Drivers that are gay
Tiago Esteves
Ive been doing some research and I have discovered that Michael Schumacher is
Bissexual
Thats right!I saw him in a Bar, in Monaco, late at night kissing a French boy in the mouth!
Its true! I was and I am shocked with what I saw!
Tiago
Damjan
Exectly. I saw him in the bar kissing black guy in Botswana, Gaborone.
They were making up just as I was getting a drink.
The black guy was appereantly..... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So tell me, you've done some research and then discovered that he is bi.
Or did you see him in the bar and then concluded that he is bi.
Or did you do some research, found out he is bi, and then as a proof of
that saw him in the bar with the French guy (who else:)).
Or are you just a liar, lacking some brain. And as a result of that
can't put a "logical" lie together???
Damjan
Damjan
But for a moment forget this nonsense, and let me ask you a F1 related
question. (which I ask only due to lack of anything else:))
Has there ever been any F1-gay drivers??? (if the answer is no, and I
think it is, it sure would be nice for stereotyping :) But then if there
were women F1 drivers, why not gays. Also was there ever a black driver
(or maybe Indian).
While these questions are perhaps racial, I do not mean to put down
either gays, or blacks, or black gays for that matter. So ABSOLUTELY NO
FLAMMING RE: RACIS!!!
Damjan
Tracy Roketta
> Ive been doing some research and I have discovered that Michael Schumacher is
> Bissexual
> Thats right!I saw him in a Bar, in Monaco, late at night kissing a French boy in the mouth!
> Its true! I was and I am shocked with what I saw!
No, no, no!!! Remember that earlier posting from someone looking for
nude photos of F1 drivers...and someone nominated that as the weirdest
posting to this newsgroup...well, this one just topped it!!!
Tracy
Randal Dean
In <58fivp$n...@duke.telepac.pt> Tiago Esteves
<nop0...@mail.telepac.pt> writes:
>
>Ive been doing some research and I have discovered that Michael
Schumacher is
>Bissexual
>Thats right!I saw him in a Bar, in Monaco, late at night kissing a
French boy in the mouth!
>Its true! I was and I am shocked with what I saw!
>
>
I guess all you that want nude photos of F1 drivers now know where you
can get them...
Kidding, of course--- this is another candidate for ridiculous post of
the year. Tell me, Tiago, what prompted your "research"?
Ross Clement
Tiago Esteves (nop0...@mail.telepac.pt) wrote:
: Ive been doing some research and I have discovered that Michael Schumacher is
: Bissexual
: Thats right!I saw him in a Bar, in Monaco, late at night kissing a French boy in the mouth!
: Its true! I was and I am shocked with what I saw!
(i) What are you doing in Portugal if you are French
(ii) Also, you forgot to pinch yourself just to make sure before posting.
Cheers,
Ross-c
Homme Fatal
>: Ive been doing some research and I have discovered that Michael Schumacher is
>: Bissexual
>: Thats right!I saw him in a Bar, in Monaco, late at night kissing a French boy in the mouth!
>: Its true! I was and I am shocked with what I saw!
You wish the boy could be you and he would pay you 21 million for
doing just that. Maybe in your dreams!
Guiness (Genius)
Ross Clement <cle...@westminster.ac.uk> wrote in article
<58gujd$1...@badger.wmin.ac.uk>...
> Tiago Esteves (nop0...@mail.telepac.pt) wrote:
> : Ive been doing some research and I have discovered that Michael
Schumacher is
> : Bissexual
> : Thats right!I saw him in a Bar, in Monaco, late at night kissing a
French boy in the mouth!
I detest Schumacher myself and I'd be willing to spread any rumours etc
about him, but this is just damn low!
> : Its true! I was and I am shocked with what I saw!
>
> (i) What are you doing in Portugal if you are French
On holiday!(?)
--
Guiness (Genius)
********************************************
Those who turn a blind eye to evil are
evil themselves.
********************************************
Anders Nielsen
Tiago Esteves wrote:
> Ive been doing some research and I have discovered that Michael Schumacher is
> Bissexual
> Thats right!I saw him in a Bar, in Monaco, late at night kissing a French boy in the mouth!
And so what!
/rap
Don Anderson
I would suggest that the rest of the field start kissing French boys.
SOMETHING has got to make Schumi faster than the rest of the field!!!
The Force
Hey There
Doesn't Michael have a wife ?!?!?
But ...... It makes good to have little ..........
Tiago Esteves <nop0...@mail.telepac.pt> kirjoitti artikkelissa
<58fivp$n...@duke.telepac.pt>...
RaGzZ
Nice comeback ;-)
Andrew Robinson
> Ive been doing some research and I have discovered that Michael
> Schumacher is Bissexual
> Thats right!I saw him in a Bar, in Monaco, late at night kissing a
> French boy in the mouth!
> Its true! I was and I am shocked with what I saw!
Damn. I turned down the offer to be Michael Schumacher's lawyer, this
would have set me up nicely.
"Doing some research...in a bar in Monaco". Doesn't hang together does
it?
I think we had a nomination for the Wierdest Post of 1996. I nominate
this for the Worst.
--
My REPLY TO: address has been changed to prevent automatic spamming.
For replies, please use the address below.
AJ Robinson - http://www.jjas.demon.co.uk/ ajrob...@jjas.demon.co.uk
Irwin Sabath
Andrew Robinson <ann...@spam.posters> wrote:
>> Ive been doing some research and I have discovered that Michael
>> Schumacher is Bissexual
>> Thats right!I saw him in a Bar, in Monaco, late at night kissing a
>> French boy in the mouth!
>> Its true! I was and I am shocked with what I saw!
> Damn. I turned down the offer to be Michael Schumacher's lawyer, this
>would have set me up nicely.
> "Doing some research...in a bar in Monaco". Doesn't hang together does
>it?
> I think we had a nomination for the Wierdest Post of 1996. I nominate
>this for the Worst.<
Naw. What about the one last summer re abusing Senna's corpse?
>--
--
Irwin
t.i.n.s.t.a.a.f.l.
Seppi97
Wasn't Mike Beuttler gay? I believe he died of AIDS in San Francisco in
the late 1980's. Yes, I know that AIDS+SF != gay.
Randy Malbone
Seppi97 (sep...@aol.com) wrote:
: Wasn't Mike Beuttler gay? I believe he died of AIDS in San Francisco in
: the late 1980's. Yes, I know that AIDS+SF != gay.
Well, in Alan Henry's book "Formula One: Driver by Driver", he's
referred to by that once-common code phrase "confirmed bachelor",
so I guess he was, at least, widely thought to have been gay.
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Randy Malbone | Opinions above are mine. You
University of Massachusetts/Boston | don't think I'd spend this much
rma...@cs.umb.edu | time promoting theirs, do you?
Ross Clement
Randy Malbone (rma...@cs.umb.edu) wrote:
: Seppi97 (sep...@aol.com) wrote:
: : Wasn't Mike Beuttler gay? I believe he died of AIDS in San Francisco in
: : the late 1980's. Yes, I know that AIDS+SF != gay.
: Well, in Alan Henry's book "Formula One: Driver by Driver", he's
: referred to by that once-common code phrase "confirmed bachelor",
: so I guess he was, at least, widely thought to have been gay.
Well, I've certainly heard that term applied to a number of people
who aren't gay. Converting it to 90s-speak, it can also mean
"commitmentaphobic" :-)
Cheers,
Ross-c
Tracy Roketta
> Wasn't Mike Beuttler gay? I believe he died of AIDS in San Francisco in
> the late 1980's. Yes, I know that AIDS+SF != gay.
I think that's just a little too much generalization there. Just because
someone has AIDS and lives in San Francisco, doesn't necessarily mean
they are gay. It's entirely possible that, if he did die of AIDS (which
you are not 100% sure of), that he was infected via a blood transfusion - or
engaged in sex with an infected female. I don't think you should try to
make sweeping statements like that unless you are sure of what you speak.
Tracy
Pete Fenelon
: : the late 1980's. Yes, I know that AIDS+SF != gay.
: Well, in Alan Henry's book "Formula One: Driver by Driver", he's
: referred to by that once-common code phrase "confirmed bachelor",
: so I guess he was, at least, widely thought to have been gay.
Does it matter? Yes, if you piece together what was written about Beuttler
it does tend point to him having been gay, but the fact remains he was
a promising racing driver doing a good job in equipment which he had to
run on a limited budget, and I doubt we ever saw his true level of
competitiveness in F1.
To me, it doesn't matter whether a driver's black, white, yellow, gay,
straight, male, female or a three-legged purple omnisexual from Alpha
Centauri, it's what they do with the equipment available to them that
matters.
Merry Christmas.
pete
--
Pete Fenelon, 39 Broadway, Fulford, York, YO1 4JP, UK Tel.: +44 1904 670334
pete.f...@zetnet.co.uk "I could tell you, but only at consultancy rates"
Pete Fenelon
Randy Malbone (rma...@cs.umb.edu) wrote:
: Seppi97 (sep...@aol.com) wrote:
: : Wasn't Mike Beuttler gay? I believe he died of AIDS in San Francisco in
: : the late 1980's. Yes, I know that AIDS+SF != gay.
: Well, in Alan Henry's book "Formula One: Driver by Driver", he's
: referred to by that once-common code phrase "confirmed bachelor",
: so I guess he was, at least, widely thought to have been gay.
Oh. And if people *are* looking for racing drivers who were gay, then
Raymond Mays (of Cordon Bleu/Cordon Rouge Bugatti, Villiers Supercharge,
White Riley, ERA and BRM fame) had a well-known weakness for blonde
young men. Again, what that has to do with his ability as a driver and team
principal I don't know. :)
pete (straight :))
Peter Tilmanis
>
>> Wasn't Mike Beuttler gay? I believe he died of AIDS in San Francisco in
>> the late 1980's. Yes, I know that AIDS+SF != gay.
>
>I think that's just a little too much generalization there. Just because
>someone has AIDS and lives in San Francisco, doesn't necessarily mean
>they are gay.
It's not quite obvious to most non-computer people, but != is the
symbol for (is not equal to) in the C and C++ programming languages.
James A. Taylor
> : : Wasn't Mike Beuttler gay? I believe he died of AIDS in San Francisco in
> : : the late 1980's. Yes, I know that AIDS+SF != gay.
>
> : referred to by that once-common code phrase "confirmed bachelor",
> : so I guess he was, at least, widely thought to have been gay.
>
> it does tend point to him having been gay, but the fact remains he was
> a promising racing driver doing a good job in equipment which he had to
> run on a limited budget, and I doubt we ever saw his true level of
> competitiveness in F1.
>
> To me, it doesn't matter whether a driver's black, white, yellow, gay,
> straight, male, female or a three-legged purple omnisexual from Alpha
> Centauri, it's what they do with the equipment available to them that
> matters.
>
> Merry Christmas.
> pete
> Pete Fenelon, 39 Broadway, Fulford, York, YO1 4JP, UK Tel.: +44 1904 670334
> pete.f...@zetnet.co.uk "I could tell you, but only at consultancy rates"
Please don't for a minute equate being Black or White with being Gay.
Peoples colors are a result of genetice, homosexuality is a matter of
choice.
MAJOR difference. especially when we're talking about rights (but
that's a different conversation).
It's kinda like saying a driver who practices beastiallity is just like
any other driver.
James
Sandy Morton
pete.f...@zetnet.co.uk (Pete Fenelon) wrote:
> To me, it doesn't matter whether a driver's black, white, yellow, gay,
> straight, male, female or a three-legged purple omnisexual from Alpha
> Centauri, it's what they do with the equipment available to them that
> matters.
Most of this sounds reasonable but I would like to suggest that
three-legged could give someone/thing an unfair advantage?
Sandy Millport on the bicycle island
:-))))
John Paramore
On 21 Dec 1996, Seppi97 wrote:
> Wasn't Mike Beuttler gay? I believe he died of AIDS in San Francisco in
> the late 1980's. Yes, I know that AIDS+SF != gay.
Yeah?...So What! What might that ever have to do with the man's talent as
a driver or qualities as a human being?
If your life's built up on tiny minded trash like the above then please do
us all a favor...Post your slimy commentary on some other NG such as
alt.black.hole and get your jollies from the supermarket tabloids that so
closely parallel your interests.
JP
Damjan
driver any less if he is a gay or a black or a whatever. But it is
interesting. For me at least. Like how come there were no black F1
drivers. (known to me). And how come the % of females in F1 is so small.
And is that connected to the fact that there were so few F1 gay drivers.
This is not a racial/sexual/whatever issue. For me it is little
interesting bits of life....
Damjan
Barry Dowdy
|#300| Mr Knowitall
>Please don't for a minute equate being Black or White with being Gay.
>Peoples colors are a result of genetice, homosexuality is a matter of
>choice.
Sorry Buttwipe....but most research say Homosexuality is genetic.....and far
from a matter of choice....as is Heterosexuality....we is what we is....
Me I could care less about a driver's color, sex, or sexuality, as long as they
race.....
-=<mr k>=-
Keith Meyer
James A. Taylor wrote:
>
> Please don't for a minute equate being Black or White with being Gay.
> Peoples colors are a result of genetice, homosexuality is a matter of
> choice.
>
> MAJOR difference. especially when we're talking about rights (but
> that's a different conversation).
>
> It's kinda like saying a driver who practices beastiallity is just like
> any other driver.
>
> James
Ignorance Alert!!!! Anyone else want to take this one? It's just too
easy....
Keith
James A. Taylor
Damjan wrote:
> But it is
> interesting. For me at least. Like how come there were no black F1
> drivers. (known to me). And how come the % of females in F1 is so small.
> And is that connected to the fact that there were so few F1 gay drivers.
> This is not a racial/sexual/whatever issue. For me it is little
> interesting bits of life....
>
> Damjan
Regarding Black drivers, it boils down to two key issues, Money and
racisim.
Blacks generally don't access the dollars that whites do (statistically)
and as a result, they don't avail themselves of these opportunities. It
is similar with other high-dollar sports (Tennis, flying, gymnastics,
ballet, etc)
When a black does take advantage of opportunities, they've proven to
posses the same potential as anyone (Tiger Woods, Pro Football,
Basketball).
in fact, in sports where the lack of money doesn't preclude a person
from competing on a world class level, blacks have excelled (boxing,
football, basketball.)
Black drivers have another hurdle in that racsim is still strong in
racing circles.
While we don't see many "sheet bubbas" we do see opptunities being
closed off to Blacks at many places (Stock cars being one area).
Blacks are no different than any other color regarding talent and
potential. The key is money and typically Blacks don't come from
communities that are as well endowed financially as white persons (in
the macro sense).
Not intending to start a flame war, just observing.
By the way, I am a black drving aspirant.
James A. Taylor
James A. Taylor
|#300| Mr Knowitall wrote:
>
> >Please don't for a minute equate being Black or White with being Gay.
> >Peoples colors are a result of genetice, homosexuality is a matter of
> >choice.
>
That's Mr. Buttwipe to you, rookie.
What research are you refering to, your TV?
I am constantly amazed by the level of reparte' in this newsgroup.
Your grip of the language is impressive, your preception of reality is
not.
We would all like to hear your comments on the current ditribe of the
Liberalist media but hey, we've only got a couple of MB's.
Anyway, when you get all grown up, and really want to make a
contribution to society, try using some bigger words and ideas.
I'm surprised your momma didn't tell you that one of the key signs of a
being a buttwipe is being intimately familiar with the terms...
James A. Taylor
Randal Dean
In <32C028...@mail.pacbell.com> "James A. Taylor"
Excuse me, Mr. Taylor, but I believe you mean "diatribe".
Now, can you spell "homophobe?"
Mike Fleming
In article <59pi57$i...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
pars...@ix.netcom.com(Randal "Randal Dean" writes:
A dislike or fear of things which are the same?
--
Mike (DF) Fleming MAG #79794 DoD #4446 OT #3 UKMC #9 FAB #10
Save the slug, save the slug, save the slug, save the slug
There's dolphin-free tuna and live traps for rats
And wood preservative must be edible by bats
Seppi97
Subject: Re: Drivers that are gay
From: John Paramore <wizp...@eskimo.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 08:08:20 GMT
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.96122...@eskimo.com>
Jeez, don't shoot the messenger, I didn't ask the question. Yes, I did
contribute
to the thread, but if you don't like the thread, critize the originator.
Nowhere in my response nor in the article that I followed up to implied
that there
was any correlation between being gay and any good or bad qualities
period!
I was mearly trying to anwser a question that was posted. It was in the
same
light as if someone had asked if there was ever an Eskimo to drive F1, a
female,
a Mormon, or someone from Dawsonville, Georgia.
I'm not sure why the question was asked, but I considered it a simple
question.
So I responded. Tracy Roketta, followed me up saying that *I don't
think you
should try to make sweeping statements like that unless you are sure of
what
you speak.* Tracy was at least nice with his/her response. But I then
ask if
there is a problem with the statement "Isn't Steve Young of the SF 49er's
Mormon?".
I don't seem to see a difference. Unfortunately, John Paramore, thinks
that
being gay is *trash* and *slimy*.
-js
P.S. My post got a response from several who knew of Mike Beuttler. They
posted
a little bit from his racing career. That was the hope of the post.
I never met him, never saw him race, only remember him from race results
from the
early 70's. I think that it is great that old F1 drivers can be
remembered.
Only after I decided to respond to this lame post did I look into my
references. I found
that MB died 12/29/88, 8 years ago this Sunday.
On 21 Dec 1996, Seppi97 wrote:
> Wasn't Mike Beuttler gay? I believe he died of AIDS in San Francisco in
> the late 1980's.
|#300| Mr Knowitall
>That's Mr. Buttwipe to you, rookie.
>
>What research are you refering to, your TV?
actually, Sonny, I would use multi-syllabic words, but with the tone of the
post I replied to, I have to assume you to be, either stupid, or a
pre-pubescent grade schooler.....
Let's drop the crap, and talk racing....
If you wanna delve into people's sex lives, go to some of the alt. groups....
gated in that direction.....
BTW, the studies I was refering to, were compiled by The Institute for Sexual
Research, at Indiana University....
-=<mr k>=-
Jeff Punch
Damjan wrote:
> .... I will not respect a
> driver any less if he is a gay or a black or a whatever. But it is
> interesting. For me at least.
And me too. I heard one rumor that the great Senna,
left an astonishing sum of money to a male Goodyear
engineer. I know Senna had a girlfriend, but wasn't
there speculation at the time when the specifics of
his will became public that his male friend was more
important to him than his girlfriend, who got little?
Jeff Punch
Irwin Sabath
Jeff Punch <jpu...@umich.edu> wrote:
Well, if there wasn't speculation then, there just might be now.
Thanks.
>
>Jeff Punch
--
Irwin
t.i.n.s.t.a.a.f.l.
mabortln
Maybe he owed more to the male Goodyear engineer for his
success than he ever owed his girlfriend.
carl...@aol.com
In article <5aabbg$1...@news.infoserve.net>, mabo...@unix.infoserve.net
(mabortln) writes:
>In article <32c5213d...@news.airmail.net>, ins...@airmail.net
(Irwin
>Sabath) says:
>>
>>Jeff Punch <jpu...@umich.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>Damjan wrote:
>>>> .... I will not respect a
>>>> driver any less if he is a gay or a black or a whatever. But it is
>>>> interesting. For me at least.
>>>
>>>And me too. I heard one rumor that the great Senna,
>>>left an astonishing sum of money to a male Goodyear
>>>engineer. I know Senna had a girlfriend, but wasn't
>>>there speculation at the time when the specifics of
>>>his will became public that his male friend was more
>>>important to him than his girlfriend, who got little?<
>>
>>Well, if there wasn't speculation then, there just might be now.
>>Thanks.
>>>
>>>Jeff Punch
>>
>>--
>>Irwin
>>
Never heard so much Bollocks
FORZA FERRARI
Gulliver
In article <5aabbg$1...@news.infoserve.net>,
mabo...@unix.infoserve.net (mabortln) wrote:
> In article <32c5213d...@news.airmail.net>, ins...@airmail.net (Irwin Sabath) says:
> >
> >Jeff Punch <jpu...@umich.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>And me too. I heard one rumor that the great Senna,
> >>left an astonishing sum of money to a male Goodyear
> >>engineer. I know Senna had a girlfriend, but wasn't
> >>there speculation at the time when the specifics of
> >>his will became public that his male friend was more
> >>important to him than his girlfriend, who got little?<
> >
> >Well, if there wasn't speculation then, there just might be now.
> >Thanks.
> Maybe he owed more to the male Goodyear engineer for his
> success than he ever owed his girlfriend.
The rumour was started by Nelson Piquet iirc, in the Brazilian edition of
Penthouse magazine. He also made some rude comments about Nigel Mansell's
wife. This must be taken with a large pinch of salt, because Piquet is a
great joker - even if some of his jokes do go way too far.
Let us examine the well known evidence.
Senna married before he ever came to Europe to race, I think when he was
about 19. He divorced his wife after only a few years and came to Europe
to race seriously.
During his early days in F1, Piquet alleged (in this article) that Senna
was gay. But from the moment he started getting real F1 success, Senna
always seemed to have a pretty girl with him. He had several medium term
relationships with some of these girls and nobody ever saw him get unusually
friendly with any men. Apart from Jo Ramirez (who is also Brazilian) on the
Mclaren staff with whom he did spend a lot of time and tended to hug after
a successful race. Nothing earth-shattering there, really.
Nothing concrete has ever surfaced to my knowledge to suggest that Senna was
gay. In one of his books, Nigel Mansell does refer to rumours about various
drivers girlfriends and "even boyfriends" but he does not name any names.
--
Angus Gulliver
an...@spuddy.mew.co.uk
Also at a.w.r.g...@herts.ac.uk
Question every piece of information that enters your mind...
...and it might grow bigger.
Maria C. Tome'
Gulliver <an...@spuddy.mew.co.uk> escreveu no artigo
<siSzy4DY...@spuddy.mew.co.uk>...
| In article <5aabbg$1...@news.infoserve.net>,
| mabo...@unix.infoserve.net (mabortln) wrote:
| > In article <32c5213d...@news.airmail.net>, ins...@airmail.net
(Irwin Sabath) says:
| > >
| > >Jeff Punch <jpu...@umich.edu> wrote:
| > >>
| > >>And me too. I heard one rumor that the great Senna,
| > >>left an astonishing sum of money to a male Goodyear
| > >>engineer. I know Senna had a girlfriend, but wasn't
| > >>there speculation at the time when the specifics of
| > >>his will became public that his male friend was more
| > >>important to him than his girlfriend, who got little?<
What was reported in the press was he didn't left a will, so his parents
got everything, acording to general brasilian law. This subject was raised
in relation with the claim by a brasilian woman that Senna was the father
of her little child, because if this was proved to be true, the child would
receive everything instead.
That claim was first made in 1993, when the child was yet to be born. I
remember Senna was asked about it during one of the italian races, Monza I
think, and even if he denied being the father, his answers were evasive, so
I thought then perhaps he wasn't 100% sure about it.
Recently, however, I've noticed in Globo on-line (
http://www.oglobo.com.br - 26/12/96 - esportes - Renato Maurício Prado) a
note I think means the case is closed. They don´t mention names, but I
suspect it refers to Senna. I'll try to translate:
"It was closed even before reaching the Court what could have turned to be
the most spectacular paternity process of Sport. The child's mother has
received R$ 1 million to not giving interviews and to give up puting an
action in Court, with the promise that, if paternity was confirmed by the
DNA test, her child would be immediately recognized and would became the
legitimate heir of a colossal fortune. The exame, however, didn´t confirm
the alleged paternity. Non-official version says the father wasn´t the very
famous sportsman, but a well-known tv soap actor instead."
| > >
| > >Well, if there wasn't speculation then, there just might be now.
| > >Thanks.
|
| > Maybe he owed more to the male Goodyear engineer for his
| > success than he ever owed his girlfriend.
|
| The rumour was started by Nelson Piquet iirc, in the Brazilian edition of
| Penthouse magazine. He also made some rude comments about Nigel Mansell's
| wife. This must be taken with a large pinch of salt, because Piquet is a
| great joker - even if some of his jokes do go way too far.
|
| Let us examine the well known evidence.
|
| Senna married before he ever came to Europe to race, I think when he was
| about 19. He divorced his wife after only a few years and came to Europe
| to race seriously.
|
| During his early days in F1, Piquet alleged (in this article) that Senna
| was gay. But from the moment he started getting real F1 success, Senna
| always seemed to have a pretty girl with him. He had several medium term
| relationships with some of these girls and nobody ever saw him get
unusually
| friendly with any men. Apart from Jo Ramirez (who is also Brazilian) on
the
In fact Jo Ramirez is Mexican, if that matters.
Andrew Robinson
Sad. Very sad. Do these people have a life?
--
My REPLY TO: address has been changed to prevent automatic spamming.
For e-mail replies, please cut out 'REMOVETHIS' at the end of the address.
AJ Robinson - http://www.jjas.demon.co.uk/ ajrob...@jjas.demon.co.uk
Jeff Salzmann
On Sat, 4 Jan 1997 19:15:13 +0000, Andrew Robinson
<ajrob...@jjas.demon.co.ukREMOVETHIS> wrote:
> Sad. Very sad. Do these people have a life?
Well put. Who gives a shit what the guy likes so long as he
can drive like a champ??
Sennaesque
RE: namesake - Tsk Tsk Tsk...No respect for the dead? PIQUET started the
rumor when his position was threatened as #1 in Brazil...same old story
different petty jealous bastard
Dillon Pyron
Speaking of those two and sex:
At one time, Senna was reported to have claimed to have slept with 30
women in one night. Piquet's response on hearing this was that at least
he knew what to do with a woman in bed.
Me? I don't care.
--
dillon pyron
dillon...@amd.com
PADI OWSI-54909 USPSA TY-26031
The next time an extradimensional being asks you if you are a god,
say yes.
Thomas Gmuer
Dillon Pyron <dillon...@amd.com> wrote:
> Speaking of those two and sex:
>
> At one time, Senna was reported to have claimed to have slept with 30
> women in one night. Piquet's response on hearing this was that at least
> he knew what to do with a woman in bed.
>
> Me? I don't care.
Did you don't care what to do with woman??? Senna always wanted to be
the best wherever he performed. Maybe the GP Drivers Association have
some internal statistics, where he just wanted to set another record in
the Groupie division?
Thomas
--
* Still 58 days to Melbourne! *
The standoff in Waco (Texas) ended after 58 days with a deadly fire that
killed about 80 Branch Davidians, including some children
Shane Lansky
On Mon, 23 Dec 1996 15:29:26 -0500, Damjan <qast...@djttd.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Wasn't Mike Beuttler gay? I believe he died of AIDS in San Francisco in
>> > the late 1980's. Yes, I know that AIDS+SF != gay.
>>
>> Yeah?...So What! What might that ever have to do with the man's talent as
>> a driver or qualities as a human being?
>>
>> If your life's built up on tiny minded trash like the above then please do
>> us all a favor...Post your slimy commentary on some other NG such as
>> alt.black.hole and get your jollies from the supermarket tabloids that so
>> closely parallel your interests.
>>
>To me, it does not matter if you are guy. I mean I will not respect a
>driver any less if he is a gay or a black or a whatever. But it is
>interesting. For me at least. Like how come there were no black F1
>drivers. (known to me). And how come the % of females in F1 is so small.
>And is that connected to the fact that there were so few F1 gay drivers.
>This is not a racial/sexual/whatever issue. For me it is little
>interesting bits of life....
>
As Murry Walker has said on T.V before a lot has to do with how big
your wallet is. Helps get your bum in an F1 car.
Shane Lansky
sh...@netspace.net.au
Hobart, Tasmania
Australia
Shane Lansky
On Fri, 10 Jan 1997 17:07:10 +0100, tg...@tinet.ch (Thomas Gmuer)
wrote:
>> Speaking of those two and sex:
>>
>> At one time, Senna was reported to have claimed to have slept with 30
>> women in one night. Piquet's response on hearing this was that at least
>> he knew what to do with a woman in bed.
>>
>> Me? I don't care.
>
>Did you don't care what to do with woman??? Senna always wanted to be
>the best wherever he performed. Maybe the GP Drivers Association have
>some internal statistics, where he just wanted to set another record in
>the Groupie division?
>
30 women in one night........uuuuuuummmmmm
I would have to guess that there were a lot of very unhappy groupies
leaving in the morning..:-)
Erwin Kooij
Personally, I don't think we will see black drivers, or drivers coming out
for their homosexuality in F1 for a long time to come. I don't think the
sponsers would like that very much, and I can't imagine team-managers
saying: "Well, then take your millions elsewhere!"
I'm afraid a lot of talent will be (and is being, maybe) wasted this way.
As for the female drivers: after the last woman in F1 (what's her name?
Drove for Brabham couple of years ago?) I doubt managers will be very
eager. She drove like three seconds slower than her teammate (who wasn't a
rising star either).
However, I think that it's great that in GP Manager 2 at least you CAN
hire women too.
Ed
Clifford Myhill
>>
>> At one time, Senna was reported to have claimed to have slept with 30
>> women in one night.
"Ayrton. There are 31 women waiting for you in your room!"
"It was hard race. I'm tired. Send one home."
Cliff Myhill
(with apologies to Mae West)
Randy Malbone
Erwin Kooij (Erwin...@phil.ruu.nl) wrote :
: Personally, I don't think we will see black drivers, or drivers coming out
: for their homosexuality in F1 for a long time to come. I don't think the
: sponsers would like that very much, and I can't imagine team-managers
: saying: "Well, then take your millions elsewhere!"
: I'm afraid a lot of talent will be (and is being, maybe) wasted this way.
: As for the female drivers: after the last woman in F1 (what's her name?
: Drove for Brabham couple of years ago?) I doubt managers will be very
: eager. She drove like three seconds slower than her teammate (who wasn't a
: rising star either).
Her name was G. Amati. She was admittedly about 3 seconds slower
than Brabham teammate Van De Poele, but her replacement, Damon Hill(!)
was also usually behind him as well, though not by as much.
Personally, I expect that a female driver would be very much desired
by a cash-strapped back-of-the-grid team. I'm sure that there must be
some female drivers out there as good as the current male rent-
a-drivers, and I suspect that a 20th place car driven by a women would
generate FAR more media attention and sponsor exposure than a 20th
place car driven by a man. The sponsor's name would appear in photos
in magazines and TV shows that otherwise would not pay attention to
a second-rate F1 team.
: However, I think that it's great that in GP Manager 2 at least you CAN
: hire women too.
: Ed
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Randy Malbone | Opinions above are mine. You
University of Massachusetts/Boston | don't think I'd spend this much
rma...@cs.umb.edu | time promoting theirs, do you?
Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho
Was Mae West the one unfortunate that was sent home?
Tuomo
Glen Zielinski
RBrigstock wrote:
>
> Considering the fitness of the modern F1 driver, I have difficulty
> believing that a woman could develop the endurance and upper-body strength
> necessary to drive a modern F1 car for a race distance.
> I shouldn't think that a female racer would compare any better to a male
> than, say, a female tennis player fares against the opposite sex. Remember
> that Martina Navritalova in her heyday said that she could be beaten by
> her coach, who was hardly a top-ten male player.
> Robin O. Brigstocke
Remember a few years back when Our Man Nigel was outqualified at the
Indianapolis 500 by Lynn St. James? If I recall correctly, she finished
that race in the points, Nigel didn't. And although this isn't a direct
comparison, in his other 500-mile race that year, Nigel had to be helped
out of his car due to exhaustion and dehydration. Keep in mind these
races are twice as long as anything F1 has to offer, with 2000 4-g
turns.
per...@bbs.freequote.com
In article <5bk3sq$40r$3...@news.cs.umb.edu>,
rma...@cs.umb.edu (Randy Malbone) wrote:
>
> Erwin Kooij (Erwin...@phil.ruu.nl) wrote :
> : Personally, I don't think we will see black drivers, or drivers coming out
> : for their homosexuality in F1 for a long time to come. I don't think the
> : sponsers would like that very much, and I can't imagine team-managers
> : saying: "Well, then take your millions elsewhere!"
> : I'm afraid a lot of talent will be (and is being, maybe) wasted this way.
> : As for the female drivers: after the last woman in F1 (what's her name?
> : Drove for Brabham couple of years ago?) I doubt managers will be very
> : eager. She drove like three seconds slower than her teammate (who wasn't a
> : rising star either).
>
> Her name was G. Amati. She was admittedly about 3 seconds slower
> than Brabham teammate Van De Poele, but her replacement, Damon Hill(!)
> was also usually behind him as well, though not by as much.
> Personally, I expect that a female driver would be very much desired
> Randy Malbone | Opinions above are mine. You
> University of Massachusetts/Boston | don't think I'd spend this much
> rma...@cs.umb.edu | time promoting theirs, do you?
I remember some posts a while back about how no woman could succeed in F1. I
personally believe Schumacher is an android so nothing could beat him (too bad I
don't like him). he is quite amazing how he corrects his over driving like he
is a computer. Anyway, before anyone says anything bad about women race
car drivers let us not forget Michelle Mouton. She drove the Audi Quattro rally
car and was very good (did she win the women's rally championship or the
overall?). Did she win the overall and beat Blomquist or Vatanen? I remember
after she retired (or took time off) to have a baby, Audi had a TV commercial in
the States with her putting the baby in the car. They would cutaway to footage
of her driver the rally car in a race. Amazing. I rank rally drivers just below
F1 drivers. Driving a rally car has to be more physically demanding in some
cases than an F1 car. Next time you think a woman cannot drive a race car buy a
video with Michelle racing the Quattro. She was awesome.
Frank Lardino
USA
P.S. Ellen Lohr was not too bad in the now defunct ITC/DTM. Does anyone know
what will happen to ITC? Will they go back to DTM and get rid of Bernie?
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Alan Mockler
RBrigstock (rbrig...@aol.com) wrote:
> Considering the fitness of the modern F1 driver, I have difficulty
> believing that a woman could develop the endurance and upper-body strength
> necessary to drive a modern F1 car for a race distance.
> I shouldn't think that a female racer would compare any better to a male
> than, say, a female tennis player fares against the opposite sex. Remember
> that Martina Navritalova in her heyday said that she could be beaten by
> her coach, who was hardly a top-ten male player.
> Robin O. Brigstocke
It's not that simple though is it. Women can certainly develop the upper body
strength to throw an F1 car around for a few hours - witness the muscles on
(american) gladiators. Fitness also should not be a problem. Tennis is not a
fair comparison, since to be top of the women's game doesn't require the power
of a typical male tennis player. Women compete in other motorracing events on
a near level playing field with men, rallying for example. And woe betide
anybody who suggests that driving ability might be a limiting factor.
Providing they did the conditioning, I don't see why women couldn't drive an
F1 car.
Alan.
RBrigstock
Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro
per...@bbs.freequote.com wrote:
> Anyway, before anyone says anything bad about women race
> car drivers let us not forget Michelle Mouton. She drove the Audi
> Quattro rally car and was very good (did she win the women's rally
> championship or the overall?).
She never won the championship but she was close in 1982 and she won
several rallyes. I was a fan.
> Did she win the overall and beat Blomquist or Vatanen?
I don't think she was ever in the same team as Vatanen. Those years
(82-84) the Audi team had Blomqvist, Hannu Mikkola, and Walter Rohrl.
As Mouton won some rallys she must have beaten them all once or twice.
> I rank rally drivers just below F1 drivers.
I personally put rally drivers higher, but that is just my preference.
I remember a story from years ago (85 or 86). I think it was during
practice for the 1000 Lakes Rally. Some F1 drivers (including Rosberg)
were in Finland for some reason. In the same hotel was also staying
Markku Alen, who had a Lancia Delta S4 there.
Rosberg borrowed the car and went for a drive with it. When he returned,
Alen asked him what he tought of it. Instead of showing that he was
impressed, Rosberg complaind that the car was uncomfortable, the rain
had got inside, etc...
Then Alen decided to show Rosberg (and the other drivers) what the car
could do. He took each of them separately (the car had only one passenger
seat) for a real fast ride. After that, they were suitably impressed.
One of them was quoted of saying something along the lines: "With some
experience I could do the same, but not with the trees so near."
> Driving a rally car has to be more physically demanding in some
> cases than an F1 car. Next time you think a woman cannot drive a race
> car buy a video with Michelle racing the Quattro. She was awesome.
In a recent interview (last year) Mouton talked about her career and
said that a previous car (Fiat 131 Abarth ?) had a really heavy steering.
That gave her a lot of trouble in hairpins, in which she could not do it
at full speed because she was not able to turn the steering fast enough.
But the Audi (and now every top rally car) had power steering so it was
no longer a problem.
Anyway there was one race in which she had to retire because of lack of
strenght: at the start of one day the car would not start. It was in the
"parc ferme'" and the mechanics could not touch it. All she (and her
navigator, also female) had to do was to push the car to the outside of
the parc, where the mechanics would be allowed to fix it. But the Audi
weighted about 1300 Kg, and the exit of the park was a ramp (going up).
A work around to the rule that only the driver and the navigator are
allowed to push the car was once used in a Portuguese rally. The
spectators didn't touch the car, they just pushed the driver and
navigator whom were "pushing" it.
> P.S. Ellen Lohr was not too bad in the now defunct ITC/DTM. Does anyone know
> what will happen to ITC? Will they go back to DTM and get rid of Bernie?
ITC is dead. Before that, Bernie killed Groupe C. Next is the GT (ex-BPR
series). And rally (WRC) is not dead but it is somewhat ill.
--
http://www.mat.uc.pt/~rps/ an ex-tifoso since 95/11/13
.pt is Portugal| `Whom the gods love die young'-Menander (342-292 BC)
Europe | Villeneuve 50-82, Toivonen 56-86, Senna 60-94
333...@blackbox.at
On 16 Jan 1997 09:11:41 GMT, rbrig...@aol.com (RBrigstock) wrote:
> Considering the fitness of the modern F1 driver, I have difficulty
>believing that a woman could develop the endurance and upper-body strength
>necessary to drive a modern F1 car for a race distance.
> I shouldn't think that a female racer would compare any better to a male
>than,
has everybody forgotten Michelle Mouton (sp?). she WAS a hell of a
rally driver. and (aah, sorry, i forgot the name) did compete quite
well in DTM, although she didn't that good when it became ITC, but i
suppose that's mostly due to the mercedes hardware she got supplied
with. (correct me if i'm wrong, i didn't watch DTM/ITC that much). And
could please anyone tell me her name?
i'm sure women could compete in F1. and these tennis-comparisons: you
must take in account the lack of real competition in many women's
sports (especially tennis).
Stafford Brown
I study advanced training and nutrition. I would say driving an F1 car
is like being a long distance runner with "decent" upper body strength.
Micheal Schumacher works out 3 hours a day like me but when you take
all those g-forces your heart rate is about 180 bpm, thats pretty high,
like running. When your heartrate is that high your body is in "loose
muscle tissue mode (releases cortisol that breaks down muscle to
supplement other energy sources in your body) mode" like a runner (why
runners are skinny). Also Damon Hill is 150-155lbs at about 6ft
thats pretty, slim. He does work a lot but it seems to be high
repitition excercises. Micheal S. also plays a lot of soccer, runing,
biking. Not really any kind of heavy strength training. I believe a
woman has the ability to drive an F1 car. Anyone who works out
vigorously would not take to long to get used to the strength
requirements -- especially in the neck and wrists. But strength does
HELP big time in ANY SPORT so stronger drivers DO have the advantage of
concentrating on their technique because its NOT as much of a fight to
control the car.
Mario Vukelic
On Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:31:05 -0600, per...@bbs.freequote.com wrote:
>P.S. Ellen Lohr was not too bad in the now defunct ITC/DTM.
aaah, thanks. ellen lohr was the name
Mario
pgp public key on request
linux: the choice of a GNU generation
(k...@cis.ufl.edu)
RBrigstock
<< Women can certainly develop the upper body strength to throw an F1 car
around for a few hours - witness the muscles on
(american) gladiators. >>
drive an
F1 car.>>
You may notice that the male drivers don't have muscles like american
gladiators. It's really a different sort of strength that is required. I'm
not sure exactly what I'm saying, but I can't picture Bev Francis in an F1
car.
I'm not saying that a woman would be totally unable to drive an F1 car,
but her comparitive fitness would have to be much higher than a male
driver's to reach the same absolute level, and the male drivers aren't
slacking off, so I couldn't imagine that she would be able to reach that
level.
<< Tennis is not a fair comparison, since to be top of the women's game
doesn't require the power of a typical male tennis player. >>
If it doesn't require power than a woman should be able to beat a man. Do
you say that women are lacking in coordination, speed or skill and are
thus limited to second-class status in Tennis?
I really can't think of a single sport in which female athletes are the
equal of the males.
<< Women compete in other motorracing events on
a near level playing field with men, rallying for example. And woe betide
anybody who suggests that driving ability might be a limiting factor. >>
Rally cars are quite a bit different from F1 cars. I believe driving an
F1 car is far more phyical and tiring. Rally cars can hardly develop 4g's
in every direction.
<< Anyway, before anyone says anything bad about women race
car drivers let us not forget Michelle Mouton. She drove the Audi Quattro
rally
car and was very good (did she win the women's rally championship or the
overall?). >>
I don't know, but if it was the women's rally championship, it hardly
aids anyone's argument.
I, personally, am an Autocrosser. I race a Corvette in SCCA Solo II and
there are certainly several women who are better than me, and I'm sure
that they would be better than me in an F1 car as well. (Though I'm pretty
sure I could have finished 2nd at Nationals if I raced in the Ladies'
Super Stock class.) Steffi Graf would smash me in Tennis. Jackie Kersey
would outrun me. But when we are talking about top-level athlete, men seem
to have an advantage.
I see no reason why a man's race or sexual orientation should affect his
driving, however.
Robin O. Brigstocke
John Zyzniewski
Mario Vukelic wrote:
>
> On Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:31:05 -0600, per...@bbs.freequote.com wrote:
>
> >P.S. Ellen Lohr was not too bad in the now defunct ITC/DTM.
Ditto Tamara Vidali in the not defunct Super Touring Championship....
--
John Zyzniewski (joh...@powerup.com.au) Sunny Queensland, Australia
* Motorsport Fire Marshal * Ayrton Senna Forever *
"When I race, I race to win. If you are content to settle for second
or third place, you are not racing, you are no longer a racing driver"
Ayrton Senna da Silva 1960-1994
RBrigstock
OK, assume for a moment that an F1 driver is like a long distance runner.
There isn't a female long-distance runner that is anywhere close to the
men. Florence-Griffith Joyner was pretty close to the male athletes in
sprints in her heyday, but the longer the distance, the further a woman
seems to fall behind.
Though, come to think of it, the supposition that a woman would make a
good fighter pilot was partially predicated on a woman's superior
resistance to G-force effect, though the blood-flow problems associated
with fighter aircraft might not translate to F1 cars.
In any case, I'm not really saying that a well-conditioned woman couldn't
drive an F1 car. Heck, even I could drive an F1 car, given time to
practice. I just couldn't drive it very well.
There's plenty of women that could drive an F1 car better than me, but I
don't think there's any possibility of a woman driving on the level of a
Damon Hill or Michael Schumacher.
Robin O. Brigstocke
Stafford Brown
left right forward or backward. So there are no blackouts and redouts
but it causes the heart rate to go up so high. But its true. I love
bodybuilding and am also a long distance runner, I weight train my legs
very hard and it helps me run long distance so much better, I feel
light. Most runners don't believe this but its true. So if any woman
was training at an olympic athlete level (about 3 hours of good training
almost daily) Then they would be quite capable of handling an F1 car.
Thats one problem with the sport of running is no one puts emphasis on
seriously strengthing the legs to make the running easier. So if a
woman athlete were to strength train at a good level I think they would
be quite capable of handling the car. Its an interesting proposition,
and its also a battle of the sexes. For most sports I'm TOTALLY for
keeping mens and women competition separate, it hurts to many a mans
ego's and causes to many women to obsess beating the male competition
instead of the females.
Didn't a female driver get on pole for a BUSH seriese NASCAR race?
I agree though. Eddie Cheiver SP? during ESPN's coverage was talking
about how terrible the Ferrari was so that Schumacher had to drive every
lap like a qualifying lap to keep up with Williams and that he seems to
be the only driver in F1 capable of keeping that pace. Thats what I
love about him. He does go over that edge and brings the car right back
into control, thats why he's so much faster in the rain, he's kinda like
the master of opposite-lock.
Rebecca
Frank Lardino USA wrote:
I personally believe Schumacher is an android so nothing could beat him
(too bad I don't like him). he is quite amazing how he corrects his
over driving like he is a computer.
I agree that there is something mechanical about Schumacher. I also
believe that Coulthard was the prototype and that Ralph is the latest
model. Just look at their heads (they remind me of DATA in ST:TNG)
Rebecca
PS: as for women drivers - look at Shirley Muldowney in NHRA
Maria Tarkka
On Sat, 18 Jan 1997, Rebecca wrote:
> Frank Lardino USA wrote:
> I personally believe Schumacher is an android so nothing could beat him
> (too bad I don't like him). he is quite amazing how he corrects his
> over driving like he is a computer.
> I agree that there is something mechanical about Schumacher. I also
> believe that Coulthard was the prototype and that Ralph is the latest
> model. Just look at their heads (they remind me of DATA in ST:TNG)
NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
I adore Data, and I guess everyone here knows how I feel about the
Schumachers... I am not crazy about David, either. So you have to prove
yourselves, people. I am not going to put up with comparisons like these.
:-) But if you would make a driver like Lore (Data's evil twin)... Ooh...
God is it hot in here? I have to pull back before the keyboard gets
drool on it... <EG>
Maria, still a practicing Damonian to the core, but contemplating other
possibilities in the future
FREDDIE MERCURY (QUEEN) * THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA * THE VAMPIRE LESTAT
(ANNE RICE) * LONDON * AYRTON SENNA * STAR TREK TNG * SNOOKER * ENGLAND *
LOUIS (A.R) * SINGING * MARIUS (A.R) * DRAWING PORTRAITS * ARMAND (A.R) *
(THE) ENGLISH * DAMON HILL * ALEXEI URMANOV * CATS * MOZART * WRITING *
per...@bbs.freequote.com
In article <Pine.GSO.3.95.970119082158.20758C-100000@vuokko>,
Maria Tarkka <mt5...@uta.fi> wrote:
>
> On Sat, 18 Jan 1997, Rebecca wrote:
> > Frank Lardino USA wrote:
>
> > I personally believe Schumacher is an android so nothing could beat him
> > (too bad I don't like him). he is quite amazing how he corrects his
> > over driving like he is a computer.
>
> > I agree that there is something mechanical about Schumacher. I also
> > believe that Coulthard was the prototype and that Ralph is the latest
> > model. Just look at their heads (they remind me of DATA in ST:TNG)
>
> NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
>
> I adore Data, and I guess everyone here knows how I feel about the
> Schumachers... I am not crazy about David, either. So you have to prove
> yourselves, people. I am not going to put up with comparisons like these.
> :-) But if you would make a driver like Lore (Data's evil twin)... Ooh...
> God is it hot in here? I have to pull back before the keyboard gets
> drool on it... <EG>
>
Florida today. I know you are a huge Damon fan (as I am) but who is your
favorite Finn? Is Mika Salo the evil twin of Mika Hakkinen? I get the
impression that Mika Salo took charm lessons from Schumi 1. Hakkinen comes off
as being very charming and all the girls in Japan love him.
Frank
USA
Tuomo O. Vuolteenaho
On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 per...@bbs.freequote.com wrote:
> Hot in here? Maria you are in Finland. How can it be hot? It is cold in
> Florida today. I know you are a huge Damon fan (as I am) but who is your
> favorite Finn? Is Mika Salo the evil twin of Mika Hakkinen? I get the
> impression that Mika Salo took charm lessons from Schumi 1. Hakkinen comes off
> as being very charming and all the girls in Japan love him.
> Frank
I bet a bottle of bier that Mika Salo has "scored" more in Japan than Mika
Hakkinen. I also bet that Salo would conform this irrispectively of
whether it's true or not.
Tuomo
Mike Fleming
On 16 Jan 1997 09:11:41 GMT, rbrig...@aol.com (RBrigstock) wrote:
> Considering the fitness of the modern F1 driver, I have difficulty
> believing that a woman could develop the endurance and upper-body strength
> necessary to drive a modern F1 car for a race distance.
> I shouldn't think that a female racer would compare any better to a male
> than, say, a female tennis player fares against the opposite sex. Remember
> that Martina Navritalova in her heyday said that she could be beaten by
> her coach, who was hardly a top-ten male player.
What about the Simonite sisters in rallying, who regularly trounce
most male opposition?
Mike Fleming
Maria Tarkka
> > Schumachers... I am not crazy about David, either. So you have to prove
> > yourselves, people. I am not going to put up with comparisons like these.
> > :-) But if you would make a driver like Lore (Data's evil twin)... Ooh...
> > God is it hot in here? I have to pull back before the keyboard gets
> > drool on it... <EG>
> Hot in here? Maria you are in Finland. How can it be hot? It is cold in
> Florida today.
If you don't have a couple of feet of snow, it is not cold. Trust me on
this one. About Lore: just thinking about him makes me feel... Well... and
think what a driver an android without any natural politeness would make!
Data would let everyone pass, I think, but Lore? He would trash everyone
and everything (maybe even the car. Dunno).
> I know you are a huge Damon fan (as I am) but who is your
> favorite Finn? Is Mika Salo the evil twin of Mika Hakkinen? I get the
> impression that Mika Salo took charm lessons from Schumi 1. Hakkinen comes
> off as being very charming and all the girls in Japan love him.
I have no favourite Finns I'm afraid (no I am not but who cares). Anyway,
Salo is the less reserved type, and I think Hakkinen is not as nice a
person, as easy to be with, as Salo, either. Hakkinen is as decidedly a
racer as Schumi 1 ; he just hasn't got the car to show it in. Hakkinen is
well trained to be correct all the time, but I think there is something of
an attitude problem lurking there somewhere. If he did have the car, he
would probably be unbarable after a couple of victories. Or it might ease
the tension and allow him to take a deep breath and be happy about
himself. Then he could be genuine and at ease with others. But we will
only find out when this happens. From some of the interviews I have seen,
he, as all of us, does have a genuinely nice side to him, so there's hope
yet (if you can be nice to an interviewer, you truly are a nice person).
So, to put it shortly, Salo is laid back and friendly, Hakkinen is distant
and frustrated (which is not all his fault).
Maria, who still worships Damon
Gareth Davies
RBrigstock wrote:
>
> << Women can certainly develop the upper body strength to throw an F1 car
> around for a few hours - witness the muscles on
> (american) gladiators. >>
> drive an
> F1 car.>>
>
strength, and any woman who can give birth must have pretty good
endurance. IMHO, the only reason why there aren't more women in F1 is
because of social conditioning, and I'd love to see more of them given
the chance. The notion that you have to have testickles to be able to
stand up to 4G must be galling to every female astronaut.
Gareth davies
Mario
>pardon me, but I think the point is that F1 is about endurance, not raw
>strength, and any woman who can give birth must have pretty good
>endurance. IMHO, the only reason why there aren't more women in F1 is
>because of social conditioning, and I'd love to see more of them given
>the chance. The notion that you have to have testickles to be able to
>stand up to 4G must be galling to every female astronaut.
that's it, nothing more to be said
Max Nealon
Gareth Davies <G.R.J....@durham.ac.uk> wrote in article
<32E34F...@smtphost.dur.ac.uk>...
> RBrigstock wrote:
> >
> > << Women can certainly develop the upper body strength to throw an F1
car
> > around for a few hours -
{snip}
> > Rally cars are quite a bit different from F1 cars. I believe driving
an
> > F1 car is far more phyical and tiring.
[snip]
> > << Anyway, before anyone says anything bad about women race
> > car drivers let us not forget Michelle Mouton. She drove the Audi
Quattro
As a commitent Michell Mouton fan a fair few years ago, I attended an event
at Donnington Park in the UK, at which she was competing.
The idea was F1 drivers, versus Rally drivers, over three events
Event one was a autotest which involved parking, reversing and handbrake
turing a car through a maze of cone, the second was handling a Rover SD1
around a rally course, followed by a race in identically setup MG
Montego's.
Amongst the drivers there was Nigel Mansell (Who drove a Williams for the
very first time and shattered the lap record, having signed for them two
weeks previously), Keke Rosberg, Tony Pond, and Ms Mouton.
I have no idea of the result now, but Ms Mouton was exceptional in the
circuit race, she was easily the most aggressive, and almost won it had it
not been for a last corner clash which pretty much destroyed the front of
the car.
Many years later I drove a car that she had crashed out of the circuit of
Ireland rally (after it had been fixed), an Audi Quattro Sport, and it was
incredibly hard to drive, it was very heavy, and everything required more
than a slight shove to move. The physical fitness required to drive this at
high speed for a sustained period over a rough track must have been
remarkable.
I think that dismissing women from F1 on the grounds of physical fitness,
or whatever is silly, just as dismissing them on the grounds of skill.
Perhaps if you look at the amount of racing done by women, you will realise
that it is just a male dominated sport.
Max
John D. Owen
RBrigstock wrote:
>
> Considering the fitness of the modern F1 driver, I have difficulty
> believing that a woman could develop the endurance and upper-body strength
> necessary to drive a modern F1 car for a race distance.
I don't think that is the problem: by and large the kind of body
strength needed for driving a modern F1 car is not so large as it used
to be (think of the fifties, and guys like Gonzalez wrestling cars round
with arms like treetrunks). I did see somewhere quite recently an
argument that the problem which seems to let most women get only so far
in motorsport before they run up against a defining limitation, is that
a woman's spatial awareness is not as good as a man's. It's not down to
strength, or reaction times (women are quite competitive in drag racing,
for example, where reaction times are critical), but having an innate
sense of where the car is, what it is going to do and what you have to
do to place it exactly where you want it to go, seems to be the thing
that divides the merely good drivers from the great. That's down to
spatial (or even spacial, I'm not sure which) awareness. There are
counter-examples, of course, the fabulous Michele Mouton for one, but I
find it strange that women have not progressed very far in motorsport.
There are more in rallying than in track racing, but very few ever reach
the very top. Shame that -- one area where you'd think the two sexes
should have an equal opportunity to shine.
One last thought: there are now a number of top female fighter pilots
around the world -- if there is one other area using spatial awareness
even more than motor racing, it's flying at that level. Go figure!
JDO
João Pedro
r...@morgana.mat.uc.pt (Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro) wrote:
>> Did she win the overall and beat Blomquist or Vatanen?
>I don't think she was ever in the same team as Vatanen. Those years
>(82-84) the Audi team had Blomqvist, Hannu Mikkola, and Walter Rohrl.
>As Mouton won some rallys she must have beaten them all once or twice.
Yep, she beat Mikkola and Blomqvist but Rohrl was driving for Opel .
When Rohrl went to Audi, Michelle was not part of the team.
>A work around to the rule that only the driver and the navigator are
>allowed to push the car was once used in a Portuguese rally. The
>spectators didn't touch the car, they just pushed the driver and
>navigator whom were "pushing" it.
This sort of practice is now banned by the rulebook.
Irwin Sabath
"Max Nealon" <m...@basing.progress.com> wrote:
<snip>
>Perhaps if you look at the amount of racing done by women, you will realise
>that it is just a male dominated sport.<
'cause that's the way God intended it to be!
--
Irwin
t.i.n.s.t.a.a.f.l.
Roy Glikin
There is absolutely no physical reason a woman could not compete in F1 at
the top level.
In fact, there is reason to believe a woman would have an advantage.
Women have a higher resistance to heat stress than men. They also have
greater energy reserves which would hold their endurance in good stead.
(It is speculated that the time will come when female marathon times will
be lower than the male marathon times) Both of these factors would allow a
woman to make better use of the most important tool a driver has - the
brain. As to upper body strength, that's irrelevant in a Formula car,
which is driven with the forearms and wrists.
There are a good number of fine, young female kart pilots and a huge
marketing opportunity available for a company that wishes to support their
progress up the ladder.
It is very unfortunate that America's finest, young female driving talent
- Kara Hendrick - lost her life in a Midget race. (Those are the four
cylinder dirt-riding "sprint" cars for you Europeans out there. No walk in
the park, fellas.) The words "the next Jeff Gordon" were attached to
Kara's success. You all, do know who Jeff Gordon is?
I guarantee you, there will be a female F1 winner in the next ten years
and a female World Champion in the next 15. Who, I don't know, but she's
out there beating the boys in some kart race somewhere.
Oh, and a woman has won a Grand Prix - in the fuzzy mists of my memory I
recall a Hungarian (or was she Czech?) lady won a GP back in the 30's. If
a woman could handle one of those beasts, a woman could certainly pilot
one of the svelte little toys of today.
Maria Tarkka
On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Gareth Davies wrote:
> pardon me, but I think the point is that F1 is about endurance, not raw
> strength, and any woman who can give birth must have pretty good
> endurance.
Well now you can think further and maybe the meaning of those nine months
will become clearer to you. You know, some of the most annoying things God
decided to plague us with do serve a purpose.
;-)
Maria
Andrew Watson
Maria Tarkka <mt5...@uta.fi> wrote in article
<Pine.GSO.3.95.970121095101.1428D-100000@vuokko>...
> Well now you can think further and maybe the meaning of those nine months
> will become clearer to you. You know, some of the most annoying things
God
> decided to plague us with do serve a purpose.
>
The most endurance exhibited by animals in the natural world when it comes
to giving birth and rearing is by the MALE Emperor penguin which spends
months in the Antartic winter at temperatures down to -50C without eating
and losing a third of it's bodyweight.
So humans have it easy !
Ian G Batten
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In article <5bk3sq$40r$3...@news.cs.umb.edu>,
Randy Malbone <rma...@cs.umb.edu> wrote:
> Personally, I expect that a female driver would be very much desired
> by a cash-strapped back-of-the-grid team. I'm sure that there must be
> some female drivers out there as good as the current male rent-
> a-drivers, and I suspect that a 20th place car driven by a women would
> generate FAR more media attention and sponsor exposure than a 20th
> place car driven by a man. The sponsor's name would appear in photos
> in magazines and TV shows that otherwise would not pay attention to
> a second-rate F1 team.
Indeed. I don't think that Giovanna Amati in the Brabham was any worse
a racing proposition than any of the tail-enders in under-funded teams
today. She didn't set F3000 afire, but she wasn't a novelty act either.
Her mistake was to arrive in F1 in an underfunded team during a season
in which pre-qualifying was a factor. Not enough testing, and not
enough practice miles.
Were someone of her degree of talent to arrive in a tail-end car today,
I don't think she would instantly be failing the 107% rule.
Did Hill manage to qualify every race he was entered in? I don't
recall, but although Hill didn't win much in F3000 he was certainly
_well_ up the grid.
ian
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Sylvan Smyth
rm...@mail.idt.net (Roy Glikin) wrote:
>(It is speculated that the time will come when female marathon times will
>be lower than the male marathon times)
No, such _was_ speculated, by two of the most inept "scientists" in
history. All they did was note the rapid decrease in the women's
marathon world record from about 1970 'til the mid '80's, and extend
that linear decrease until, whaddya know, women would be running 2:05
marathons. What these clever folks missed was the fact that the women's
marathon record had already stagnated at 2:21 for 10 years, and sub-2:25
performances, were, if anything, becoming less common. A little
background research would have revealed that women's marathoning didn't
even exist before the late 1960's. No wonder the record would fall
precipitously once top athletes took up the new challenge. This
nonsense about women running faster marathons than men is an insult to
great athletes like Uta Pippig. She trains as hard as any male runner
but hasn't been able to crack the 12 year old women's marathon record
that she has targeted, let alone run the 15 minutes faster she'd need to
to be as fast as the men. The more likely record to fall is the men's
marathon world record. Recent performances at 10km and the half
marathon have hinted that the likes of Tergat, Gebrselassie or Hissou
could possibly run a 2:03 marathon. Then a Chinese woman will shock the
world with a 2:16, but we still won't be any closer than the ubiquitous
9-11% gap we've always had at virtually all distances. Ultramarathons?
Ann Trason contends for outright victories in the trail 100 milers, but
put her on the track for an elite 100km, and we're back to the usual gap
to the elite males. When the elite 100km men train for 100 mile trail
runs, there's no reason to believe we won't see the same gaps there.
---
Sylvan Smyth
syl...@islandnet.com
Victoria, B.C. Canada
The Formula 1 Sounds Home Page, featuring Murray Walker
http://www.islandnet.com/~sylvan/f1sounds/
Dillon Pyron
Graham Shevlin wrote:
> minorities are just not taken seriously. You only have to listen to
> comments made by people inside motorsport to realise this. I have
> heard so many patronising and condescending remarks made by people in
> and around the fringes of motorsport about women, blacks etc.
Good point. Willy T. Ribbs would have been a footnote if not for his
name. Too bad an accident took away his interest in driving.
And ABC had a "piece" on Lyn St. James about her custom firesuit (aren't
they all at that level?) and specially designed restraint system to
accomodate her "different" anatomy.
As long as we the spectators and the media treat them as "the first" or
"the only", instead of just another driver, we won't have "many".
--
dillon pyron
dillon...@amd.com
PADI OWSI-54909 USPSA TY-26031
My mind has a mind of its own.
Tony Jesson
RBrigstock wrote:
> Though, come to think of it, the supposition that a woman would make a
> good fighter pilot was partially predicated on a woman's superior
> resistance to G-force effect, though the blood-flow problems associated
> with fighter aircraft might not translate to F1 cars.
> In any case, I'm not really saying that a well-conditioned woman couldn't
> drive an F1 car. Heck, even I could drive an F1 car, given time to
> practice. I just couldn't drive it very well.
1. Male female differences due to evolutionary diversity, Ie Men hunted
which envolved running jumping and generally bieng faster and more
"athletic" than the women who's main activity was gathering.
2. due to this women do not ( on the whole and always to a lesser degree
) have the same hand eye coordination as a man of equal practice.
And on the subject of Women drivers what ever happened to Davina
Galips...
whatever her name...?
--
___________________________________________________________
Tony and Michelle Jesson man...@starwon.com.au
Life is either a great adventure or it is nothing at all
........Helen Keller.
___________________________________________________________
Gulliver
In article <32dfbc49...@news.ping.at>, 333...@blackbox.at wrote:
> On 16 Jan 1997 09:11:41 GMT, rbrig...@aol.com (RBrigstock) wrote:
>
> > Considering the fitness of the modern F1 driver, I have difficulty
> >believing that a woman could develop the endurance and upper-body strength
> >necessary to drive a modern F1 car for a race distance.
> >than,
>
> rally driver. and (aah, sorry, i forgot the name) did compete quite
> well in DTM, although she didn't that good when it became ITC, but i
> suppose that's mostly due to the mercedes hardware she got supplied
> with. (correct me if i'm wrong, i didn't watch DTM/ITC that much). And
> could please anyone tell me her name?
Ellen Lohr. The only woman to win a DTM race - she was pretty damned good
a few years ago when her car was competitive.
> i'm sure women could compete in F1. and these tennis-comparisons: you
> must take in account the lack of real competition in many women's
> sports (especially tennis).
Most women could not compete - for body strength reasons. But a small
percentage of women ought to have the strength required, and I expect one
day a good female F1 driver will turn up.
--
Angus Gulliver
an...@spuddy.mew.co.uk
Also at a.w.r.g...@herts.ac.uk
Question every piece of information that enters your mind...
...and it might grow bigger.
Graham Shevlin
"John D. Owen" <J.D....@open.ac.uk> wrote:
>RBrigstock wrote:
>>
>> Considering the fitness of the modern F1 driver, I have difficulty
>> believing that a woman could develop the endurance and upper-body strength
>> necessary to drive a modern F1 car for a race distance.
>I don't think that is the problem: by and large the kind of body
Andrew Watson
Roy Glikin <rm...@mail.idt.net> wrote in article
<rmg19-21019...@boston-pm4-dyn114.pcix.com>...
> There is absolutely no physical reason a woman could not compete in F1 at
> the top level.
>
> In fact, there is reason to believe a woman would have an advantage.
> Women have a higher resistance to heat stress than men. They also have
> greater energy reserves which would hold their endurance in good stead.
> (It is speculated that the time will come when female marathon times will
> be lower than the male marathon times) Both of these factors would allow
a
> woman to make better use of the most important tool a driver has - the
> brain. As to upper body strength, that's irrelevant in a Formula car,
> which is driven with the forearms and wrists.
I agree about upper body strength, but what about neck muscles. Already
some of the drivers have to use restraints. I suppose it all depends on how
far the G forces reach in the next 10 years. There are US female pilots,
so maybe this is not a problem.
PS Women are smaller and lighter than men in general so that means more
weight can be put into strengthening the mechanicals whilst still staying
close to the minimum weight for car and driver.
Ross Clement
Andrew Watson (andy...@msn.com) wrote:
: PS Women are smaller and lighter than men in general so that means more
: weight can be put into strengthening the mechanicals whilst still staying
: close to the minimum weight for car and driver.
From the photos I've seen, the same can be said about Jarno Trulli.
Cheers,
Ross-c
Peter Mendoza
Irwin Sabath wrote:
>
> "Max Nealon" <m...@basing.progress.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >Perhaps if you look at the amount of racing done by women, you will realise
> >that it is just a male dominated sport.<
>
> 'cause that's the way God intended it to be!
players recently? and in Golf Laura Davies averaged more than 270 yards
driving distance last year which would put her in the upper half of male
players. Women just don't get interested or somtimes due to social
conditioning don't take up motoracing
Peter
Peter Tilmanis
On Sat, 18 Jan 1997, Rebecca wrote:
> Frank Lardino USA wrote:
>
> I agree that there is something mechanical about Schumacher. I also
> believe that Coulthard was the prototype and that Ralph is the latest
> model. Just look at their heads (they remind me of DATA in ST:TNG)
Coulthard reminds me of Kryten from Red Dwarf.
--
Peter Tilmanis
pet...@netspace.net.au
pet...@minerva.com.au
Maria Tarkka
On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Andrew Watson wrote:
> Maria Tarkka <mt5...@uta.fi> wrote:
> > Well now you can think further and maybe the meaning of those nine months
> > will become clearer to you. You know, some of the most annoying things
> > God decided to plague us with do serve a purpose.
> The most endurance exhibited by animals in the natural world when it comes
> to giving birth and rearing is by the MALE Emperor penguin which spends
> months in the Antartic winter at temperatures down to -50C without eating
> and losing a third of it's bodyweight.
Believe it or not, I have heard of that (I do watch nature stuff on TV).
But my point was that women would not want to give birth to a child every
other weekend (and if you assume the strain is comparable with a F1GP...)
Irwin Sabath
Dillon Pyron <dillon...@amd.com> wrote:
>Good point. Willy T. Ribbs would have been a footnote if not for his
>name. Too bad an accident took away his interest in driving.<
Right you are Dillon.
Always thought , with that name, he would have been more successful
opening a chain of barbecue restaurants
--
Irwin
t.i.n.s.t.a.a.f.l.
Graeme Brown
r...@morgana.mat.uc.pt (Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro) wrote:
>> I rank rally drivers just below F1 drivers.
>
>I personally put rally drivers higher, but that is just my preference.
>
>I remember a story from years ago (85 or 86). I think it was during
>practice for the 1000 Lakes Rally. Some F1 drivers (including Rosberg)
>were in Finland for some reason. In the same hotel was also staying
>Markku Alen, who had a Lancia Delta S4 there.
>
>Rosberg borrowed the car and went for a drive with it. When he returned,
>Alen asked him what he tought of it. Instead of showing that he was
>impressed, Rosberg complaind that the car was uncomfortable, the rain
>had got inside, etc...
>
>Then Alen decided to show Rosberg (and the other drivers) what the car
>could do. He took each of them separately (the car had only one passenger
>seat) for a real fast ride. After that, they were suitably impressed.
>One of them was quoted of saying something along the lines: "With some
>experience I could do the same, but not with the trees so near."
Ayrton Senna tested some rally cars for a British magazine, Cars & Car
Conversions, about ten years ago. His reaction was pretty much the
same. Racing drivers don't get much better than Senna, so I'd be
inclined to believe him.
Graeme
RAC Rally pages: www.emtel.demon.co.uk/rac.html
Homepage: www.emtel.demon.co.uk/home.html
Mario
>1. Male female differences due to evolutionary diversity, Ie Men hunted
>which envolved running jumping and generally bieng faster and more
>"athletic" than the women who's main activity was gathering.
>2. due to this women do not ( on the whole and always to a lesser degree
>) have the same hand eye coordination as a man of equal practice.
you are applying contemporary (well, not so...) misconceptions of
certain currents in economical and sociologal theory to Biology,
Just as Darwin applied mid-19th-century economics on Nature. The
consequence of such unconscious models of thought is, that rather than
discovering a nature of law, you invent it.
As science has proven Darwins theory of the *survival of the fittest*
wrong (meaning that there is a whole lot more to know about evolution
and that darwin only had discovered a tiny part) so it has you.
Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro
Graeme Brown (gra...@emtel.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> r...@morgana.mat.uc.pt (Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro) wrote:
> >Then Alen decided to show Rosberg (and the other drivers) what the car
> >could do. He took each of them separately (the car had only one passenger
> >seat) for a real fast ride. After that, they were suitably impressed.
> >One of them was quoted of saying something along the lines: "With some
> >experience I could do the same, but not with the trees so near."
> Ayrton Senna tested some rally cars for a British magazine, Cars & Car
> Conversions, about ten years ago. His reaction was pretty much the
> same.
Interesting. It is a pity that we live in an epoch of such specialization.
It would be nice to see some F1 drivers trying rally or Le Mans like
they used to do.
Idea: Instead of karts at Bercy, an Ice race in the Andros cup (see below).
> Racing drivers don't get much better than Senna, so I'd be
> inclined to believe him.
BTW, something I read about today (last week's Auto-Hebdo):
Markku Alen is racing this year in the Andros cup.
The Andros cup is made by ice races in closed circuits. It is mostly in
France, with one race in Andorra.
The cars have 4 wheel drive, 4 wheel steering (there is one class without
4WS), mid-engines (either rear mid-engine or front mid-engine), in a
tubular frame covered by a plastic body that looks like a normal car.
Engines are either 2l or about 3l (maximum 3.5l ?).
Alen is driving an Opel Tigra and he is doing well, having won one of
the legs in the last race.
Talking about people from the past, did someone noticed who won
Monte-Carlo alongside to Pieri Liatti ? Frabizia Pons, who (IIRC)
became famous in the righ seat of Michelle Mouton's Audi.
Note followups.
--
http://www.mat.uc.pt/~rps/rally/ an ex-tifoso since 95/11/13
.pt is Portugal| `Whom the gods love die young'-Menander (342-292 BC)
Europe | Villeneuve 50-82, Toivonen 56-86, Senna 60-94
Barry
> >
> > > Considering the fitness of the modern F1 driver, I have difficulty
> > >believing that a woman could develop the endurance and upper-body strength
> > >necessary to drive a modern F1 car for a race distance.
> > >than,
> >
> > has everybody forgotten Michelle Mouton (sp?). she WAS a hell of a
> > rally driver. and (aah, sorry, i forgot the name) did compete quite
> > well in DTM, although she didn't that good when it became ITC, but i
> > suppose that's mostly due to the mercedes hardware she got supplied
> > with. (correct me if i'm wrong, i didn't watch DTM/ITC that much). And
> > could please anyone tell me her name?
>
> Ellen Lohr. The only woman to win a DTM race - she was pretty damned good
> a few years ago when her car was competitive.
>
> > i'm sure women could compete in F1. and these tennis-comparisons: you
> > must take in account the lack of real competition in many women's
> > sports (especially tennis).
>
> Most women could not compete - for body strength reasons. But a small
> percentage of women ought to have the strength required, and I expect one
> day a good female F1 driver will turn up.
>
> --
>
> Angus Gulliver
> an...@spuddy.mew.co.uk
> Also at a.w.r.g...@herts.ac.uk
> Question every piece of information that enters your mind...
> ...and it might grow bigger.
There was a woman in F1. Lella Lombardi. She attemped to qualify for
Brabham in 1974 but failed. In 1975 she raced for Lavazza March and
finished 6th in the 2nd race of the season (Spain). Later in the season
she had another top 10 finish at the German GP. In 1976 she lost her
sponsorship and only raced in 4 races finishing 12th in her last race in
Austria. Altogether she competed in 12 GP's.
Barry
Phil Luyer
In this discussion I think you have forgotten the McRae/Brundle Test
drives about a year ago, where the drivers swapped cars for the day,
Brundles main comment about McRaes F1 driving was that he has to learn
that you dont need to slow down for the corners anywhere near what
mcrrae was doing, also not to try to use the tacho, or basically any
instrument other than the shift light for the gears.
btw i personnally reckon it takes a lot more skill to drive a rally car
at top level than a f1 car, maybe more MEDIA skills in f1, but you get
that.
also consider that no current formula one driver has finished the RAC
Rally of England (and not for want of trying) it's just a pity that it's
so hard to get a super licence these days, and the f1 season is so short
anyway, the rally drivers would probably never get a chance to try a F1
world champs event.
Graeme Brown wrote:
>
> r...@morgana.mat.uc.pt (Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro) wrote:
>
> >> I rank rally drivers just below F1 drivers.
> >
> >I personally put rally drivers higher, but that is just my preference.
> >
> >I remember a story from years ago (85 or 86). I think it was during
> >practice for the 1000 Lakes Rally. Some F1 drivers (including Rosberg)
> >were in Finland for some reason. In the same hotel was also staying
> >Markku Alen, who had a Lancia Delta S4 there.
> >
> >Rosberg borrowed the car and went for a drive with it. When he returned,
> >Alen asked him what he tought of it. Instead of showing that he was
> >impressed, Rosberg complaind that the car was uncomfortable, the rain
> >had got inside, etc...
> >
> >Then Alen decided to show Rosberg (and the other drivers) what the car
> >could do. He took each of them separately (the car had only one passenger
> >seat) for a real fast ride. After that, they were suitably impressed.
> >One of them was quoted of saying something along the lines: "With some
> >experience I could do the same, but not with the trees so near."
>
> Ayrton Senna tested some rally cars for a British magazine, Cars & Car
> Conversions, about ten years ago. His reaction was pretty much the
> same. Racing drivers don't get much better than Senna, so I'd be
> inclined to believe him.
>
> Graeme
>
> RAC Rally pages: www.emtel.demon.co.uk/rac.html
> Homepage: www.emtel.demon.co.uk/home.html
--
Internet: ELU...@alpha1.curtin.edu.au
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"You take what you get, you get what you please
It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees"
-Power & The Passion, Midnight Oil (1982)
Mario
On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 22:22:39 GMT, 333...@blackbox.at (Mario) wrote:
>rather than
>discovering a nature of law, you invent it.
Ooops ... law of nature, of course
J. Roy Burnham
About the closest comparison to fi driving I can think of is test pilot.
The prototypes of the German V1 flying bomb ( a ram jet without a gas
pedal!) were built with a cockpit so they could be test flown by a pilot!
The Nazi hierarchy, not noted for their affirmative action policies chose
a woman. And not because she was expendable. I am no friend of the
rabid feminists but I do believe in credit where it's due. Personally I
have doubts about her sanity but that's something else.
Roy.
--
Andrew Robinson
>>Most women could not compete - for body strength reasons. But a small
>>percentage of women ought to have the strength required, and I expect one
>>day a good female F1 driver will turn up.
>
>why those who can get paid so much. for women there may come
>additional parts into the equation - parts bad for them and parts good
>for them. but essentially no difference
>
Most of the girls I race against in karts are pretty damned good, but
strength does not play such a big part. Mentally - well, there are some
pretty pathetic men and women out there, take it as it comes.
Frankly, when the helmet goes on you can't tell really. When the flag
drops the bulls**t stops, and there are as many good female kart racers
as bad. Which is the same with the blokes. There are just less of them.
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Christine Johnston
In article <E4oItD.EG...@torfree.net> J. Roy Burnham,
When I think Hanna Reitsch the phrase 'mad raving ego tripper' leaps
readily to hand. Read 'The Last Days of Hitler' for her further
hilarious adventures. Flew with von Greim (her SO) into Berlin about 5
days before it fell. He got shot up on the way in so she had to lean
over him and land the plane at the Brandenburg Gate. Proceeded to use
for hours the one and only phone line out of the Bunker to tell the world
about this latest daring deed and was not put off that they kept hanging
up on her and telling her to get off the line as they had important
things to do - Russians and all that, you know. When Hitler shot
himself, von Greim and her whole family killed themselves. Except her.
Had to ensure the world knew about her legend. In a world gone mad she
was definitely bonkers. Would have made a good Ferrari driver.
Stéphane MOUCHEL
I heard on the radio (it is official). Renault will provide engine
engines to the Willimas team in 1998 and in 1999. It will not be Renault
itself, but a little french company, Motortech (?). It will be the same
as Mugen and Honda. If anyone has more informations, please post.
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