How many active players in iRacing now?
rcgldr
the number of active players has increased quite a bit. Anyone
here know how many active players and how many current iRacing
subscribers there are now? Last I recall it had increased from
around 10,000 to 14,000, quite a few players, but far short of
what would be needed to pay off the original $20 million
investment in 3 or 4 years.
Andrew MacPherson
> Last I recall it had increased from
> around 10,000 to 14,000
I think in excess of 20,000 have now tried the service. I believe there are
something like 16,000 people (or at least accounts, as some people have several it
seems) who've taken part in oval races, and about 15,500 for roads. And obviously
many drivers will have at least tried both.
But how many of those are still paying? And how many of those are driving regularly
enough to help give the service momentum? It's very hard to be sure, and the guy
who used to do a brilliant job of measuring weekly activity on the servers has
given that up.
However he did recently make a special appearance with some stats which seemed to
show that active participation, after rising very significantly over the winter,
has sunk down again as people's special offer periods come to an end. The hosted
side of things also seems to be growing in popularity, but perhaps at the expense
of the main service, effectively soaking up much of boost given by new membership.
Overall the service is definitely busier than it was 6 months ago, but not that
much in my experience outside the Rookie level where new members are earning their
spurs. Numbers there have been very impressive over recent months, even off-peak
when I race, though they've tailed off recently as people leave or graduate to the
main classes.
I rarely see peak hour racing though, and I think anyone racing in the evenings
will be pretty happy with the choice of races and field sizes.
Overall iRacing remains the best darned sim on the planet.... trapped within a
structure which really annoys me much of the time. There are days when I wish I'd
never joined, and there are others when I'd pay twice the price. Just not many of
them. :-) Fortunately the England club is full of names I've "known" for many years,
and the banter in there is good fun. However the thing I still dislike most about
iRacing is the fact that it's completely isolated from the outside world. Open
forums would at least make me feel like I'm not hibernating from the real world
outside.
Others would say it's a nice safe, warm cave, and it's very cold outside... at
least until rF2 arrives to warm things up a little. Hopefully!
Andrew McP
Russell Unger
I did the Beta test and think that this is hands down the best sim out
there, however I dont think the package the way it is done will ever
be profitable without a stand alone box product. I would love if they
would release this as a product I could buy, because simply the cost
of the current setup adding cars tracks etc cost more than what a
boxed product would. My idea would be for them to do a sim product
release it and then charge a monetary fee for online service or
something like that.
Uwe
> I did the Beta test and think that this is hands down the best sim out
> there, however I dont think the package the way it is done will ever
> be profitable without a stand alone box product. I would love if they
> would release this as a product I could buy, because simply the cost
> of the current setup adding cars tracks etc cost more than what a
> boxed product would. My idea would be for them to do a sim product
> release it and then charge a monetary fee for online service or
> something like that.
Couldn't agree more. I also beta tested for 2 years, subscribed
for six months but I always HATED the incident system and the fact
that I only "licensed" the content, but never owned anything of it.
Uwe
rcgldr
I never understood the online service as a business model, unless
they really over-estimated the number of active subscribers when
they started this. Initially the physics still needed tweaking,
and there wasn't a lot of content (cars and tracks), but
there is enough content now to release a stand alone game, and
given the fact that there aren't any other new sim-oriented racing
games being released now (when is rFactor 2 supposed to happen?),
sales should be good for a sim-oriented racing game.
Who knows what will happen. I recall a few predictions that drastic
changes would happen within 3 years of release, and some of those
drastic changes, mostly price reductions and now the hosted
racing, have already occurred.
rcgldr
> structure which really annoys me much of the time.
After the high pricing, the next issue for me is the 45+ minute races. I and
most racing game players aren't willing to commit that much time to a single
game. NR2003 seemed like a time killer with essentially 2 races per hour, and
now iRacing has reduced this to 1 race per hour.
Then again, these issues and more were all posted in the "why aren't you
subscribed to iracing" thread at rsc forums. The thread went inactive 4 or
5 months ago, and now RSC is gone, (although it's name is now used for a
different forum).
Seems like the sim fans are stuck in a waiting game. iRacing pricing and/or
format isn't attractive to many players, don't know if a boxed version will
ever be sold. rFactor 2 may be a year or more away from release. And for the
few that care, Live For Speed is undergoing a "do-over" of it's "tyre physics",
which has essentially stopped progress there for over a year now.
Andrew MacPherson
> I never understood the online service as a business model, unless
> they really over-estimated the number of active subscribers when
> they started this.
Dave Kaemmer did say in one of those SRT interviews that they were surprised at how
small the hardcore market seems to be. It was after that they introduced things
like hosted racing and the participation bonus, which are good steps in the right
direction.
This is, as they have always said, a long term project. To me it's already been
going a long time (including the beta), but I think they mean more like a decade.
Good luck to them. But I feel like I'm hanging onto the back of this project by my
fingernails, not sitting comfortably in the iBus. :-)
There is no doubt though that for pure, satisfying, "right" simulated driving there
is nothing to touch iRacing. So my grip on that bumper is pretty firm for the time
being, even if the only races I've really enjoyed recently are the England Club
races... which are great, but I can't get to very often.
Andrew McP
Niles Anders
they really over-estimated the number of active subscribers when
they started this."
They admit they did overestimate. But they also have ignored non-English
speaking markets. An acquaintance figured out how to count unique keys
for NR2003 that logged into the arena and it was only 55000. A game that
was a revered as that probably gave us a more accurate count of how many
"hardcore" SIM racers there really is in the world. So iR can't ignore
the non-English markets when trying to reach it's membership goals.
rcgldr
> they really over-estimated the number of active subscribers when
> they started this."
> They admit they did overestimate.
> unique keys for NR2003, only 55000.
and that was a game where players could race on open servers running
daytona and talledega with assists on, where just about anyone could
win. A significant part of the NR2003 fan base wasn't hard core sim.
Another indicator:
Less than 9000 GPL Rank entries, and less than 4000 of those negative.
GaryR
>I hope ISI takes their time and does rF2 right. You know, improve the
>tire especially. In reality, ISI and iR should merge. Bring the best of
>both worlds together which might also merge the SIM community.
The real problem I have with ISI and Simbin are the tracks. While some
of them are relatively close some of them are waaaay off. When I run
in iRacing on tracks I have actually raced on i'm amazed at the
accuracy, right down to things like the nasty bumps coming through T17
at Sebring. I don't mind the expense, running with people (for the
most part) that want to run a good clean race. Do I like the iRating
setup as it is? No. I'm hoping as time passes they will continue to
refine how damage is done and how penalties are assessed for minor
contact and offs. For now if you want the best, this is it.
GP
Andrew MacPherson
> A significant part of the NR2003 fan base wasn't hard core sim.
>Less than 9000 GPL Rank entries, and less than 4000 of those negative.
The thing that has always puzzled me about iRacing is how they could have been so
ambitious, so early. It always seemed to me that all the evidence -- both actual
and anecdotal -- pointed to the fact that only a small minority of the relatively
small simming community is half as hardcore as it... ok, as we pretend to be. And
even if we'd like to take it more seriously, life, work, and other hobbies have a
way of eating your time, especially if -- like the vast majority -- you're just
making up the numbers in most online races.
And being a backmarking sim racer is not as attractive to mates down the pub or
potential girlfriends as being a backmarker in real world racing. :-)
I know many people take sim racing seriously, but they are, were, and always will
be a pretty small and opinionated (if the iRacing forums are anything to go by!)
bunch, and relying on the mythical pool of real world racers who are unaware of or
disinterested in simming (despite its long history now and the ease of internet
research) was always going to be a huge gamble.
That's why I still believe in a mass market version and an ultra hardcore version
of iRacing which dedicated enthusiasts can aspire to and pay extra for. But whether
that ever happens or not, iRacing remains a fascinating project to observe. It's
even highly enjoyable to race in. Well, sometimes anyway.
But then that's true of any online racing. That's why programmers gave us AI, so we
can all be legends in our own living rooms... though in my case tweaking AI was
only ever done so I could hang onto the back of the pack for at least a few laps.
:-)
Andrew McP
rcgldr
>>Less than 9000 GPL Rank entries, and less than 4000 of those negative.
>
> The thing that has always puzzled me about iRacing is how they could have been so
> ambitious, so early. It always seemed to me that all the evidence -- both actual
> and anecdotal -- pointed to the fact that only a small minority of the relatively
> small simming community is half as hardcore as it... ok, as we pretend to be. And
> even if we'd like to take it more seriously, life, work, and other hobbies have a
> way of eating your time, especially if -- like the vast majority -- you're just
> making up the numbers in most online races.
> And being a backmarking sim racer is not as attractive to mates down the pub or
> potential girlfriends as being a backmarker in real world racing.
I also recall that they expected some significant influx of new players from the real
world racing community, but that seemed unlikely, because most of the real world racers
are amateurs and spend a lot of their spare time with racing related activities,
such as maintainance in addition to actual time spent on tracks. I'm not sure the
level of realism in a game such as iRacing versus the lack of it in NFS Shift would
make that much difference to a real world racer that would just view both of them
as racing games with different "feels", as opposed to realism.
rcgldr
> of them are relatively close some of them are waaaay off.
For the vast majority of us who will never race the tracks, it doesn't
really make much difference. Eastern Creek was laser scanned, but I'll
never know the difference.
In the case of NFS Shift, they deliberately exaggerated the vertical
variation at Nordschleife, in order to capture the "essence" of the
actual track in a racing game where you only get visual cues instead
of being able to feel how steep a section of track is. It's a trade off
between duplicating a track physically, or trying to duplicate the
"feel" of the track.
Byron Forbes
"Andrew MacPherson" <mcp.a...@DELETTHISgmail.com> wrote in message
news:memo.2010040...@mcp.andrew.c...
> rcg...@cox.net (rcgldr) wrote:
>
> That's why I still believe in a mass market version and an ultra hardcore
> version
> of iRacing which dedicated enthusiasts can aspire to and pay extra for.
> But whether
> that ever happens or not, iRacing remains a fascinating project to
> observe. It's
> even highly enjoyable to race in. Well, sometimes anyway.
Yeah, I'd have to agree with that. I think if they took say, the Mazda
and the Corvette, and made dumbed down arcade versions of both where locking
brakes and spinning the rears was virtually impossible, then that would be a
great stepping stone to the service proper. No setups, 6 tracks and just run
6 week series over and over like the rookie stuff. Maybe call it iRacing
Beginners.
It could be a cheapish service but still showcase the cars graphically
and the tracks - fun for all the family type thing and a bit of a demo.
Byron Forbes
"rcgldr" <rcg...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2udun.57345$y13....@newsfe12.iad...
>>> A significant part of the NR2003 fan base wasn't hard core sim.
> I also recall that they expected some significant influx of new players
> from the real
> world racing community, but that seemed unlikely, because most of the real
> world racers
> are amateurs and spend a lot of their spare time with racing related
> activities,
> such as maintainance in addition to actual time spent on tracks. I'm not
> sure the
> level of realism in a game such as iRacing versus the lack of it in NFS
> Shift would
> make that much difference to a real world racer that would just view both
> of them
> as racing games with different "feels", as opposed to realism.
I have gotten the impression at times that they wish to rub shoulders
with the real world drivers and teams, etc too much. I hope they forget
about all that and simply cater for the sim racing world and let the rest
take care of itself.
It seems at times thet they get a little too caried away with novelty
stuff at the expense of really getting the sim and service right. If the sim
and service and competition structure and policing are good then word of
mouth will do the rest.
Byron Forbes
"Niles Anders" <rea...@flog.com> wrote in message
news:DJ1un.37232$Ht4....@newsfe20.iad...
> iR desperately needs Spanish and Portuguese language portals for their
> service.
What does that mean exactly? I mean, what stuff would you suggest be
translated?
PlowBoy
I think you are fooling yourself that people "not involved in any way shape
of form, should somehow have a voice? you can, get an account and join in,
it is "a big !%king deal" then really you have not much of a conversation
base with people who inherently believe this to be true. It is like any
club, start your own or join ours, but I don't try to take my club and ruin
it.
I still believe the strength of iRacing is the ignoring of the "gamerz
community" to a large extent. sure I might have offended some on here, but
it is more complicated than that. I don't see the need for pissing contests
from 12 YO kids trying to run on iRacing because it is cheap enough for them
too. I like the "little bit of elitist" in simming, but it is more
complicated than just that statement. Just like racing discussion groups I
have with Motocross, and other sports, it is and will be kind of exclusive,
when we have riders meetings, and we as a group might discuss anything
including racing, last thing I want to hear is bullshit from people who are
only involved via their mouths (posts/texts). We have one common thing, in
this case racing iRacing, (other than we breath air and have use of a
computer). that is what makes the conversation have merits that they don't
have with your uptight neighbor and shit.
"Niles Anders" <rea...@flog.com> wrote in message
news:DJ1un.37232$Ht4....@newsfe20.iad...
> "However the thing I still dislike most about iRacing is the fact that
> it's completely isolated from the outside world. Open forums would at
> least make me feel like I'm not hibernating from the real world outside."
>
> I don't understand the private nature of the forums either. It seems to
> me, if they would open them that the potential member could connect to the
> iR community easier.
>
> "Others would say it's a nice safe, warm cave, and it's very cold
> outside... at least until rF2 arrives to warm things up a little.
> Hopefully"
>
> I hope ISI takes their time and does rF2 right. You know, improve the tire
> especially. In reality, ISI and iR should merge. Bring the best of both
> worlds together which might also merge the SIM community.
>
> iR desperately needs Spanish and Portuguese language portals for their
> service.
>
Niles Anders
jumping to that conclusion. If you are looking for an argument, call our
ex wife.
Niles Anders
rcgldr
>>> from the real world outside.
> I think you are fooling yourself that people "not involved in any way shape of form, should somehow have a voice?
Out of all the reasons people are not iRenters, the private forum would
be the bottom of that list.
> elitist
The only elitist part of iRacing is the rental fee. No talent required,
just drive safely and regardless of how pathetically slow you are, they'll
advance you to the next class. Like any sim-oriented racing game, about 10%
of the players are competive, and the rest are just there for fun runs,
sort of the equivalent of filler backmarkers at real races.
If there's any point to this thread, it's that iRacing over-estimated
the number of subscribers. How that affect the service in the long run,
and/or affects the release of a boxed game, remains to be seen. They've
already lowered prices and now offer hosted racing, a drastic change
from what appears to be the original plan.
Plowboy
different, plenty of back markers and wannabe's, driving shit, plenty of
rich dumbasses out there as well... plenty of people spending money faster
than they're gaining skillz, racing above their head.
I'm just thinking it models life well, sure, it is not the "nascar levels"
for everyone, but I'm not trying to keep up with million dollar teams
either, as I would be in real life... I race with people at my skill level,
and love it... some of you might say I'm good some wont, who gives a shit?
really? I'm having my $9.00 per month worth of fun, 3 or four nights a
week, shit I cant even enjoy that many hours worth of moves for that, even
if you watch old shit on Showtime it is 15 bucks a month, add to that beer
and cheezits, lol, iRacing, it is still fucking cheap. Hell, go race a
"rental go-cart" track stuff, how much you think that is? it was 20 bucks
for F'ing 10 minutes. We have a generation of people that think anything
that is 'good' is going to be free? I don't get that attitude, nor can I
figure out where you guys got it, I mean shit, Cadillacs cost more than
Chevys and more than beetles (the old ones). Nicer houses cost more than
shit trap houses, go figure. where did you ever see it the other way
around?
"rcgldr" <rcg...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:%5Pun.59072$y13....@newsfe12.iad...
rcgldr
Not compared to other racing games. Making an anlogy between iRacing
with other hobbies would be like claiming that some customized corolla
that cost $100,000 is cheap compared to an airplane. Even it it's the
best corolla ever made, most wouldn't want to spend $100,000 on it.
Sorry for the iRanting here, was just curious as to how iRacing was
going, and like many players hoping for a boxed version someday.
Russell Unger
<choc...@caramel.com.au> wrote:
>
>"Andrew MacPherson" <mcp.a...@DELETTHISgmail.com> wrote in message
>news:memo.2010040...@mcp.andrew.c...
>> rcg...@cox.net (rcgldr) wrote:
>>
>> That's why I still believe in a mass market version and an ultra hardcore
>> version
>> of iRacing which dedicated enthusiasts can aspire to and pay extra for.
>> But whether
>> that ever happens or not, iRacing remains a fascinating project to
>> observe. It's
>> even highly enjoyable to race in. Well, sometimes anyway.
>
Don't they now have the NASCAR license? The money they could make
alone off an Microsoft type deal with Flight Sim with that Licenese
alone would curb a lot of the expenses they had to undertake to
purchase the engine etc for the game itself! Something like, Nascar
Racing 2010, Nascar Racing 2010 Pro, and Nascar Racing 2010 Deluxe!
Each package having unique series etc, with the deluxe containing all,
and mark up the price for the deluxe to 99.99 or something!
Byron Forbes
Spanish - what about all the other languages?
My attitude on this is simple. If they (countries with different
languages) want to keep their own languages (and not have English as a
compulsory subject in their schools) then they can do the work for all that.
Screw 'em!
As an iRacing customer I'd be unhappy to see my money be spent on that
crap!
This was talked about at length on the iRacing forum and it is clear
that people can do this stuff themselves anyway. All they need is at leadt
one person in their group that speaks English so that ant anomilies can be
tidied up.
Again, not my, or the English speaking world's, problem!
"Niles Anders" <rea...@flog.com> wrote in message
news:57Lun.94259$mn6....@newsfe07.iad...
Byron Forbes
>> iRacing, it is still cheap.
>
> Not compared to other racing games. Making an anlogy between iRacing
> with other hobbies would be like claiming that some customized corolla
> that cost $100,000 is cheap compared to an airplane. Even it it's the
> best corolla ever made, most wouldn't want to spend $100,000 on it.
A simple case of getting what you pay for.
iRacing is not perfect but it's a lot closer to being so than any other
offering.
rcgldr
EA got the license after NR2003. Then NR2003 was pulled from
the shelves of retail stores, but is/was still being sold from
online stores, which didn't quite make sense.
EA lost the exclusive license starting 2010. No one has an exclusive
license now, it's shared between EA (Days of Thunder), Sony PS3
(Grand Turismo 5), and iRacing, which has a Nascar based series.
rcgldr
> license now, it's shared between EA (Days of Thunder), Sony PS3
> (Grand Turismo 5), and iRacing, which has a Nascar based series.
Days of Thunder is to be an XBOX game, different than the EA game with
a similar name.
PlowBoy
you don't think there are fair comparisons, I think there is when you are
realistic about it. the problem is I believe you or they have unrealistic
expectations, on all counts, be it iRacing vs real life, or modded corolla
vs airplane.
that is your personal preference kicking the corolla harder, I say
personally your right, and wrong...
If someone expects me to pay 100,000 for a plane that I cant drive door to
door from my house to work, to me the plane is worthless... now it might
become more "less worthless" as it can save me time or money, say my job
took me from NY to Florida everyday, then there would be a fair comparison.
I'm just tired of each post about iRacing is about elitism, or it "aint free
yet", when in reality it is just that they hate it and try to say they are
being fair about how they come to that conclusion, it is delusional.
"rcgldr" <rcg...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:tOSun.76154$9b5....@newsfe01.iad...