennis E Machie
thought it was prost, hmmm then whose death did prost cause ?
TOlson9466
Prost didn't cause Pironi's death, but the Pironi's accident with Prost
(Hockenheim?) put Pironi out of F1. A few years later Pironi launched his
boat at full speed over the wake of a passing tanker and died. Ironically,
his girlfriend had a twins and named one of the Gilles.
Mike Pisenti
Dennis E Machie <n1...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
<01bbfe91$ba928c60$485292cf@quantex-p100>...
> thought it was prost, hmmm then whose death did prost cause ?
>
Didier Pironi ran into the back of Prost in wet practice at Hockenheim in
1982. It didn't kill Pironi, but effectively ended his driving career.
Very reminiscent of Gilles Villeneuve's fatal accident earlier that year at
Zolder.
Mike Pisenti
Reno Nevada USA
Gary Jarl
It was Mass that Villeneuve collided with. Many, however, blame Pironi due
to the rivalry between him and Villenueve. Gilles may have been trying too
hard to beat Pironi's times. It all started at the San Marino Grand Prix
when Pironi passed Villeneuve with a very risky move on the last lap for
the the win, thus violating convention that if teammates were one two there
would be no passing. Not to mention the fact that Villeneuve was the
number one driver on the team.
TOlson9466 <tolso...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970109145...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
W.J.G...@ncl.ac.uk
"Dennis E Machie" <n1...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
:thought it was prost, hmmm then whose death did prost cause ?
:
:
This line of conversation is starting to get very ghoulish. Prost didn't
cause anyone's death - Prioni simply ran into the back of him in low
visibility conditions. And he didn't die.
JOHN
Martin Bridges
On 13 Jan 1997 13:15:40 GMT, yu17...@yorku.ca (Steven Scala) wrote:
>
> As the only WC to have won posthumously, not only does he stand out
>among World Champions, but consider that he must have been having quite a
>season before his crash in the Italian GP to have gathered enough points
>for the championship. That said, I suspect that Jochen Mass may have been
>quite a force in the early eighties if he had lived. Sadly, we will never
>know for sure. The least we could do is remember him, and hope that we
>will never have to see another World Championship won posthumously.
>
> -Steven Scala.
I think you're getting confused with Jochen Rindt. Jochen Mass never
won the WC.
Martin
* Martin G Bridges brid...@logica.com *
* Logica UK Ltd http://www.logica.com *
* London, UK Tel. +44 (0)171 637 9111 *
* All opinions expressed are mine, not Logica's *
Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro
Steven Scala (yu17...@yorku.ca) wrote:
> leje...@worldaccess.nl wrote:
> : > 3. Gilles was killed on a very hotlap when he ran into the back of a
> : > confused driver (I forget who, but a very famous old driver...),
> : This was the german Jochen Mass, not so famous !!
> As the only WC to have won posthumously, not only does he stand out
You are confusing him with Jochen Rindt, 1972's world champion, who died
in Monza that year. (I hope I have the year right. I can not check the
statistics page right now).
--
http://www.mat.uc.pt/~rps/f1/ an ex-tifoso since 95/11/13
.pt is Portugal| `Whom the gods love die young'-Menander (342-292 BC)
Europe | Villeneuve 50-82, Toivonen 56-86, Senna 60-94
Andrew Robinson
On Wed, 8 Jan 1997, =?iso-8859-1?q?Andr=E9_Pr=E9gent?=
<pre...@gsc.nrcan.gc.ca> writes
>>And Jacques just for once: say something to the fan's of you're dead father!
>>
>
>Just read his new book, he speaks (finally) glowingly of his late great
>father...
>
sympathetic towards young Jaques and would not allow any mistakes.
Sounds like some Dad's I know who take their under 15's karting. (You
don't want to be around if the driver hasn't won, even from last with
three wheels!)
--
My REPLY TO: address has been changed to prevent automatic spamming.
For e-mail replies, please use the address below.
AJ Robinson - ajrob...@jjas.demon.co.uk - http://www.jjas.demon.co.uk/
Steven Scala
Steven Scala (yu17...@yorku.ca) wrote:
: leje...@worldaccess.nl wrote:
: :
: : > 3. Gilles was killed on a very hotlap when he ran into the back of a
: : > confused driver (I forget who, but a very famous old driver...),
: :
: : This was the german Jochen Mass, not so famous !!
:
: As the only WC to have won posthumously, not only does he stand out
: season before his crash in the Italian GP to have gathered enough points
: for the championship. That said, I suspect that Jochen Mass may have been
: quite a force in the early eighties if he had lived. Sadly, we will never
: know for sure. The least we could do is remember him, and hope that we
: will never have to see another World Championship won posthumously.
:
: -Steven Scala.
Oof! Jochen Rindt! Jochen Rindt! I've goofed tremendously! I've got a
sour taste in my mouth and I feel as if I've been punched in the gut. Why
am I always messing up these Formula 1 names? Now I know how Johnny Walker
feels.
-Steven Scala.
Thomas Gmuer
Steven Scala <yu17...@yorku.ca> wrote:
> : This was the german Jochen Mass, not so famous !!
>
> As the only WC to have won posthumously, not only does he stand out
> among World Champions, but consider that he must have been having quite a
> season before his crash in the Italian GP to have gathered enough points
> for the championship. That said, I suspect that Jochen Mass may have been
> quite a force in the early eighties if he had lived. Sadly, we will never
> know for sure. The least we could do is remember him, and hope that we
> will never have to see another World Championship won posthumously.
Here Steven, you're definetly wrong! Everything you wrote is true but
you refer to austria's Jochen Rindt who died in 1970 and not Jochen
Mass!!!
Mass is still alive, won the WC only in Sportscar and is today famous as
worst TV-Commentator all over Europe.
Thomas
--
* Still 55 days to Melbourne! *
The motion picture "55 Days at Peking" have been nominated for two
Oscars in 1963.
Tuomo Eloranta
yu17...@yorku.ca (Steven Scala) wrote:
>leje...@worldaccess.nl wrote:
>: This was the german Jochen Mass, not so famous !!
> As the only WC to have won posthumously, not only does he stand out
>among World Champions, but consider that he must have been having quite a
>season before his crash in the Italian GP to have gathered enough points
>for the championship. That said, I suspect that Jochen Mass may have been
>quite a force in the early eighties if he had lived. Sadly, we will never
>know for sure. The least we could do is remember him, and hope that we
>will never have to see another World Championship won posthumously.
Now you are confusing Jochen Mass with Jochen Rindt. Rindt died in
1970 during practise in Monza, and is the only posthumous F1 WC - not
Mass. Mass lived through the 80's and never became anything really
special...
Christian Ehrnrooth
Steven Scala wrote:
>
> leje...@worldaccess.nl wrote:
> :
> : > 3. Gilles was killed on a very hotlap when he ran into the back of a
> : > confused driver (I forget who, but a very famous old driver...),
> :
>
> As the only WC to have won posthumously, not only does he stand out
> among World Champions, but consider that he must have been having quite a
> season before his crash in the Italian GP to have gathered enough points
> for the championship. That said, I suspect that Jochen Mass may have been
> quite a force in the early eighties if he had lived. Sadly, we will never
> know for sure. The least we could do is remember him, and hope that we
> will never have to see another World Championship won posthumously.
>
Steven, Steven! You are confusing Jochen Mass with Jochen Rindt. Rindt was killed at the Italian GP in 1970 -
the same year he became World Champion. Jochen Mass was still racing in the early eighties and AFAIK he is
alive and kickin' as we speak.
X-ian
Finland
Dave Kean
I think you have the wrong person, Jochen Mass was driving for
Mercedes in Sportscars in '88/89/90 (may have won the WSPC one year). The
driver you are thinking off won the championship in ether '71 or '72 (I
think) and his name was Jochen Rindt, and he is F1's only posthumously
Dave Kean.
Herbert Eitel
Christian Ehrnrooth <christian...@lmf.ericsson.se> wrote:
>Steven Scala wrote:
>> As the only WC to have won posthumously, not only does he stand out
>> among World Champions, but consider that he must have been having quite a
>> season before his crash in the Italian GP to have gathered enough points
>> for the championship. That said, I suspect that Jochen Mass may have been
>> quite a force in the early eighties if he had lived. Sadly, we will never
>> know for sure. The least we could do is remember him, and hope that we
>> will never have to see another World Championship won posthumously.
>>
>> -Steven Scala.
>Steven, Steven! You are confusing Jochen Mass with Jochen Rindt. Rindt was killed at the Italian GP in 1970 -
>the same year he became World Champion. Jochen Mass was still racing in the early eighties and AFAIK he is
>alive and kickin' as we speak.
Yes, he lives in Monaco, drives an old Harley with a much older helmet
and is also a co-commentator for RTL-tv during GP's. He is
a very close friend to Michael Schumacher, btw, as he had
great influence on Schumachers career during his Mercedes years.
Mass (or his wife) was a witness at the Schumacher marriage.
Although he was a good driver he is probably more famous , at least in
Britain, for a special competition he had won in the British TV,
he told us during a meeting in Monaco. They had to do a lot
of funny things and he achieved the first price. But this was
many years ago. If any Brit can tell my more of what I'm talking
about, it would be fine.
Herbert
Still a fan of Johnny!:-)
_________________
e...@ict.fhg.de
Ed Day
In article <5be99v$h...@sunburst.ccs.yorku.ca>, yu17...@yorku.ca (Steven Scala) writes:
> Steven Scala (yu17...@yorku.ca) wrote:
> : leje...@worldaccess.nl wrote:
> : :
> : : > 3. Gilles was killed on a very hotlap when he ran into the back of a
> : : > confused driver (I forget who, but a very famous old driver...),
> : :
> : : This was the german Jochen Mass, not so famous !!
> : As the only WC to have won posthumously, not only does he stand out
> : among World Champions, but consider that he must have been having quite a
> : season before his crash in the Italian GP to have gathered enough points
> : for the championship. That said, I suspect that Jochen Mass may have been
> : quite a force in the early eighties if he had lived. Sadly, we will never
> : know for sure. The least we could do is remember him, and hope that we
> : will never have to see another World Championship won posthumously.
> :
> : -Steven Scala.
>
> sour taste in my mouth and I feel as if I've been punched in the gut. Why
> am I always messing up these Formula 1 names? Now I know how Johnny Walker
> feels.
>
> -Steven Scala.
Glad you cleared that up yourself before we all jumped on you.
Mass was never WC, but a fine driver nonetheless. I think he
made his biggest impact driving sports prototypes back when
sports prototypes mattered. -- Memphis Eddie
Tim Everett
Herbert Eitel wrote:
>
> Yes, he lives in Monaco, drives an old Harley with a much older helmet
> and is also a co-commentator for RTL-tv during GP's. He is
> a very close friend to Michael Schumacher, btw, as he had
> great influence on Schumachers career during his Mercedes years.
> Mass (or his wife) was a witness at the Schumacher marriage.
> Although he was a good driver he is probably more famous , at least in
> Britain, for a special competition he had won in the British TV,
> he told us during a meeting in Monaco. They had to do a lot
> of funny things and he achieved the first price. But this was
> many years ago. If any Brit can tell my more of what I'm talking
> about, it would be fine.
>
Could this have been "superstars", sportsmen/women competeing against
each other in a series of sporting events. They had to choose 6 from 10
events (or something like that), things like swimming, running,
shooting, rowing etc. The F1 contenders always seemed to do well. I
remember James Hunt taking part (and getting into an argument in the
weightlifting about how straight his arm could go), and I have a vague
memory of Jochen Maas taking part.
Tim.
George Caracatsanis
In article <5bdofg$k...@morgana.mat.uc.pt>, r...@morgana.mat.uc.pt
says...
>
>Steven Scala (yu17...@yorku.ca) wrote:
>> leje...@worldaccess.nl wrote:
>> : > 3. Gilles was killed on a very hotlap when he ran into the back
of a
>> : > confused driver (I forget who, but a very famous old
driver...),
>
>> : This was the german Jochen Mass, not so famous !!
>
>> As the only WC to have won posthumously, not only does he stand
out
>
died
>in Monza that year. (I hope I have the year right. I can not check
the
>statistics page right now).
>
found himself in the same situation as FW is now towards the Italian
law).
Fitti's win at Watkins Glen resulted in Jochen Rindt postumously
winning the Ch'ship that year, in front of Jacky Ickx.
I hope that J Rindt will remain the only driver winning the Ch'ship
after his death....
George
Matthew Y. Hayashibara
yu17...@yorku.ca (Steven Scala) wrote:
<snip>
> Oof! Jochen Rindt! Jochen Rindt! I've goofed tremendously! I've got a
>sour taste in my mouth and I feel as if I've been punched in the gut. Why
>am I always messing up these Formula 1 names?
Don't feel too darn bad, he (Mass) DID drive the McLaren M23 for a
time... one of the cars still exists and is driven at vintage events
here in the states by Steve Earle, the promoter behind the Monterey
Historics.
Pete Lovely, an American privateer that actually raced a Lotus 49 in
the good ol days, still owns a very nice example, which he has
restored in Gold Leaf colors. It even has those skinny wing supports
that were supposed to have broken... a partial cause of Rindt's fatal
accident.
>Now I know how Johnny Walker feels.
The Red Label, or the Black Label? :-)
MadMat
Roger Virgo
I think
mhayas...@ccgate.hac.com (Matthew Y. Hayashibara) writes:
>Pete Lovely, an American privateer that actually raced a Lotus 49 in
>the good ol days, still owns a very nice example, which he has
>restored in Gold Leaf colors. It even has those skinny wing supports
>that were supposed to have broken... a partial cause of Rindt's fatal
>accident.
Rindt died at the wheel of a Lotus 72, due to a brake shaft failure on the
inboard front brakes.
But...
Rindt and teammate Graham Hill both had lucky escapes in the 1969 Spanish GP at
the beautiful Montjuich Park circuit. Both Lotus 49's were running the high
rear wing when they collapsed at exactly the same point on the circuit within
a few laps of each other. As result of these accidents the high wings were
banned as of the next GP, Monaco, which Hill won with the 'Ducktail' Lotus 49.
Roger and out...
--
Roger Virgo Information Systems Division
Email: r...@BarwonWater.Vic.Gov.Au Barwon Water
Phone: +61 52 262597 61-67 Ryrie St Geelong
Fax: +61 52 218236 Victoria 3220 Australia
kim
Andrew Robinson wrote:
> In Gerald Donaldson's book, it seems that Gilles was not very
> sympathetic towards young Jaques and would not allow any mistakes.
> Sounds like some Dad's I know who take their under 15's karting. (You
> don't want to be around if the driver hasn't won, even from last with
> three wheels!)
One of the newspapers reprinted some excerpts from an interview with
Jacques' mother last year. She mentioned that Gilles was incredibly
hard on Jacques when he was a kid, making him something of a nervous
wreck when his father was around. According to her, Gilles expected
Jacques to be perfect in everything he did and Jacques' subsequent
nervousness when his father was around, just made him screw up more.
Gerard Stutje
In article <19970113222932175364@mendrisio-pppo 00.tinet.ch>, From
tg...@tinet.ch (Thomas Gmuer), the following was written:
> Mass is still alive, won the WC only in Sportscar and is today famous
> as worst TV-Commentator all over Europe.
You haven't experienced the commentators of the spanish Tele5.
They know everything about the history of F1, have all the statistics,
but don't have a clue about racing.
Last season I was lucky enough to see a race covered by the Belgian
(flemish) TV, no commercials and decent comments by the two
commentators, one of which a woman. Nice!!
--
Tot ziens!
ger...@costabrava.net
/\ E-17300 Blanes
\7erard 2:343/201.23
Andrew Robinson
On Sat, 11 Jan 1997, Gary Jarl <gj...@mail.island.net> writes
>It was Mass that Villeneuve collided with. Many, however, blame Pironi due
>to the rivalry between him and Villenueve. Gilles may have been trying too
>hard to beat Pironi's times.
Much as I admire Gilles and his record, a driver should be under
control of himself when he steps into a car. Cockpits have no room for
emotion.
--
My REPLY TO: address has been changed to prevent automatic spamming.
For e-mail replies, please add 'k' to the end of the return address.
AJ Robinson - http://www.jjas.demon.co.uk/
Gulliver
In article <5bdofg$k...@morgana.mat.uc.pt>,
r...@morgana.mat.uc.pt (Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro) wrote:
> Steven Scala (yu17...@yorku.ca) wrote:
> > leje...@worldaccess.nl wrote:
> > : > 3. Gilles was killed on a very hotlap when he ran into the back of a
> > : > confused driver (I forget who, but a very famous old driver...),
>
> > : This was the german Jochen Mass, not so famous !!
>
> > As the only WC to have won posthumously, not only does he stand out
>
> You are confusing him with Jochen Rindt, 1972's world champion, who died
> in Monza that year. (I hope I have the year right. I can not check the
> statistics page right now).
1970. Emerson Fittipaldi won in 1972.
--
Angus Gulliver
an...@spuddy.mew.co.uk
Also at a.w.r.g...@herts.ac.uk
Question every piece of information that enters your mind...
...and it might grow bigger.
333...@blackbox.at
On 16 Jan 1997 12:15:27 GMT, ger...@redestb.es (Gerard Stutje) wrote:
>You haven't experienced the commentators of the spanish Tele5.
>
>They know everything about the history of F1, have all the statistics,
>but don't have a clue about racing.
just as Prueller of austrian ORF, but he in addition is a complete
idiot
Riffraff
Steven Scala <yu17...@yorku.ca> wrote in article > :
> :
> : This was the german Jochen Mass,
>
> As the only WC to have won posthumously, not only does he stand out
> among World Champions,
Well this is simply not true! You are confusing two Jochen's. The one
Gilles hit is indeed Jochen Mass but that was in 1982 and he never won any
world championship. The other is Jochen Rindt who died in 1970 driving at
Lotus. He won the champsionship posthumously that year (1970) and so unless
he was ghost-riding in May 1982, it wasn't him! Too many Jochens , and not
enough world champsionships eh?
CAS
Jan Golz
On 16 Jan 1997 12:15:27 GMT, ger...@redestb.es (Gerard Stutje) wrote:
>You haven't experienced the commentators of the spanish Tele5.
>
>They know everything about the history of F1, have all the statistics,
>but don't have a clue about racing.
At least they know about they history of F1. If Mass really does know
something about the history of F1 (I doubt that) he hides that very
well. The only knowledge he has is about Schuey, what his dog had for
breakfast, what Corinna weared yesterday and many other things nobody
wants to hear.
Together with his co-commentator Heiko wasser he is also very good at
guessing the cars on screen. "... Here we have Rosset in the
Tyrell...", "...No Jochen, it愀 Diniz in the Jordan..."
And they are very good in ignoring track action. The whole screen can
be covered with dust and smoke, but they won愒 say anything, until one
or two laps later. Then they will begin to shout that something must
have happened out there.
Let愀 say a big thank you to Bernie for taking the only alternative
from us, by not renewing the Eurosport contract. Perhaps he gets
beaten up by an angry mass of F1 fans, who had to listen to RTL for
more than 10 minutes.
Jan
"Wait for me, I won愒 be long", Gilles Villeneuve
Michael Gruenling
333...@blackbox.at wrote:
>
> On 16 Jan 1997 12:15:27 GMT, ger...@redestb.es (Gerard Stutje) wrote:
>
> >You haven't experienced the commentators of the spanish Tele5.
> >
> >They know everything about the history of F1, have all the statistics,
> >but don't have a clue about racing.
>
> idiot
Just go and find someone, who has that much knowledge about this sport!
Mikie
Mario
>> just as Prueller of austrian ORF, but he in addition is a complete
>> idiot
>
>Just go and find someone, who has that much knowledge about this sport!
>
>Mikie
that's what i said: he HAS tremendous knowledge of the history of f1
(at least his notebook has) plus of a lot of things that just aren't
interesting, stuff like the progress Barrichellos brother makes in his
studies of law.
But as Gerard Stutje already pointed out in this thread: that's simply
not what makes one a good commentator. It literally made my girlfriend
shed tears when i told her that we've lost our english eurosport team
and instead have to listen to prueller or mass. (was very cute:o)
BTW: why don't rtl and orf broadcast the races in stereo so that one
could choose between commentary and only track sound?
Mario
pgp public key on request
linux: the choice of a GNU generation
(k...@cis.ufl.edu)
Jacquie
yu17...@yorku.ca (Steven Scala) wrote:
> As the only WC to have won posthumously, not only does he stand out
>season before his crash in the Italian GP to have gathered enough points
>for the championship. That said, I suspect that Jochen Mass may have been
>quite a force in the early eighties if he had lived. Sadly, we will never
>know for sure. The least we could do is remember him, and hope that we
>will never have to see another World Championship won posthumously.
>
> -Steven Scala.
Er...... I think you're thinking of Jochen Rindt. He was the only
posthumous F1 world champion and he was Austrian.
con affetto
Jacquie
j.a....@open.ac.uk & Jacqui...@msn.com
Thomas Gmuer
<333...@blackbox.at> wrote:
> >You haven't experienced the commentators of the spanish Tele5.
> >
> >They know everything about the history of F1, have all the statistics,
> >but don't have a clue about racing.
>
> just as Prueller of austrian ORF, but he in addition is a complete
> idiot
Stop! Heinz Prueller is one of the most respected commentators in the
whole business! He's commentating and writing about F1 for more than 30
years and his books are among the best selling motorsport books in
german. Thousands of non-Austrians in Southern Germany, Switzerland and
Südtirol (Italy) are switching to the ORF because of him. He's sometimes
a little nationalistic, but all the others are too. If you don't like
him says so, but an idiot?
Thomas
--
* Still 48 days to Melbourne! *
On a 48 days trip to Okinawa the U.S.S. Waters fought off six Kamikaze
attacks in World War II.
Matthew Y. Hayashibara
r...@barwonwater.vic.gov.au (Roger Virgo) wrote:
>I think
>mhayas...@ccgate.hac.com (Matthew Y. Hayashibara) writes:
>>Pete Lovely, an American privateer that actually raced a Lotus 49 in
>>the good ol days, still owns a very nice example, which he has
>>restored in Gold Leaf colors. It even has those skinny wing supports
>>that were supposed to have broken... a partial cause of Rindt's fatal
>>accident.
>Rindt died at the wheel of a Lotus 72, due to a brake shaft failure on the
>inboard front brakes.
Thanks for the correction... I rely on my failing memory a bit too
much sometimes...
MadMat
Mario
On Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:14:53 +0100, tg...@tinet.ch (Thomas Gmuer)
wrote:
>Thousands of non-Austrians in Southern Germany, Switzerland and
>Südtirol (Italy) are switching to the ORF because of him.
I will also switch to him because mass/wasser are muchmuch worse.
> He's sometimes
>a little nationalistic,
sometimes, a little ;o)
>If you don't like
>him says so, but an idiot?
what would you call it if he tries to tell me in every race that he
has secret information from the ferrari pits about their pitstop
strategy and then proceeds to reveal it??? i mean, that's complete
nonsense, and if he ever had such information and revealed it around
lap 5, who would tell him anything further on?
i don't want to repeat all the nonsense he tells, because he, instead
of watching the race, searches his notebook database to find anouther
once interesting story that unfortunately fails to attract my
attention after being already told 10 times.
strange, but the only f1-fans that like him seem to write in this ng.
never got to know one before.
fe...@lutz.com
are you suggesting that F1 has no place for the Behra's?
Michael Gruenling
Mario wrote:
>
> On Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:14:53 +0100, tg...@tinet.ch (Thomas Gmuer)
> wrote:
>
> >Thousands of non-Austrians in Southern Germany, Switzerland and
> >Südtirol (Italy) are switching to the ORF because of him.
>
> I will also switch to him because mass/wasser are muchmuch worse.
>
> > He's sometimes
> >a little nationalistic,
>
> sometimes, a little ;o)
>
> >If you don't like
> >him says so, but an idiot?
>
> what would you call it if he tries to tell me in every race that he
> has secret information from the ferrari pits about their pitstop
> strategy and then proceeds to reveal it??? i mean, that's complete
> nonsense, and if he ever had such information and revealed it around
> lap 5, who would tell him anything further on?
I can only recall one time, he had such information. That were the
times, when Berger drove a Ferrari. But that is not so bad like, these
stupid Germans like Mass-Wasser, and most stupid of all - Kai Ebel, with
his stupid overall in the pits.
Mikie
Greg Brokenshire
In article <lZiKloA8...@jjas.demon.co.uk>,
Andrew Robinson <ajrob...@jjas.demon.co.u> wrote:
>On Sat, 11 Jan 1997, Gary Jarl <gj...@mail.island.net> writes
>>It was Mass that Villeneuve collided with. Many, however, blame Pironi due
>>to the rivalry between him and Villenueve. Gilles may have been trying too
>>hard to beat Pironi's times.
>
> Much as I admire Gilles and his record, a driver should be under
>control of himself when he steps into a car. Cockpits have no room for
>emotion.
Why hasn't anyone blamed the qualifying situation?
Gilles was on one of his few available "hot" laps. Apparently when confronted
by Mass' car he did not lift off. Now, perhaps this was due to the team
situation with Pironi and Gilles desire to show Ferrari who was No.1, but
perhaps it was also due to the fact that if he had slowed it woould have
ruined that lap, therefore ruined his session and perhaps hurt his grid
position.
Only Gilles would know...
Greg
Dave Kean
On Fri, 24 Jan 1997, Greg Brokenshire wrote:
> In article <lZiKloA8...@jjas.demon.co.uk>,
> Andrew Robinson <ajrob...@jjas.demon.co.u> wrote:
> >On Sat, 11 Jan 1997, Gary Jarl <gj...@mail.island.net> writes
> >>It was Mass that Villeneuve collided with. Many, however, blame Pironi due
> >>to the rivalry between him and Villenueve. Gilles may have been trying too
> >>hard to beat Pironi's times.
> >
> > Much as I admire Gilles and his record, a driver should be under
> >control of himself when he steps into a car. Cockpits have no room for
> >emotion.
>
> Why hasn't anyone blamed the qualifying situation?
> Gilles was on one of his few available "hot" laps. Apparently when confronted
> by Mass' car he did not lift off.
If I recall corectly GV was already on pole in the previous dryer
session and was around 5 or 6 second s quicker in this session than the
next person. It was really wet, and Mass's car moved over into GV's way,
and the spray from another car hid Mass's car.
Qualifying tyres were not involved, I dont think there has ever
been such a think as a qualifying wet. This was the first race after
Pironi (who died in a power boat accident in '86 (?) off Poole, England)
had "taken" GV's win against team orders at the previous race (Imola?).
Emotions were riding high, but as a reasion for the accident? Personly
not convinced, Drivers like all professional sportsmen have to leave their
emotions in the motorhome, and in my experiance do.
Mario
On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 20:48:20 +0100, Frank Muenker <fr...@identity.de>
wrote:
>When Schumacher lost this big
>piece of his transmission after the pit stop they shouted "Oh, what was
>that ? I hope it wasn't anything important !"
Bruhaaa ROTFL!!!! :o)=)
In one of Bergers Benetton or early Ferrari years:
Berger, after a not so good position on the grid, had managed to be
2nd, so prueller was already extremely upset, repeating Berger's name
and position at high frequency. Unfortunately, berger soon fell back
again to third place. After several seconds reaction time Prueller
cried out: *Berger is now the fastest 3rd on track". Soon Berger was
on 4th place.
Prueller: *AND GERHARD BERGER IS NOW 3RD AND 4TH"
leje...@worldaccess.nl
On 24-01-97 18:58, in message <32e8f826...@nnrp.digex.net>, fe...@lutz.com
wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:13:48 +0000, Andrew Robinson
> <ajrob...@jjas.demon.co.u> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 11 Jan 1997, Gary Jarl <gj...@mail.island.net> writes
> >>It was Mass that Villeneuve collided with. Many, however, blame Pironi due
> >>to the rivalry between him and Villenueve. Gilles may have been trying too
> >>hard to beat Pironi's times.
> >
> > Much as I admire Gilles and his record, a driver should be under
> >control of himself when he steps into a car. Cockpits have no room for
> >emotion.
> >--
> > My REPLY TO: what a fine reply, if you admire Gilles and understand Gilles
> you would nver such a crap. Emotion, it was just an judgement error, could
> have happenend to everybody, maybe Beacuase of Gilles drivin skills he was
> the one to take the risk first, but not let try and see whats happening.
But you will the expert, read books about him, look at video recordings and
then say something. Greetings Armand.
Doug Finch
Frank Muenker <fr...@identity.de> wrote:
>The best joke ever was at Montreal '96. When Schumacher lost this big
>piece of his transmission after the pit stop they shouted "Oh, what was
>that ? I hope it wasn't anything important !"
Heh... My vote for worst/most incompetent TV commentator for Montreal
'96 goes to Mr. "I'm buddies with Jackie Stewart and Bobby Unser"
Brian Williams of the CBC. I'll never forget (mostly because I have
it on tape) his "annoyance" with F1 and the FIA for not allowing him
into the press room to interview Jacques. What wasn't mentioned
(although JYS did try) was that there was a narrow time frame in which
these interviews take place and Brian and the rest of the CBC crew
screwed the pooch and missed it.
----------------------------------------------
There are only 2 types of people in the world:
Those who are about to do something bad to
their hard drive and those who just did.
----------------------------------------------
Michael Day
No, emotion is NEVER part of the equation in F1. Just disregard Alesi
crying over his first win in Canada, fans surging onto the track at the
British GP in '94, Prost leaving Ferrari in total disgust, horror of seeing
Patrese flipping over Berger's car in Germany, Senna's death, etc etc
etc........
Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro
Dave Kean (d...@coventry.ac.uk) wrote:
someone wrote:
> > >>It was Mass that Villeneuve collided with. Many, however, blame Pironi...
> next person. It was really wet, and Mass's car moved over into GV's way,
> and the spray from another car hid Mass's car.
As it was already said in the first incarnation of this thread, the
accident envolving rain and spray was the one which happened to Pironi
some months later. Pironi crashed into Prost.
Won't this thread ever die ?
Mario
> But that is not so bad like, these
>stupid Germans like Mass-Wasser, and most stupid of all - Kai Ebel, with
>his stupid overall in the pits.
totally agreed :o)
have you seen the harald-schmidt-jokes on kai ebel? :o)=)
Roland Wippel
Dave Kean wrote:
>
> If I recall corectly GV was already on pole in the previous dryer
> session and was around 5 or 6 second s quicker in this session than the
> and the spray from another car hid Mass's car.
>
it was dry with no spray hiding the cars.
--
--------------------------------------------------
Roland Wippel
wip...@nortel.ca
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
--------------------------------------------------
eliot
In article <32EBB1...@bnr.ca>, Roland Wippel <wip...@bnr.ca> wrote:
>Dave Kean wrote:
>Pironi was on the pole, Gilles was on a hot lap on qualifying tires and
>it was dry with no spray hiding the cars.
indeed this thread would not die... :)
you are right except for the fact that it was not on his hot lap that
GV had his accident. it was his cool down lap and his Q tires were
finished but gilles being gilles was still charging. very tragic.
who wants to start over and say it was raining? :) :) :)
eliot
Michael Gruenling
Mario wrote:
>
> On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:12:03 +0100, Michael Gruenling
> <gr...@gruenling.vienna.at> wrote:
>
> > But that is not so bad like, these
> >stupid Germans like Mass-Wasser, and most stupid of all - Kai Ebel, with
> >his stupid overall in the pits.
>
> totally agreed :o)
> have you seen the harald-schmidt-jokes on kai ebel? :o)=)
No. Please tell me what Harald Schmidt did !!!
Andrew Robinson
My vote for the worst TV commentator goes to a French guy who I don't
know, but made some smug comment that when Damon Hill was talking us
round a lap of the circuit from within the car, whilst driving, that he
didn't do it in French.
Jeez, it's hard enough to drive and talk in ANY language.
Barry Posner
Doug Finch (dfi...@compusmart.ab.ca) wrote:
:
: Heh... My vote for worst/most incompetent TV commentator for Montreal
: '96 goes to Mr. "I'm buddies with Jackie Stewart and Bobby Unser"
: Brian Williams of the CBC.
standard line: "introducing my good friend jackie stewart", like, jackie
stewart probably sees brian williams 2 whole days per year.
other brian williams flaws: has a shit conniption every time cars close
up coming into the corners (hint to brian: the cars in front have to brake
first because they get to the corners first. of course, the also get to
accelerate first...)
a lead will be cut from say, 7.36 to 7.13 seconds in a lap, and we all
hear "DRIVER X IS CLOSING IN ON THE LEAD!!!!"
frequently gets times wrong: "DRIVER Y IS 5 HUNDRETHS OF A SECOND
BEHIND...", huh, that's 5 *TENTHS*, brian.
there's definitely much more, but i can't bear to drag out the tapes.
needless to say, brian williams is utterly clueless when it comes to motor
racing, and this year we probably won't have the consolation of having
jackie stewart as co-commentator. too bad for us, i just hope TSN stays
with murray...
regards, bp, also in edmonton
Thomas Gmuer
Mario <333...@blackbox.at> wrote:
> In one of Bergers Benetton or early Ferrari years:
> Berger, after a not so good position on the grid, had managed to be
> 2nd, so prueller was already extremely upset, repeating Berger's name
> and position at high frequency. Unfortunately, berger soon fell back
> again to third place. After several seconds reaction time Prueller
> cried out: *Berger is now the fastest 3rd on track". Soon Berger was
> on 4th place.
> Prueller: *AND GERHARD BERGER IS NOW 3RD AND 4TH"
Ok, ok! Prueller has his problems too, most often when he gets to
enthusiatic wich happens only when austrians are in front. I agree he is
*very* nationalistic! I remember when Lauda won a race, the late Jo
Gartner finished 4th or 5th and the young Berger (was it in a ATS?)
finished 6th. Three austrians with WC-points! I'm sure he needed a week
to calm down. I also cannot hear the same old Rindt storys at every race
or his way to declare Arrows and Sauber to austrian teams only because
they have austrian investors, or to make Senna a semi-austrian because
he spent some holidays there. But who else could be better? Certainly
none of the ORF-Soccer commentators or the Skiing dummies. Those from
the austrian SAT.1-Crew (that's a tough joke:-)) ?
Thomas
--
* Still 39 days to Melbourne! *
To join the Wyoming Air National Guard you have to work 39 days a year
for them.
Mario
On Wed, 29 Jan 1997 18:21:55 +0100, tg...@tinet.ch (Thomas Gmuer)
wrote:
>Ok, ok! Prueller has his problems too,
>
>
> But who else could be better? Certainly
>none of the ORF-Soccer commentators or the Skiing dummies. Those from
>the austrian SAT.1-Crew (that's a tough joke:-)) ?
ok, agreed ;o)
SAT1 Bruhaaa
what shall i say...EUROSPORT :o(
Mario
>> totally agreed :o)
>> have you seen the harald-schmidt-jokes on kai ebel? :o)=)
>
>No. Please tell me what Harald Schmidt did !!!
HS:"Kennen sie schon diese Aufziehpuppe, von, wie heisst das doch
gleich....................RTL!!!" Dann isser ein paarmal die Bühne
abgegangen als aufziehpuppe und hat imaginären gesprächspartnern das
mikro unter die nase gesteckt. Und dann immer wieder mal unvermittelt
in einigen sendungen die Puppennummer, wie er das halt so macht.
Schwer zu beschreiben das ganze :o) war jedenfalls cool
und dann war noch was anderes, das hab ich aber vergessen
thefl...@live.com
Salut Gilles et Salut Didier!
Alan Baker
Mark Jackson
since 1997.
Thank you, Google Groups.
--
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
I have yet to meet a successful scientist who lacks the ability
to exaggerate the importance of what he or she is doing.
- Daniel Kahneman
Dan the Man
News
lekota...@gmail.com
~misfit~
web-to-usenet portal)
--
Shaun.
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
This is not an email and hasn't been checked for vruses by any half-arsed
software.
aleks...@gmail.com
mr_go...@yahoo.co.uk
Sky Sports F1 sometimes re-runs highlights of both the 1982 San Marino GP and Belgian GP - so if unfamiliar one can at least see those (watching the Zolder race reveals the conventional racing line through the corner where Gilles died).
The argument about team-orders is as old as the sport itself (and there is suspicion that such rows are often stoked for publicity).
Imola 1982
(The Imola race was boycotted by many teams - part of the FOCA/FISA War - and only 14 cars started).
AFAIK all the leading drivers decided not to make any risky overtakes until the second half of the race - so as not to deplete the field further for the spectators. Exactly what Pironi and Gilles agreed at Ferrari has been the subject of all sorts of versions - but it seems they both agreed over that at least.
(Commentators Murray and James didn't say anything out of the ordinary on the commentary when Pironi passed Gilles late on - so whatever was decided wasn't known beforehand by them - so presumably not by other media up front either).
Zolder
AFAIK Ferrari had switched to turbo engines by this time but March (Jochen Mass etc) had not - making closing speeds a big issue that season.
(I've got the Sky Sports F1 qualifying replay up now)
It is clear that both cars are on racing laps, but Villes catches Mass very quickly into the corner - Mass clips the apex as you'd expect and so the faster Gilles tries to go around the outside instead and indeed starts to.
(A crux argument has always been that it was only qualifying and with time remaining - so should Gilles have backed off instead when blocked by Mass who was also on a racing lap? Could he set a faster lap than he'd already set anyway when compromised through a corner like that?)
Coming out of the corner, crucially Mass moves across (all version agree that he was trying to get out of way of Gilles - having only realised he was there at that point - whilst trying not to compromise his own racing lap too much).
But of course Gilles is now on the outside near the back of the March car of Mass, and so Mass moving across in an attempt to be helpful merely results in them touching wheels and the Ferrari is launched into the air ….…..
So pick the bones out of all that - I'm just surprised that such collisions don't happen more often in qualifying.