Why So Much Schumacher Bashing?
Michael Fuhrmann
I cannot help but notice all the Schumacher bashing going on in this
newsgroup. He's the best F1 driver on the circuit right now and
should be given credit for this and not bashed so much.
I've been following F1 racing on and off for thirty years. I've never
been a diehard fan of any racer. But I admire the great drivers
like Stewart, Lauda, Prost, Senna.
Schumacher first impressed me a couple years ago during a race in
Spain, where he was the only driver that stayed on the track with
slicks during a rain shower. Some other drivers tried his stunt
but crashed out; everyone else came in for rain tires and then later
when the rains stopped and the track cleared came back in and
put on slicks. Schumacher's performance that day was sublime
and he went on to win that race. I've watched most races since
then and I can conclude that there is no driver on the circuit that
is even close to Schumacher's level of skill.
I've noticed that all the people that bash Schumacher do so only
because they envy him and, most of all, fear Schumacher immensely.
I admire Michael Schumacher and consider him a great F1 driver.
Volker Herminghaus
You made a great mistake. Never be reasonable in this newsgroup!
--
Volker Herminghaus
Email supplied upon request
Jonathan B Farrer
He may be a good driver but there is no way you should admire anyone who
is prepared to use such underhand tactics to win. Its not the first time
its happened either, is it. Damon Hill was on the recieving end of a
Schumacher 'accident', and it cost him the title. This is certainly nothing
to admire, and in my opinion he got off far to lightly.
Nasos (A.M.Christodoulopoulos)
I am not saying that Schuey was right, But didn't Damon just run all over
Nakano at some point, and I don't need to go into the Senna/Prost stuff..
Just a thought...
Philip (P.M.R.) Smith
Michael Fuhrmann wrote:
> I cannot help but notice all the Schumacher bashing going on in this
> newsgroup. He's the best F1 driver on the circuit right now and
> should be given credit for this and not bashed so much.
>
> I've noticed that all the people that bash Schumacher do so only
> because they envy him and, most of all, fear Schumacher immensely.
>
> I admire Michael Schumacher and consider him a great F1 driver.
Schumacher is ahead of the field in terms of natural talent, and I
don't think many in this newsgroup would disagree with that. The fact is,
though, Shumacher has shown himself on more than one occasion to be a bad
sportsman, most notably in trying to shunt his opponents off the track in
title races (see 1994 and 1997). What's more, the inevitable comparison
between his temperament and that of his long-time rival Hill, considered
by some to be the ultimate gentleman, shows Schumi coming off worse (not
that Damon is always perfect). With the memory of Jerez still looming, I
think the bad feeling is due more to the man's attitude than his driving
talent.
Phil
Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Alan Owens wrote:
> So to answer you questions, the Schumacher bashing originates in Jerez
> and is fed by the smallminded antagonists who proliferate the internet.
I've been hanging around here for years now, and since 1994, Schumacher
bashing has originated from a certain island where they won't like
Germans. Not that the man himself has made it any easier for himslef, but
that's where it originated from.
Tuomo
Pedro Guimaraes
Please don't insult Jackye Stewart by comparing him to Schumacher. Both
great champions, but only one gentleman.
If Schummy tryes to be honest, he'll be less talent.
RPP
>I cannot help but notice all the Schumacher bashing going on in this
>newsgroup. He's the best F1 driver on the circuit right now and
>should be given credit for this and not bashed so much.
>
cause you say so? Hes also the only driver who had to resort to
cheating to compete for a WC. Hill never resorted to cheating, and
hence had his 94 WC cheated away from him by that cheat Scum.
Jamie Dyer
I don't think that's very fair Tuomo. I have seen very few anti-Schu
posts from Malta. Quite a few from Canada though, I can't imagine what
upset them...
JamieD.
David Johnson
Nasos (A.M.Christodoulopoulos) wrote:
But Schumacher did it twice where it would really decide the
championship.
--
David Johnson
XLNT
da...@xlnt.com
Paul Sobejko
No, but Hill had the stewards do the cheating for him.
Paul S.
Paul Winalski
Michael Fuhrmann wrote:
>
> I cannot help but notice all the Schumacher bashing going on in this
> newsgroup. He's the best F1 driver on the circuit right now and
> should be given credit for this and not bashed so much.
Agreed, but he also deliberately tried to punt another
driver off the track. That sort of behavior can't be
tolerated at any level of the sport, let alone in F1.
--PSW
Mr. Hot Pants
Thomas Heineman wrote:
>
> One word: Cheat...
Well, I have two words for you... one of em's "off"...
> > I cannot help but notice all the Schumacher bashing going on in this
> > newsgroup. He's the best F1 driver on the circuit right now and
> > should be given credit for this and not bashed so much.
> >
> > I've been following F1 racing on and off for thirty years. I've never
> > been a diehard fan of any racer. But I admire the great drivers
> > like Stewart, Lauda, Prost, Senna.
> >
> > Schumacher first impressed me a couple years ago during a race in
> > Spain, where he was the only driver that stayed on the track with
> > slicks during a rain shower. Some other drivers tried his stunt
> > but crashed out; everyone else came in for rain tires and then later
> > when the rains stopped and the track cleared came back in and
> > put on slicks. Schumacher's performance that day was sublime
> > and he went on to win that race. I've watched most races since
> > then and I can conclude that there is no driver on the circuit that
> > is even close to Schumacher's level of skill.
> >
> > I've noticed that all the people that bash Schumacher do so only
> > because they envy him and, most of all, fear Schumacher immensely.
> >
> > I admire Michael Schumacher and consider him a great F1 driver.
Mr. Hot Pants
http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/4392
Mr. Hot Pants
RPP wrote:
>
> On 27 Jan 1998 02:36:02 GMT, "W.K. Ng" <wei...@kcl.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >RPP <le...@mail.netinc.ca> wrote in article
> ><34cd0653....@news.netinc.ca>...
---
> >> cause you say so? Hes also the only driver who had to resort to
> >> cheating to compete for a WC. Hill never resorted to cheating, and
> >> hence had his 94 WC cheated away from him by that cheat Scum.
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
> I am talking about more than Adelaide. The whole of 94 was a cheat
> fest for Scummy. The illegal launch software, the plank, the
> refuelling rig and Adelaide crash all gave Scummy the advantage he
> needed to beat Hill. Without that advantage, he was not going to
> compete.
Do you like lemonade?
Mr. Hot Pants
Shakin' it for all to see
Mr. Hot Pants
5168665354674 wrote:
>
> On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:31:43 -0800, Michael Fuhrmann
> <Michael_...@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
This I cannot let slide. We do not lack "values" because we see
Schumacher in a different light. Although not nearly as bad, you
occasionally remind me of that vile Dr. Laura Schlessinger.
(Let's hear a cheer from all who hate Dr. Laura!)
Mr. Hot Pants
jomurphy
Schumacher arrived by spaceship everyone else arrived by bus.The only thing
Schumacher did wrong was to admit he made a mistake,is it true that williams
will have a target on their new bodywork? JORDAN IN 98.
Michael Fuhrmann wrote in message <34CC9E4F...@bc.sympatico.ca>...
>I cannot help but notice all the Schumacher bashing going on in this
>newsgroup. .
Thomas Heineman
One word: Cheat...
> I cannot help but notice all the Schumacher bashing going on in this
> newsgroup. He's the best F1 driver on the circuit right now and
> should be given credit for this and not bashed so much.
>
> I've been following F1 racing on and off for thirty years. I've never
> been a diehard fan of any racer. But I admire the great drivers
> like Stewart, Lauda, Prost, Senna.
>
> Schumacher first impressed me a couple years ago during a race in
> Spain, where he was the only driver that stayed on the track with
> slicks during a rain shower. Some other drivers tried his stunt
> but crashed out; everyone else came in for rain tires and then later
> when the rains stopped and the track cleared came back in and
> put on slicks. Schumacher's performance that day was sublime
> and he went on to win that race. I've watched most races since
> then and I can conclude that there is no driver on the circuit that
> is even close to Schumacher's level of skill.
>
> I've noticed that all the people that bash Schumacher do so only
> because they envy him and, most of all, fear Schumacher immensely.
>
Mark J. Frusciante
Jamie Dyer <ja...@foul.demon.oc.ku> wrote:
->On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho wrote:
->>I've been hanging around here for years now, and since 1994, Schumacher
->>bashing has originated from a certain island where they won't like
->>Germans.
Can you say "vengeance weapon" ?
->>Not that the man himself has made it any easier for himslef, but
->>that's where it originated from.
->I don't think that's very fair Tuomo. I have seen very few anti-Schu
->posts from Malta. Quite a few from Canada though, I can't imagine what
->upset them...
I should think the 1997 Monaco GP would do for starters...
Mark
http://www.pipeline.com/~opus/racing.htm
Home of the RASF1 autobiographies, and host to Lucy's Ramblings.
"Which dumbass plugged the TV into this typewriter ?" - Butthead
W.K. Ng
RPP <le...@mail.netinc.ca> wrote in article
<34cd0653....@news.netinc.ca>...
> On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:31:43 -0800, Michael Fuhrmann
> <Michael_...@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >I cannot help but notice all the Schumacher bashing going on in this
> >newsgroup. He's the best F1 driver on the circuit right now and
> >should be given credit for this and not bashed so much.
> >
>
>
Bosco Moriones
Nasos (A.M.Christodoulopoulos) wrote:
>
> On 26 Jan 1998, Jonathan B Farrer wrote:
>
> >
> > He may be a good driver but there is no way you should admire anyone who
> > is prepared to use such underhand tactics to win. Its not the first time
> > its happened either, is it. Damon Hill was on the recieving end of a
> > Schumacher 'accident', and it cost him the title. This is certainly nothing
> > to admire, and in my opinion he got off far to lightly.
> >
>
> I am not saying that Schuey was right, But didn't Damon just run all over
> Nakano at some point, and I don't need to go into the Senna/Prost stuff..
> Just a thought...
Honestly! If you can't appreciate the difference well.... Words simply
fail me!
RPP
Volker Herminghaus
The difference being that one was Schumacher and the other being Hill.
Volker Herminghaus
In <34CD4734...@lspace.zko.dec.com> Paul Winalski wrote:
> Michael Fuhrmann wrote:
> >
> > I cannot help but notice all the Schumacher bashing going on in this
> > newsgroup. He's the best F1 driver on the circuit right now and
> > should be given credit for this and not bashed so much.
>
> driver off the track. That sort of behavior can't be
> tolerated at any level of the sport, let alone in F1.
You are absolutely right! Let's disqualify Hill for deliberately trying to
punt Nakano off the track.
Let's also get rid of Irvine and Alesi for their various attempts in recent
years, along with Ralf Schumacher. Oh, and Villeneuve, of course, for Suzuka
1997 (coming out of the pit lane trying to hit MS). And let's take away one
WC title of Prost and Senna.
Now that I've insulted almost everyone, I have nowhere to hide. What fun :-)
Les Norton
Tuomo,
maybe that has something to do with an Austrian nut case they used to
call "Adolf".
Or, maybe with superior German engineering in many cases, you'll never
know. ;-).
I think it's due to the fact that we see Germans - in general - void of
emotions, and trying to hard to get it right, true or false, but its
just the way they come across, maybe its just the accent. I have a few
German friends, once you know them, they are great fun, honestly, this
ng needs to loosen up a little, it's not a High Court, just a fun ng.
Sometimes we seem to loose sight of this fact. We are not the actors,
only the audience of f1.
Les
Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Alan Owens wrote:
>
> > So to answer you questions, the Schumacher bashing originates in
> Jerez
> > and is fed by the smallminded antagonists who proliferate the
> internet.
>
> I've been hanging around here for years now, and since 1994,
> Schumacher
> bashing has originated from a certain island where they won't like
> Germans. Not that the man himself has made it any easier for himslef,
> but
> that's where it originated from.
> Tuomo
Alan Pengelly
Michael Fuhrmann wrote:
>
> I cannot help but notice all the Schumacher bashing going on in this
> newsgroup. He's the best F1 driver on the circuit right now and
> should be given credit for this and not bashed so much.
I wouldn't put Schumacher out too far in front of the rest, and I think
he would need to compete in a top-flight team on equal terms with his
team mate before I'm entirely convinced.
> I've been following F1 racing on and off for thirty years. I've never
> been a diehard fan of any racer. But I admire the great drivers
> like Stewart, Lauda, Prost, Senna.
Same here. But it was the same with Senna. Undoubted ability, but a
flawed character on the circuit, which in my view detracted from his
talent. If I had to pick a favourite it would be between Clark and
Stewart, with Clark getting the nod because he clearly just loved racing
cars (and any car).
> Schumacher first impressed me a couple years ago during a race in
> Spain, where he was the only driver that stayed on the track with
> slicks during a rain shower. Some other drivers tried his stunt
> but crashed out; everyone else came in for rain tires and then later
> when the rains stopped and the track cleared came back in and
> put on slicks. Schumacher's performance that day was sublime
> and he went on to win that race.
I'll admit that my memory isn't what it used to be, but I don't remember
this. I remember '96 when Ferrari went for a full wet setup and the
others didn't - so he walked it. I'm not saying you're wrong - but I
really can't remember the race you refer to. I'll have to look at my F1
review videos to check it out.
>I've watched most races since
> then and I can conclude that there is no driver on the circuit that
> is even close to Schumacher's level of skill.
Probably right, but there are some grey areas.
> I've noticed that all the people that bash Schumacher do so only
> because they envy him and, most of all, fear Schumacher immensely.
Why would anyone here fear Schumacher? Fear what exactly? Envy him -
well possibly, I envy anyone earning £20 million a year.
> I admire Michael Schumacher and consider him a great F1 driver.
Good for you. But I think you'll find that a lot of the bashing here
amounts to people dishing out their own form of punishment for Jerez,
given that the FIA didn't! I suspect he'll also get a hostile reception
at a few circuits this year as well. I think he deserves it frankly.
Alan
glenys williams
On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:54:52 +0000, Peter Scoular wrote:
>"Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho" writes
>>On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Alan Owens wrote:
>>> So to answer you questions, the Schumacher bashing originates in Jerez
>>> and is fed by the smallminded antagonists who proliferate the internet.
>>I've been hanging around here for years now, and since 1994, Schumacher
>>bashing has originated from a certain island where they won't like
>>Germans. Not that the man himself has made it any easier for himslef, but
>>that's where it originated from.
>Tuomo you have surpised me, I would have thought that this bigoted style
>of post was beneath you.
>regards
Well done, Peter, you didn't mention the war. Oops.
glenys
put my first name and pop.onwe in the relevant places
Alan Owens
Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho wrote:
>
> On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Alan Owens wrote:
>
> > So to answer you questions, the Schumacher bashing originates in Jerez
> > and is fed by the smallminded antagonists who proliferate the internet.
>
> I've been hanging around here for years now, and since 1994, Schumacher
> bashing has originated from a certain island where they won't like
> Germans. Not that the man himself has made it any easier for himslef, but
> that's where it originated from.
> Tuomo
Well every driver has his detractors but the current spate of bashing
stems from the Jerez incident.
HHF doesn't seem to get the same level of vitrol leveled at him either
before or after his move to a certain British team, but he isn't as
successful which backs up the original writers idea that success is the
leading cause, but I'll stand by the assertion that Jerez was the spark
for the latest round of Schumacher bashing.
Alan
auspoly
I couldn't agree more Michael. He has let pressure get the better of him on
a few occasions (but then who hasn't) but overall he has proven himself to
be consistently the best over a long period of time.
Witness what other drivers, supposedly fine and fast, did with the Benetton
in the season after Schumacher left to join Ferrari. They were relatively
slow and couldn't handle the chassis at all.
To my mind the mark of a great driver is not one who can make good use of an
excellent chassis/engine combination, but rather one who can exceed the
capabilities of a mediocre car and still excel against more privileged
drivers in better machines.
People citing isolated incidents should look at the bigger picture when
judging a driver's talent.
Keep the faith
Marc.
Patrick Lauwers
5168665354674 wrote:
>
> On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:17:49 -0800, "Mr. Hot Pants"
> <vis...@beep.sisna.chile.con.carne.com> wrote:
>
> >>Thomas Heineman wrote:
> >>>
> >>> One word: Cheat...
> >>
> >>Well, I have two words for you... one of em's "off"...
>
>
> poor sport.
1 2
>
> schmacker is a poor sport as well as a cheat.
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
>
> it goes better with chicken mcnuggets.
13 14 15 16 17 18
Ermmm... those are more than two words..
looks like you're cheating... like a real sportsman :)
Peter Scoular
"Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho" writes
>
>On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Alan Owens wrote:
>> So to answer you questions, the Schumacher bashing originates in Jerez
>> and is fed by the smallminded antagonists who proliferate the internet.
>
>I've been hanging around here for years now, and since 1994, Schumacher
>bashing has originated from a certain island where they won't like
>Germans. Not that the man himself has made it any easier for himslef, but
>that's where it originated from.
Tuomo you have surpised me, I would have thought that this bigoted style
of post was beneath you.
regards
--
Peter Hill is the man - Keep the faith.
Alan Pengelly
auspoly wrote:
>
> I couldn't agree more Michael. He has let pressure get the better of him on
> a few occasions (but then who hasn't) but overall he has proven himself to
> be consistently the best over a long period of time.
>
> Witness what other drivers, supposedly fine and fast, did with the Benetton
> in the season after Schumacher left to join Ferrari. They were relatively
> slow and couldn't handle the chassis at all.
I think you have to be very careful with this sort of statement. You
could equally take the view that Schumacher got out while the going was
good - possibly seeing that the team was beginning to loose its way.
Witness Senna and McLaren. Mclaren started loosing the game plan even
while Senna was still there.
> To my mind the mark of a great driver is not one who can make good use of an
> excellent chassis/engine combination, but rather one who can exceed the
> capabilities of a mediocre car and still excel against more privileged
> drivers in better machines.
I've yet to see any driver do this. I'm struggling to remember any
driver who won the champioship in a mediocre car. Can anyone else?
Schumacher certainly hasn't done it yet.
> People citing isolated incidents should look at the bigger picture when
> judging a driver's talent.
I think I've just tried to.
Alan
Herbert Eitel
Peter Scoular <pe...@nospam.demon.co.uk> schrieb im Beitrag
<AF68LDBc...@scoular1.demon.co.uk>...
> "Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho" writes
> >
> >On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Alan Owens wrote:
> >> So to answer you questions, the Schumacher bashing originates in Jerez
> >> and is fed by the smallminded antagonists who proliferate the
internet.
> >
> >I've been hanging around here for years now, and since 1994, Schumacher
> >bashing has originated from a certain island where they won't like
> >Germans. Not that the man himself has made it any easier for himslef,
but
> >that's where it originated from.
I (almost) always loved all things that came from Britain since I was a
great
Beatles- and Stones-Fan, and I have great admiration for a lot of Brits
through
all the years until now. I loved even English football, especially
Scottish.
I often went to England and Scotland in my life and I still love to go
there,
I even consider to live there sometimes. I have some very good friends
there
and I'm glad that what we sometimes read in the newspaper or what we
have to see in the telly in GB about Germans is fortunately not what I
could experience during all those years. It's a wonderful country and
there are wonderful people.
You can find boneheaded idiots everywhere, in Germany, in Uk and
certainly in this NG. But that's a totally different thing and you can't
avoid it.
They probably have a unsatisfying sexlife or something like that.
The best you can do is to ignore it. The less they understand of F1 the
more
they like to bash around.
F1 for me was Clark, Stewart, and Hill in those days together with
Amon and Rindt. Times have changed of course and I cannot find
this attitude in any of those drivers nowadays anymore.
Nevertheless I like to see them driving, competing,
I like to hear the sound of a F1 engine hunting through Eau rouge,
the feeling in the stomach in Hockenheim when the gear
changes from 5th to 6th far away in the wood up to
the first chicane, I like the drivers, who are able to
provide us with all that stuff. I like it when they
do an outstanding job, anyway if it comes from
a Villeneuve, a Hill, a Frentzen, a Hill or a Schumacher. They are all
great. OK, they sometimes act like kids, too, especially when
opening their mouth, but that's maybe part of the show in the
meantime.
Take those things easy. It's a sport, isn't it?!
Just enjoy racing!
Herbert
A fan of Johnny!:-)
_______________
Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho
On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Peter Scoular wrote:
> Tuomo you have surpised me, I would have thought that this bigoted style
> of post was beneath you.
> regards
> --
> Peter Hill is the man - Keep the faith.
Ok, maybe I went too far. I was just getting really pissed by - surprise,
surprise - Schumacher bashing. I spent some time working in London summer
'95, and it blew my mind how Schumacher was portrayed as the Satan
himself.
Tuomo
Neil
Volker Herminghaus wrote in message <6ak1cc$m...@www.langen.bull.de>...
>The difference being that one was Schumacher and the other being Hill.
Not even close...
Point being that in Adelaide '94 it is highly likely that *without* the
collision Schumacher would have lost the race, and the WC.
In Jerez '97 Schumacher had already been passed, he had lost the corner
clearly. Now given what he would stand to gain if the manoeuvre was
successful, what do you believe was the reason and the motivation for this
collision with an already ahead (and therefore certainly visible) car?
What Hill did to Nakano was wrong, as a Hill fan I can admit that. But I
believe the reason and motivation were far, far different. I don't believe
that he deliberately took Nakano out of the race, although I don't believe
he avoided it. I think it was more due to frustration, and "I am going to
overtake you, you had better get out of the way, or we will crash...".
Completely different than "I have probably lost the race, *and* the WC, but
I am going to try and take you out...". Oh IMVVVVHO, of course ;-)
Regards...
Neil
--
"Victims - aren't we all..."
Paul Martin
Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho wrote in message ...
>Ok, maybe I went too far. I was just getting really pissed by -
surprise,
>surprise - Schumacher bashing. I spent some time working in
London summer
>'95, and it blew my mind how Schumacher was portrayed as the
Satan
>himself.
I agree (but look at the bad press Hill got for Silverstone '95
even in this country) - but it was a very temporary thing.
Certainly *until Jerez* there wasn't any discernable
pro-Villeneuve or anti-Schumacher bias in the UK press.
Carl R Griffith
Herbert Eitel wrote:
> I (almost) always loved all things that came from Britain since I was
> a
> great
> Beatles- and Stones-Fan, and I have great admiration for a lot of
> Brits
> through
> all the years until now.
That's because we are now reflected as a nation by 'Oasis' and/or the
'Spice Girls' - not fair! Little wonder we are no longer perceived as
refined and cuddly .... (!)
> I loved even English football, especially
> Scottish.
Rugby is the 'real' game over here, actually! Oh, and F1, of course ...
but we only get one of those over here each year ... for now(!) ...
> I often went to England and Scotland in my life and I still love to go
>
> there,
> I even consider to live there sometimes. I have some very good friends
>
> there
> and I'm glad that what we sometimes read in the newspaper or what we
> have to see in the telly in GB about Germans is fortunately not what I
>
> could experience during all those years. It's a wonderful country and
> there are wonderful people.
What about us Welsh?!
>
>
> You can find boneheaded idiots everywhere, in Germany, in Uk and
> certainly in this NG. But that's a totally different thing and you
> can't
> avoid it.
Yup.
> They probably have a unsatisfying sexlife or something like that.
> The best you can do is to ignore it. The less they understand of F1
> the
> more
> they like to bash around.
Yup, yup.
>
>
> F1 for me was Clark, Stewart, and Hill in those days together with
> Amon and Rindt. Times have changed of course and I cannot find
> this attitude in any of those drivers nowadays anymore.
More of a Hunt, Surtees man, m'self ... but yes, modern drivers are an
odd lot; the rewards are so vast they have gone the way of all the
other ego-centric global sports - tennis, golf, etc ...
Damon seems an exception to this, must be said. And Herbert.
> Nevertheless I like to see them driving, competing,
> I like to hear the sound of a F1 engine hunting through Eau rouge,
> the feeling in the stomach in Hockenheim when the gear
> changes from 5th to 6th far away in the wood up to
> the first chicane, I like the drivers, who are able to
> provide us with all that stuff. I like it when they
> do an outstanding job, anyway if it comes from
> a Villeneuve, a Hill, a Frentzen, a Hill or a Schumacher.
Yes, yes, yes - the live sounds from F1. Wow. First time heard, never
forgotten - at least the tyres/etc nonsense/etc for this year cannot
change the noise(!). For now ....
> They are all
> great. OK, they sometimes act like kids, too, especially when
> opening their mouth, but that's maybe part of the show in the
> meantime.
Hmmmm ... see earlier para. Don't give them too much credit for their
often puerile behaviour ...
>
>
> Take those things easy. It's a sport, isn't it?!
Not now. Mega-business first, sport is incidental to it, sadly. Case
in point example: too many spectators wear baseball-caps emblazoned
with logos, no flat-caps permitted any longer as no room for logos, etc
...
> Just enjoy racing!
Exactly.
>
>
> Herbert
>
> A fan of Johnny!:-)
> _______________
Quite right too! He'll rather pee-off Alesi this year in out-performing
him, then watch Alesi's tantrums!
Cheers - not long now until Oz ...
--
Carl Griffith
Neil
5168665354674 <417...@56583.9668> wrote in message
>>>Both great champions, but only one gentleman.
>
>only the gentleman is a GREAT champion. the other is a champion
>in name only.
Spidey
To kinda carry on this theme, I read an article in a classic car magazine
over the weekend. I think it was about Stirling Moss. It was about a race
that decided the WC between him and another driver (my memory fails me for
the other drivers name), which in the end came down to a *half* point WC
victory in favour of the other driver.
This other (nameless) driver had a spin at Monaco (?) which I think gave
Moss the lead of the race. This other driver's car was then stalled facing
the wrong direction of the race track. He then pushed it, going the wrong
way, to get it started and managed to finish the race in 2nd place.
After the race the FIA (or the equivalent body then), disqualified the
driver-with-no-name, for breaking the rules by pushing / starting his car by
going in the wrong direction. He argued that he pushed his car on the
pavement, therefore not breaking the rules. The "governing body" didn't
accept this, until another driver (only one) came forward to verify this.
This "other" driver was Moss.
When Moss was questioned about this later "Why did you come forward? No-one
would have known if you didn't...", Moss replied "I would have known."
Who else of todays (and for that matter yesterdays) crop of drivers do you
believe would have behaved as sportsmanly as this? I do admit the pressures
and rewards of F1 today are probably a world apart from this utopian age,
but it is the ethic that I am emphasising.
As well as skill, which I accept that Mr Schumacher has in abundance, it is
qualities or attributes such as this, that I believe makes all the
difference in the drivers that I admire.
Regards...
Neil
--
"This one's got purple in it...purple is a fruit."
Neil
5168665354674 <417...@56583.9668> wrote in message
>>> and, most of all, fear Schumacher immensely.
>
>huh? why would i fear schmacker? if he shows up around here i'll
>cover him with bear repellant. that aughtta discourage the man.
ROTFLMAO!!! :-))))
Gets my vote for witty riposte of the week...
Regards...
Neil
--
"If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day
and do it really half-assed, Thats the American Way!" - Homer Simpson
Alan Owens
Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho wrote:
>
> On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Peter Scoular wrote:
>
> > Tuomo you have surpised me, I would have thought that this bigoted style
> > of post was beneath you.
> > regards
> > --
> > Peter Hill is the man - Keep the faith.
>
> surprise - Schumacher bashing. I spent some time working in London summer
> '95, and it blew my mind how Schumacher was portrayed as the Satan
> himself.
>
Especially as we all know Satan legally changed his name to Bernie.
Ahhh Ecclestone bashing, something that we all can do and nobody
disagrees.
Alan
Mr. Hot Pants
Alan Pengelly wrote:
>
> Michael Fuhrmann wrote:
> >
> > I cannot help but notice all the Schumacher bashing going on in this
> > newsgroup. He's the best F1 driver on the circuit right now and
> > should be given credit for this and not bashed so much.
>
> I wouldn't put Schumacher out too far in front of the rest, and I think
> he would need to compete in a top-flight team on equal terms with his
> team mate before I'm entirely convinced.
If you are recognized by all as the best driver, you have the leverage
needed to have total #1 status in the team. Don't think anyone else in
Schui's position would have it any differently.
Mr. Hot Pants
Beep
Charles Bell
RPP wrote:
>
> On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:31:43 -0800, Michael Fuhrmann
>
> >I cannot help but notice all the Schumacher bashing going on in this
> >newsgroup. He's the best F1 driver on the circuit right now and
> >should be given credit for this and not bashed so much.
> >
>
> cheating to compete for a WC. Hill never resorted to cheating, and
> hence had his 94 WC cheated away from him by that cheat Scum.
Stop mincing your words RPP, get to the point man. What are you tring to
say? Are you a Schumacher fan or a Hill fan? I just can't figure it out.
(So I suppose that makes me a 'dumbass' right?)
Chazz
(Sarcastic? Don't know the meaning of the word!)
Charles Bell
> If Schummy tryes to be honest, he'll be less talent.
<logic>
Honesty is inversely proportional to talent?
</logic>
<sarcasm>
I'm going to tell lots of lies in order to attain the level of talent
needed to become an F1 world champion. Starting from....... now!
"My whang is a good 12 inches long!". That's throttle control taken care
of. Lets move on to overtaking skills.....
</sarcasm>
Chazz
Alan Owens
Mr. Hot Pants wrote:
>
> Alan Pengelly wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I cannot help but notice all the Schumacher bashing going on in this
> > > newsgroup. He's the best F1 driver on the circuit right now and
> > > should be given credit for this and not bashed so much.
> >
> > he would need to compete in a top-flight team on equal terms with his
> > team mate before I'm entirely convinced.
>
> If you are recognized by all as the best driver, you have the leverage
> needed to have total #1 status in the team. Don't think anyone else in
> Schui's position would have it any differently.
>
> Mr. Hot Pants
> Beep
I have to add that I think Ferrari can't mount a serious challenge for
the world championship without focusing their efforts on one driver.
It reminds me of an old joke, it's stereotypically bigoted but if taken
in the spirit that it's intended should cause only amusement.
Heaven is where the cops are British, the mechanics German, the chefs
Italian, the lovers French and it's all run by the Swiss.
Hell is where the cops are German, the mechanics French, the chefs
British, the lovers Swiss and it's all run by the Italians. :-D
My some happy coincident that covers all the nations of the teams.
Alan
David Brower
"Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho" <ptu...@gsbphd4.uchicago.edu> writes:
>On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Alan Owens wrote:
>> So to answer you questions, the Schumacher bashing originates in Jerez
>> and is fed by the smallminded antagonists who proliferate the internet.
>I've been hanging around here for years now, and since 1994, Schumacher
>bashing has originated from a certain island where they won't like
>Germans. Not that the man himself has made it any easier for himslef, but
>that's where it originated from.
> Tuomo
There's been bashing from the US and Canada as well. I think you'd be
hard pressed to identify the location of the first comment questioning
the Black Knight's reputation. You got usenet archives back to '92 or '93?
-dB
--
"It's hard to find a black cat in a dark room. | David Brower
Especially if the cat's not there. | dbr...@oracle.com
But we will!" | da...@acm.org
Nasos (A.M.Christodoulopoulos)
On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Neil wrote:
>
> What Hill did to Nakano was wrong, as a Hill fan I can admit that. But I
> believe the reason and motivation were far, far different. I don't believe
> that he deliberately took Nakano out of the race, although I don't believe
> he avoided it. I think it was more due to frustration, and "I am going to
> overtake you, you had better get out of the way, or we will crash...".
"I don't believe that he deliberately took Nakano out of the race"
and
"I am going to overtake you, you had better get out the way or we will
crash"
I think that's a contradiction...
Nasos (A.M.Christodoulopoulos)
On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Alan Owens wrote:
> Especially as we all know Satan legally changed his name to Bernie.
>
> Ahhh Ecclestone bashing, something that we all can do and nobody
> disagrees.
>
> Alan
>
>
After watching F1 for several years (I do not want to reveal my age), I
still know absolutely nothing about the puppet master "Mr B. Ecclestone".
Does anyone have any backgroung info, how did he get into F1? when did it
dawn on him that he can make millions (if not billions) from people
watching F1? Etc....
Thanx,
Nas
Mike Wells
Nasos (A.M.Christodoulopoulos) wrote:
> After watching F1 for several years (I do not want to reveal my age), I
> still know absolutely nothing about the puppet master "Mr B. Ecclestone".
>
> Does anyone have any backgroung info, how did he get into F1? when did it
> dawn on him that he can make millions (if not billions) from people
> watching F1? Etc....
Ecclestone is a former car racer who bought the Brabham F1 team in the
late 70s and then sold it in the 80s. He hasn't shown any desire to
reveal much about himself. He isn't a megalomaniac, in fact he keeps
quite a low profile. On top of that his wife owns 80% of the financial
assets he controls. She's the rich one.
Mike Wells
Neil wrote:
The level of sportsmanship in Moss's time was very much related to the
frequent fatalities among drivers. One in three drivers died back then
in the course of their racing career (an overstatement). Therefore, a
deep respect among all permeated the atmosphere because no one knew
who'd be next. It was this reason alone why they were extremely
honourable and respectful of others. With safety improvements over the
years and therefore increases in risk-taking, the level of respect has
declined.
ruddell
In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.980126144740.9841C-
100...@gsbphd4.uchicago.edu>, ptu...@gsbphd4.uchicago.edu says...
>
> On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Alan Owens wrote:
>
> > So to answer you questions, the Schumacher bashing originates in Jerez
> > and is fed by the smallminded antagonists who proliferate the internet.
>
> I've been hanging around here for years now, and since 1994, Schumacher
> bashing has originated from a certain island where they won't like
> Germans.
well, that would be japan or oz now wouldnt it? cant think of any other
island...
try to be a little more specific so us canadians can follow what you
say...
dennis
the thunderbird
Mr. Hot Pants
5168665354674 wrote:
---
> so now you call me vile......
No.. your "moral high ground" stance is vile.
> i'm not here for this, that's for sure.
>
> i think you just made the decision for me.
>
> bye bye.
(sniff sniff) Leave me standing at the altar, why don't you...
Toodley-doodley.
Mr. Hot Pants
Bruce #33
#33.....?????
--
Bruce #33
JPS VRT
"Oooh...imagine that....being killed while you're alive".
Miss Tina
piotr wrote in message <34CCEB...@nrcphy1.phy.nrc.ca>...
>Michael Fuhrmann wrote:
>Who else are we supposed to bash.
Neil
Nasos (A.M.Christodoulopoulos) wrote in message ...
>"I don't believe that he deliberately took Nakano out of the race"
>and
>"I am going to overtake you, you had better get out the way or we will
>crash"
> I think that's a contradiction...
Not so...
I believe that Hill didn't explicitly intend to take out Nakano, just that
he simply intended to overtake him.
I believe in the process he took out Nakano, and that this could have been
avoided if Hill had not decided to overtake at any cost. I think this was a
very rare, possibly unique incident for Hill, in which he showed that
frustration had clearly got the better of him.
I still maintain that this is quite different from the Jerez incident. Hill
appeared to behave in perhaps a bullish manner, but not a deliberately
nefarious manner. He deserved punishment for this action, nonetheless, and
received a one race suspended ban IIRC.
I don't believe there is any contradiction in what I have said. Perhaps you
could explain why you feel there is.
Regards...
Neil
--
"Oh, don't worry about it. You're finished, that's all... It happens all
the time. That's Showbusiness for you; One day you're the most important
guy who ever lived...the next day you're some schmo working in a box
factory."
Neil
Mike Wells wrote in message <34CE5DDB...@easyinternet.net>...
>The level of sportsmanship in Moss's time was very much related to the
>frequent fatalities among drivers. One in three drivers died back then
>in the course of their racing career (an overstatement). Therefore, a
>deep respect among all permeated the atmosphere because no one knew
>who'd be next. It was this reason alone why they were extremely
>honourable and respectful of others. With safety improvements over the
>years and therefore increases in risk-taking, the level of respect has
>declined.
Probably true, but this didn't just display respect for other drivers. It
displayed great sportsmanship, and much personal integrity and ethic.
I believe it said more about Moss as a person, rather than his opinions or
regards for others.
Camaradarie apart, I still don't see that many drivers who have displayed
sufficient integrity to behave in a similar manner. There are perhaps a
couple that I believe would, though.
Regards...
Neil
--
"Earth to Marge. I was there... the clown's G-I-L-L-T-Y."
Ian Thomas
Mr. Hot Pants wrote:
>
> RPP wrote:
> >
> > On 27 Jan 1998 02:36:02 GMT, "W.K. Ng" <wei...@kcl.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >RPP <le...@mail.netinc.ca> wrote in article
> > ><34cd0653....@news.netinc.ca>...
> ---
> > >> cause you say so? Hes also the only driver who had to resort to
> > >> cheating to compete for a WC. Hill never resorted to cheating, and
> > >> hence had his 94 WC cheated away from him by that cheat Scum.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > I am talking about more than Adelaide. The whole of 94 was a cheat
> > fest for Scummy. The illegal launch software, the plank, the
> > refuelling rig and Adelaide crash all gave Scummy the advantage he
> > needed to beat Hill. Without that advantage, he was not going to
> > compete.
>
> Do you like lemonade?
>
Limeade for me please. :-)
--
'No one ever said it was meant to be fair.'
The Raven (don't call him Quoth)
(from the Discworld's Unseen University Diary 1998)
<http://freespace.virgin.net/ian.thomas1/>
Ian Thomas
Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho wrote:
>
> On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Peter Scoular wrote:
>
> > Tuomo you have surpised me, I would have thought that this bigoted style
> > of post was beneath you.
> > regards
> > --
> > Peter Hill is the man - Keep the faith.
>
> Ok, maybe I went too far. I was just getting really pissed by - surprise,
> surprise - Schumacher bashing. I spent some time working in London summer
> '95, and it blew my mind how Schumacher was portrayed as the Satan
> himself.
>
> Tuomo
I have never thought of Schumacher as Satan. He is fantastic to watch in
the wet, his car control is breath-taking. My problem with him is that
he is two faced. After Panis had his big accident Schumacher appeared
concerned and on the podium ceremony was subdued. Then in Jerez as in
Australia a few years earlier he appeared to be totaly unconcerned that
he had put another drivers life in danger.
If he had lost the championship in 97 without trying to put JV out I
would have been totaly on his side.
Ian Thomas
5168665354674 wrote:
>
> On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:24:12 -0800, Paul Sobejko
> <psob...@engr.uvic.ca> wrote:
>
> >>> cause you say so? Hes also the only driver who had to resort to
> >>> cheating to compete for a WC. Hill never resorted to cheating, and
> >>> hence had his 94 WC cheated away from him by that cheat Scum.
> >>
>
> can you elaborate on this for me?
I think he means that the stewards found fault with Schumachers
car/fueling rig etc and because Hill was the only one to gain Hill must
have cheated. Seems clear to me. :-)
Ian Parkinson
Neil wrote:
> I believe in the process he took out Nakano, and that this could have been
> avoided if Hill had not decided to overtake at any cost. I think this was a
> very rare, possibly unique incident for Hill, in which he showed that
> frustration had clearly got the better of him.
I'm afraid it's not exactly unique - Hill pulled a few somewhat hopeful
overtaking manoeuvers on Schumacher back in '94 (and got reasonably slammed
for the accident at Silverstone). But he does seem to have become less
overaggressive since then. It'll be interesting to see how he does in the
Jordan next year, where he should be up at the front again and racing for
podiums and wins.
Ian
Dallas Dahms
Let's look at the situation fairly;
In 1994 MS won the championship after having several points taken away and
also being banned for some of the races.
In 1995 there was just no question as to who was king of the ring
(Bennetton) - and with a new engine (Renault) too boot!
Now, during 1994 / 1995, where was Ferrari?
During 1996/7, there was suddenly a resurgence of Ferrari. Where was
Bennetton then?
What was the common denominator? Coincidence? I don't think so. I think it
came in a small package from Germany.
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to put the pieces together. Judging
from the threads here, it would seem as if National pride is the only
divider of opinion.
Dallas
M.Connolly
Mike Wells <mwe...@easyinternet.net> wrote:
>Nasos (A.M.Christodoulopoulos) wrote:
>
>Ecclestone is a former car racer who bought the Brabham F1 team in the
>late 70s and then sold it in the 80s. He hasn't shown any desire to
>reveal much about himself. He isn't a megalomaniac, in fact he keeps
>quite a low profile. On top of that his wife owns 80% of the financial
>assets he controls. She's the rich one.
She deserves it.
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
Charles Bell
When asked about the fact that Ferrari are always downplaying their
chances Patrick Head said:
"Bollocks. If Michael Schumacher is on the grid, there's always a
realistic chance he's going to win the race"
Charles Bell
> i have always had my favourites. i too have followed racing for
> thirty years (although never "off"). schmacker was a favourite
> until jerez. schmacker is the only favourite that i have ever
> abandoned. stewart, lauda, and prost were men of honour. senna
> was closer to schmacker.
>
Yet Prost punted Senna off.
I know Senna did it to Prost first but if you want to attempt the moral
high ground then this is no defence.
So many here are keen to lambast Schumacher while saying that Senna was
the greatest. If anything other than his supreme talent can be
attributed to Senna, it is the introduction of intimidation and
'knocking off' to F1. Look at the Prost incidents and also the vain
attempts to intimdate Schumacher (when Shumacher was a rookie) by
driving at him. Look at the Eddie Irvine punching incident when Irvine
had the 'cheek' to unlap himself when Senna was cruising to the end of a
race.
Senna was a great driver but people who flame Schumacher while defending
Senna obviously have their heads in the sand.
Chazz
Peter Scoular
Dallas Dahms <dda...@nbs.co.za> writes
--
Peter :-) Hill is the man - Keep the faith.
Jon Petersson
Dallas Dahms skrev i meddelandet <6an5dl$o8m$1...@hermes.is.co.za>...
>Now, during 1994 / 1995, where was Ferrari?
In 1994 they were 47 points behind Williams.
In 1995 they were 39 points behind Williams.
>During 1996/7, there was suddenly a resurgence of Ferrari.
Yup, in 1996 they were 105 points behind Williams. What an amazing recovery!
;-)
(conveniently forgetting that they got as close as 21 points behind Williams
in 1997)
---
Jon Petersson Support Sarah-K and the rasf1 cars!
ban...@bigfoot.com | http://www.sarah.org/sarah/rasf1/
http://user.tninet.se/~rdv654m/Jon.html | user:rasf1 password:gogirl
Neil
Ian Parkinson wrote in message <34CF14B3...@sable.ox.ac.uk>...
That would be in '95, and to be fair these were more driver errors, than
perhaps the Nakano incident where Hill appeared to show little consideration
of the consequences.
IMO I could understand Hill being slammed more for the incident in Monza,
where it was more apparently a mistake. The Silverstone incident IMO was
more of a joint effort. Schumacher left the door wide open and then closed
it sharply, I am not saying that it wasn't Hill's fault, nor that he was
mainly to blame, but Schumacher should bear some of the blame for that too.
Later in the race Hill's and Schumacher's team-mates performed an almost
identical manoeuvre - successfully, because they *both* gave each other
room.
Regards...
Neil
--
"Don't let Krusty's death get you down boy. People die all the time.
Just like that! *snap*. Why, you could wake up dead tomorrow."
Mark J. Frusciante
Charles Bell <cee...@pp.hw.ac.uk> wrote:
->When asked about the fact that Ferrari are always downplaying their
->chances Patrick Head said:
->"Bollocks. If Michael Schumacher is on the grid, there's always a
->realistic chance he's going to win the race"
And if anyone knows bollocks, it's Patrick Head.
Mark
http://www.pipeline.com/~opus/racing.htm
Montreal '97 photos at .../~opus/picslist.htm
Irwin Sabath
"Mr. Hot Pants" <vis...@beep.sisna.chile.con.carne.com> wrote:
>5168665354674 wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:31:43 -0800, Michael Fuhrmann
>> <Michael_...@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> >>I admire Michael Schumacher and consider him a great F1 driver.
>>
>> well we all have our own sense of values i suppose.
>
>This I cannot let slide. We do not lack "values" because we see
>Schumacher in a different light. Although not nearly as bad, you
>occasionally remind me of that vile Dr. Laura Schlessinger.<
They probably purchase their pedestals from a common supplier.
>(Let's hear a cheer from all who hate Dr. Laura!)<
Hate's too strong a word, but here's a lower case cheer:
hip-hip-hooray.
--
Irwin
t.i.n.s.t.a.a.f.l.
(Helping victims of conventional wisdom)
Irwin Sabath
417...@56583.9668 (5168665354674) wrote:
[snip]
>
>so now you call me vile......
>
>i'm not here for this, that's for sure.
>
>i think you just made the decision for me.
>
>bye bye.<
Meaning?
Graham Shevlin
"Volker Herminghaus" <postm...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Agreed, but he also deliberately tried to punt another
>> driver off the track. That sort of behavior can't be
>> tolerated at any level of the sport, let alone in F1.
>
>You are absolutely right! Let's disqualify Hill for deliberately trying to
>punt Nakano off the track.
He did get a suspended ban, which is usually all the FIA seems willing
to dish out most of the time...
>Let's also get rid of Irvine and Alesi for their various attempts in recent
>years, along with Ralf Schumacher. Oh, and Villeneuve, of course, for Suzuka
>1997 (coming out of the pit lane trying to hit MS). And let's take away one
>WC title of Prost and Senna.
I would agree with most of these suggestions, except that Irvine did
serve a 3 race ban in 1995, which I cannot explain, except perhaps
that Eddie did not grovel enough to the FIA (he actually had the cheek
to appeal!).
The 1990 Senna punt of Prost is the one I wished the FIA had really
come down hard on. It was watched by millions of people, and the
message transmitted of "win by punting your rival" was an unpleasant
and uncomfortable one.
>
>Now that I've insulted almost everyone, I have nowhere to hide. What fun :-)
The core problem is that drivers can always attempt to punt rivals off
the track in F1, either by devious practice (the so-called
'professional tap') or by more blatant methods. However, the FIA never
takes such incidents seriously unless it looks awful on TV, or unless
people are injured or killed. If Prost's Ferrari had cartwheeled into
the crowd in 1990 after being hit by Senna, you can bet a lot of $$$
that the FIA would have hit him with every conceivable sanction.
Suspended bans and fines are a way of saying that you don't take
incidents seriously. Drivers are competitors. The only effective
punishment is to deny them the opportunity to compete.
Schumacher's individual problem (which he has always had, but which
dramatically surfaced as a result of the 1997 incident with
Villeneuve) is that his competitive instincts are so dominant that he
is sometimes unable (a) to concede defeat on-track without resorting
to sharp practice, and (b) to understand that his world-view is almost
unique. Hence his initial surprise at the reaction to his collision
with Villeneuve. His general mind-set places him so far apart from you
and I that a lot of viewers of F1 are going to have extreme difficulty
in being positive about some of his driving tactics and psychology.
To be fair, Ayrton Senna had the same problem.
Graham Shevlin
E-Mail: Graham_...@bigfoot.com
"Pessimist: An optimist in full possession of the facts"
Anon
Please replace . by _ in above E-Mail name to reply
Tracy Roketta
On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:59:23 GMT, 417...@56583.9668
(5168665354674) wrote:
>>> Although not nearly as bad, you
>>>occasionally remind me of that vile Dr. Laura Schlessinger.
>>>(Let's hear a cheer from all who hate Dr. Laura!)
>
>so now you call me vile......
>
>i'm not here for this, that's for sure.
>
>i think you just made the decision for me.
>
>bye bye.
Oh please...don't tease us!!!
--
Tracy
http://www-fhs.mcmaster.ca/biomed/staff/tracyshp.htm
"I assure you Murray, as we enter the pit-lane we think 'I hope
Murray isn't talking about me now'."
Martin Brundle, Brazilian Grand Prix, 1997
Chris Ward
Michael Fuhrmann of {}
posted this to rec.autos.sport.f1 on Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:31:43 -0800
' I cannot help but notice all the Schumacher bashing going on in this
' newsgroup. He's the best F1 driver on the circuit right now and
' should be given credit for this and not bashed so much.
Schumacher himself started it.
' No he didn't
Yes he did, he bashed Villenuve
:-)
Chris
SOUNDCHSER
I'm with you brother. I've been following F1 for a long time. There is no other
driver in the sport right now that is on Shoes level. As far as I'm concerned
he is the only F1 driver in the sport. The rest are just filler.
I would also like to state that I think it is deplorable what happened to
Michael in Jerez. For JV to run him off the track like that and then for the
press and everyone else to blame MS as the culprit... I just don't know what to
say. We all saw the footage. JV clearly snuck up the inside and clouted Michael
right off the track.
mark jeangerard
First Tracks Racing
Geoff Schuler
On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:59:23 GMT, 417...@56583.9668
(5168665354674) wrote:
>On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:38:12 -0800, "Mr. Hot Pants"
><vis...@beep.sisna.chile.con.carne.com> wrote:
>>> Although not nearly as bad, you
>>>occasionally remind me of that vile Dr. Laura Schlessinger.
>>>(Let's hear a cheer from all who hate Dr. Laura!)
>
>so now you call me vile......
Read it again... unless your real name is Dr. Laura Schlessinger (who
is she anyway?) you weren't called vile.
Geoff Schuler
----------------------------------------------------------
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Bruce Kennewell
Yeah....I'm afraid that, after many months of reviewing video tape over
and over and over and over and over again ad nauseum etcetera I have to
agree with this observation.
In frames 261 through 274 there is DEFINITELY a movement of the front
wheels of the JV vehicle in a leftwards (i.e., towards the MS vehicle)
direction.
Anyone with an ounce of common sense would understand that the situation
at this bend of the Jerez circuit corresponds exactly to the road rules
stipulated for round-abouts, viz:-
"The vehicle on the inside, that is, closest to the centre of the
round-about, shall not deviate from its path should a vehicle on the
outside, that is, further away from the centre of the round-about,
attempt to go around the round-about at the same time, and in close
proximity to, the vehicle of the first part, that is, the one on the
inside, or closest to the centre of the round-about".
Therefore, I pronounce Jules Verne.....oops, that's Jaque Villeneuve....
GUILTY of turning in the first degree....and a few more degrees as
well....probably about 11 degrees from the straight-ahead position, and
sentence him to a life of penal servitude in the coloni........hang
about, Canada hasn't got any colonies. Allright, a life of penal
servitude in Quebec.....a colony of Her Britannic Majesty's Empire.
Court is adjourned.
--
Bruce.
(At home)
Irwin Sabath
417...@56583.9668 (5168665354674) wrote:
>On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:09:02 GMT, ins...@airmail.net (Irwin
>Sabath) wrote:
>
>>>>so now you call me vile......
>>>>
>>>>i'm not here for this, that's for sure.
>>>>
>>>>i think you just made the decision for me.
>>>>
>>>>bye bye.<
>
>>>Meaning?
>
>it means that i see no reason to discourse with someone who sees
>everything i write in it's worst possible interpretation.<
Oh. I thought you were saying bye bye to rasf1 -- again.
>
[lengthy explication snipped]
>
>i tried talking intelligently with him now i intend to ignore him
>*for the most part*.... well since you asked. and remember YOU
>asked.<
That I did.
Irwin Sabath
gsch...@REMOVE.logicworld.com.au (Geoff Schuler) wrote:
>On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:59:23 GMT, 417...@56583.9668
>(5168665354674) wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:38:12 -0800, "Mr. Hot Pants"
>><vis...@beep.sisna.chile.con.carne.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Although not nearly as bad, you
>>>>occasionally remind me of that vile Dr. Laura Schlessinger.
>>>>(Let's hear a cheer from all who hate Dr. Laura!)
>>
>>so now you call me vile......
>
>Read it again... unless your real name is Dr. Laura Schlessinger (who
>is she anyway?)<
Radio pop psychologist.
Nationally syndicated with huge listening audience.
Has a web site (don't waste your time).
> you weren't called vile.<
So, you can read English also.
Cheek Sr.
Let us see your fishing licence,please.
Doc
--
Fredrik B. Knutsen MD !!please remove "NoSpam" when replying!!
Director,
Cheek Racing Cars
Fax: 47 69 19 02 55
Mobile: 47 90 78 70 32
E-Mail: kare...@sn.no
http://home.sn.no/~kareknut/
SOUNDCHSER
It's called a joke Doc. It's a funny idea I had and thought I'd pass it on. One
of the proper responses would be to chuckle. An even better one would be like
Bruce's. Really drive that sucker home, add a little shebang!
If I were fishing I would have said something like, "Hill is a Ninny." or
posted a binary of me in my favorite shirt sitting near Faux-President Clinton.
If 'Let us see your fishing licence,please.
Doc' was a joke please disregard the previous explaination.
Irwin Sabath
41a...@5b583.9cc8 (5a6665354674) wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:35:35 GMT, ins...@airmail.net (Irwin
>Sabath) wrote:
>
>>>Oh. I thought you were saying bye bye to rasf1 -- again.
>
>wishful thinking?
>
>BTW i never did specify a time period last time.<
Good old CYA, huh. Thought you said after the season.
JFGary
SOUNDCHSER
Well... actually I am using the AOL reader. They won't let me use Outlook and
the free public Usenet servers don't let you post. So my messages are sans
modern formating. What the hell. I'm driving a 1976 car eh?
Rachael is doing quite well now. We are all over the initial shock. Just have
to ride it out.
I haven't been to the BHO page in a couple of days. Any new rides up yet? I'm
in the van at the drop of a hat. No new snow around here and I'm getting tired
of racing. I need to free ride. Soft boots. Not so much edge. A bike ride would
do the trick.
Hey. This is a waist of good conversation. Meet me in the FTP.
GP2 League - authcode 27/f1
*
Bruce Kennewell
(snip)
I'm driving a 1976 car eh?
True, Mark....but such a *desirable* 1976 car, mate!!
After all, I'm driving a 1966 model so I am ten more years out of
fashion than you!! :-)
--
Bruce.
(At home)
Fox
In article <34CF7F...@jpmorgan.com>, Ian Thomas
<thoma...@jpmorgan.com> writes
>Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Peter Scoular wrote:
>>
>> > Tuomo you have surpised me, I would have thought that this bigoted style
>> > of post was beneath you.
>> > regards
>> > --
>> > Peter Hill is the man - Keep the faith.
>>
>> Ok, maybe I went too far. I was just getting really pissed by - surprise,
>> surprise - Schumacher bashing. I spent some time working in London summer
>> '95, and it blew my mind how Schumacher was portrayed as the Satan
>> himself.
>>
>> Tuomo
>
>I have never thought of Schumacher as Satan. He is fantastic to watch in
>the wet, his car control is breath-taking. My problem with him is that
>he is two faced. After Panis had his big accident Schumacher appeared
>concerned and on the podium ceremony was subdued. Then in Jerez as in
>Australia a few years earlier he appeared to be totaly unconcerned that
>he had put another drivers life in danger.
>
>If he had lost the championship in 97 without trying to put JV out I
>would have been totaly on his side.
>
I doubt JV was in any danger and anyway I believe MS's actions were
instinctive and sphere of the moment!
--
FOX
"I want to fly like a bum.. bum.. bumble-bee" - The Wannadies
"This machine will not communicate, these
thoughts and the strain I am under" - Radiohead
Fox
In article <34d9b505...@news.alberni.net>, 5168665354674
<417...@56583.9668> writes
>On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:09:02 GMT, ins...@airmail.net (Irwin
>Sabath) wrote:
>
>>>>so now you call me vile......
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>i think you just made the decision for me.
>>>>
>>>>bye bye.<
>
>>>Meaning?
>
>it means that i see no reason to discourse with someone who sees
>everything i write in it's worst possible interpretation.
>
>statements that have been mis-stated for that purpose.
>
>who distorts what i have said in order to make the classic
>strawman attacks.
>
>and then when he has exhausted all that he starts with name
>calling.
>
>i tried talking intelligently with him now i intend to ignore him
>*for the most part*.... well since you asked. and remember YOU
>asked.
>
>
You mean you are going to 'Kill-File' him????
Fox
In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.980127100502.16731C-
100...@gsbphd5.uchicago.edu>, "Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho"
<ptu...@gsbphd5.uchicago.edu> writes
>
>On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Peter Scoular wrote:
>
>> Tuomo you have surpised me, I would have thought that this bigoted style
>> of post was beneath you.
>> regards
>> --
>> Peter Hill is the man - Keep the faith.
>
>Ok, maybe I went too far. I was just getting really pissed by - surprise,
>surprise - Schumacher bashing. I spent some time working in London summer
>'95, and it blew my mind how Schumacher was portrayed as the Satan
>himself.
>
> Tuomo
>
(especially The Sun) made quite a few racist comments about Germany,
lookily not all us Brits are patriotic facists!!
Fox
In article <6al3ma$251$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>, Paul Martin <paul.martin@nuffie
ld.ox.ox.ac.ac.uk.uk> writes
>
>Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho wrote in message ...
>>Ok, maybe I went too far. I was just getting really pissed by -
>surprise,
>>surprise - Schumacher bashing. I spent some time working in
>London summer
>>'95, and it blew my mind how Schumacher was portrayed as the
>Satan
>>himself.
>
>
>even in this country) - but it was a very temporary thing.
>Certainly *until Jerez* there wasn't any discernable
>pro-Villeneuve or anti-Schumacher bias in the UK press.
>
>
>
I hate to disagree, but I will. There was always a slight bias towards
JV in the press and constant references to the old Hill and Schumacher
inidents.
Fox
In article <34CDC73E...@home.com>, Les Norton <lesn...@home.com>
writes
>Tuomo,
>maybe that has something to do with an Austrian nut case they used to
>call "Adolf".
>Or, maybe with superior German engineering in many cases, you'll never
>know. ;-).
>I think it's due to the fact that we see Germans - in general - void of
>emotions, and trying to hard to get it right, true or false, but its
>just the way they come across, maybe its just the accent. I have a few
>German friends, once you know them, they are great fun, honestly, this
>ng needs to loosen up a little, it's not a High Court, just a fun ng.
>Sometimes we seem to loose sight of this fact. We are not the actors,
>only the audience of f1.
>Les
>
He is spot on, to like a German personality is almost a crime here in
the UK. I too have a few friends in Germany and they don't come across
as arrogant or anything, funny blokes actually!
I would also like to point out that Schuey is only one of the few
drivers who actually look happy when they're stood on the podium.
Remember 1992 and 1993 especially with Schuey jumping with joy even on
the 3rd place!!! You don't see that often!!
SOUNDCHSER
Yes Bruce, but if I'm not mistaken your '66 is an open top British classic. My
**desirable** '76 is a 2L passenger bus by VW. I would describe it as *road
worthy* or *practicle*... *tough*.
So *I* am more out of fashion than you! By ten years none the less. ;-p
mark
Matthew D. Sullivan
Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho (ptu...@gsbphd4.uchicago.edu) wrote:
: I've been hanging around here for years now, and since 1994, Schumacher
: bashing has originated from a certain island where they won't like
: Germans. Not that the man himself has made it any easier for himslef, but
: that's where it originated from.
: Tuomo
Newfoundland? Prince Edward Island? Vancouver Island? Baffin Island?
-Matt
Cheek Sr.
My request for your fishing licence was entirely serious.Fishing without
one is an offence.
Jamie Dyer
>>Australia a few years earlier he appeared to be totaly unconcerned that
>>he had put another drivers life in danger.
>>
>
>instinctive and sphere of the moment!
Why do you think two F1 cars crashing together isn't dangerous?
JamieD.
Jamie Dyer
On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Spider wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:36:22 GMT,
>gsch...@REMOVE.logicworld.com.au (Geoff Schuler) wrote:
>
>>>>>> Although not nearly as bad, you
>>>>>>occasionally remind me of that vile Dr. Laura Schlessinger.
>>>>>>(Let's hear a cheer from all who hate Dr. Laura!)
>>>>
>>>
>
>geoff, if you concentrate really hard i am sure you will grasp
>the inference. pay particular attention to the context of the
>words "not nearly as bad".
>
>if that fails you then look up pants own response to this message
>where you will see he doesn't deny the OBVIOUS inference.
>
>again, there are no absolutes.
Whereas on Tuesday, Spider wrote:
> try taking what i say at face value. the english language is
> quite precise. don't substitute words in my posts. read what is
> really there. see if you can make seeming inconsistencies fit
> instead of looking for ones that aren't even there.
Does anyone else see an inconsistancy here?
JamieD.
JFGary
Mr. Hot Pants
5a6665354674 wrote:
>
> On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:35:35 GMT, ins...@airmail.net (Irwin
> Sabath) wrote:
>
> >>Oh. I thought you were saying bye bye to rasf1 -- again.
>
> wishful thinking?
>
> BTW i never did specify a time period last time.
Considering the melodrama of the message and the fact that you posted it
here at least 3 times, one would have assumed that your abscence would
last for more than a month.
Mr. Hot Pants
jomurphy
GET A SENCE OF HUMOR?????
xxxxxxxx wrote in message <350a638d....@news.alberni.net>...
>On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:31:53 -0000, "jomurphy"
><jomu...@tinet.ie> wrote:
>
>>>Schumacher arrived by spaceship everyone else arrived by bus.The only
thing
>>>Schumacher did wrong was to admit he made a mistake
>
>are you saying that schmacker is a space cadet?
>
>if he is so innocent then why all the unpopularity?.
Bruce Kennewell
Sorry....I was confusing it for the 2-seater!
But a 76 VW Kombi is a good thing...........as a hippy in the last 60s I
used to do many miles in one of those machines. Used to do a lot of
other things, too! :-)
--
Bruce
(at work)
"Laziness is nothing more than the habit of resting before you get
tired."
(Jules Renard)
Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho
On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Fox wrote:
> Same in 1996 in the Euro 96 footy championships, the tabloid papers
> (especially The Sun) made quite a few racist comments about Germany,
> lookily not all us Brits are patriotic facists!!
Well, for sports involving *national* teams, such attitudes are perhaps
more justifiable. In F1, it's more like not supporting Liverpool, 'cause
they have foreign players.
Tuomo
Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho
On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Cheek Sr. wrote:
> My request for your fishing licence was entirely serious.Fishing without
> one is an offence.
> Doc
Who has the right to inspect licences in Norway?
Tuomo
Mr. Hot Pants
Hmmm... another "fine distinction", Spidey?
--------
| || |
| || |
| || |
| || |
-- --
Honk snort moo beep
SOUNDCHSER
Ahh... Mescaline.
:-)
I know. I was just playing the *yours is classic* game.
Yours is *more* *classic* you know...
mark
--
Les Norton
Ian,
I honestly don't believe JV was in any danger at that point of contact
..at about 20m/h
A different case with Senna taking Prost and his Ferrari out in Japan
(the so called pay back for 1989), now this was extremly dangerous, not
like 1989 with Prost taking Senna out at the chicane, another lower
speed take - out.
Happy motoring
Les Norton
Ian Thomas wrote:
> snip.... Then in Jerez as in
> Australia a few years earlier he appeared to be totaly unconcerned
> that
> he had put another drivers life in danger.
>
> If he had lost the championship in 97 without trying to put JV out I
> would have been totaly on his side. snip.