Yamaha Engine Info. How much HP V. Renault
R Butler
per...@bbs.freequote.com wrote:
>Christine's post mentioned this year's Yamaha will have 5% more HP and the
>engine has been made stronger for reliability. She also said a new engine
>will be ready for Imola (will that be the 4th or 5th race of the season?).
>My question is how much HP did the Yamaha put out versus the Renault. I
>thought the Yamaha put out about 700 hp versus 740 for the Renault. If
>Tom found 5% more power, the Arrows-Yamaha should be around 735 hp. I
>would guess the Renault RS10 (or 9) would be up to 750 hp (so far Jacques
>does not like it too much).
I don't know where Christine got her figures from but 5% seems a hell of
a lot.
Here are some figures of f1 engines power for 1996 (from a highly
respected french F1 yearbook):
Ferrari 046: 760 HP @ 14500rpm
Renault RS8: 745 HP @ 14500rpm <-------------
Mercedes F0112: 720 HP @ 15700rpm
Peugeot A12 EV5: 710 HP @ 13700rpm
Ford Zetec-R V10: 710 HP @ 15000rpm
Mugen-Honda MF-301HA:690 HP @ 13700rpm <-------------
Yamaha OX11A: 690 HP @ 13800rpm
Hart 830 V8: 680 HP @ 13100rpm
Ford Cosworth ED2: 640 HP @ 13500rpm
Thus we may conclude: a 55HP disadvantage for the Yamaha v. Renault.
690 + 5% = 724.5 ~= 724 HP = Yamaha power for '97 ?? Impressive if true;
and there's reliability too.
Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro
R Butler (But...@ilink.com) wrote:
> Here are some figures of f1 engines power for 1996 (from a highly
> respected french F1 yearbook):
> Ferrari 046: 760 HP @ 14500rpm
> Renault RS8: 745 HP @ 14500rpm <-------------
Maximum power at 14500 rpm ? If that is correct why does the Renault
goes up to 17500 (now 18000 in the RS9) ? I would expect the maximum
power at most only 1000 rpm lower than the red-line.
(Maybe Renault engineers do that to get a larger power-band ?)
BTW, check http://www.RenaultF1.com/world_gb/v10_new/index.html
quote from there: "Maxi' engine speed 500 rpm higher (over 18,000 rpm)"
BTW2, I have read that the engine is useable as low as 7000 rpm.
I suppose that the first gear ratio is limited by grip (making it
shorter would only increase wheelspin), so the engine is used at low
rpm in the hairpins (Estoril chicane, La Rascasse in Monaco, La source
in Spa, etc...).
> Mercedes F0112: 720 HP @ 15700rpm
> Peugeot A12 EV5: 710 HP @ 13700rpm
Considering that the McLarens and the Jordans were usually the fastest
cars in the straights I found it hard to believe that they would be so
behind the Renault and the Ferrari. Of course they could have much less
aerodynamic drag.
Sometime ago, someone else posted such a table. I think I saw one more
recent than this one:
Date: 1996/09/09
In article <1996090915...@chiasso-ppp05.tinet.ch>
tg...@tinet.ch (Thomas Gmuer) wrote:
: Because HP's are one of the best secrets, no manufacturer will tell.
: Therefor you wont find a "reliable" source. Italian "Quattroruote" made
: this calculation in march:
: Renault 720
: Peugeot 710
: Ferrari 710
: Mercedes 700
Much closer numbers here.
: Mugen 680
: Ford Zetec 670
: Ford ED 660
: Yamaha 660
: Hart 640
: Ford EC 630
: In the meantime Mercedes and Peugeot should be at 740 with Renault &
: Ferrari near 730. Ford made only a small jump to 675. Pure Horsepower
: is not the most important thing in racing, but with at least minus 50
: its damish hard to compete!
I am searching in dejanews, but I only found tables about 1995 engines:
Date: 1995/09/13
In article: <436r9q$1...@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
rol...@marie.mit.edu (Gunther Roland) writes:
: This weeks 'Motorsport Aktuell' has an (somewhat obscure) analysis of
: F1 engines by an italian engineer, Enrico Benzing. This is what he gets, in
: terms of hp and gain in hp/ccm compared to '94:
: Ferrari 725/+2%
: Renault 700/+4%
: Peugeot 680/+8%
: Mercedes 675/+8%
: Mugen 660/+4%
: Yamaha 650/+5%
: Ford Zetec 625/-2%
--
http://www.mat.uc.pt/~rps/f1/ an ex-tifoso since 95/11/13
.pt is Portugal| `Whom the gods love die young'-Menander (342-292 BC)
Europe | Villeneuve 50-82, Toivonen 56-86, Senna 60-94
>
>
> >Christine's post mentioned this year's Yamaha will have 5% more HP and the
> >engine has been made stronger for reliability. She also said a new engine
> >will be ready for Imola (will that be the 4th or 5th race of the season?).
> >My question is how much HP did the Yamaha put out versus the Renault. I
> >thought the Yamaha put out about 700 hp versus 740 for the Renault. If
> >Tom found 5% more power, the Arrows-Yamaha should be around 735 hp. I
> >would guess the Renault RS10 (or 9) would be up to 750 hp (so far Jacques
> >does not like it too much).
>
> I don't know where Christine got her figures from but 5% seems a hell of
> a lot.
>
>
> >Christine's post mentioned this year's Yamaha will have 5% more HP and the
> >engine has been made stronger for reliability. She also said a new engine
> >will be ready for Imola (will that be the 4th or 5th race of the season?).
> >My question is how much HP did the Yamaha put out versus the Renault. I
> >thought the Yamaha put out about 700 hp versus 740 for the Renault. If
> >Tom found 5% more power, the Arrows-Yamaha should be around 735 hp. I
> >would guess the Renault RS10 (or 9) would be up to 750 hp (so far Jacques
> >does not like it too much).
>
> I don't know where Christine got her figures from but 5% seems a hell of
> a lot.
>
Mark Orr
I don't know how what to think of the figures..the Mercedes and Peugeot
engines are commonly known to be the most powerful in F1 albeit with some
driveability problems.....one of the Ferrari engineers in an interview,
estimated the Merc has 755HP and the Peugeot 745...the Renault was estimated
at 725....he was understandably mum about the Ferrari engine. I'd say 690 to
700 is about right for the Yamaha.
Mark
mikko tanni
R Butler <But...@ilink.com> wrote:
>
> per...@bbs.freequote.com wrote:
>
>
> >Christine's post mentioned this year's Yamaha will have 5% more HP and the
> >engine has been made stronger for reliability. She also said a new engine
> >will be ready for Imola (will that be the 4th or 5th race of the season?).
> >My question is how much HP did the Yamaha put out versus the Renault. I
> >thought the Yamaha put out about 700 hp versus 740 for the Renault. If
> >Tom found 5% more power, the Arrows-Yamaha should be around 735 hp. I
> >would guess the Renault RS10 (or 9) would be up to 750 hp (so far Jacques
> >does not like it too much).
>
> I don't know where Christine got her figures from but 5% seems a hell of
> a lot.
>
> respected french F1 yearbook):
>
> Ferrari 046: 760 HP @ 14500rpm
> Renault RS8: 745 HP @ 14500rpm <-------------
> Peugeot A12 EV5: 710 HP @ 13700rpm
> Mugen-Honda MF-301HA:690 HP @ 13700rpm <-------------
> Yamaha OX11A: 690 HP @ 13800rpm
> Hart 830 V8: 680 HP @ 13100rpm
> Ford Cosworth ED2: 640 HP @ 13500rpm
>
> Thus we may conclude: a 55HP disadvantage for the Yamaha v. Renault.
>
> 690 + 5% = 724.5 ~= 724 HP = Yamaha power for '97 ?? Impressive if true;
> and there's reliability too.
mika salo said that has around 100 hp less than top teams...
and ferrari, 760 at 14500...i doubt it.. how they have managed to do
it..1st v-10 engine in their history, and according to this list it
is more powerful than renault. and renault has used v-10s since 1989.
14500 rpm..? well it should be more like 17000 8)
Christine Johnston
In article <32E207...@ilink.com> R Butler, But...@ilink.com writes:
>I don't know where Christine got her figures from but 5% seems a hell of
>a lot.
>
It was the info Yamaha/EDL gave at the car launch.
R Butler
mikko tanni <mord...@freenet.hut.fi> wrote:
>excuse me, but these numbers are bit..how i should say it, wrong.?
>mika salo said that has around 100 hp less than top teams...
I'm not surprised Mika Salo made such a statement; always blaming the
equipment isn't he?
Seriously though, 100HP seems a preposterous amount, considering both
the Yamaha and the Renault are V10s; for a V8 ok.
>and ferrari, 760 at 14500...i doubt it..
>how they have managed to do
>it..1st v-10 engine in their history, and according to this list it
>is more powerful than renault. and renault has used v-10s since 1989.
>14500 rpm..? well it should be more like 17000 8)
Like I said, these figures come from a very reliable source, the best
and most thorough french F1 yearbook; the writers know more about F1
than you and me.
You find it surprising Ferrari have the most power? I don't; Ferrari
have always had a reputation of building the most powerful engines,
which doesn't mean the most driveable or....reliable; Renault have used
V10 since '89 like you pointed out; that's why they excel in reliability
and driveability.
I think many people are fooled by top speeds; the jordans are fastest,
therefore the Peugeot is the most powerful engine....a rather
short-sighted approach. So many other factors come into consideration,
the most important being drag. We know the J196 was a dog, undriveable
through corners, doesn't this indicate a chronic lack of downforce?
And where were Mercedes and Peugeot in '95? Renault dominated every
single race of that season. You think that between '95 and '96, Mercedes
and Peugeot not only closed the (huge) gap, but are now way ahead of
renault in power? Doesn't make sense.
Hockenheim 96: two renault engines on the front row; Renault lead the
race from start to finish.
Monza 96: renaults on front row; Renault and Ferrari lead the race.
Peugeot and Mercedes are catching up, sure, but let's not exaggerate.
Mark Orr
Correction....the Williams/Renault dominated every race....the Bennetions were
in the wilderness....even with the Renault engines...Sorry....but I don't buy
it that the Renaults are so much more powerful....also...why was Ferrari
capable of developing such a powerful engine so quickly??? Well they have more
F1 engine building experience then ANYONE in the WORLD that's why!!! The
number of cyls' is incedental.. the metallurgy, combustion technology and
intake and exhaust is what really matters.....Ferrari has this in spades..
Mark
Barry Posner
i get a little miffed when i see people quoting these numbers willy-nilly.
need i remind people that the horsepower of a motor is not a single
figure, but a continuous curve? the peak horsepower is but a snapshot of a
small part of that curve, and that a typical F1 motor operates mostly over
a range of 10,000 - 15,000 rpm in a race? the profile of the HP curve is a
lot more important than the peak value. a broad flat HP curve is much more
effective than one with a narrow, peaky power band. the other side of the
equation is the torque developed by the engine, which is a better
indication of how well a motor will accelerate a car out of a corner. on a
road course with highly variable speeds, as all F1 tracks are, the torque
profile is much more relavent to the motor's performance. If one is racing
full bore all the time, like the stockers at daytona then a single figure
horsepower number may mean something, but in this NG is is a pointless,
meaningless figure to talk about.
ok, i fell much better now....
bp/ed/ab/ca
R Butler (But...@ilink.com) wrote:
:
: Here are some figures of f1 engines power for 1996 (from a highly
Mark J. Frusciante
Christine Johnston <chr...@dircon.co.uk> scrivened:
->In article <32E207...@ilink.com> R Butler, But...@ilink.com writes:
->>I don't know where Christine got her figures from but 5% seems a hell of
->>a lot.
->It was the info Yamaha/EDL gave at the car launch.
;-)
"So it must be true" - FZ
;-)
Mark
http://www.pipeline.com/~opus
"Don't bother me with your conscientious scruples.
After all, the thing's superb physics." - Enrico Fermi
Richard Perkins
i am looking for a good used 5hp or greater horizontal mount engine to
purchase to build a go-kart with. Please e-mail me if you think you have
something you think I might be interested in
Allen Perkins
ru...@netins.net
Ross Clement
R Butler (But...@ilink.com) wrote:
: per...@bbs.freequote.com wrote:
: >Christine's post mentioned this year's Yamaha will have 5% more HP and the
: >engine has been made stronger for reliability. She also said a new engine
: a lot.
: Here are some figures of f1 engines power for 1996 (from a highly
: respected french F1 yearbook):
:
:
: 690 + 5% = 724.5 ~= 724 HP = Yamaha power for '97 ?? Impressive if true;
: and there's reliability too.
This is only a jump of 34.5 HP. The much trumpeted increase in power of
the Cosworth V8 was about 50HP was it not? I'm not sure that 5% is 'a hell
of a lot' but it's certainly a useful gain. Especially in a year when
some of the major players (Renault, Peugeot) seem to have gone for size and
weight reductions rather than HP increases (and the Yamaha was already
small).
Cheers,
Ross-c
Cristian Sanson
someone still in the forum, I would like to make some answer about 1995 Engine Power, I need max power, max torque, max rpm, and if it's possible (from some newspaper) relative curves chart.
Thanks all
Cristian
Il giorno martedì 21 gennaio 1997 alle 09:00:00 UTC+1 Ross Clement ha scritto:
texas gate
> Good Morning to All,
> someone still in the forum, I would like to make some answer about 1995 Engine Power, I need max power, max torque, max rpm, and if it's possible (from some newspaper) relative curves chart.
> Thanks all
> Cristian
CART had 900 hp turbos during that time.
F1 had 1000 hp turbos in the 80's.