What's most important for F1 success - car and team, or driver?

[Philip]

What is the most important factor to securing success in Formula 1? An
eight-season study has offered up an answer.

According to experts, a "long-held belief" that the car and the team
contribute to 80% of race success with the skill of the driver making up
the other 20% - sometimes called the 80-20 rule - is not accurate.

It's actually the interaction between the driver and the team, they said.

Lead author Duane Rockerbie, from the University of Lethbridge in Canada,
said the findings are "particularly validating for drivers".

The professor added: "The car and team's input has been greatly
overestimated.

"Rather than 80%, it is closer to 20%. The driver's input accounts for
roughly 15%.

"The biggest factor is more nuanced and it's the interaction between the
driver and the team, which accounts for 30-40%.



https://news.sky.com/story/whats-most-important-for-f1-success-car-and-
team-or-driver-eight-season-study-gives-an-answer-12646848

[Dan the Man]

That has been the subject of much discussion here, already. I tend to believe the car is the biggest factor; the Jenson Button - Brawn GP championship is my biggest argument for that. But most years, you need the complete package: quick car, top-notch driver, well-drilled crew.

Dan

[Martin Harran]

Nah, Alan knows better.

[texas gate]

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 9:57:47 AM UTC-6, martin...@gmail.com wrote:

> Nah, Alan knows better.

hey harry martin.
thanks for logging in and trolling.
you fucking useless twat.

[Alan]

Than you? Obviously.

[Alan]

I know what they're saying and why.

But the simple facts remain:

The best driver in the field in the worst car has 0% chance of winning.

The worst driver in the field in the best car has at least a very decent
shot at winning.

[texas gate]

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 1:30:40 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> Than you? Obviously.

you numb trolling brain dead piece of shit loser

[texas gate]

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 1:38:35 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> I know what they're saying and why.

you know fuck all
proven over and over
fuck off stupid

[texas gate]

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 1:38:35 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> But the simple facts remain:

speaking of simple

[texas gate]

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 1:30:40 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> Than you? Obviously.

it aint obvious.
you numb cunt

[texas gate]

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 1:38:35 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> I know what they're saying and why.
>
> But the simple facts remain:
>
> The best driver in the field in the worst car has 0% chance of winning.
>
> The worst driver in the field in the best car has at least a very decent
> shot at winning.

this from the biggest loser on the planet

[XYXPDQ]

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:26:28 AM UTC-7, Philip wrote:
> What is the most important factor to securing success in Formula 1? An
> eight-season study has offered up an answer.

Money.

[Bigbird]

You didn't understand the question... but then neither did Toyota.

--
Bozo Bin
Alan Baker
Texasgate

[texas gate]

On Thursday, July 7, 2022 at 3:48:13 PM UTC-6, Bigbird wrote:

> You didn't understand the question... but then neither did Toyota.

fuck you
you miserable fucking cunt

[Martin Harran]

Nobody disputes that the car is a factor nor does the study reported
above; where you differ from others is your insistence that the car is
far and away the *biggest* factor and your obsession that whilst
Hamilton is a 'good' driver, he really isn't all that exceptional,
just fortunate to have had a great car.

[Alan]

I have never made any such insistence about Hamilton. Stop repeating
that falsehood. I have said repeatedly that he is one of the very best
drivers out there currently.

But the car is a far, far bigger factor than the driver.

Russell got into Hamilton's car and despite not really being able to fit
properly, he would have won in it on his first try were it not for a
mechanical problem.

If Hamilton for some reason got into the Williams that year, he might
have been able to push it up a place or two, but he might not even have
been able to do that.

And you know it.

[texas gate]

On Friday, July 8, 2022 at 10:09:12 AM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> And you know it.

kill yourself

[XYXPDQ]

Even with the new spending cap it's still about the money (which some teams reportedly don't even have). Look what at the difference in what the teams are paying drivers.

[texas gate]

On Friday, July 8, 2022 at 10:09:12 AM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> And you know it.

You are a fucking idiot,
and now a psychic too?
Or just a psycho?
You sick fuck.

[Bigbird]

XYXPDQ wrote:

> On Thursday, July 7, 2022 at 2:48:13 PM UTC-7, Bigbird wrote:
> > XYXPDQ wrote:
> >
> > > On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:26:28 AM UTC-7, Philip wrote:
> > > > What is the most important factor to securing success in
> > > > Formula 1? An eight-season study has offered up an answer.
> > >
> > >
> > > Money.
> > You didn't understand the question... but then neither did Toyota.
> >
>

> Even with the new spending cap it's still about the money (which some
> teams reportedly don't even have). Look what at the difference in
> what the teams are paying drivers.

<sigh>

You can lead a horse...

[texas gate]

On Friday, July 8, 2022 at 12:54:06 PM UTC-6, Bigbird wrote:

> <sigh>
>
> You can lead a horse...

fuck off
you miserable cock sucker

[texas gate]

On Friday, July 8, 2022 at 12:54:06 PM UTC-6, Bigbird wrote:

> You can lead a horse...

cant finish a sentence?
you numb useless cunt

[texas gate]

On Friday, July 8, 2022 at 12:54:06 PM UTC-6, Bigbird wrote:

> You can lead a horse...

right to your mothers vagina

[a425couple]

Alan's statement that the car is a far,far bigger
factor than the driver, would seem to be supported
by this years current standings.

How could Max Verstappen and Sergio Perez be
first and second, other than them being in
the best car, Red Bull.

How could Charles Leclerc and Carlos Sainz be
3rd and 4th, other than them being in the second
best car, Ferrari.

How could George Russell and Lewis Hamilton
be 5th and 6th, other than them being in
the third best car, Mercedes.

Year after year, the grids quite often have
the team mates side by side.

[texas gate]

On Friday, July 8, 2022 at 9:06:36 PM UTC-6, a425couple wrote:

> Alan's statement

fuck alan
he is a piece of shit troll here
wake the fuck up
like i said before
you are desperate for friends
the guy is a deluxe cunt

[Bigbird]

a425couple wrote:

> Alan's statement that the car is a far,far bigger
> factor than the driver, would seem to be supported
> by this years current standings.
>

I think a case could be made that Max would still be leading in a
Ferrari.

[a425couple]

On 7/9/2022 4:17 AM, Bigbird wrote:
> a425couple wrote:
>
>> Alan's statement that the car is a far,far bigger
>> factor than the driver, would seem to be supported
>> by this years current standings.
>>
>
> I think a case could be made that Max would still be leading in a
> Ferrari.
>

I agree.
A case could be made for that.
Both Red Bull and Ferrari are very good cars
this year and oftentimes close in performance.

But more to the point, of which is more important,
car or driver, Max would not be leading
in a Mercedes, McLaren, Alpine, Alfa, Alpha Tauri,
Hass, Aston Martin, nor Williams.


In considering the 'Car or driver question',
I think it is worth considering Bottas.
In 5 years he was with Williams, which was
a pretty decent car those years. He had no wins.
Then he was with Mercedes for 5 years.
He won 10 races, and was the WDC runner-up twice,
and in 3rd place twice. Is it conceivable that
he could have finished that high in anything
other than the car that won the Constructors Championship
for the first 4 of those years?

Now in 2022, after Mercedes dropped Bottas,
(he is still a quite fine driver) he is scrapping
for points for places 5th through 10th
in the 6th place car.

My opinion is there are about 12 top notch drivers,
and the difference between them on each of their
best days is very small.

But meanwhile, the difference between the constructors,
say from best to mid-field, is fairly large.

[Bigbird]

a425couple wrote:

> On 7/9/2022 4:17 AM, Bigbird wrote:
> > a425couple wrote:
> >
> > > Alan's statement that the car is a far,far bigger
> > > factor than the driver, would seem to be supported
> > > by this years current standings.
> > >
> >
> > I think a case could be made that Max would still be leading in a
> > Ferrari.
> >
>
> I agree.
> A case could be made for that.
> Both Red Bull and Ferrari are very good cars
> this year and oftentimes close in performance.
>
> But more to the point, of which is more important,
> car or driver,

I don't think that us an argument which any serious F1 would be having.

[texas gate]

On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 9:10:28 AM UTC-6, Bigbird wrote:

> I don't think that us an argument which any serious F1 would be having.

you drunk?

[Alan]

On 2022-07-09 04:17, Bigbird wrote:
> a425couple wrote:
>
>> Alan's statement that the car is a far,far bigger
>> factor than the driver, would seem to be supported
>> by this years current standings.
>>
>
> I think a case could be made that Max would still be leading in a
> Ferrari.

Which would only be possible, because the Ferrari is pretty close to as
good a car as the Red Bull.

[texas gate]

On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 1:38:47 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> Which would only be possible, because the Ferrari is pretty close to as
> good a car as the Red Bull.

fuck you

[Edmund]

On 7/6/22 15:26, Philip wrote:
> What is the most important factor to securing success in Formula 1? An
> eight-season study has offered up an answer.
>
> According to experts,

experts sure :-)





--
“The further a society drift from the truth,
the more it will hate those who speak it”

George Orwell

[Martin Harran]

On Fri, 8 Jul 2022 20:06:35 -0700, a425couple <a425c...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Points scored over a full season are a pretty good indicator of the
difference between teammates. The last 3 years:

2021
Verstappen: 395 Perez: 190
Hamilton: 387.5 Bottas: 226

2020
Hamilton: 357 Bottas: 223
Verstappen: 214 Perez: 125

2019
Hamilton: 413 Bottas: 326
Verstappen: 278 Gasley+Albon: 187

So yes, having the best car is more or less a prerequisite for winning
but having the best driver is even more so a prerequisite which is why
the very best drivers always outstrip their not-so-very-best
teammates.

[build]

On Friday, July 8, 2022 at 5:10:48 PM UTC+10, martin... wrote:


> Nobody disputes that the car is a factor nor does the study reported
> above; where you differ from others is your insistence that the car is
> far and away the *biggest* factor and your obsession that whilst
> Hamilton is a 'good' driver, he really isn't all that exceptional,
> just fortunate to have had a great car.

Martin,

Maybe I missed Alan saying that "he really isn't all that exceptional", but I have certainly read him saying that "Lewis is exceptional". It seems you missed or ignored those comments.

build

[Andrew Karlsson]

People say that the best car is more important than the driver, but the driver is also very important. I mean driver like Latifi or Albon would not win title in the best car if they were given the top car. Hamilton and Verstappen are worthy champions who have deserved to be in the top teams.

[geoff]

He just drops that every so often in order to deflect from the other 90%
that are subtle (or not so subtle) swipes.

geoff

[texas gate]

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 4:53:46 PM UTC-6, geoff wrote:

> that are subtle (or not so subtle)

sitting on the fence as usual.
a trait of spineless NZ useless idiots.

[Alan]

You're a liar.

Quote one single time I've ever supposedly dropped that in.

You're a liar, Geoff. A no balls, pissant liar.

[~misfit~]

I think you underestimate Albon. IMO his results at RBR weren't a true indication if his ability,
he was given too much too soon (and a car that was designed for a driver with a different style to
him).
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

[Alan]

I don't know about Latifi...

..but how are you so sure that Albon couldn't win a title in a top car?

[texas gate]

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 6:29:00 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> You're a liar

and you a trolling dumb cunt

[texas gate]

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 8:28:08 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> I don't know

What is fucking new?

[geoff]

Instead of the Pool 'guesses' on F1 races, maybe we should do a
verifiable 'pool' on the number of time MasturBaker has inferred HAM is
one if the best, and the number of times he has inferred just another
good driver. Or ideas to that effect.

geoff

[Alan]

So you've immediately backed of your claim, liar...

...and misused "infer" when you meant "imply".

[Alan]

On 2022-07-07 09:33, XYXPDQ wrote:

> On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 6:26:28 AM UTC-7, Philip wrote:
>> What is the most important factor to securing success in Formula 1? An
>> eight-season study has offered up an answer.
>
>

> Money.

+1

Wait...

+...1,000,000.

:-)

[texas gate]

On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 2:37:12 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> +1
>
> Wait...
>
> +...1,000,000.

moron

[Martin Harran]

On Fri, 8 Jul 2022 09:09:09 -0700, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:

>On 2022-07-08 00:10, Martin Harran wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 12:38:33 -0700, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>>

>>> On 2022-07-06 06:26, Philip wrote:
>>>> What is the most important factor to securing success in Formula 1? An
>>>> eight-season study has offered up an answer.
>>>>

>>>> According to experts, a "long-held belief" that the car and the team
>>>> contribute to 80% of race success with the skill of the driver making up
>>>> the other 20% - sometimes called the 80-20 rule - is not accurate.
>>>>
>>>> It's actually the interaction between the driver and the team, they said.
>>>>
>>>> Lead author Duane Rockerbie, from the University of Lethbridge in Canada,
>>>> said the findings are "particularly validating for drivers".
>>>>
>>>> The professor added: "The car and team's input has been greatly
>>>> overestimated.
>>>>
>>>> "Rather than 80%, it is closer to 20%. The driver's input accounts for
>>>> roughly 15%.
>>>>
>>>> "The biggest factor is more nuanced and it's the interaction between the
>>>> driver and the team, which accounts for 30-40%.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://news.sky.com/story/whats-most-important-for-f1-success-car-and-
>>>> team-or-driver-eight-season-study-gives-an-answer-12646848
>>>
>>> I know what they're saying and why.
>>>
>>> But the simple facts remain:
>>>
>>> The best driver in the field in the worst car has 0% chance of winning.
>>>
>>> The worst driver in the field in the best car has at least a very decent
>>> shot at winning.
>>

>> Nobody disputes that the car is a factor nor does the study reported
>> above; where you differ from others is your insistence that the car is
>> far and away the *biggest* factor and your obsession that whilst
>> Hamilton is a 'good' driver, he really isn't all that exceptional,
>> just fortunate to have had a great car.
>

>I have never made any such insistence about Hamilton. Stop repeating
>that falsehood. I have said repeatedly that he is one of the very best
>drivers out there currently.

Funny how so many posters here see you with an intense bias against
Hamilton yet you insist they are wrong Maybe Willie really is the only
one in step or maybe you might want to rethink the stuff you post
about him.

[Martin Harran]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 12:38:33 -0700, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:

>On 2022-07-06 06:26, Philip wrote:
>> What is the most important factor to securing success in Formula 1? An
>> eight-season study has offered up an answer.
>>
>> According to experts, a "long-held belief" that the car and the team
>> contribute to 80% of race success with the skill of the driver making up
>> the other 20% - sometimes called the 80-20 rule - is not accurate.
>>
>> It's actually the interaction between the driver and the team, they said.
>>
>> Lead author Duane Rockerbie, from the University of Lethbridge in Canada,
>> said the findings are "particularly validating for drivers".
>>
>> The professor added: "The car and team's input has been greatly
>> overestimated.
>>
>> "Rather than 80%, it is closer to 20%. The driver's input accounts for
>> roughly 15%.
>>
>> "The biggest factor is more nuanced and it's the interaction between the
>> driver and the team, which accounts for 30-40%.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://news.sky.com/story/whats-most-important-for-f1-success-car-and-
>> team-or-driver-eight-season-study-gives-an-answer-12646848
>
>I know what they're saying and why.
>
>But the simple facts remain:
>
>The best driver in the field in the worst car has 0% chance of winning.
>
>The worst driver in the field in the best car has at least a very decent
>shot at winning.

What you seem to miss entirely is the driver's contribution to
achieving the best car. Schumacher was particularly superb at that
with Ferrari where he spent countless hours working hands-on with
engineers and designers. I'm not sure that Hamilton is quite in that
league but he is widely recognised as playing a key role in the
development of the car since he joined Mercedes. All that ties in with
what the study above showed.

[Alan]

Funnier still that none of them can produce a single quote that supports
their belief.

But please: post the absolute worst thing you can find me saying about
Hamilton.

[texas gate]

On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 11:24:31 AM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> But please: post the absolute worst thing you can find me saying about
> Hamilton.

fuck off you fucking cunt

[News]

Hamliton is a frequent second-guesser over the radio. Does that count?

[Alan]

Was it hard become that tedious?

[texas gate]

On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 1:57:58 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> Was it hard become that tedious?

fuck off you trolling, piece of shit,
cunt face, cock sucker

[texas gate]

On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 1:57:58 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> Was it hard become that tedious?

What's it to you?
You creepy fuck.

[Martin Harran]

Whilst Hamilton, like any human being, will get annoyed at an
obviously stupid decision, it seems to me that most times he is
"second guessing" decisions, he is trying to understand what went
wrong so they can avoid it in future. But maybe it just seems that way
to me because I'm not a Hamilton-hater.

[Martin Harran]

OK, everyone is out of step except Willie.

>
>But please: post the absolute worst thing you can find me saying about
>Hamilton.

"Damning with faint praise" is clearly another concept that is beyond
your comprehension.

[Alan]

Sometimes, yes.

But it doesn't actually apply to not being able to provide the quotes.

>
>>
>> But please: post the absolute worst thing you can find me saying about
>> Hamilton.
>
>
> "Damning with faint praise" is clearly another concept that is beyond
> your comprehension.

I don't damn him with faint praise, so that won't wash either.

The fact of the matter is that all I take issue with is declaring him
the GOAT simply based on his race record when he was clearly in what was
an utterly dominant car.

That's it. It is on that issue that some have declared they understand
my opinion about Hamilton.

[texas gate]

On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 8:53:10 AM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> That's it. It is on that issue that some have declared they understand
> my opinion about Hamilton.

yawn

[geoff]

Seems he pretty much echoes the thoughts of we spectators .... "Why the
fuck did they decide to do/not-do that ?".

geoff

[News]

Exactly.

Not a development driver, a pitwall/pitlane critic.

[Alan]

Please.

You don't have the slightest clue...

(Well, actually about anything that I've seen, but in this instance)

...whether Hamilton is a good development driver or not.

[texas gate]

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 1:57:50 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> Please.

please go fuck yourself
you fucking buffoon

[texas gate]

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 1:57:50 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> You don't have the slightest clue...

this from the village idiot

[Martin Harran]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hamilton-now-understands-schumacher-influence/4913142/

[News]

Admits he doesn't appreciate the requirement.

QED

[geoff]

Um, no. Just baffled at inexplicable inept strategy decisions.

geoff

[Alan]

And?

That was Hamilton talking about Hamilton.

[Martin Harran]

The QED is that Hamilton has the ability to recognise a skill
shortfall and work on getting rid of it - the opposite of you.

[Martin Harran]

And you wonder why people think you have a 'thing' about Hamilton.

[texas gate]

On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:10:27 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> And?

and you are a fucking moron

[Alan]

I'd say the same about any uncorroborated report from some tooting his
own horn.

That was an F1 driver—as a class, not known for having small
egos—talking about himself.

Happy now?

[texas gate]

On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 9:23:48 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> I'd say

I never read any further.
Fuck off asshole.

[texas gate]

On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 9:23:48 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> Happy now?

you fucking piece of shit,
cock sucking, rotten,
cunt hole, ass fucker.

[texas gate]

On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 9:23:48 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> Happy now?

Well you aint happy.
Crying about your dead brother here.
You fucking idiot.

[Martin Harran]

>That was an F1 driver預s a class, not known for having small
>egos葉alking about himself.
>
>Happy now?


I didn't see him tooting his horn but that just might be because I
don't have a 'thing' about him.

[texas gate]

On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 5:54:27 AM UTC-6, martin...@gmail.com wrote:

> I don't have a 'thing' about him.

but you do have twisted thing about alice baker
fuck get a life

[Alan]

>> That was an F1 driver—as a class, not known for having small
>> egos—talking about himself.

>>
>> Happy now?
>
>
> I didn't see him tooting his horn but that just might be because I
> don't have a 'thing' about him.

'“But in terms of development, how to get the car to go further and work
with the characteristics of the driver, that’s my job and I’d say I’m
definitely very, very proud of that. Unfortunately people don’t get to
see all that in the background.”'

And you literally presented it as evidence that Hamilton is a good
development driver.

So you want to both say it supports that claim...

...AND that an article that only quotes Hamilton isn't touting his
ability in this area.

Did I miss anything?

[Martin Harran]

Nope, I presented it as evidence about the importance of the driver in
development of the best car. I specifically said:

"Schumacher was particularly superb at that with Ferrari ... I'm not

sure that Hamilton is quite in that league"
>

>So you want to both say it supports that claim...
>
>...AND that an article that only quotes Hamilton isn't touting his
>ability in this area.

He said that "he did not fully comprehend just how big a role drivers
must play in car development before he joined his current team as
Schumacher's replacement ..." and goes on to say "In terms of helping
develop the car, that’s something that I think that drivers – and as
I’m approaching where Michael was – I never fully understood.”

I don't see anything boastful in that.

>
>Did I miss anything?

Not from your point of view, you always see what you want to see in
regard to Hamilton.

[texas gate]

On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 7:19:32 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> Did I miss anything?

a life

[Alan]

You said that earlier in the thread perhaps...

...but the new text in the post you chose to reply to said:

'Please.

You don't have the slightest clue...

(Well, actually about anything that I've seen, but in this instance)

...whether Hamilton is a good development driver or not. '

Your reply was to that, so it is reasonable to infer that you posted to
rebut that.

>>
>> So you want to both say it supports that claim...
>>
>> ...AND that an article that only quotes Hamilton isn't touting his
>> ability in this area.
>
> He said that "he did not fully comprehend just how big a role drivers
> must play in car development before he joined his current team as
> Schumacher's replacement ..." and goes on to say "In terms of helping
> develop the car, that’s something that I think that drivers – and as
> I’m approaching where Michael was – I never fully understood.”
>
> I don't see anything boastful in that.

"and as I'm approaching where Michael was".

>
>>
>> Did I miss anything?
>
> Not from your point of view, you always see what you want to see in
> regard to Hamilton.

You ignore what is clearly there.

The point at issue was whether or not Hamilton was a good development
driver.

You chose to post on that subject something that is literally only
Hamilton talking about Hamilton and clearly stating that he is
"approaching where Michael [Schumacher] was"; a driver acknowledged by
many as among the very best for helping develop the car...

...and then you claim that wasn't boastful.

[texas gate]

On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 11:43:19 AM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> ...and then you claim that wasn't boastful.

you simple, fucking idiot, troll

[texas gate]

On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 11:43:19 AM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> You ignore what is clearly there.

you rotten fucking pig hole
fuck off back to rec.sport.golf
you fucking cock sucking moron

[keithr0]

George Russel
2021 Williams 22 races 16 points

2022 Mercedes 11 races 128 points.

Spot the difference.

[Martin Harran]

>>>>> That was an F1 driver-as a class, not known for having small
>>>>> egos-talking about himself.

>> develop the car, that's something that I think that drivers - and as
>> I'm approaching where Michael was - I never fully understood."

>>
>> I don't see anything boastful in that.
>
>"and as I'm approaching where Michael was".
>
>>
>>>
>>> Did I miss anything?
>>
>> Not from your point of view, you always see what you want to see in
>> regard to Hamilton.
>
>You ignore what is clearly there.
>
>The point at issue was whether or not Hamilton was a good development
>driver.
>
>You chose to post on that subject something that is literally only
>Hamilton talking about Hamilton and clearly stating that he is
>"approaching where Michael [Schumacher] was"; a driver acknowledged by
>many as among the very best for helping develop the car...
>
>...and then you claim that wasn't boastful.

A driver with an outstanding career says that he missed out on an
important part of being a great driver, he's working on it but admits
that he's not fully there yet. Seeing that as "tooting his horn" is a
clear demonstration of your 'thing' about Hamilton.

I also note that you have made no comment about the driver's
contribution to getting the best out of the car, development-wise. So,
do you agree or disagree that the driver can have such a contribution
and, if you agree, do you agree or disagree that Hamilton has made a
contribution in that aspect to the Mercedes success?

[Alan]

Bingo.


2020 Bahrain Grand Prix

Nicolas Latifi: 13th

George Russell: 12th


2020 Sakhir Grand Prix

Nicolas Latifi: retired from 13th

George Russell: had a puncture while running 2nd.


Now:

What exactly WHAT changed?

:-)

[texas gate]

On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 11:59:26 AM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> What exactly WHAT changed?

you got dumber

[Alan]

He "admits" he's approaching one of the acknowledged very best and that
isn't "tooting his own horn".

Well then I guess I can say I'm approaching Hamilton's driving ability!

>
> I also note that you have made no comment about the driver's
> contribution to getting the best out of the car, development-wise. So,
> do you agree or disagree that the driver can have such a contribution
> and, if you agree, do you agree or disagree that Hamilton has made a
> contribution in that aspect to the Mercedes success?

I completely agree a driver can have such a contribution.

And unlike you, I'll clearly state that I don't know how much of a
contribution Hamilton has made to that aspect of the program.

Will you acknowledge that you also haven't any clue about it?

[texas gate]

On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 12:28:52 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> Will you acknowledge that you also haven't any clue about it?

you fucking piece of shit, cock sucking.
mother fucking, loser

[Martin Harran]

Nah, you're streets ahead of Hamilton in tooting one's horn as shown
by your numerous boasts here about your own achievements in racing.

>
>>
>> I also note that you have made no comment about the driver's
>> contribution to getting the best out of the car, development-wise. So,
>> do you agree or disagree that the driver can have such a contribution
>> and, if you agree, do you agree or disagree that Hamilton has made a
>> contribution in that aspect to the Mercedes success?
>
>I completely agree a driver can have such a contribution.

Which undermines your claim about Hamilton's ability being overstated
due to the car. If he helped develop the car then that adds to his
achievements, not takes away from them.

>
>And unlike you, I'll clearly state that I don't know how much of a
>contribution Hamilton has made to that aspect of the program.
>
>Will you acknowledge that you also haven't any clue about it?

As I said earlier "he is widely recognised as playing a key role in
the development of the car since he joined Mercedes" e.g.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/oct/09/what-sets-lewis-hamilton-apart-from-schumacher-is-personal-development

"Schumacher has been lauded for building that Ferrari team around him,
working with engineers and mechanics then going for a beer with them
afterwards. Hamilton is not often given enough credit for doing
similarly at Mercedes. He has grown into his role and Mercedes
emphasise the time and effort he puts into developing the car and his
team. Just what a strong relationship he now enjoys is clear by the
visceral disappointment across the Mercedes garage when he or they do
not deliver."

[Martin Harran]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2022 19:28:05 -0700, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:

>On 2022-07-10 15:50, Andrew Karlsson wrote:
>> sunnuntai 10. heinäkuuta 2022 klo 11.50.21 UTC+3 martin...@gmail.com
>> kirjoitti:
>>> On Fri, 8 Jul 2022 20:06:35 -0700, a425couple
>>> <a425c...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 7/8/2022 9:09 AM, Alan wrote:

>>>>>> Nobody disputes that the car is a factor nor does the study
>>>>>> reported above; where you differ from others is your
>>>>>> insistence that the car is far and away the *biggest* factor
>>>>>> and your obsession that whilst Hamilton is a 'good' driver,
>>>>>> he really isn't all that exceptional, just fortunate to have
>>>>>> had a great car.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have never made any such insistence about Hamilton. Stop
>>>>> repeating that falsehood. I have said repeatedly that he is one
>>>>> of the very best drivers out there currently.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the car is a far, far bigger factor than the driver.
>>>>>
>>>>> Russell got into Hamilton's car and despite not really being
>>>>> able to fit properly, he would have won in it on his first try
>>>>> were it not for a mechanical problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> If Hamilton for some reason got into the Williams that year, he
>>>>> might have been able to push it up a place or two, but he might
>>>>> not even have been able to do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> And you know it.
>>>>
>>>> Alan's statement that the car is a far,far bigger factor than the
>>>> driver, would seem to be supported by this years current
>>>> standings.
>>>>
>>>> How could Max Verstappen and Sergio Perez be first and second,
>>>> other than them being in the best car, Red Bull.
>>>>
>>>> How could Charles Leclerc and Carlos Sainz be 3rd and 4th, other
>>>> than them being in the second best car, Ferrari.
>>>>
>>>> How could George Russell and Lewis Hamilton be 5th and 6th, other
>>>> than them being in the third best car, Mercedes.
>>>>
>>>> Year after year, the grids quite often have the team mates side
>>>> by side.
>>> Points scored over a full season are a pretty good indicator of
>>> the difference between teammates. The last 3 years:
>>>
>>> 2021 Verstappen: 395 Perez: 190 Hamilton: 387.5 Bottas: 226
>>>
>>> 2020 Hamilton: 357 Bottas: 223 Verstappen: 214 Perez: 125
>>>
>>> 2019 Hamilton: 413 Bottas: 326 Verstappen: 278 Gasley+Albon: 187
>>>
>>> So yes, having the best car is more or less a prerequisite for
>>> winning but having the best driver is even more so a prerequisite
>>> which is why the very best drivers always outstrip their
>>> not-so-very-best teammates.
>> People say that the best car is more important than the driver, but
>> the driver is also very important. I mean driver like Latifi or Albon
>> would not win title in the best car if they were given the top car.
>> Hamilton and Verstappen are worthy champions who have deserved to be
>> in the top teams.
>
>
>I don't know about Latifi...
>
>..but how are you so sure that Albon couldn't win a title in a top car?

No comment on those stats and the size of the gap between teammates?

[Martin Harran]

On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:53:08 -0700, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:

>On 2022-07-14 00:46, Martin Harran wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 10:24:27 -0700, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-07-13 10:10, Martin Harran wrote:

>>>> Funny how so many posters here see you with an intense bias against
>>>> Hamilton yet you insist they are wrong Maybe Willie really is the only
>>>> one in step or maybe you might want to rethink the stuff you post
>>>> about him.
>>>
>>> Funnier still that none of them can produce a single quote that supports
>>> their belief.
>>
>> OK, everyone is out of step except Willie.
>
>Sometimes, yes.
>
>But it doesn't actually apply to not being able to provide the quotes.
>
>>
>>>
>>> But please: post the absolute worst thing you can find me saying about
>>> Hamilton.
>>
>>
>> "Damning with faint praise" is clearly another concept that is beyond
>> your comprehension.
>
>I don't damn him with faint praise, so that won't wash either.
>
>The fact of the matter is that all I take issue with is declaring him
>the GOAT simply based on his race record when he was clearly in what was
>an utterly dominant car.

How many posters declared him GOAT?

>
>That's it. It is on that issue that some have declared they understand
>my opinion about Hamilton.

[Alan]

Tacit admission that you have no other example of any issue that I have
specifically with Hamilton.

[Alan]

Apparently you have gotten this far following F1...

...and never heard of:

team number 1 drivers,

or

team orders.

That is some amazing ignorance.

[Martin Harran]

My ignorance would be dispelled if you could give any examples of
Bottas or Perez being disadvantaged by the team when he was still in
the running for WDC.

[texas gate]

On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 1:39:36 AM UTC-6, martin...@gmail.com wrote:

> Nah, you're streets ahead of Hamilton in tooting one's horn as shown
> by your numerous boasts here about your own achievements in racing.

His boasting about that is over.
Fuckhead is not racing this year.
Probably banned from the track
for being at total weird ass cunt.

[texas gate]

On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 9:53:24 AM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> Tacit admission that you have no other example of any issue that I have
> specifically with Hamilton.

fuck you and your tacit.
you simple trolling piece of shit.

[texas gate]

On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 10:20:27 AM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> That is some amazing ignorance.

small things
amaze small minds
you simple trolling fucking idiot

[Alan]

Sure.

Point out a time when either was "still in the running"...

...and see "team number 1 drivers" again.

Seriously, what year was Bottas ever "in the running" at any point in
the season?

Same question for Perez.

[texas gate]

On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 3:35:15 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> Sure.

fuck you and your pussy sure
you fucking pussy cock sucker

[texas gate]

On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 3:35:15 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:

> Seriously

this from a fucking trolling clown