TOCA 2 design - your input please...
Gavin Raeburn
Official announcement from Codemasters:
We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas.
Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be
interested to hear posts from you on the following two points:
1, What new features would you like to see in the game. I should point
out that _every_ message posted in this news group has already been
read and the points raised addressed, so there is no need to re-post
old points/messages. i.e. we will have native graphics card versions
of TOCA 2 including Glide, all the tracks unlocked from the beginning,
car set-up, pits, mirrors, arcade/simulation modes etc...
2, What hardware problems did you have with TOCA 2 and what solutions,
if any, did you find. (controllers, graphics cards, sound cards,
general machine problems etc).
Thanks,
Gavin Raeburn
TOCA 2 producer
Richie
You must implement a much wider range of control options i.e. us ch
virtual pilot and pro pedals users are still driving automatic touring
cars with the acc/brake on buttons.....no fun:( I vote all developers
should look at the end user requests....good initiative youse
guys....p.s. i sure hope colin mcrae has support for ch pedals
etc!!!!!!!!!!
Joe
a@a.a (Gavin Raeburn) wrote:
>2, What hardware problems did you have with TOCA 2 and what solutions,
>if any, did you find. (controllers, graphics cards, sound cards,
>general machine problems etc).
I never did get a satisfactory steering experience with my
Thrustmaster T2 (using an ordinary P200, 3Dfx, Soundblaster 16
soundcard - also tried a Thrustmaster variable speed gamecard whcih
was even worse). I tried every trick people suggested - latest
DirectX, using Thrustmaster Propanel, latest TOCA patch. It got
somewhat better, but stil leans left enough that the car is unstable
and has a tendency to lurch violently. It basically made the game
unplayable for me.
It's time to face reality - DirectInput sucks. You need to have custom
joystick code that bypasses DirectInput completely and reads the
joystick port directly, like papyrus has done in Grand Prix Legends.
I'm convinced that's the only way you'll ever get really high quality
defice input in Windows95.
Joe
Chris Wells
Hi,
I have (over) played the 3dfx PC version of this game. Some suggestions,
1. Track editor
2. Failures, such as suspension/tyres (including option to turn this off of
course)
3. Detailed car set-ups as already mentioned, take a look at the playstation
game "Gran Tourismo" I think this is one of the better driving games as
handling characteristics go. In Toca 1, 9 times out of 10 once you "lost"
the car it would go straight off the track.
4. I know that the point of the game is to emulate the British Touring car
championship, but how about street type races included?? there was the
lavaland track remember!
I have seen the screenshots on game-online, looks like I will need a voodoo2
and a PII to make it look that good?
My current system is
Intel P233 mmx
Orchid 3DFX
Awe 64 value
128mb Ram
Logitech wingman light joystick
I had no problems setting up or running Toca 1.
Chris Wells
Andrew MacPherson
Hi Gavin,
I bought Toca when it first came out in the UK after looking forward to it
for a long time. IM(very H)O you got a lot of things right. The sense of
racing was very good, and the fx were often excellent. But the promised
(in reviews at least) realistic driving model just wasn't there for me.
I'm sure you guys have spent a while looking at GPL. Well, I certainly
don't want another late 60's GP car, but I'd kill for a Touring Car sim
which made me feel as if I was really in charge of the car in the way GPL
manages. Heck, I'll drive *any* sim vehicle as long as it gives me that
feeling of being in control of a "real" vehicle. (Not sure I'd want a
Massey Ferguson sim, but I think you know what I mean :-)
Of course Toca1 may be giving me that already and I just don't appreciate
it, but adding car setups and so on will mean nothing (and are often
ignored anyway) if the driver doesn't get that sense of control.
In short (which was all you wanted in the 1st place ;-) Give me a driving
model I can really believe in and you can have my 35 quid now.
Andrew McP
PS Actually the tractor sim might be a real hit. Anyone fancy a
competition for ploughing the straightest furrow?
Oh, ok... suit yourselves then :-)
Rob Goodison
Hi Gav,
Great idea using the newsgroup as a sounding board...wish more developers
would take notice.
The features that I would like to see considered are:-
1. Force feedback support.
2. An variable difficulty setting, so you can race as hard or as easy as you
want. People have a wide range of abilities, so cater for them- have a
variable difficulty setting so everyone can get the most out of the game.
3. Sort out the cars handling. With a GP1 ( not the best controller
admittedly ), even on low steering sensitivity, it is very easy to spin the
car. For accurate handling, the steering should be made heavier, although if
there was an option to change this more accurately, it would suit everyone.
4. Variable resolution settings, rather than the default 640x480. Would love
to see it be able to run in 1024x768 on a SLI-enabled Voodoo2.
5. 3d audio
More to follow shortly...
Rob.
Gavin Raeburn wrote in message <35a0d549.20346108@isdn>...
>Official announcement from Codemasters:
>
>We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas.
>Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be
>interested to hear posts from you on the following two points:
>
>1, What new features would you like to see in the game. I should point
>out that _every_ message posted in this news group has already been
>read and the points raised addressed, so there is no need to re-post
>old points/messages. i.e. we will have native graphics card versions
>of TOCA 2 including Glide, all the tracks unlocked from the beginning,
>car set-up, pits, mirrors, arcade/simulation modes etc...
>
>2, What hardware problems did you have with TOCA 2 and what solutions,
>if any, did you find. (controllers, graphics cards, sound cards,
>general machine problems etc).
>
Jason Monds
Gavin Raeburn wrote:
> 1, What new features would you like to see in the game.
> Thanks,
>
> Gavin Raeburn
> TOCA 2 producer
Hi Gavin,
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to play TOCA1. The demo looked great
on a 3Dfx card and I was anticipating the release in Canada. Too bad it
is sooo hard to find.
My only suggestions are:
1. Please make it available in Western Canada for Christmas as well.
I actually will buy it if I can find it.
2. Design it for internet play. Allow a reduced number of packets and
such.
Jason,
(Remove no extra spork when replying)
Paul Jones
Gavin,
Great news!!!
TOCA is very special - certainly my very favorite sim. Remember you can't
please all the people all the time - some people want complex sims where
half the work is done in setups and some people want arcade games that are
fun but bear little relation to reality. TOCA is special (almost unique)
because it fits in so nicely between these two. It is realistic without
being complex and you can race in realistic races without a degree in car
mecanics. So please don't kill off all the good things in TOCA and ignore
the very many of us who love TOCA in part because of the lovely balance it
strikes. Also BTCC is not like F1, Indy, Le Mans, Nascar or Rally and
certainly not Need For Speed or Grand Turismo. Please don't be influenced
by people who understand other formulas in great depth but not necessarily
Touring Cars.
What TOCA 2 should have is:
1) Race and time-trial replays from above, outside, inside etc.
2) Real damage (optional) and not just visual.
3) Record best splits so we can improve and review our times.
4) A non-crackable checksum algoritm.
5) Don't include the flexmobile in the best laps or your website hall of
fame. It's not realistic.
6) Don't make the AI drivers so foolishly aggressive or punish them with
warnings and spins.
7) Update to the 1998 season with the Nescafe Blend 37 Renault's etc.
8) Include pit-stops with option of changing side wheels or front wheels
and reflect the choice in the performance of the car.
9) Improve the graphics but don't lose the feel of speed.
10) Support for wheels that support independant brake/throttle.
11) Tyre changes as only setttings.
12) Variable weather to tempt us into the pits for a tyre change when it
turns inclement mid-race.
13) In race commentary (optional).
14) Option to turn off ghost car completely.
15) Make the AI drivers qualification times realistic (39.19 round Brands
Hatch Indy - the lap record is 44 something) and in line with their more
realistic drive times.
16) Don't force us to jettison all the skills we have learnt on TOCA 1 -
ie keep the basic driving and physics model broadly similar but fix the
problem where the front wheel drive cars sometimes behave like rear wheel
ones. And make the four drive Audis behave as such.
17) Save best laps achieved in qualification and not just time-trial ones.
18) Allow best lap to be loaded from a directory of choice. It's a pain
having to faff around backing up own best laps and copying downloaded ones
in directory.
19) Optionally give us more laps to qualify from.
20) Make all levels of championship hard level not easy ones easy and
later ones harder. Or let us select the degree of difficulty of the
championship.
21) Have the two races at a meet a sprint race and a feature race just
like the 1998 season.
22) Include the independants and perhaps change and improve the car
performance for the works models during the season but not for the
independants so that they fall off down the ranking during the season just
like the real thing.
23) Don't kick drivers out of the championship at least not out of new
only hard level one.
24) Telemetry so we can analyse are race performance (not out race setup).
25) Brake lights on ghost car so we can see where it's braking.
26) Flags yellow blue etc just like real race.
27) Have lapped cars let you pass and certainly not try and knock you off.
28) Road graphics that show the tyre marks of other drivers.
29) Real time rendered cars.
And what TOCA should not lose are:
1) The level of driving realism it has. People claim that once you begin
to lose the car there's no way back. I say pratice more. The tyres do
squeal and the car does jerk before you lose it but only fractionally so
and you CAN recover and if you start to spin - you just have to develop
the reactions and knowledge of what to do. Please don't make it too easy.
2) The simplicity of the interface. Please don't bury us with layers of
car setups. Some enjoy this - but there are plenty of sims to satisfy
them. In any case how can you model the setting when the car parts are
constantly changing through the season. I want a realistic sim without all
that. Please leave us TOCA and leave the complex setting to the
super-sims. Let us drive world rating laps without having to get under the
bonnet (hood).
3) Don't make it arcadey like Grand Turismo, Need-for-speed or NICE -
there are plenty of them as well. I hate the cartoon skies, lavaland and
and all that. Please leave them as optional extras and leave us models of
real tracks, real cars and real championships. By all means add extra
tracks. How about the Aussie Touring Car championship - that's really
close to the British one. But is you do include it setup the cars to match
it and keep the Aussie cars to the Aussie championship and the British
ones to the BTCC.
4) Preserve the same car handling in easy modes as hard ones. Don't make
an easy handling mode and a difficult one.
5) Don't get drawn down silly paths like off-road racing. Make people buy
Colin McRae rally if they want that. Or some arcade game.
I'll probably think of more things immediately I hit the send button. I
would be more than willing to give you as much assistance as I can. If
you're looking for beta-testers....
Thanks very much for TOCA - you've given a lot of us a lot of pleasure.
PJ
Gavin Raeburn wrote:
> Official announcement from Codemasters:
>
> We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas.
> Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be
> interested to hear posts from you on the following two points:
>
> 1, What new features would you like to see in the game. I should point
> out that _every_ message posted in this news group has already been
> read and the points raised addressed, so there is no need to re-post
> old points/messages. i.e. we will have native graphics card versions
> of TOCA 2 including Glide, all the tracks unlocked from the beginning,
> car set-up, pits, mirrors, arcade/simulation modes etc...
>
> 2, What hardware problems did you have with TOCA 2 and what solutions,
> if any, did you find. (controllers, graphics cards, sound cards,
> general machine problems etc).
>
Paul Jones
Oh yeah, and get rid of the grannies that drive round the circuit at 20mph
when you trying to get a pole! Either that or let us choose when to go out and
have the AI drivers on the circuit during qualifying, driving at the speeds
they would need for the qualifying times they are notching up.
Paul Jones
Corection to point 20:
20) Let us select the degree of difficulty of the championship.When we select
hard make all levels of championship hard level not the early races easy and
later ones harder.
In case I get misunderstood I am not suggesting off-road racing is silly. What
I meant was that it's silly to have highly-tuned circuit BTCC Touring Cars
drive off-road. I shall be buying, and almost certainly enjoying Colin McRae
Rally.
PJ
Claude Leclerc
- Cockpit view with working gauge.
Craig
Thanks for asking the ppl that Drive.......
I think u should include a paint editor . I have found some heaps
better looking car paint jobs on the net than were provided with Gp2
and F1rs , Or at liest make it easy for other ppl to make batch
files to easly patch existing carsets, I think this would give your
new game a much greater live span
My 2 cents worth
Craig
Isaac Wilson
Sell it in the United States!!! In the Washington D.C. area, not just
mail-order.
Isaac Wilson
R/C Adrenalin "...some play golf, we race r/c touring cars..."
http://www.geocities.com/eureka/gold/7902/110scale.html
Mike Turner@Herne Bay.Kent.UK
On July 06 1998, you wrote:
> We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas.
> Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be
> interested to hear posts from you on the following two points:
>
> 1, What new features would you like to see in the game.
The option to "not" have a ghost appear on the second lap or any lap for
that matter when hotlapping, unless of course you have set one to chase
via a "ghost select" option.
Very off-puting to have a ghost, and a very solid one at that, sliding
about under you while trying to beat your previous best lap.
I could do with some greater sensitivity adjustment for steering using a
TM GP1, i have to edit dinput.dll to 0% atm to get somewhere close to
correct.
Better visibility from the "in cockpit" view even if it means removing
the "A" posts from view.
Look at F1RS for how to do some things and how not to do others<s>
Speed up the track loads please.
Regards.
Mike.....also available for Beta or Alpha testing!
--
Mike Turner@Herne Bay.Kent.UK using OUI ver 1.8
06:38 on 07/07/98
From sunny Herne Bay, Kent.UK.
mailable also at
10071...@compuserve.com
remove NO-SPAM to mail me.
Nick E
> We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas.
> Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be
> interested to hear posts from you on the following two points:
Well done for asking the ng for feedback.
I'd like to see TOCA extended beyond the BTCC if at all possible. A
selection of some of the better international tracks, such as Bathurst
here in Australia would be cool. Support for full length endurance races
(allowing for pitstop strategies) at the venues that run them would also
be nice.
I know it's a tall order but you asked <g>
Cheers, Nick
Steve Ferguson
1) If you include bonus tracks and cars, make them proper cars and
tracks. I am going to buy Colin McRae rally because it has the
RS200, Escort RS and Audi Sport Quattro. So dump the Flexmobile
and Tank and give us an old Mini Cooper, Lotus Cortina or
Sierra Cosworth. And put them on Spa for the bonus track, not
on Lavaland.
2) Proper damage.
3) Make those helmets smaller. The pre-release screenshots look
like the cars are being driven by Power Rangers.
Stephen
Nathan Wong
>Official announcement from Codemasters:
>
>We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas.
>Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be
>interested to hear posts from you on the following two points:
>
>1, What new features would you like to see in the game. I should point
>out that _every_ message posted in this news group has already been
>read and the points raised addressed, so there is no need to re-post
>old points/messages. i.e. we will have native graphics card versions
>of TOCA 2 including Glide, all the tracks unlocked from the beginning,
>car set-up, pits, mirrors, arcade/simulation modes etc...
>
1. in-game car editor so that we can create carsets for the Australian
and German Super Touring Car
2. more realistic damage - engine blowups...tyre failures...maybe oil
on the track?
3. if possible, different in car views for the different cars....some
with column mounted shifters, some with console mounted, and an active
Pi dash would be great.
4. ability to setup the car (maybe like a really serious sim)
>2, What hardware problems did you have with TOCA 2 and what solutions,
>if any, did you find. (controllers, graphics cards, sound cards,
>general machine problems etc).
>
A whole lot less sensitivity for joystick users (even on the low
setting its far too twitchy.
Also ability to change resolutions (e.g. for V2 users - but you
probably already thought of that)
And the most important part
BATHURST. I know its not part of the BTCC, but given a lot of BTCC
racers are coming this year, as well as Australian, and maybe a few
New Zealand, German and Italian drivers, it would help to bring the
game to a more worldly audience (the same as Super Touring racing).
--
Nathan Wong http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors
- Super Touring - Alfa Romeo -
Alfa...@pobox.com - Club Cars - Formula One -
- V8Supercars - CART -
Andrew Fielden
>
> [Good points]
Great ideas Paul, I'm on your wavelength. I'd like to second the idea of
keeping the spirit of the game and not introduce tons of setup options.
TOCA is all about wheel-to-wheel racing, great handling cars, and a real
immersive driving experience. Codemasters got the balance just right IMHO.
My only concern is that there will be so many new features that my ageing
P133 won't be able to cope! Can Gavin provide any idea on what system
spec they will be pitching at ?
--
Andrew Fielden.
UK.
Spudgun
>1, What new features would you like to see in the game. I should point
>out that _every_ message posted in this news group has already been
>read and the points raised addressed, so there is no need to re-post
>old points/messages. i.e. we will have native graphics card versions
>of TOCA 2 including Glide, all the tracks unlocked from the beginning,
>car set-up, pits, mirrors, arcade/simulation modes etc...
I assume you've already read my post where I outlined all the things I'd
like to see in the game. I'd just like to say thanks for taking notice.
Cheers! Long live Codemasters :)
--
Spudgun
Spudgun
<l...@alphalink.com.au> writes
--
Spudgun
Andrew Fielden
>
> Oh yeah, and get rid of the grannies that drive round the circuit at 20mph
> when you trying to get a pole! Either that or let us choose when to go out and
> have the AI drivers on the circuit during qualifying, driving at the speeds
> they would need for the qualifying times they are notching up.
>
On the subject of qualifying, does anyone actually manage to
qualify on pole consistently. The only race I got it was Croft,
which is towards the end of the season. Usually I qualify midway
down the pack.
I can see why CM made qualifying so difficult, because from pole
you can then blast away from the pack and win with ease.
--
Andrew Fielden.
UK.
Spudgun
<ferg...@me.queensu.ca> writes
>3) Make those helmets smaller. The pre-release screenshots look
>like the cars are being driven by Power Rangers.
I don't think the helmets look particularly big in the screenshots. They
just need the colours dimming down a bit IMO.
--
Spudgun
yuss
race to race in the next one,
Not realistic.
2. Save game between heats. Sometime I only have time to race in one
heat.
3. Let us choose the number of laps we want to run.
SELL IT IN THE US.
F1Filter
Most pit boards displayed to drivers will show the time gap to the person in
front of them, or if they are leading, the interval to the 2nd place car.
Although TOCA did show the time interval to the person ahead of you, I dont
think it ever showed you anything if you were in the lead.
Minor thing to point out I know. But it does help to know how far you are
ahead of the field when you are in a long race, and are busy passing
backmarkers trying to make time for that mandatory pit stop.
F1Filter
P.S. Another vote to have it simultaneously released in Europe and the States
as well
Peter Gagg
> Official announcement from Codemasters:
>
> We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas.
> Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be
> interested to hear posts from you on the following two points:
>
> 1, What new features would you like to see in the game. I should
point
> out that _every_ message posted in this news group has already been
> read and the points raised addressed, so there is no need to re-post
> old points/messages. i.e. we will have native graphics card versions
> of TOCA 2 including Glide, all the tracks unlocked from the
beginning,
> car set-up, pits, mirrors, arcade/simulation modes etc...
>
> 2, What hardware problems did you have with TOCA 2 and what
solutions,
> if any, did you find. (controllers, graphics cards, sound cards,
> general machine problems etc).
My feature list would be as follows, Not necessarily in this
order.....
1) An option to turn *off* the ghost car would be nice?
2) car set-ups? (eg: tyres, gear ratios, suspension, steering lock,
fuel load, etc) and the game should remember the car set-ups.
3) Replay mode?
4) Option to edit the car (and track) graphics?
5) Option to drive all around the circuit, even off road areas?
6) Damage accurately modelled?
7) Save game facility (anywhere in the game)
8-)
*Peter* 8-)
(NB: remove asterix to e-mail)
CHIPZ UK
strategic pitstops, car failure, CAR SETUPS, sprint and feature races, pit
radio link, svga cockpit, windows that you can see shattered from inside view,
no stupid bonus tracks and cars - real tracks and cars, ability to drive where
you want - no out of bounds.
Hope This Helps (if it is genuine).
Codemasters produce the best games, by far.
The Unofficial Colin McRae Rally Players Zone
By Keith Quinton
Cheats, Hints, Guides, Fastest Times, Championship (PC)
News, Demo, Updates, FAQ's mailing list and more .
http://members.aol.com/mcraerally/cmrally/pages/home.html
Jon Guest
>Official announcement from Codemasters:
>
>We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas.
>Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be
>interested to hear posts from you on the following two points:
>
>1, What new features would you like to see in the game. I should point
>out that _every_ message posted in this news group has already been
>read and the points raised addressed, so there is no need to re-post
>old points/messages. i.e. we will have native graphics card versions
>of TOCA 2 including Glide, all the tracks unlocked from the beginning,
>car set-up, pits, mirrors, arcade/simulation modes etc...
Hi, I am mostly interested in the "heavier" sims but would definitely
plan to buy TOCA2 if it proved playable, if it at least gave some
indication that a fair amount of skill, precision and experience is
needed to do a (fast) lap. If you can understand my point, people
should have to know how to drive a *touring car* and not "Toca".
So my suggestions would be mainly for the car physics. Things I don't
like about Toca are how FWD (front wheel drive) tourers can go
spinning to the inside after a corner, (such as the 1st at Brands and
the one after the Kraner (sp?) curves at Donnington) as if the car is
loose, ie: RWD. This spin would be acceptable if done like Moeller
(sp?) in the Audi last week. He got on the power too early,
*understeered* onto the rumbles and grass and went spinning across the
road..
Also what about the speed scale? Do I have to spend as long on the
brake pedal at any bend in Toca than the real guys do. Seems most
turns are like Sega Rally, easy left, or medium right.
How about some physics for locking up the brakes, or losing control of
the rear if you brake hard and are steering.
Better use of neutral and first to get some wheel spin at the starts.
Next would have to be damage. I have no complaints with the original -
it suited it, but if you were to implement my and others' ideas, this
would need to be changed. The current damage model seems very
two-faced! Bumping an opponent even really softly immediately shatters
their rear screen, while full-on head-on's may at worst remove front
bumpers and the bonnet. It would be great to have a damage model that
would let you rip up the ends pretty bad, bumpers that hang off would
be cool... A few different degrees of dents in the doors....
In addition to bodywork damage, some kind of suspension damage would
need to be modeled at each wheel. That way hitting other objects at
speed risk ending your day. At the mo a Toca car has a suspension
built of materials unknown to man. :)
Contact between cars. The pack racing is indeed interesting, but the
pushing 'n shoving has a nasty unpredictable/unrealistic feel about
it. I feel that if I get punted and spun, I can't see why as when near
enough the same thing happens again, I'm fine.
Please make Toca2 the 1st to have accurately roll-able saloons. The
flip back up would be fine, but for the option I would play, I would
love to see the ability to get the car upside down, and even if it
does nothing more but grind to halt, it would be really good IMO to
see (like the TV shots when you win) of "you" climbing out and running
to the fence/tyre barrier, into retirement.
I have heard in previous posts about the Independants, that would be
great. Also would be great, at least in the sim mode, is having a
choice of magically joining the works teams, or having to pick a 2nd
hand tourer and run a season in the Total/Independant cup. You could
then include a small paintkit option specifically for this. No
painting up your works-drive Laguna/S40 etc.. but if you pick a '96/97
Caverlier or Accord, you could choose say a scheme (like two tone,
stripes etc..) and then primary and assocaite sponser. No real need I
see for a full, every pixel paintkit like Papy, but perhaps an import
sponser sheet, with the game stamping your imported logos in the usual
places for you. Also choose your number.
I don't think I would really care for a full financial implementation.
It would be good just to "be" a privateer who can afford to run a
season and maybe can only afford to "suspension damage" 3 cars. Then
at the end of the year he could be offered a works drive, from who and
how many depending on the performance that year, or just remain a Matt
Neal strifing to get on the podium overall, with an
underpowered/developed car...
As with all above, I would buy Toca2 if it was just Toca1, with new
updates teams/cars/format etc.. IF it had all the above bolted on, and
you could switch between the game mode and the sim mode in the
options.
Everytime I hear a game like Toca released I just hope there is enough
in there to mean 4 to 6 weeks of learning is necessary, then IMO you
really feel like you've achieved something when you win. That's what
PC games should be about IMO. Winning on my 3rd go at Toca gives *me*
no incentive to drive it much more... I think the only non-Papy title
that has done this is F1RS, yet I haven't the power to run that right
now...but I will.
So strife to make something of Toca2 that'll make me hooked, keep up
the formula that has made the PS/Arcady feel of Toca1 so popular, and
I doubt there will be many racing fans with a PC without this title.
>2, What hardware problems did you have with TOCA 2 and what solutions,
>if any, did you find. (controllers, graphics cards, sound cards,
>general machine problems etc).
>
>Thanks,
>
>Gavin Raeburn
>TOCA 2 producer
Apart from the steering that someone has already covered well, (which
I found it just far too sensitive) everything else seemed to work fine
for my friend. I guess some of the Hard-disk acessing seemed to go on
for ever, otherwise fine.
All the best, and I hope this newsgroup proves to help the success of
Toca2 in some small way....
Jon Guest.
Real Email: jon....@dial.pipex.com
Visit the CCG NASCAR2 AI Project @
- http://www.simproject.com/ccg/
"Although this world is a crazy ride,
You just take your seat and just hold on tight"
Koran
accelerate and over steers when you lift up. I don't know if the BTCC
drivers use left foot braking, like the rally drivers do, to bring the
rear end around or not. If they do, that would be a nice feature to have.
My hw is:
PII 300
Sierra Screaming 3D
Pure 3D2
Thrustmaster Nascar Pro (to be replaced with forced feed back wheel when
available, Saitek's maybe?).
BTW has anyone seen the Saitek R4 wheel in real life? It looks pretty
cool. Check out their site www.saitek.com.
Koran
The man who was caught by surprise when his SAAB 96 over steered into a
pine tree.
Paul Jones
though. You're a better racer than me. I can always get on pole and win on medium
difficulty but only I can only win 50% or less of the time on hard mode. The
championship seems to be set at medium up until the last three races, by which time
I'm near enough uncatchable. I don't bother with it any more I just race on hard
mode or time trials now. I've done 39.60 at Brands on a time trial but that wouldn't
get me on pole!
PJ
Andrew Fielden wrote:
> Paul Jones wrote:
> >
> > Oh yeah, and get rid of the grannies that drive round the circuit at 20mph
> > when you trying to get a pole! Either that or let us choose when to go out and
> > have the AI drivers on the circuit during qualifying, driving at the speeds
> > they would need for the qualifying times they are notching up.
> >
>
Paul Jones
upgraded to a 200MHz overdrive and bought a Voodoo 1. Now it flies. I suspect
that even this spec will be left behind by the sims coming up in the pipeline.
PJ
Andrew Fielden wrote:
Paul Jones
when the back goes round when you should be pulling from the front.
PJ
Paul Jones
definitely very tricky to try and find the button that's shows you where
the car behind is while approaching a slow corner. Even if you manage
this, the view takes up the entire screen so by the time you discover that
you need to drive defensively you've probably lost the racing line anyway
and defensive driving becomes less important than just staying on the
track. In reality you have to rely on the sound of the engine of the car
behind you.
PJ
Gavin Raeburn wrote:
> Official announcement from Codemasters:
>
> We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas.
> Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be
> interested to hear posts from you on the following two points:
>
> 1, What new features would you like to see in the game. I should point
> out that _every_ message posted in this news group has already been
> read and the points raised addressed, so there is no need to re-post
> old points/messages. i.e. we will have native graphics card versions
> of TOCA 2 including Glide, all the tracks unlocked from the beginning,
> car set-up, pits, mirrors, arcade/simulation modes etc...
>
Matthias Buesing
Why do most of you quote THE COMPLETE MESSAGE AGAIN AND AGAIN ???
Can you imagine the costs invoked by that crap ???
Thanx in advance !!
Also, man mailt sich...
.\\atze [ FmMW2109 - FmMB2139 ]
*email*: bue...@gmx.net *SMS/Mobil*: 0177 - 2658188
*home* : http://www.powerteam.de/ph/buesing/
Nathan Wong
<Pa...@tpjones.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>I agree about the front wheel drive modelling. As you say, it is upsetting
>when the back goes round when you should be pulling from the front.
>PJ
If you watch a ST race, you can see lots of oversteering FWD cars. Its
not impossible, FWD doesnt equal understeer all the time.
Mike Ba
hasn't. So..
I race on TEN with Papyrus's nascar2 against 20+ humans in real time.
Nothing beets racing something that's unpredictable as apposed to the
computer generated opponants that after a while the human knows exacly
what the computer is going to do next and can take advantage of it and
win every race. That does get boring after a while.
I would buy the product and kill my TEN account if there was a sim
setup on a network where as I could race against many humans like TEN
using a sim that races on road coarses and not ovals. Till then, I will
*NOT* buy another racing sim.
Gavin Raeburn wrote:
>
> Official announcement from Codemasters:
>
> We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas.
> Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be
> interested to hear posts from you on the following two points:
snip..
--
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing
MikeBa on the TEN network
HTTP://HOME.EZNET.NET/~MIKEBA
Racing online with help from...
Race Communications Association of Wakins Glen, N.Y.
Http://members.xoom.com/rca/toc.htm
Holodyne Engineering of Rochester, N.Y.
ke...@fife-n-drum.org
robj...@dial.pipex.com
If those screenshots published at www.gamespot.co.uk are representitive then
Toca 2 will be a major step towards photorealistic racing sims!
What hardware was being used to get that level of detail and what fps
can we expect ?
Oh yeh, WIREPLAY!
Rob
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Andrew Fielden
responded in this thread? There have been a lot of very good
suggestions proposed, and some follow-up questions.
Maybe they are just overwhelmed?
--
Andrew Fielden.
UK.
Gavin Raeburn
making notes. If I start commenting on what will/won't be in TOCA 2
and the reasons for doing so, then this thread will be in danger of
developing into a narrow discussion on just a few issues. This is fine
- but not just now. Once I have all your ideas I'll post a detailed
response.
So far however, I'm pleased to say that all the points you have raised
have already been addressed for inclusion in TOCA 2.
Gavin Raeburn
TOCA 2 producer
Andrew Fielden
>
>
> So far however, I'm pleased to say that all the points you have raised
> have already been addressed for inclusion in TOCA 2.
>
Ok, great. One other minor point that occurred to me - the
driving view always defaults to behind-the-car position. I
always drive in-car. Why not save information like this in
a startup file so you don't have to change these details
every time you race.
--
Andrew Fielden.
UK.
Spudgun
<afie...@lucent.com> writes
>Does anyone else think it's strange that CodeMasters haven't
>responded in this thread? There have been a lot of very good
>suggestions proposed, and some follow-up questions.
>Maybe they are just overwhelmed?
It's no surprise they haven't replied. They are hardly going to say 'I
like this idea but that one's crap.' Especially considering some of the
practically unworkable ideas suggested.
--
Spudgun
swa...@my-dejanews.com
Andrew Fielden <afie...@lucent.com> wrote:
> Does anyone else think it's strange that CodeMasters haven't
> responded in this thread? There have been a lot of very good
> suggestions proposed, and some follow-up questions.
> Maybe they are just overwhelmed?
>
> Andrew Fielden.
> UK.
>
This discussion was cross posted to uk.games.video.playstation where Gavin did
follow up a couple of messages, those were in response to that fact that a
couple of the UK readers rembered his name from the ol' Commodore 64 days!
SW.
CHIPZ UK
I've posted my comments on TOCA 2 before, but since you are connected with
Codemasters, I was just wondering when they plan on releasing a demo for Colin
McRae Rally. I know you probably don't know, but it's worth a try, I get no
response at all from Codies when I e-mail them :(
I know it's off the subject, so Everyone else, try not to reply to this message
so we can keep it a TOCA 2 thread. Thanks
Bye!
Gavin Raeburn
>Hi, Gavin.
>I've posted my comments on TOCA 2 before, but since you are connected with
>Codemasters, I was just wondering when they plan on releasing a demo for Colin
>McRae Rally. I know you probably don't know, but it's worth a try, I get no
>response at all from Codies when I e-mail them :(
>I know it's off the subject, so Everyone else, try not to reply to this message
>so we can keep it a TOCA 2 thread. Thanks
>
A PSX 3 track demo of Colin McRae is already out.
The PC 3 track demo should be on our web site within the next 2-4
weeks (but don't quote me on that!)
TOCA 2 demos will be out around October!!
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Gavin
Gavin Raeburn
Okay - you've all gone quiet now, so I guess you've ran out of stuff
to say. I've compiled a list of around 70 points from all your posts -
99% of which have already been discussed by my team. I'm not going to
stuff up our marketing department by replying to each point in turn
and giving away the features of TOCA 2 (well not yet, anyway), but I
haven't seen any post that has not been addressed positively in the
design of TOCA 2. This will almost certainly be the last TOCA you will
see on the PSX, and the last for a couple of years on the PC, so we
intend on going out with a bang! Anyway, in reply to some of your
non-design issues:
PC: The basic machine set-up required to run TOCA 2 will be the same
as for TOCA 1, but TOCA 2 will be scalable, so it will use all the
available power of the host machine (including variable screen
resolutions, detail settings, special effects etc.)
PC: You can now bypass DirectInput in TOCA 2 (I can hear the applause
now...), so you should have no steering wheel and other controller
problems.
PC: The Hall of Fame lap-times are now uncrackable, and we will
probably feature an upload/download best track replay feature as an
additional security measure.
PSX: Dual shock/analogue support will be of the same standard as
Collin McRae Rally (good game!)
If you want to read about TOCA 2 in full, you can read the rather
large preview in the September issue of the Official PSX mag and in
various PC mags shortly after. We will be releasing PSX + PC demos as
soon as we can.
Thank-you for your input,
Gavin Raeburn
TOCA 2 Producer
Rob James
>
> A PSX 3 track demo of Colin McRae is already out.
> The PC 3 track demo should be on our web site within the next 2-4
> weeks (but don't quote me on that!)
> TOCA 2 demos will be out around October!!
>
Will there be a sneek peak at ECTS in September ?
Rob
CYCHEN
We (me 8-) ) want an Alfa 155 and 156. I would like to drive in a red 155
against a red 156. I would love to trounce on Emanuelle Naspetti's BMW Italia
320i with my red Alfa 155 TS 16V.
Thanks you. We love you.
Zamani
p/s a BMW would be nice to 8-) At least have one RWD car.
CYCHEN
Dell or something.
Zamani
Doug Burg
> Official Codemasters response to our TOCA 2 design input post.
I have one suggestion for TOCA 2 that I haven't seen addressed ...
DESCENT U.S. DISTRIBUTION.
Face it, TOCA distrbution sucked.
Can we PLEASE buy it in the US within a resonable time of when it comes
out in Europe???? Please?
Thanks...
Doug
Zonker
Duhhhhhhh
I don't blame them, really. They would have had to commit to what 50,000?
Units on sale or return to enter america with a product based on a series no
would have ever heard of?
Z.
Steve Day
>PC: You can now bypass DirectInput in TOCA 2 (I can hear the applause
>now...), so you should have no steering wheel and other controller
>problems.
I only upgraded to a PII-300 the other day so I decided to have a look
at the TOCA demo I downloaded a while back, last time I looked it was
unplayable on a P100 (without 3D), now it's stunning!
One problem though, I have an F1-Sim steering wheel and pedals, I
normally have the pedals configured as seperate channels but I had to
flick a DIL switch and re-calibrate within the pedals unit.
Another nag is that the F1-Sim has a lock to lock of about 270
degrees, but when driving TOCA full lock appears to be about half
that.
Are these issues addressed within the above statement?
Thanks for asking for our input, it's very rare for a software company
to do that nowdays!
Steve Day
Linear Designs
Gavin Raeburn
(too many spams)> wrote:
>I only upgraded to a PII-300 the other day so I decided to have a look
>at the TOCA demo I downloaded a while back, last time I looked it was
>unplayable on a P100 (without 3D), now it's stunning!
>
>One problem though, I have an F1-Sim steering wheel and pedals, I
>normally have the pedals configured as seperate channels but I had to
>flick a DIL switch and re-calibrate within the pedals unit.
>
>Another nag is that the F1-Sim has a lock to lock of about 270
>degrees, but when driving TOCA full lock appears to be about half
>that.
>
>Are these issues addressed within the above statement?
I have added your F1-Sim wheel problems to my ever growing list!
Due to the nature of PC's You will never eliminate all problems, but
by having our own calibration screen and most of the wheels and pads
out there avaiable for us to test, we should get pretty close.
Gavin
Neil Yeatman
> Duhhhhhhh
>
> I don't blame them, really. They would have had to commit to what 50,000?
> Units on sale or return to enter america with a product based on a series no
> would have ever heard of?
In a way it's too bad they have to use the TOCA name...that's what
nobody's heard of over here. I think something with the words "Touring
Cars" more predominantly displayed would get a little more recognition.
--
Neil Yeatman
Ajax, Ontario, CANADA
Paul Jones
shelled out a packet for one!
PJ
Gavin Raeburn
<Pa...@tpjones.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>You have included TSWs haven't you. Please don't say no 'cos I've just
>shelled out a packet for one!
>PJ
>
If you mean the Thrustmaster wheels then yes, they are included.
Gavin
Paul Jones
I meant the Thomas Super Wheel.
Another point, it would be nice if you could switch cars like Grand Prix 2
- you know when it goes "driving with ..." on one of the F keys.
PJ
Paul Jones
If you're still looking for input here are still more thoughts on TOCA:
1) Allow us to drive with (but not control) the cars in the .lap saves,
showing gear changes and revs. That would really help people analyse their
races.
2) If you end a time trial via esc key you should have the option of
restarting rather than having to go through all the menus and reloading.
This would be cool if you're hot-lapping and you screw up the first corner.
3) Please don't put other UK courses (eg. Castle Coombe or Cadwell Park) or
other layouts of current courses (eg. Oulton Fosters or Brands Hatch GP)
into a championship - it wouldn't be realistic. The realism is what makes
TOCA a winner anyway. I'd much rather see the Aussie, German, Swedish,
Argentinian or South American circuits and championships with the cars
setup for those particular formulas - most of the cars are the same models
with different paintwork anyhow - and I shouldn't have thought it'd be too
hard to code it the differences. It would give TOCA 2 a bigger market
anyway. I thinks a lot of people would love to see Alfas (esp. Matthias
Beusing) and BMWs.
4) Make the engine noises less whiney - I'm not a sound expert but I'd have
thought they need more bass.
5) Allow the program to take updates to the car models so that, when the
1999 season starts, you can issue the new models through a patch - I'd
certainly be prepared to pay for it. Also allow driver transfers - like how
Biela and Tarquini have gone over to the German TCC from the British.
6) Assuming you're putting in a damage model, please include flat-spotting
the tyres when you lock the brakes - there's not a lot of penalty for doing
it in TOCA 1.
7) Allow internet/modem/network play to accomodate two or more players on
each connected box.
8) Save best times for qualifying and racing as well as for TTing but in
three different categories. Save the .lap files for each as well.
Thanks for giving r.a.s an input to TOCA 2.
Paul
Dan Prescott
writes
http:/www.dpi-media.co.uk/dpmra/
01st Challenge Fastest Laps at Silverstone International needed by...
...Monday August 31st 1998 00:00 BST
Cheers
--
Dan Prescott
News
Allow for users to download car skins so each person can drive their
exclusive car in looks.
Have all stats be stored on your server like Freespace but allow the users
to setup their computer as a the host on your servers. This to me seems to
work best and at the most important no cost thingy. NRO is just not
practical.
Keep the great handling model.
Also as you improve your your damage model make a demolition derby pit for
internet play. With good physics unlike the stupid MTM 2 rumbles. I think a
real good demo derby would be a huge internet hit.
A couple circle tracks non-champ mode.
I don't subscribe to the two weeks practice to be good theory. Me and my
friends don't have that kind of time anymore if ever.
THANKS
BH
Kotta
points mentioned earlier but hopefully from my own slightly different point of view.
1. AI
Use a slider like in Papyrus Indycar and Nascar simulations. The range of the slider
should exceed 100% so one can 'overclock' the opponents for longer lasting playabilty
(when one has mastered the 'real' level). TOCA 1 is way too easy on the hard level.
Skip the 'progressive AI' used in TOCA 1 when in chamionship. Utterly disturbing. Same AI
skill through out the whole of the season.
Randomize the skills of the different tems a little bit more, in TOCA 1 Renault always
wins etc.
Calculate/simulate real qualifying times for the AI cars.
Increase AI cars overtaking skills. They tend to get hung up behind slower cars making it
very easy to catch the leader when lapping. They seem to be very passive when stuck behind
another car. Maybe a little higher aggression would cover that.
2. Graphics
Current (TOCA 1) in-car view is great, But a non-head-feedback view with working gauges
should be added.
See-through windows wanted.
3. Courses
Since it's a BTCC sim, all current BTCC season tracks should be included. As for bonus
tracks why not include the option to race different 'versions' of the included tracks,
like the long Brands Hatch, the F1 Silverstone, Longer Oulton, different Croft etc. Less
new graphics, easier production :)
Skip the 'Out of bounds'. If you slide off onto wet grass you shouldn't be magically
bounced on to the track again. The whole area of the track surface should be drivable, it
adds realism IMO.
4. Cars
Current season cars.
Include the option to choose which driver you want to replace. (100% swede team with me
Rydell and Volvo impossible in TOCA 1
Full starting field, including privateers.
5. Sound
Let the Cd-audio loop!
6. Realism
Real damage and real pit-stops.
Same physics engine for AI cars and human controlled. (AI wheel spin down the whole
Donington straight? Don't think so)
Current season qualification rules.
DNF possible, breakdowns, flips etc.
--
Eagerly awaiting TOCA 2!
kotta [at] mindless.com
http://www.isk.kth.se/~id96_kko
ICQ# 6963779
Gavin Raeburn wrote...
>Official announcement from Codemasters:
>
>We are currently developing TOCA 2 for release this Christmas.
>Although the design brief has already been worked out, we would be
>interested to hear posts from you on the following two points:
etc...
Michael Zamarocy
original Audi A4 AWD WITHOUT the weight penalty. And the addition of the
96 season BMW.
Also, the damage graphics and realism is almost nonexistent, add the
realism.
Ability to change gearing and suspension.
An interior view more like in "The Pits" patch for NASCAR 2.
Perhaps also add the German STW and the Aussie BOCC???
3Dfx support!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And maybe the newer Matrox G200 as well!!!!
And, . . . . perhaps add Murray Walker's commentaries as an added "FUN"
option???
Paul Mooney
Also, make the game Wireplay compatible (only of interest to UK players).
Internet play, as everyone really knows, is c.r.a.p. There's no way you can
race wheel to wheel with half a second delay over the net. Anyone who has
played internet TOCA will know this:- opponent's cars constantly go
crashing off the track as the your game software predicts where they were
heading when it last heard from them. Then suddenly, an update arrives and
presto! they're back right ahead of you. Funny, but no more like real
racing than exchanging fastest lap times in a chat room.
Andrew Fielden
>
> On 17 Aug 1998 19:57:56 GMT, "Paul Mooney" <mm...@enterprise.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Slow them down in the corners. No way is 70% of a Thruxton lap flat out.
> >
>
> areas on Thruxton, just before the chicane and just before the
> complex, the rest is pretty much flat out.
>
> Dunno how you could make the gameplay better on this track when
> the real life races are pretty dull.
>
> Jamie
I wondered about this. The circuit seems pretty accurate,
but maybe the track adhesion of the cars is a little too
strong. I'm guessing that the real drivers have to lift
off on some of the faster bends.
--
Andrew Fielden.
UK.