Manual Transmission Simulator?
Chris Smith
New to the group... can you recommend a good simulator that might be a
reasonable place to start learning about how to drive a car with manual
transmission? I know there is no substitute for the real thing, but I
somehow think it would help to have some practice on a simulator...
To make a long story short, I am considering purchasing a sports car, and
was thinking it would be great to have it as a stick shift- only problem is
that I've driven an automatic all my life, and all my closest friends drive
them too (or are not willing to let me wear out/ruin the clutch in their
manual transmission).
Seems like driver schools don't typically teach stick, so I'm in a bad
way...
I have a pretty limited CPU setup (667 MHz PIII); might be worth investing
in an upgrade, if it saves me a grand to get a clutch replaced 5-10K into
ownership of my new car. Maybe I can somehow upgrade my old PSX in the
process (still like to play a game now and then...).
Any help greatly appreciated...
ChrisS
Milhouse
and I've never felt a set of pedals that could really accurately even get
the feel of the brake right, let alone the clutch. And even if you did find
one that did a good job, it still wouldn't help a whole lot; each car is
different when it comes to the clutch. My dad's driven stick for years, and
the first times he got in our Camaro with a new clutch (once when he bought
it new in '94, and once after we put the new clutch in this past spring
break) he still killed it the first time both times. And every car he's
owned has been a stick, with the exception of his current daily driver ('97
Mercedes-Benz E320) - '68 Firebird, '73 Camaro, a 914, a 912, a '74? 911,
and then the '94 Z28...
Probably one of the best things you could do to help you learn to drive
stick is try to get smooth at left-foot braking. If you can do that, it
seems to help quite a bit when working the clutch., as you're training
yourself to work your left foot in small increments.
Milhouse
"Chris Smith" <chris_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:z3jC8.4067$ws6....@news2.nokia.com...
Douglas Cowan
clutch, believe me. Automatic cars barely exist here in Europe (or anywhere
except America, in fact), so pretty much everyone drives manuals. After a
few scary lessons of kangaroo hopping you get the hang of it very
fast...just be smooth and gentle with the clutch, and move it more slowly
near the biting point.
I was told by a friend that if you own a manual car in the US, you don't
need to bother locking it as the thieves can't drive it...thought it was
funny. But believe me, it's not hard!
Driving automatics must be really boring I always thought -- I definitely
recommend getting a real car, as you're doing ;)
I don't reckon that there's many computer simulations that will help -- and
you need a third pedal on the controls too. Knowing when to change gear
isn't a problem (you know all about it if you're in the wrong gear), it's
the control of the clutch which is the tricky bit at first.
Best of luck! If the 17-year old boy racers around here can manage it,
anybody can...
Tim Miser
shift. You will quickly get the hang of it in 1 or 2 days of driving and
there is no way you can wear out your clutch that fast.
We all learned how to drive sticks without simulators and you can do it too
no sweat. It may be a little intimidating but really, there is nothing to
it.
-Tim
"Chris Smith" <chris_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:z3jC8.4067$ws6....@news2.nokia.com...
Dale Green
> way...
Unless you live somewhere really weird you'll find a driver school to help
you. The major one in my town teaches the method of your choice.
A friend of mine thought he could learn standard in one night before picking
up his Subaru Impreza. Didn't work out for him ;) He found a driving
school that did by the hour instruction on whatever you wanted. Took two
sessions and he was good to go.
Try calling the smaller driving schools (like the one-man operations).
D.
J. Todd Wasson
Todd Wasson
---
Performance Simulations
Drag Racing and Top Speed Prediction
Software
http://PerformanceSimulations.Com
My little car sim screenshots:
http://performancesimulations.com/scnshot4.htm
GMpartsguy
> Probably one of the best things you could do to help you learn to drive
> stick is try to get smooth at left-foot braking. If you can do that, it
> seems to help quite a bit when working the clutch., as you're training
> yourself to work your left foot in small increments.
>
> Milhouse
>
> "Chris Smith" <chris_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:z3jC8.4067$ws6....@news2.nokia.com.
That's a good one. never thought of that as an aid, even though ive been
doing it all my life. Another good piece of advice is dont use the clutch as
a 'hill holder", as it is much cheaper to replace brakes than it is to swap
a clutch :)
Strider
"Douglas Cowan" <ne...@REMOVEthisBITdacowan.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3cd9c11d$0$8505$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
> Driving automatics must be really boring I always thought -- I definitely
> recommend getting a real car, as you're doing ;)
That would explain why F1 cars are semi-auto, eh? Who wants to piss around
with changing gears all the time during rush hour? It's just a pain in the
arse.
Wayne Templin
way.
Wayne Templin
"Chris Smith" <chris_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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Doug Milliken
You might find an arcade operator (in the phone book) that still has one of
these around somewhere. If you really get lucky, maybe you could get them
to set it to free-play for a flat hourly rate or something, otherwise it
can get a little pricy at 50 cents per 2 minutes or so (until you get
good enough to play a long time on one coin-up).
During the game development we taught several people from the
administratative group how to drive stick on either Hard Drivin or Race
Drivin (both Atari coin-op games). The pedals are easily good enough, as is
the engine-driveline model.
Milhouse
"GMpartsguy" <kb1...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:pulC8.2461$Po6...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
Not to mention on most cars, a ton easier. ;)
Milhouse
Tim Miser
played didn't have a clutch pedal. If it did, it'd be pretty hard to play
standing up!! Come to think of it, I can't recall any arcade driving
machines that had clutch pedals.
-Tim
"J. Todd Wasson" <jtw6...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020508220856...@mb-fa.aol.com...
ayemdeef...@yahoo.com
<chris_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>New to the group... can you recommend a good simulator that might be a
>reasonable place to start learning about how to drive a car with manual
>transmission? I know there is no substitute for the real thing, but I
>somehow think it would help to have some practice on a simulator...
Even with the Act Labs shifter, clutch pedals and wheel, it doesn't
simulate the 'bite point'. But playing games like the FIA GT MOD for
F12001, or GPL should get you use to shifting/clutching.
>To make a long story short, I am considering purchasing a sports car, and
>was thinking it would be great to have it as a stick shift- only problem is
>that I've driven an automatic all my life, and all my closest friends drive
>them too (or are not willing to let me wear out/ruin the clutch in their
>manual transmission).
Buy the car and have them teach you in your car.
>Seems like driver schools don't typically teach stick, so I'm in a bad
>way...
>
I'm sure there are private driving instructors that can teach stick.
Ask around.
Gunnar Horrigmo
> I don't think you'll find one that will work. The clutch is ALL about feel,
> and I've never felt a set of pedals that could really accurately even get
> the feel of the brake right, let alone the clutch.
true. but I doubt it'd take much more than two hours in a real car to
get the hang of it.
--
Gunnar
#31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo×: 2
"a language is a dialect with an army and a navy"
Chris Smith
learning, and feel a touch less worried about it. Actually, I am really
looking forward to learning... I suppose having a MT will also discourage
some of the request to borrow the car.
Thanks again- happy simulating...
"Chris Smith" <chris_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:z3jC8.4067$ws6....@news2.nokia.com...
Milhouse
pedals...I think the hideously beaten one at our theater has one (the poor
thing has just been THRASHED though; the fact that the display is also
somewhat messed up doesn't help...a shame, such a GREAT game...)
A good portion of San Francisco Rush machines have clutch pedals. The feel
isn't bad for the pedal, but the game modeling is just in or out, no slip /
stalling / etc. You don't even really need it in the game.
Milhouse
"Tim Miser" <timm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MRoC8.2635$1B....@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
Jonny Hodgson
Strider <n...@here.invalid> wrote in message news:udjtgki...@corp.supernews.com...
They don't have torque converters, and the driver can decide/program
when *not* to change gear - those are the important bits.
Jonny
Don Wilshe
dw
bethsoft make a drag racing game
"Chris Smith" <chris_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:z3jC8.4067$ws6....@news2.nokia.com...
J. Todd Wasson
>these around somewhere. If you really get lucky, maybe you could get them
>to set it to free-play for a flat hourly rate or something, otherwise it
>can get a little pricy at 50 cents per 2 minutes or so (until you get
>good enough to play a long time on one coin-up).
>
>During the game development we taught several people from the
>administratative group how to drive stick on either Hard Drivin or Race
>Drivin (both Atari coin-op games). The pedals are easily good enough, as is
>the engine-driveline model.
>
>
Oh yes, any time I see these games around I sit down and play. There's still
nothing like them. I was always number one on any machine I played (now it's
F355 for me, #1 on everything but Motegi 'cause I don't do ovals ;-)). I did
manage to play on one coin for close to two hours on the super stunt track in
Race Drivin', and usually could go for a good half hour or more on the
autocross :-D
I put a LOT of money into those games! lol
REMOVE ]@[this] Ed Solheim
Anybody home?
"Don Wilshe" said:
> Burnout, PCE, NIRA.. all good
>
> bethsoft make a drag racing game
> "Chris Smith" said:
> >
> > To make a long story short, I am considering purchasing a sports car,
and
> > was thinking it would be great to have it as a stick shift- only problem
is
> > that I've driven an automatic all my life, and all my closest friends
drive
> > them too (or are not willing to let me wear out/ruin the clutch in their
> > manual transmission).
--
ed_
Doug Milliken
Too bad your arcade didn't have the original sit-down cabinet version, with
bucket seat. It also had a direct drive motor for the steering (compact
version you tried has a belt drive) along with all three full sized pedals
and a full sized shifter (modeled after an actual Hurst shifter).
Klinn
> Thanks to all who replied; I at least have some options for how to go about
> learning, and feel a touch less worried about it.
...one more slightly late suggestion: do your first few practice sessions in a gravel
parking lot. If you don't get the coordination of clutch & gas right, all you'll do
is spin the tires a bit, not lurch the car. Make your objective to get away cleanly &
smoothly without kicking up any gravel, and you've got it!
I taught myself and several friends this way - works like a charm...
...Klinn
Strider
"Jonny Hodgson" <jp_ho...@eRnEgMiOnVeEer.com> wrote in message
news:oAAC8.3381$f06.1...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
> They don't have torque converters, and the driver can decide/program
> when *not* to change gear - those are the important bits.
>
> Jonny
OK, but the guy was saying real cars are all manual. If I wanted manual I
would buy one. In N.A. all cars come in manual or auto, you have to pay
extra for auto and that is what most people opt for.
On a side note; there is a show on TV from the UK about bad drivers there,
seems to me many of those people just can not coordinate manual shifting
with all the other things they have to think about while driving and that is
why they are having a problem. If they used auto they could probably drive
fine. Manual shifting adds two more tasks to driving (clutch and shifting)
that a person must think about, thought that could be better used thinking
about safe driving techniques rather than pretending they are a race car
driver on busy public roads.
Peter Nilsson
wrote:
Shifting is a "task"? That you have to think about? Bah humbug...
You "think about" shifting gear as much as you "think about" steering.
It becomes second nature after a couple of hours driving.
/petern
/driving an AT right now
Bill Anderson
a 'hill holder", as it is much cheaper to replace brakes than it is to swap
a clutch :)"
Well said! I hate when I'm in a car and people do that! It drives me crazy!
It's funny how people talk about replacing their clutch like it's something
you have to do every once in awhile and it's just a common repair. If you
learn to drive the thing right, you should only have to replace the clutch
maybe every 200,000 miles. Personally, I have never had one go out...ever.
GMpartsguy <kb1...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:pulC8.2461$Po6...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
>
>
Strider
"Peter Nilsson" <pe...@listserv.dicom.NO-SPAM.se> wrote in message
news:j19oductd75cf2jb7...@4ax.com...
> Shifting is a "task"? That you have to think about? Bah humbug...
> You "think about" shifting gear as much as you "think about" steering.
> It becomes second nature after a couple of hours driving.
It's like patting your head while trying to rub your tummy. Some people just
can't do it.
ra300z
wrote:
Very bad analogy.
Nearly every person that drives a 5 speed (ie their own car) don't
even think about. It's very natural.
Nick
"Strider" <n...@here.invalid> wrote in message
> On a side note; there is a show on TV from the UK about bad drivers there,
> seems to me many of those people just can not coordinate manual shifting
> with all the other things they have to think about while driving and that
is
> why they are having a problem. If they used auto they could probably drive
> fine. Manual shifting adds two more tasks to driving (clutch and shifting)
> that a person must think about, thought that could be better used thinking
> about safe driving techniques rather than pretending they are a race car
> driver on busy public roads.
>
is a fact) is that they don't understand or get taught anything about how a
car even fundamentally works. If you understand how a drivetrain works, then
you will also straight away be halfway to being able to drive a manual. I
love changing gears manually, I think it is a part in the enjoyment of
motoring, and I would never go anywhere near an automatic. Driving 'swiftly'
down a hedgelined B-road in the UK shifting through gears 2,3 and 4 almost
once every second, is incredibly fun, and makes my (admittedly rorty) engine
sound fantastic on downshifts.
If you can manual shift without even realising it, as a reflex action
triggered by the engine revs sounding too high or low, you are safer in a
manual than an automatic. You are also doing less damage to the internals of
the car (no machine can replicate the infinite levels of feel of a human
appendage). It's kinda like ABS. Most drivers are a lot safer with ABS, but
some can stop a car sooner without it. One helpful side effect of changing
from an auto 'box to a manual is that your ears already know roughly when to
change up or down, and so once you know the mechanics of manual shifting,
there shouldn't be a problem.
Try checking out some sites on the internet about clutch mechanisms and the
internal workings of a gearbox. That would help so many learners, but
instead they get taught how to pull away on a hill (yes, holding the car on
the clutch as they do so :-)
--
Nick
"The overriding purpose of software is
to be useful, rather than correct."
John Carmack, id Software
abne2...@gmail.com
> Hello,
>
> New to the group... can you recommend a good simulator that might be a
> reasonable place to start learning about how to drive a car with manual
> transmission? I know there is no substitute for the real thing, but I
> somehow think it would help to have some practice on a simulator...
>
> was thinking it would be great to have it as a stick shift- only problem is
> that I've driven an automatic all my life, and all my closest friends drive
> them too (or are not willing to let me wear out/ruin the clutch in their
> manual transmission).
>