THRUSTMASTER PRO VS TSW STEERING WHEEL COMPARISON
Don Wilshe
Drivers:
Here is my 2 cents on why I would buy a TSW!! First off in my
opinion you have 3 choices when it comes to buying a wheel for
your racing sim. Thrustmaster (low End), TSW (Middle/Upper),
and ECCI (Out of Sight). I really doubt that anyone would ever
wear out either the TSW or the ECCI, but I will assure if you
purchase a THRUSTMASTER you should always buy 2. The
TM PRO WHEEL that I have brakes both spring about every
60 days. So having the extra wheel is necessary if you are TM
owner. Now 2 TM wheels cost about $300. Now you can buy a
single basic TSW for the same $300.00. But with wheel purchase there
is one other consideration. Its called 6 year Life Cycle Cost of the
Product. With the TSW lets say you replace the pots each
2 year.
So the 6 Year Life Cycle cost are:
TSW - $300 purchase price and repair to factory and frieght 3
times at $30.00 a trip. Total cost of a TSW of 6 years is $390.00.
Downtime is about 1.5 months!!!
TM PRO - $150 purchase price and repair to factory and 6 times
a year or 30 trips over 6 years at $30.00 a trip is $900.00. Total
cost of the TM PRO Wheel is $1150.00. Downtime is
2 weeks downtime 6 times per year or 12 weeks a year times
6 years is 72 weeks travel time. So you are actually unable to
race about 1.2 years.
Summary TSW is $390.00 and $TM PRO is $1150
My Choice - Thomas Super Wheel.
Trevor I hope my endorsement doesnt hurt your business!!!
Don Wilshe, SHRA
http://www.shra.com
PS. CH PRODUCTS is ok, but I dont like the throw on the
pedals. How do you guys drive with those Pedals!!!!!
PSS. I have a T2 and TM PRO WHEEL available cheap
any takers!!!!!
Ron Ayton
Don Wilshe <dwi...@ivga.com> wrote in article
<3580BBFE...@ivga.com>...
Hi Don,
Just a couple of comments regarding your above
findings.....
Firstly, i have had a Nascar Pro wheel for over 6 months and yes, the
springs will break, but $30.00 dollars a trip to repair???
Thrustmaster will send out replacement springs free of charge and i
can't see why i should have to send it back to the factory to get new
springs put in, when i can do it myself in about 20 minutes...
Also one doesn't have to be a mental giant to be able to change springs
in a Thrustmaster wheel, so the intelligence factor of the owner does
not come into account.
So that leaves $150.00 for a TM Pro, with FREE replacement parts total
= $150.00 for 6 years...
Ok, i'll grant you down time might be slightly less with a TSW, but not
enough to warrant the extra dollars spent...
Down time of 12 weeks per year?? Either you are extraordinarily
useless or are just too slack to bother fixing and maintaining your own
steering wheel.
I can see about 2 spring replacements a year, and a bit of normal
maintenance which comes to about 40 minutes a year down time, and i
save myself $150.00 dollars in the process.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not knocking TSW, but not everyone can afford
to spend the asking price of those, and dearer products.
Thrustmaster, while maybe not up to everyone's standards, have
developed and stood by a reasonable quality wheel, suited to a lot of
people who can not justify the added expense of a TSW etc...
Down here in Australia we are limited to what products are available,
and Thrustmaster has always supported and stood by it's customers.
To me, that's good enough reason to give them my support.
Cheers and good racing, from a happy Thrustmaster customer.
Ron Ayton
Don Wilshe
Ron Ayton wrote:
>
Hi Don,
Just a couple of comments regarding your above
findings.....
Firstly, i have had a Nascar Pro wheel for over 6 months and yes, the
springs will break, but $30.00 dollars a trip to repair???
I am very impatient and why should i have to wait. I ship my wheelback
fed ex overnight. I dont want to or should I have to wait
any longer than I have to.. So why ship ground. Good Point
though..
Thrustmaster will send out replacement springs free of charge and i
can't see why i should have to send it back to the factory to get new
springs put in, when i can do it myself in about 20 minutes...
Another Good Point, But I cant put in the springs!!!!
Also one doesn't have to be a mental giant to be able to change springs
in a Thrustmaster wheel, so the intelligence factor of the owner does
not come into account.
Guess that leaves me out. Im not that smart or mechanical.. I coulduse you to repair mine in my town!!!!! hehe
So that leaves $150.00 for a TM Pro, with FREE replacement parts total
= $150.00 for 6 years...
He He .. Not for me.. But I agree for some others!!!
Ok, i'll grant you down time might be slightly less with a TSW, but not
enough to warrant the extra dollars spent...
2 X realy isnt that much..
Down time of 12 weeks per year?? Either you are extraordinarily
useless or are just too slack to bother fixing and maintaining your own
steering wheel.
I am extraordinary useless I guess compared to you. Why should ihave to
fix my own wheels. I bought a product that should work
not somthing that I have to rebuild!!!
I can see about 2 spring replacements a year, and a bit of normal
maintenance which comes to about 40 minutes a year down time, and i
save myself $150.00 dollars in the process.
I wish that was true. I have had to replace the springs 2 now in 4 monthsmaybe I drive more than you!!!
Don't get me wrong, i'm not knocking TSW, but not everyone can afford
to spend the asking price of those, and dearer products.
Come on now.. Spoil yourself. You are talking about a $350.00wheel
vs a $150.00. Extra $200.00 for something that you will use
at least 1000 hours a year!! I think I am woth it!!!
Thrustmaster, while maybe not up to everyone's standards, have
developed and stood by a reasonable quality wheel, suited to a lot of
people who can not justify the added expense of a TSW etc...
ok
Down here in Australia we are limited to what products are available,
and Thrustmaster has always supported and stood by it's customers.
To me, that's good enough reason to give them my support.
Cheers and good racing, from a happy Thrustmaster customer.
He He.. I guess if you are in australia you cant send the wheel back as
the freight would be about $100 a trip.. hehe
I am truely happy you love your TM. It just dont work for me,,
Don Wilshe!!!
Ron Ayton
Greg Cisko
Don Wilshe wrote in message <3580BBFE...@ivga.com>...
>Summary TSW is $390.00 and $TM PRO is $1150
I figure you would have to be a corrupt politician or some
kind of expert on Sim car racing legends to come up with
a comparision like this.
$1150 haha.
>My Choice - Thomas Super Wheel.
>
>Trevor I hope my endorsement doesnt hurt your business!!!
It just might. I'm about ready to dog him on this BS advertisement :-)
--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.
Scott B. Husted
I dont know where you guys get the $150.00 price for TM Pro. I paid
$99.00 at best buy. $30.00 instant rebate of the $129.00 price.
Also... springs are easy to replace. 20 minutes max. The bungees in
the wheel are much harder to replace. Helps to have an extra set of
small hands around.
I do agree with Don (god check the temperature in hell) =) That the
TSW and ECCI are the class of the field. If you are a serious sim racer
and want top quality.... no doubt about it the TSW is the only way to
go... Unless of course you can go the extra $$ and get the ECCI (I know
very little about this wheel other than reputation).
Ive had my TM Pro since Christmas this past year and have had only to
replace the gas pedal spring once. I did replace the original bungees
with stronger ones which TM sent me free within 14 days. They seem to
be much improved... as well as the new springs.
The new springs have a better feel to them IMHO. So far they have
held up fine... so time will tell on the improved durability.
Scott
PA-Scott
Don Wilshe wrote:
--
Scott B. Husted
Marketing and Administrative Manager
Riegel Federal Credit Union
http://www.riegelfcu.org
Don Wilshe
Rev:
rrevved wrote:
> My ~2 year old T2 has never seen the factory since it left. I broke a spring a year
> ago, got a free replacement from Thrustmaster in 4 days, and I was running
> again. I then mounted a simple strip of wood to the back of the pedal unit and
> limited the travel of the pedals, so I may never break another spring.
> The original pots are in it and work jitter-free and fine. The steering has
> remained fairly tight and it has been an excellent purchase.
>
> $1150? Not hardly.
Hey, 6 years isnt up yet. But you can do that I cant .. You yes saveyour self alot of
money. I cant repair. So guys like you have no
problem. I do.. Why should i repair a product thats suppose to
work.
Don Wlshe
>
>
> --
> * rrevved at mindspring dot com
> * unit.26 s.p.u.t.u.m.
> * http://www.sputum.com
Don Wilshe
Greg Cisko wrote:
> Don Wilshe wrote in message <3580BBFE...@ivga.com>...
> >Summary TSW is $390.00 and $TM PRO is $1150
>
> I figure you would have to be a corrupt politician or some
> kind of expert on Sim car racing legends to come up with
> a comparision like this.
>
> $1150 haha.
>
You will have to agree that over a 6 year time period that you willhave to
spend alot of time repairing and have down time. I am
just telling you what I have experienced with my TM PRO. I
have had the product 4 months and now have 4 broken springs
Don Wilshe
Don Wilshe
Rev:
rrevved wrote:
> >Why should i repair a product thats suppose to work.
>
> To save $1000 ?
>
But I cant. And many many people cant.
BH
Just buy TM F1's if $$$ are concerned. You can get them around $50 at the
right times. I've seen them go for $30 at Comp USA once. I buy in fours so
every dollar is important. I'd need $1200 on TSW wheels. I'm sure their fine
but I make sure never to try them just so I don't get the itch for one.
I've physically abused the F1's, I also drill a hole in the case so I can
dab some lube on the steering pot from time to time to stop spiking some
pots have. If the wheel gets loose you can tighten the bung cord up a bit if
you like. I'm going on a couple years now and their still looking quite
strong for another two at least.
The hand grips have some benefits over foot pedals, and honestly I can't
find a benefit that foot pedals have over hand grips. But I'm still trying
to broaden my horizons... :)
Hopefully we'll see a F1 with force feedback someday.
QBM
BH
>You will have to agree that over a 6 year time period that you willhave to
>spend alot of time repairing and have down time. I am
>just telling you what I have experienced with my TM PRO. I
>have had the product 4 months and now have 4 broken springs
>
>Don Wilshe
R:
Don you have to realize sometimes people get lemons. Yours must be a lemon.
I'll definitely go on the record and state the many TM's are buggy from the
get go. I deal with F1's and I've had to return 3 of them for various
quality reasons. But once you get a good one they seems good for years. So
to all readers make sure you have a perfectly working TM unit from the start
otherwise return it for a replacement.
QBM
BH
>BTW, I am not knocking the very nice TSW wheel, just stating
>that there is a viable, lower cost alternative.
R:
Me either. I know some damn good sim racers using TM products and I always
recommend to my clients the best price/perform. products each and every
time. You would have to be a racing god before I'd recommend the TSW based
on the price. Maybe somebody like Reggie White would get the nod since he'd
probably snap the poor little wheel off the TM's. But Reggie White's are few
and far between for me.
QBM
Andrew Fielden
What's the justification for buying a TSW then? Does it improve your lap times?
Does it feel better? I suppose there's no substitute for actual skill though.
Personally I've had no mechanical failures on my TM GP1, and I use it a lot.
--
Andrew Fielden. afie...@lucent.com
UK.
Greg Cisko
Don Wilshe wrote in message <358138F1...@ivga.com>...
>Rev:
>
>
>rrevved wrote:
>
>> >Why should i repair a product thats suppose to work.
>>
>> To save $1000 ?
>>
>
>But I cant. And many many people cant.
OK Someone has to ask... Exactly why is it you cannot
repair the TM wheel? Are you missing your arms or some-
thing?
--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.
>
Greg Cisko
Don Wilshe wrote in message <3581319E...@ivga.com>...
>You will have to agree that over a 6 year time period that you willhave to
>spend alot of time repairing and have down time. I am
I will agree that over a 6 year period, *YOU* will apparently
have to spend alot of time repairing or whatever. I have had
my T2 for almost 2 years. I broke one gas spring. That is it.
I don't use the rig 8 hours a day or anything, but it gets probably
45% of my gaming use. Flightsims are 50% and the rest of my
other games are probably 5%.
>just telling you what I have experienced with my TM PRO. I
>have had the product 4 months and now have 4 broken springs
Fair enough. I would go with Rev's wooden block suggestion.
ymenard
Greg Cisko wrote
>Don Wilshe wrote
>>
>>Trevor I hope my endorsement doesnt hurt your business!!!
>
>It just might. I'm about ready to dog him on this BS advertisement :-)
Hmmm, is Don making this because somebody named Trevor is now PlaytestOr for
Burnout ?? (Tee Hee you know Don I'm joking, but still...) ;-)
Btw I'm still searching the link on Bethesda's webpage about the e-mail you
sent me (thanks also).
- François Ménard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)
- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
- Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club
- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
- Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)
- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--
ymenard
Andrew Fielden wrote
>What's the justification for buying a TSW then?
Its like buying a Mercedes compared to a Ford Escort. It gets you from point
A to point B one or the other, but you know the difference between those 2
cars ;)
>Does it improve your lap times?
Yes, easily by .2 secs by lap in Nascar2 And on the NROS .2 secs per lap
is very BIG.
>Does it feel better?
Yes, it's smooth and slick.
> I suppose there's no substitute for actual skill though.
In racing simulations, here is what makes a good driver. (on the NROS per
example), it's 50% the driver, 40% the setup, 5% the PC and 5% the wheel.
>Personally I've had no mechanical failures on my TM GP1, and I use it a
lot.
Your a lucky man, congratulations. But what is "alot" ?? Me it's now 100
000laps in Nascar2 only. I never counted World Circuit, Gp2, Icr2, SODA,
GPLegends, F1RS, etc...
Paul Jones
I went shopping and bought 2 lemons both from Thrustmaster. Plus one has gone
wrong in 3 different ways plus the springs on both are still fine on both. The
first (TM GP1) has a flaky micro-switch on the brake (it can really hack you off
when the brakes don't go off if you don't give them a hard flick) plus a bent
table clamp screw plus some dodgy connections in the moulded game port socket
(meaning you have to fiddle for a while to get a perfect connection). The second
(TM F1) 's metal shaft has worn the plastic mouldings. When I first got the F1 I
was pleased as punch 'cos it was so smooth and my lap times went down by
seconds, but now I realise that a racing wheel is going to get tons of stick
(especially on rally sims and VR power boat) and what you need is a tough,
hard-wearing device that you can hand out stick to. I mean would you put up with
a new car when its steering wheel needed maintenance every two weeks? I dunno
though we all put up with Windows 95!!
Yup you can fix the wheel yourself but I would prefer to get the quality item.
Anyone know where can you get a TSW in the UK?
BH wrote:
> >You will have to agree that over a 6 year time period that you willhave to
> >spend alot of time repairing and have down time. I am
> >just telling you what I have experienced with my TM PRO. I
> >have had the product 4 months and now have 4 broken springs
> >
Greg Cisko
ymenard wrote in message <6ls0gf$9...@examiner.concentric.net>...
>Hmmm, is Don making this because somebody named Trevor is now PlaytestOr
for
>Burnout ?? (Tee Hee you know Don I'm joking, but still...) ;-)
That is how I see it. It is quite amazing how the worm turns isn't it?
Ronald Stoehr
Don Wilshe wrote:
>
> Drivers:
>
> Here is my 2 cents on why I would buy a TSW!! First off in my
> opinion you have 3 choices when it comes to buying a wheel for
No, isn't that cute? Two buddies helping each other out.
Where do you find the time to do TWO marketing jobs?
l8er
ronny
--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm>
|\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather,
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep.
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car,
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!
Jason Monds
Now that's a great idea! My only problem with my T2 is the steering pot
spiking a bit. A couple squirts of cleaner always fixes it. Now my T2
will last for another 2 years :-)
Jason.
BH wrote:
> I've physically abused the F1's, I also drill a hole in the case so I can
> dab some lube on the steering pot from time to time to stop spiking some
> pots have.
> The hand grips have some benefits over foot pedals, and honestly I can't
> find a benefit that foot pedals have over hand grips. But I'm still trying
> to broaden my horizons... :)
I like foot pedals, they are realistic. (We all want our sims to be as
realistic
as possible. Why stop at the controller?)
>
> QBM
--
-----------------------
Jason Monds
(Remove 'no extra spork' when replying)
Michael E. Carver
On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:19:29 -0400 Don Wilshe <dwi...@ivga.com> wrote:
% Rev:
% rrevved wrote:
% > >Why should i repair a product thats suppose to work.
% >
% > To save $1000 ?
% >
% But I cant. And many many people cant.
Many??? A few. Anyone with a screwdriver can replace the springs in
the TM Pro series. If you have the dexterity to use the product you
have the dexterity to make a simple spring swap. The T1's & T2's were a
little more complicated to replace the springs, but not much.
--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.
mca...@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
John Courtney
Hi,
I don't use springs from TM on my T2. I use straight springs instead
of the circle shaped ones that came with the T2. I don't know the
technical name for the springs in my wheel. (take a slinkey and stretch
it out, they sort of look like that, only smaller!). I haven't had any
problems since putting them in (knock on wood!). The only side effect is
that the new springs make a little bit of noise when you press/release a
pedal.
Later,
John
Bob Hawkins
HIYA MICHAEL,
Once again I ask why you think so highly of Thurstmaster plastic toys,
most of us that can afford to spend $100.00 more for the TSW2 don't want to
have to work on a toy like the TM I for one don't like to buy something and
have to work on it after the first few days of buying it. I can't understand
you at all do you work foe TM or what? God only knows I had Three of the
TM's they are in the city dump where they belong. I don't believe in the TM
like you don't believe in the TSW.....
Sorry if I came on to forcibly, I have always looked up to you and enjoy
your posts to this news group, but when you are to far off I have to step in
this is one of those times.
Bob Hawkins
Michael E. Carver wrote in message ...
Michael E. Carver
On Sat, 13 Jun 1998 19:32:23 -0400 Bob Hawkins <Raw...@southconn.com> wrote:
% HIYA MICHAEL,
% Once again I ask why you think so highly of Thurstmaster plastic toys,
% most of us that can afford to spend $100.00 more for the TSW2 don't want to
% have to work on a toy like the TM I for one don't like to buy something and
% have to work on it after the first few days of buying it. I can't understand
% you at all do you work foe TM or what? God only knows I had Three of the
% TM's they are in the city dump where they belong. I don't believe in the TM
% like you don't believe in the TSW.....
First of all I DO believe in the TSW. I have NEVER said one thing bad
about their wheels. You must have me confused with someone else.
I have never told anyone to get a Thrustmaster product if they indicated
they could afford a TSW (or ECCI for that matter). As a matter of fact
if I do answer a question about "what wheel do I buy" I have listed the
full line along with URL's pointing to websites for each. I have also
dug up URL's for reviews of these wheels for posters.
I have one of the original "limited edition" T1's which got MANY a year
of use and abuse. It went through a few springs and one rebuild of the
yoke (all of which TM did for free way past the stated warranty). I now
use a Thrustmaster NASCAR Pro and yes, guess what I busted some springs
after a few months use (their re-designed springs are holding up much
better).
Maybe I'm just a tinkerer at heart and don't mind the fact that I was
able to pocket $100-200 buying a TM product that needs occasional
maintanence (cleaning pots -- at least they are not totally sealed so
they can be cleaned instead of replaced every time they go flakey). For
the money I saved, I have been able to stretch my "entertainment" budget
for other things and enjoy the crap out of racing sim titles. There's
nuttin' wrong with that, is there?
If you were so unhappy with your TM products within "the first few days"
I am sure that TM would have been happy to refund your money. I for one
couldn't afford to waste my money on a product that didn't perform up to
its claim. But, TM products do, and as long as Thrustmaster continues to
support their products and their customers, I don't feel bad about
mentioning their products when someone asks about what wheel they should
get when they are on a tight budget.
Besides, most of my posts to r.a.s. about TM products have only been to
help people who have ran into trouble (sometimes just calibration
problems or making it work with Win95 or a particular program -- along
with how they can get parts when they do eventually break.)
% Sorry if I came on to forcibly, I have always looked up to you and enjoy
% your posts to this news group, but when you are to far off I have to step in
% this is one of those times.
% Bob Hawkins
I'll just assume you got up on the wrong side of the bed today.... ;-)
As my response to Don was only to set the record straight. I still
stand by the fact that the majority of the people who can use a TM
product can use a screwdriver to remove screws and replace them. Saying
that, says nothing about the TSW, nor does it tell anyone not to buy a
TSW (or even a Thrustmaster product for that matter).
If you are on a tight budget folks, take a good look at Thrustmaster's
products (GP1, T2 and the NASCAR Pro).
http://www.thrustmaster.com
If you have $100-$200 more you can (or want to spend) take a real good
look at Thomas Steering Wheel products. You can't go wrong (I have a
real good buddy that swears by his! Honest!).
http://soli.inav.net/~thomas/index.html
And if you just got the promised promotion or your wife didn't get
everything in the divorce take a look at the ECCI line of products.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/extreme
Or if ECCI doesn't do it for you check out Virtual Vehicles from
Interactive I/O for their line of products.
http://www.interactiveio.com
And will I am plugging all of the wonderous controlling devices for you
racing sim junkies, the following is only for the truly strung out
junkie with a fat bankroll: Check out Hyper Simulator at
http://desktopsims.com/dts9.htm
[and to you MadCatz and Per4mer and other wheel fans, feel free to plug
your brand as well... I'm signing off now.... <G>]
% Michael E. Carver wrote in message ...
% >On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:19:29 -0400 Don Wilshe <dwi...@ivga.com> wrote:
% >% Rev:
% >
% >
% >% rrevved wrote:
% >
% >% > >Why should i repair a product thats suppose to work.
% >% >
% >% > To save $1000 ?
% >% >
% >
% >% But I cant. And many many people cant.
% >
% >Many??? A few. Anyone with a screwdriver can replace the springs in
% >the TM Pro series. If you have the dexterity to use the product you
% >have the dexterity to make a simple spring swap. The T1's & T2's were a
% >little more complicated to replace the springs, but not much.
Andrew Fielden
Paul Jones wrote:
>
> Yup you can fix the wheel yourself but I would prefer to get the quality item.
> Anyone know where can you get a TSW in the UK?
>
Paul,
Trev is currently trying to find a UK distributor for the TSW.