GP3 is a very good sim!!
Loosay2
as I have read some of the extremist faction of GPL loyalist characterize it. I
liked GP2, and GP3 is about what I expected it to be, a solid evolutionary step
from GP2, but nothing monumentally revolutionary. I am not sure what a
revolutionary step would be actually. If GPL physics were used in this game, I
do not think that the cars would handle much differently,since these are modern
F1 cars and not comparitively ill handling 1967 F1's. The cars control as I
would expect them to in real life.They do not spinout at the least provocation,
but maybe that is what some people love about GPL, its demanding splippery
handling cars, and I can understand that, its the challenging nature of those
old 1967 cars that I also like about GPL. But this is a modern F1 sim, and the
cars stick like glue through the turns, and the challenge comes more from
having to concentrate hard on remembering the course turns at extreme speeds,
and less on having to think about your cars meager limits. These cars are your
allies, not your adversaries in this game. Either way it's demanding. There are
alot of options in this game for tweaking your cars setup. The menus are
sometimes confusing if you have not read the owners manual. I have yet to
experience any major shortcomings in my 3 hours of play. As with any game,
there are some minor things that I could nitpick about, but in general I like
this game so far, and I doubt that I will encounter anythings that will make me
see it as "crap",unless it starts crashing my system or something along those
lines. Most of the valid complaints I have heard from posters that I would
consider nonpartisan, are complaints which seem minor from the standpoint of
what spoils a game for me. To each his own of course. I think that most people
will find this to be worth the $40. Excellent graphics at hi rez, decent sound,
good solid physics modeling,smooth frame rate on a less than state of the art
system, and plenty of depth.
Clark
> I had a suspicion that Geoff Crammonds game was not "crap"
> as I have read some of the extremist faction of GPL loyalist characterize it. I
> liked GP2, and GP3 is about what I expected it to be, a solid evolutionary step
> from GP2, but nothing monumentally revolutionary. I am not sure what a
> revolutionary step would be actually. If GPL physics were used in this game, I
> do not think that the cars would handle much differently,since these are modern
> F1 cars and not comparitively ill handling 1967 F1's. The cars control as I
I just bought GP3 last night and I like it very much compare with other
F1 sims. However some things that I missed the most are camber, caster and
toe settings and reading tire temperature at any given point on the track.
It is kinda shock not seeing camber, caster and toe settings. Reading tire
temp after each session is a must but would be nice to be able to hit pause
and check tire temp anytime while on track.
Any plans to add those features above into GP3?
Jamie Clark
mas...@frontiernet.net
>I had a suspicion that Geoff Crammonds game was not "crap"
>as I have read some of the extremist faction of GPL loyalist characterize it. I
>liked GP2, and GP3 is about what I expected it to be, a solid evolutionary step
>from GP2, but nothing monumentally revolutionary
Hmm, but Ed Martin's stated in his Avault interview that it *was*
revolutionary. (wink, wink)
Regular Racer
cars. Their grip is INCREDIBLE. So why should a modern F1 sim car be all
over the place?
Also most drivers say there is little to no "slide". Just "grip, grip,
grip,......BOOM! it's gone!" (Which is why so many modern F1 drivers rarely
recover from spins).
Very good explanaition Loosay!!!
"Loosay2" <loo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000826095156...@ng-fm1.aol.com...
> I had a suspicion that Geoff Crammonds game was not "crap"
> as I have read some of the extremist faction of GPL loyalist characterize
it. I
> liked GP2, and GP3 is about what I expected it to be, a solid evolutionary
step
> from GP2, but nothing monumentally revolutionary. I am not sure what a
> revolutionary step would be actually. If GPL physics were used in this
game, I
> do not think that the cars would handle much differently,since these are
modern
> F1 cars and not comparitively ill handling 1967 F1's. The cars control as
I
Greg Cisko
I
> would expect them to in real life.They do not spinout at the least
provocation,
> but maybe that is what some people love about GPL, its demanding splippery
> handling cars, and I can understand that, its the challenging nature of
those
> old 1967 cars that I also like about GPL. But this is a modern F1 sim, and
the
> cars stick like glue through the turns, and the challenge comes more from
You must not have seen many races this year then. the cars are very touchy
and zanardi washed out because they did not have the grip he was used
to in CART.
Think what you want though...
--
Greg Cisko
news:n3Rp5.38$Uh6....@news.uswest.net...
> Very well said. And as many drivers have pointed out about modern F1
> cars. Their grip is INCREDIBLE. So why should a modern F1 sim car be all
> over the place?
Because the incredible power the cars generate cancel out
the grip. Duh. Plus with the reduced tire grip (grooves), you see
the F1 drivers going opposite lock all the time. I guess you just
selectively choose to ignore that though.
--
> Also most drivers say there is little to no "slide". Just "grip, grip,
> grip,......BOOM! it's gone!" (Which is why so many modern F1 drivers
rarely
> recover from spins).
> Very good explanaition Loosay!!!
>
>
> "Loosay2" <loo...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20000826095156...@ng-fm1.aol.com...
> > I had a suspicion that Geoff Crammonds game was not "crap"
> > as I have read some of the extremist faction of GPL loyalist
characterize
> it. I
> > liked GP2, and GP3 is about what I expected it to be, a solid
evolutionary
> step
> > from GP2, but nothing monumentally revolutionary. I am not sure what a
> > revolutionary step would be actually. If GPL physics were used in this
> game, I
> > do not think that the cars would handle much differently,since these are
> modern
> > F1 cars and not comparitively ill handling 1967 F1's. The cars control
as
> I
> > would expect them to in real life.They do not spinout at the least
> provocation,
> > but maybe that is what some people love about GPL, its demanding
splippery
> > handling cars, and I can understand that, its the challenging nature of
> those
> > old 1967 cars that I also like about GPL. But this is a modern F1 sim,
and
> the
> > cars stick like glue through the turns, and the challenge comes more
from
Regular Racer
1967 car because of the increased horsepower then? Or am I misunderstanding
you?
"Greg Cisko" <gci...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:NcRp5.17583$o4.26...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net...
Regular Racer
Duh....
Barton Brown
>... zanardi washed out because they did not have the grip he was used
to in CART.
According to Patrick Head, it was more the carbon/carbon brakes used in
F1 (CART and IRL still use steel rotors) that gave Zanardi fits --
Williams even retrofitted one of the cars with steel brakes to try to
settle Zanardi down and get him used to the rest of the car's handling
characteristics, but with little more success.
BB
Peter Bergtrom
to the other (valid but fixable) nitpicks about AI cars
pitting in the rain, etc, etc: an overall blandness due to
all the cars being equal. Ferarri=Minardi=McLaren=Prost.
I don't even care if they all have the same shape but they
should at least be differentiated according to power,
handling, and reliability. I admire the game as a sim but
don't connect emotionally.
OTOH, I can do a full race with reasonable frame rates on
my 350/128/S4 32.
* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
Barton Brown
> you see the F1 drivers going opposite lock all the time.
Exkweeze me? "Opposite lock"? Like DIRT cars and Jack Brabham in the
'60s? I don't think so -- steering corrections far greater than the days
of full-width slicks and active suspension, yes. Opposite lock,
mmmm...not quite.
> I guess you just selectively choose to ignore that though.
Is there some deep motivation for you constantly posting intentionally
rude side comments -- inferiority complex, maybe ... need for attention?
Do you somehow think this snotnosery gives your observations some extra
force or validity? Or are you just another poor, helpless victim of your
adolescent environment, and your rudeness simply an inevitable
consequence of deep childhood trauma for which you simply aren't
responsible -- kinda like Tourette's Syndrome? Whatever it is, it does
not reflect well on your character ... but I suspect that's the whole
idea: the rough, tough RAS badass with big, brass (text-only) balls. If
*that's* the intention, it ain't workin', sonny. But is strongly suspect
you'll persist in it ... why not make *everybody's* day and prove me wrong?
Just a thought...
BB
Thomas JS Brown
"unrecoverable", which I believe is a product of the relatively large
latency in the FF effects as compared to GPL. It is quite possible to
induce and catch a spin. It's not perfect, but neither is it as bad as
others have said.
> If GPL physics were used in this game, I
> do not think that the cars would handle much differently,since these are >modern
> F1 cars and not comparitively ill handling 1967 F1's.
Well, I see a lot of GPL in GP3 in the sense that the physics modeling
is very detailed, although different aspects are focused on.
As far as the '67 cars being poor handling, I have to disagree with
that. If you're using the default setups or most of the setups from the
hotlap sites, then yes they are difficult and slippery (and downright
evil if you ask me).
The philosophy of setting up the car in GPL has been to reduce the
dynamic range of the suspension and body roll by reducing the ride
height and/or stiffening springs, and also by adjusting the diff to
provide more stable handling in transitions from power on and power off
states. The result? a car that is very difficult to figure out due to
the fact that it's hitting the bump rubbers during braking, acceleration
and through certain corners, and depending on the diff. too much
understeer in throttle off and too much oversteer in throttle on
positions. There are some very talented GPLers who have pioneered this
method, and have learned how to shove the car around at will regardless
of the fact that it has the handling characteristics of a block of wood.
Is that realistic?? no, and it works because the physical world of GPL
is limited as we all know (i.e. less grip, not as bumpy etc.).
I've been looking at a lot of 67 pictures and footage of races of that
season. Most of the cars have a lot of rake (take a look at a picture of
the backend of the Honda or the Ferrari and see the halfshafts pointing
downwards to the wheel instead of inward towards the gearbox),
relatively high ride height, VERY soft springs, and lots of body roll.
You can set your car up like that in GPL and it is quite easy to drive
with a little practice. In fact it's quite enjoyable, and realistic and
you can get get laptimes that are historically accurate and even surpass
them with practice. It's not however, as fast as the method that has
become the norm which is not at all realistic.
GPL has become the standard by which all other sims are judged, yet the
flaws (actually not flaws, but lack of physical detail due to lack of
computing power) in the physics model that have spawned the present
methods of driving have gone completely unchallenged.
It would seem that plenty of people have enjoyed GPL regardless of the
flaws that it has.
GPL,GP3 and Nascar Heat should be enjoyed for what they do well, which
is to give the prospective buyer the illusion of being a racecar driver.
TJSB
Gerry Aitken
Barton Brown wrote:
>
> Greg Cisko wrote:
> > you see the F1 drivers going opposite lock all the time.
>
> Exkweeze me? "Opposite lock"? Like DIRT cars and Jack Brabham in the
> '60s? I don't think so -- steering corrections far greater than the days
> of full-width slicks and active suspension, yes. Opposite lock,
> mmmm...not quite.
I've heard Martin Brundle comment on the amount of opposite lock used by
the drivers. At times he has mentioned the use of opposite lock when
viewing the in car cam. I remember him saying stuff like, "Oh look at
that! Schumi getting the back all lose and using opposite lock to stop
it coming around", or words to that effect. Or did I dream it?
Cheers
Gerry
jbo...@my-deja.com
"Greg Cisko" <gci...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Regular Racer" <regr...@thetrack.com> wrote in message
> news:n3Rp5.38$Uh6....@news.uswest.net...
> > Very well said. And as many drivers have pointed out about
modern F1
> > cars. Their grip is INCREDIBLE. So why should a modern F1 sim car
be all
> > over the place?
>
> Because the incredible power the cars generate cancel out
> the F1 drivers going opposite lock all the time. I guess you just
> selectively choose to ignore that though.
Just like Crammonites tend to ignore F12K, Greg. <G>
I do agree with Loosay, though, in that GP3 does do a good job of
simulating the F1 "experience." I'm not all that enamored with the
physics modeling (er, or lack therof) in GP3, but thankfully F12K has
the bases covered there. Can't wait for F1 2001 -- THAT should blow
Crammond and his legions out of the water (hopefully!).
-- JB
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
N...@nomail.net
thus spoke:
>Is there some deep motivation for you constantly posting intentionally
>rude side comments -- inferiority complex, maybe ... need for attention?
>Do you somehow think this snotnosery gives your observations some extra
>force or validity? Or are you just another poor, helpless victim of your
> adolescent environment, and your rudeness simply an inevitable
>consequence of deep childhood trauma for which you simply aren't
>responsible -- kinda like Tourette's Syndrome? Whatever it is, it does
>not reflect well on your character ... but I suspect that's the whole
>idea: the rough, tough RAS badass with big, brass (text-only) balls. If
>*that's* the intention, it ain't workin', sonny. But is strongly suspect
>you'll persist in it ... why not make *everybody's* day and prove me wrong?
>
>Just a thought...
>
>BB
<Nos pulls up a chair> Oooh..must be group therapy time.
--
Nos
Ian P
Zanardi driving !! They got a real driver in to replace him, goes by the
name of Jensen Button ;)
--
Ian P
<email invalid due to spam>
Greg Cisko <gci...@hotmail.com> wrote
> You must not have seen many races this year then. the cars are very touchy
> and zanardi washed out because they did not have the grip he was used
> to in CART.
>
> Think what you want though...
>
>
> --
>
> gci...@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
Regular Racer
graphics turned off for that thing for a decent framerate. <grin>
-Cheers!
<jbo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8o92b1$38l$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Barton Brown
>Schumi getting the back all lose and using opposite lock to stop
> it coming around", or words to that effect. Or did I dream it?
I doubt you dreamt it, but the term as used today is a physiolingual
bastardization of the term as it was originally used: whipping the
steering wheel to full lock in the opposite direction of the corner to
catch or hold a radically oversteering car, and induce the full
four-wheel drift -- another term used today in F1 to describe a vehicle
attitude that in the days of yore would have been called a mere wiggle
or "stepping out". Back then, a four-wheel drift was a cornering method:
cultivated, controlled, and much to be desired. Today, what is loosely
-- IMHO -- termed a "four-wheel drift" is an anomalous,
nearly-uncontrolled vehicle attitude a very few degrees of slip angle
removed from the line of travel, resulting from poor cornering
technique, and not to be desired at all. As for "opposite lock," the
modern commentator would seem to apply the term to anything a few
degrees past dead-center in the steering gubbins. Today's F1 car may be
twitchy compared to the full-slick, active suspension days, but it is
nothing remotely like the wild, howling, smoking sideways-to-Sydney
sideslip of the days of skinny tires and too much power. Watching Jody
Scheckter crest the top of the boot at Watkins Glen in a Formula 5000
car, the car itself completely sideways well before the apex -- and on
purpose! -- was to see the four-wheel drift in its full, bare-chested
glory ... and much more akin to watching Colin McRae hurl his Ford Focus
sideways in Sardinia than Schumacher twitching a few degrees at Spa.
Or so *I* think -- YMMV
BB
Kieran Larkin
Regular Racer <regr...@thetrack.com> wrote in message
news:C5Wp5.897$83.2...@news.uswest.net...
> JB, you're gonna hafta ta' upgrade your PC for F1 2001 or run with all
> graphics turned off for that thing for a decent framerate. <grin>
>
minimum requirement for f1 200-inside knowledge!
P6/7 3000 or above
1024 MB ram
19 gb hard drive
8 ge-force 4.
--
Kieran
www.pcracing.co.uk for GP3 and WSC
jbo...@my-deja.com
sour grapes from a Crammondite to me -- I'm running F12K with great
frame rates on an AMD K6-2 400 system with 64 MB of RAM and a 16 MB
Voodoo Banshee card (frame rates in the low 20s consistently -- versus,
what, a max of 24 fps in GP3?). I had to scale back the graphics a bit
to achieve that, but F12K still looks VERY good even at that -- and it
drives GREAT!
-- JB
In article <8o9cg2$dfk$1...@uranium.btinternet.com>,
"Kieran Larkin" <larkin...@ukmax.com> wrote:
>
>
> Regular Racer <regr...@thetrack.com> wrote in message
Greg Cisko
> So you're telling me that modern F1 cars have mathmetically less grip than
a
> 1967 car because of the increased horsepower then? Or am I
misunderstanding
> you?
I am saying that the grip level and power lever are both increased
dramatically and cancel each other out. With the addition of grooved
tires the modern F1 cars are very touchy to drive. You see drivers
going opposite lock *ALL THE TIME*.
This has nothing to do with 1967 GP cars as far as I know.
--
Greg Cisko
> Oh and those thousands of pounds of downforce are cancelled out to right?
> Duh....
Duh.
--
Greg Cisko
--
"Barton Brown" <bar...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:39A802B1...@earthlink.net...
> Greg Cisko wrote:
> > you see the F1 drivers going opposite lock all the time.
>
> Exkweeze me? "Opposite lock"? Like DIRT cars and Jack Brabham in the
> '60s? I don't think so -- steering corrections far greater than the days
> of full-width slicks and active suspension, yes. Opposite lock,
> mmmm...not quite.
>
> > I guess you just selectively choose to ignore that though.
>
Greg Cisko
news:39A876B5...@ntlword.com...
>
>
> Barton Brown wrote:
> >
> > Greg Cisko wrote:
> > > you see the F1 drivers going opposite lock all the time.
> >
> > Exkweeze me? "Opposite lock"? Like DIRT cars and Jack Brabham in the
> > '60s? I don't think so -- steering corrections far greater than the days
> > of full-width slicks and active suspension, yes. Opposite lock,
> > mmmm...not quite.
>
> the drivers. At times he has mentioned the use of opposite lock when
> viewing the in car cam. I remember him saying stuff like, "Oh look at
> it coming around", or words to that effect. Or did I dream it?
Yep.. Amazing that spence didn't know about that one. Many modern
F1 drivers mention the same thing. But spence will believe what he
wants... Good for him.
--
Greg Cisko
> Greg Cisko wrote:
> >... zanardi washed out because they did not have the grip he was used
> to in CART.
>
> According to Patrick Head, it was more the carbon/carbon brakes used in
> F1 (CART and IRL still use steel rotors) that gave Zanardi fits --
> Williams even retrofitted one of the cars with steel brakes to try to
> settle Zanardi down and get him used to the rest of the car's handling
> characteristics, but with little more success.
Yeah, he had more braking power and less grip than he was
used to in CART. What is Zanardi doing next year?
--
Greg Cisko
"Ian P" <nos...@thanks.com> wrote in message
news:8o97ti$1hk$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Well, if you're watching this years F1 races you most certainly will not
see
> Zanardi driving !! They got a real driver in to replace him, goes by the
> name of Jensen Button ;)
You are right of course. I was thinking of last year.
--
> --
> Ian P
> <email invalid due to spam>
>
> Greg Cisko <gci...@hotmail.com> wrote
> > You must not have seen many races this year then. the cars are very
touchy
> > and zanardi washed out because they did not have the grip he was used
> > to in CART.
> >
Regular Racer
-Cheers!
"Kieran Larkin" <larkin...@ukmax.com> wrote in message
news:8o9cg2$dfk$1...@uranium.btinternet.com...
>
>
>
> Regular Racer <regr...@thetrack.com> wrote in message
> news:C5Wp5.897$83.2...@news.uswest.net...
> > JB, you're gonna hafta ta' upgrade your PC for F1 2001 or run with all
> > graphics turned off for that thing for a decent framerate. <grin>
> >
> minimum requirement for f1 200-inside knowledge!
>
> P6/7 3000 or above
> 1024 MB ram
> 19 gb hard drive
> 8 ge-force 4.
> --
> Kieran
> www.pcracing.co.uk for GP3 and WSC
>
> > -Cheers!
> >
> >
> > <jbo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8o92b1$38l$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > > In article <NcRp5.17583$o4.26...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>,
> > > "Greg Cisko" <gci...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > "Regular Racer" <regr...@thetrack.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:n3Rp5.38$Uh6....@news.uswest.net...
> > > > > Very well said. And as many drivers have pointed out about
> > > modern F1
> > > > > cars. Their grip is INCREDIBLE. So why should a modern F1 sim
car
> > > be all
> > > > > over the place?
> > > >
> > > > Because the incredible power the cars generate cancel out
> > > > the grip. Duh. Plus with the reduced tire grip (grooves), you see
> > > > the F1 drivers going opposite lock all the time. I guess you just
> > > > selectively choose to ignore that though.
> > >
Regular Racer
usually have 80-120%. (With ATI Rage Fury Maxx)
Hmmm.......
I have both games but I lean towards GP3 primarily because I hate to turn
down graphics in games to achieve decent frame rates.
"Kieran Larkin" <larkin...@ukmax.com> wrote in message
news:8o9nl9$67v$1...@plutonium.btinternet.com...
> Not a sour "Crammondite " just a joke.I have a p3 550 and v3 and I get
300%
> occupancy in the rain!(from track camera). I got ok fps on f1 2000, but
the
> quality didn't seem as good. overall I think bit for bit they are the same
> graphic wise f12000 has better car shapes but imo Gp3 has a slight edge
> although texture on cars are wearied close up. I like f1 2000, just I like
> gp3 a bit more.
>
> --
> Kieran
> www.pcracing.co.uk for GP3 and WSC
> <jbo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8o9gri$ioq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > "Inside knowledge," Kieran? Those "specs" sound more like potential
> > sour grapes from a Crammondite to me -- I'm running F12K with great
> > frame rates on an AMD K6-2 400 system with 64 MB of RAM and a 16 MB
> > Voodoo Banshee card (frame rates in the low 20s consistently -- versus,
> > what, a max of 24 fps in GP3?). I had to scale back the graphics a bit
> > to achieve that, but F12K still looks VERY good even at that -- and it
> > drives GREAT!
> >
> > -- JB
> >
> > In article <8o9cg2$dfk$1...@uranium.btinternet.com>,
> > "Kieran Larkin" <larkin...@ukmax.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Regular Racer <regr...@thetrack.com> wrote in message
Regular Racer
<N...@NOMAIL.net> wrote in message
news:39a86689...@news1.sympatico.ca...
> On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 22:22:13 +0100, "Kieran Larkin"
> <larkin...@ukmax.com> thus spoke:
>
>
> >minimum requirement for f1 200-inside knowledge!
> >
> >P6/7 3000 or above
> >1024 MB ram
> >19 gb hard drive
> >8 ge-force 4.
>
> I've got all that. Bring on F1 2001.
>
> --
> Nos
Regular Racer
"Greg Cisko" <gci...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Ts_p5.18360$o4.28...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net...
> "Regular Racer" <regr...@thetrack.com> wrote in message
Kieran Larkin
occupancy in the rain!(from track camera). I got ok fps on f1 2000, but the
quality didn't seem as good. overall I think bit for bit they are the same
graphic wise f12000 has better car shapes but imo Gp3 has a slight edge
although texture on cars are wearied close up. I like f1 2000, just I like
gp3 a bit more.
--
Kieran
www.pcracing.co.uk for GP3 and WSC
<jbo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8o9gri$ioq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> "Inside knowledge," Kieran? Those "specs" sound more like potential
> sour grapes from a Crammondite to me -- I'm running F12K with great
> frame rates on an AMD K6-2 400 system with 64 MB of RAM and a 16 MB
> Voodoo Banshee card (frame rates in the low 20s consistently -- versus,
> what, a max of 24 fps in GP3?). I had to scale back the graphics a bit
> to achieve that, but F12K still looks VERY good even at that -- and it
> drives GREAT!
>
> -- JB
>
> In article <8o9cg2$dfk$1...@uranium.btinternet.com>,
> "Kieran Larkin" <larkin...@ukmax.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Regular Racer <regr...@thetrack.com> wrote in message
> > news:C5Wp5.897$83.2...@news.uswest.net...
> > > JB, you're gonna hafta ta' upgrade your PC for F1 2001 or run with
> all
> > > graphics turned off for that thing for a decent framerate. <grin>
> > >
> > minimum requirement for f1 200-inside knowledge!
> >
> > P6/7 3000 or above
> > 1024 MB ram
> > 19 gb hard drive
> > 8 ge-force 4.
> > --
> > Kieran
> > www.pcracing.co.uk for GP3 and WSC
> >
> > > -Cheers!
> > >
> > >
> > > <jbo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8o92b1
> $38l$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > > > In article <NcRp5.17583$o4.26...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net>,
> > > > "Greg Cisko" <gci...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > "Regular Racer" <regr...@thetrack.com> wrote in message
N...@nomail.net
<larkin...@ukmax.com> thus spoke:
>minimum requirement for f1 200-inside knowledge!
>
>P6/7 3000 or above
>1024 MB ram
>19 gb hard drive
>8 ge-force 4.
I've got all that. Bring on F1 2001.
--
Nos
ymenard
> Yep.. Amazing that spence didn't know about that one. Many modern
> F1 drivers mention the same thing. But spence will believe what he
> wants... Good for him.
Well yes and no. Let's remember that "opposite lock" is a term that can
simply be used vaguely. For some X maneuver can be said to be opposite lock
while for others it's not.
Opposite means the contrast, or doing something contrary to what you are
doing. So if your turning the wheel left, then any action during the turn
of rotating your steering to the right for me is counter-steering. When the
movement is drastic, in this situation it would be turning the wheel more
right than the center, it's called opposite lock.
Modern F1's have much more counter-steering, and less intense opposite lock
than in the past. That's all Barton was trying to say I think (but failed
to expand).
But hey.. F12000 sucks, GP3 sucks and any Ubisoft title sucks. Eh ;-P
--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.
Mike
EXTREMELY twitchy in low speed corners, and just about everywhere else.
Regular Racer <regr...@thetrack.com> wrote in message
news:n3Rp5.38$Uh6....@news.uswest.net...
> Very well said. And as many drivers have pointed out about modern F1
> cars. Their grip is INCREDIBLE. So why should a modern F1 sim car be all
> over the place?
> Also most drivers say there is little to no "slide". Just "grip, grip,
> grip,......BOOM! it's gone!" (Which is why so many modern F1 drivers
rarely
> recover from spins).
> Very good explanaition Loosay!!!
>
>
> "Loosay2" <loo...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20000826095156...@ng-fm1.aol.com...
> > I had a suspicion that Geoff Crammonds game was not "crap"
> > as I have read some of the extremist faction of GPL loyalist
characterize
> it. I
> > liked GP2, and GP3 is about what I expected it to be, a solid
evolutionary
> step
> > from GP2, but nothing monumentally revolutionary. I am not sure what a
> > revolutionary step would be actually. If GPL physics were used in this
> game, I
> > do not think that the cars would handle much differently,since these are
> modern
> > F1 cars and not comparitively ill handling 1967 F1's. The cars control
as
> I
> > would expect them to in real life.They do not spinout at the least
> provocation,
> > but maybe that is what some people love about GPL, its demanding
splippery
> > handling cars, and I can understand that, its the challenging nature of
> those
> > old 1967 cars that I also like about GPL. But this is a modern F1 sim,
and
> the
> > cars stick like glue through the turns, and the challenge comes more
from
Kieran Larkin
trackside camera
--
Kieran
www.pcracing.co.uk for GP3 and WSC
Regular Racer <regr...@thetrack.com> wrote in message
news:Ld1q5.1146$Uh6.3...@news.uswest.net...
> Hey, I have a P3/550 but when it rains (800x600, all detail turned on) I
> usually have 80-120%. (With ATI Rage Fury Maxx)
> Hmmm.......
>
> I have both games but I lean towards GP3 primarily because I hate to turn
> down graphics in games to achieve decent frame rates.
>
> "Kieran Larkin" <larkin...@ukmax.com> wrote in message
> news:8o9nl9$67v$1...@plutonium.btinternet.com...
Ronald Stoehr
>
snip
>
> Just like Crammonites tend to ignore F12K, Greg. <G>
We all know, who we are.
>
> I do agree with Loosay, though, in that GP3 does do a good job of
> simulating the F1 "experience." I'm not all that enamored with the
> physics modeling (er, or lack therof) in GP3, but thankfully F12K has
> the bases covered there. Can't wait for F1 2001 -- THAT should blow
> Crammond and his legions out of the water (hopefully!).
You can stand driving on the Mickey Mouse tracks of F12k, so it's not
surprising that you miss the great car behaviour of GP3...
You, you, eh.., you EA fanboy... ;^)
I know it's not as creative as Crammonites, but close.
--
l8er
ronny
Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?
|\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather,
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep.
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car,
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!
Greg Cisko
news:ng%p5.857$F5.4...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> But hey.. F12000 sucks, GP3 sucks and any Ubisoft title sucks. Eh ;-P
You forgot one... *YOU* suck :-)
--
Greg Cisko
story :-)
--
"Mike" <m...@fast.net> wrote in message
news:sqhfvp...@corp.supernews.com...
> Gee, ask Alex Zanardi about the incredible grip.... modern F1 cars are
> EXTREMELY twitchy in low speed corners, and just about everywhere else.
>
> Regular Racer <regr...@thetrack.com> wrote in message
> news:n3Rp5.38$Uh6....@news.uswest.net...
> > Very well said. And as many drivers have pointed out about modern
F1
> > cars. Their grip is INCREDIBLE. So why should a modern F1 sim car be
all
> > over the place?
EldredP
>"Inside knowledge," Kieran? Those "specs" sound more like potential
>sour grapes from a Crammondite to me -- I'm running F12K with great
>frame rates on an AMD K6-2 400 system with 64 MB of RAM and a 16 MB
>Voodoo Banshee card (frame rates in the low 20s consistently -- versus,
>what, a max of 24 fps in GP3?). I had to scale back the graphics a bit
>to achieve that, but F12K still looks VERY good even at that -- and it
>drives GREAT!
What are your settings, and do you loose some reference points(braking,
turn-in)?
Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +51.31
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Ian P
--
Ian P
<email invalid due to spam>
Greg Cisko <gci...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pB_p5.18382$o4.28...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net...
>
>
>
> "Ian P" <nos...@thanks.com> wrote in message
> news:8o97ti$1hk$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > Well, if you're watching this years F1 races you most certainly will not
> see
> > Zanardi driving !! They got a real driver in to replace him, goes by the
> > name of Jensen Button ;)
>
> You are right of course. I was thinking of last year.
>
> --
>
> gci...@hotmail.com
>
>
> > --
> > Ian P
> > <email invalid due to spam>
> >
> > Greg Cisko <gci...@hotmail.com> wrote
> > > You must not have seen many races this year then. the cars are very
> touchy
> > > and zanardi washed out because they did not have the grip he was used
> > > to in CART.
> > >
> > > Think what you want though...
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > gci...@hotmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
Todd Dry
> "Barton Brown" <bar...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:39A7FF88...@earthlink.net...
> > Greg Cisko wrote:
> > to in CART.
> >
> > According to Patrick Head, it was more the carbon/carbon brakes used in
> > F1 (CART and IRL still use steel rotors) that gave Zanardi fits --
> > Williams even retrofitted one of the cars with steel brakes to try to
> > settle Zanardi down and get him used to the rest of the car's handling
> > characteristics, but with little more success.
>
> Yeah, he had more braking power and less grip than he was
> used to in CART. What is Zanardi doing next year?
>
>
year's Canadian GP for Speedvision, Zanardi wasn't struggling with a lack of
grip but a lack of precision. F1 cars, according to Rahal, have tremendous
grip but an extremely narrow window of optimum performance. They are not
catchable, whereas a CART car apparently is, so you can get away with things
in a CART car that aren't possible in an F1 car. At least that was his view.
Sam Posey postulated that Zanardi becoming a father may have caused him to
lose some of his bravado. There have also been some suggestions that Zanardi
wasn't comfortable with his race engineer, lost confidence in Williams, and
had reason to believe he wasn't getting the same car that Ralf was.
Joel Murray
wrote:
> used to in CART. What is Zanardi doing next year?
My understanding was that he's coming back to CART.
--
____________________________________________________________________
Ligneous and petrous projectiles can potentially fracture my osseous
structure, but pejorative appellations will forever remain innocuous.
EldredP
writes:
>If I remember correctly according to Bobby Rahal, who guest commentated last
>year's Canadian GP for Speedvision, Zanardi wasn't struggling with a lack of
>grip but a lack of precision. F1 cars, according to Rahal, have tremendous
>grip but an extremely narrow window of optimum performance. They are not
>catchable, whereas a CART car apparently is, so you can get away with things
>in a CART car that aren't possible in an F1 car. At least that was his view.
>
If that's the case, maybe Juan Montoya won't fare that well either. He's
*great* at catching a CART car...
Greg Cisko
news:20000827233243...@nso-de.aol.com...
> If that's the case, maybe Juan Montoya won't fare that well either. He's
> *great* at catching a CART car...
He was also a great test driver in F1 for Williams. So I think many
expect more from him than zanardi showed. After all, Zanardi was
a back marker the first time he was in F1.
--
jbo...@my-deja.com
Ronald Stoehr <rst...@t-online.de> wrote:
> jbo...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> snip
> >
> > Just like Crammonites tend to ignore F12K, Greg. <G>
>
> We all know, who we are.
>
> >
> > I do agree with Loosay, though, in that GP3 does do a good job of
> > simulating the F1 "experience." I'm not all that enamored with the
> > physics modeling (er, or lack therof) in GP3, but thankfully F12K
has
> > the bases covered there. Can't wait for F1 2001 -- THAT should blow
> > Crammond and his legions out of the water (hopefully!).
>
> You can stand driving on the Mickey Mouse tracks of F12k, so it's not
> surprising that you miss the great car behaviour of GP3...
>
> You, you, eh.., you EA fanboy... ;^)
OUCH! That hurt! <G>
> I know it's not as creative as Crammonites, but close.
;-)
> --
> l8er
> ronny
>
> Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
> to take effect. Reboot now?
> |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather,
> ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep.
> |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car,
> '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!
>
jbo...@my-deja.com
eld...@aol.comSPAM-OFF (EldredP) wrote:
> In article <8o9gri$ioq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, jbo...@my-deja.com writes:
>
> >"Inside knowledge," Kieran? Those "specs" sound more like potential
> >sour grapes from a Crammondite to me -- I'm running F12K with great
> >frame rates on an AMD K6-2 400 system with 64 MB of RAM and a 16 MB
> >Voodoo Banshee card (frame rates in the low 20s consistently --
versus,
> >what, a max of 24 fps in GP3?). I had to scale back the graphics a
bit
> >to achieve that, but F12K still looks VERY good even at that -- and
it
> >drives GREAT!
>
> What are your settings, and do you loose some reference points
(braking,
> turn-in)?
I don't lose any of the important things -- I still have all trackside
miscellany (cranes, bridges, signs, etc.), so the overall experience is
still the same and the graphics look pretty decent IMO. I'll try to
document my settings and system tweaks and post it all in a separate
post to try to assist everybody who's having trouble running F12K.
-- JB
jbo...@my-deja.com
64 MB of RAM and an aging 16 MB Voodoo Banshee card (not overclocked),
I get pretty decent frame rates in F12000 (in Quick Race mode, I see no
less than 15 around the pit areas, up to 30 elsewhere, and averages in
the low-to-mid 20s -- very playable and surprisingly smooth). I use
FRAPS (http://www.fraps.com/) to check the frame rate, FYI.
Here are the settings I'm using in F12000 -- if you have a 500+ MHz
system and a Voodoo 3/5, TNT2, or GeForce video card, you should be
getting MUCH better performance than I am seeing using these same
settings. Give them a try, and you might be surprised:
DISPLAY SETTINGS
Cockpit:
Cockpit detail - High
Moving steering wheel - off
Mirrors - off
Miscellaneous (mirrors) - off
Trees (mirrors) - off
Billboards (mirrors) - off
Buildings (mirrors) - off
Bridges (mirrors) - off
Grandstands (mirrors) - off
Pit lane objects (mirrors) - off
Special Effects:
Bilinear Filtering - Off
Specular Highlighting - Off
Environment Mapping - Off
Race Groove - On
Skybox - Off
Everything else Off
Miscellaneous:
Movies - Off
Tooltips - 1.5
Measurement Units - Imperial
Page Transitions - Off
Placement Map - Off
Message Center Detail - High
Default View - Cockpit
World:
Resolution - 800x600
Viewing Distance - Maximum
Level of Detail Distance - Maximum
Fog Distance - Low
Texture Mapping Detail - Low
Player Vehicle Detail - Low
Other Driver Vehicle Detail - Low
Max. No. Visible Vehicles - 7
Miscellaneous - On
Trees - On
Billboards - Off (this setting not endorsed by Games-Advertising)
Bridges - On
Grandstands - On
Pit Lane Objects - Off
Unsupported Features:
MIP Mapping -- Off
Using these settings, F12000 feels MUCH better, and it looks decent.
All in all, the overall experience with F12000 now reminds me of when I
first started playing GPL on my old AMD K6-200 system with 16 MB of RAM
and a first-generation Voodoo card. On that system, I had to play at
640x480 resolution, with mirrors turned off and world details cut back,
but it was great. If it hadn't been for GPL, I would probably still
have that system, in fact -- the upgrades were more than worth it for
GPL, but not really necessary for any other reason. Ah, well -- that's
progress! <G>
Enjoy!
-- JB
In article <20000827103708...@nso-dd.aol.com>,
eld...@aol.comSPAM-OFF (EldredP) wrote:
> In article <8o9gri$ioq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, jbo...@my-deja.com writes:
>
> >"Inside knowledge," Kieran? Those "specs" sound more like potential
> >sour grapes from a Crammondite to me -- I'm running F12K with great
> >frame rates on an AMD K6-2 400 system with 64 MB of RAM and a 16 MB
> >Voodoo Banshee card (frame rates in the low 20s consistently --
> > versus, what, a max of 24 fps in GP3?). I had to scale back the
> >graphics a bit to achieve that, but F12K still looks VERY good even
> >at that -- and it drives GREAT!
>
> What are your settings, and do you loose some reference points
> (braking, turn-in)?
>
> Eldred
> --
> Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> GPL hcp. +51.31
>
> Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then
beats you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
>
Simon Brown
I love GPL, but I don't think GP3 is crap. It's not as realistic as I was
expecting, and not as impressive as GP2 was when it was released, but
overall it's a lot of fun to play and it has enhanced my collection.
"Loosay2" <loo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000826095156...@ng-fm1.aol.com...
<blah>
>
EldredP
>Okay, on my wimpy, mid-range AMD K6-2 400 system (oc'ed from 350) with
>64 MB of RAM and an aging 16 MB Voodoo Banshee card (not overclocked),
>I get pretty decent frame rates in F12000 (in Quick Race mode, I see no
>less than 15 around the pit areas, up to 30 elsewhere, and averages in
>the low-to-mid 20s -- very playable and surprisingly smooth). I use
>FRAPS (http://www.fraps.com/) to check the frame rate, FYI.
>
>Here are the settings I'm using in F12000 -- if you have a 500+ MHz
>system and a Voodoo 3/5, TNT2, or GeForce video card, you should be
>getting MUCH better performance than I am seeing using these same
>settings. Give them a try, and you might be surprised:
Thanks, John. I have a K6/3-400. I'll try these settings tonight when I get
home...
Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +50.77
sgtsl...@my-deja.com
> I doubt you dreamt it, but the term as used today is a physiolingual
> bastardization of the term as it was originally used:
Boy, am I sorry I missed this thread when it was hot... That is one of
the best description I've read. It is clear that opposite-lock in the
days of bias-ply, hard-rubber, skinny-tires and no down-force is much,
much different than in the world radial-ply (even the current groved)
down-force cars.
Full-lock used to mean just that -- the steering wheel wouldn't turn
any further... Now it means the slip-angles have gone beyond their
optimum to hold the road... Without getting into a gualitative,
subjective conflab... a full, or nearly full, lock four-wheel drift
looks much different than what is preferred in today's cornering. If
you see those kind of slip-angles today, the poor nut behind the wheel
is on his way to the gravel pit...
Sgt
Jo Helsen
>"ymenard" <yves....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>news:ng%p5.857$F5.4...@news20.bellglobal.com...
>> But hey.. F12000 sucks, GP3 sucks and any Ubisoft title sucks. Eh ;-P
>
>You forgot one... *YOU* suck :-)
No, he actually forgot TWO
(I leave the rest of the required thinking for the reader <G> )
JoH
------- The best way to accelerate a Mac is 9.81 m/s2 --------
--------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Cisko
news:HjGpOQi1s+H9V2...@4ax.com...
> "Greg Cisko" <gci...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"ymenard" <yves....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >news:ng%p5.857$F5.4...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> >> But hey.. F12000 sucks, GP3 sucks and any Ubisoft title sucks. Eh ;-P
> >
> >You forgot one... *YOU* suck :-)
>
> No, he actually forgot TWO
>
> (I leave the rest of the required thinking for the reader <G> )
Hey, are you trying to start some shit? The line starts in the rear...
:-)
--