GP3 OBVIOUS point For Crammond and Co
Douglas Ellison
Frankly, there's nothing particularly exciting there. GP500 looks a lot
better...being Microprose - we can be hopefull of a similar standard
when in comes to GP3...WE HOPE...
However - the Physics Engine is what you want to see..RIGHT..
Well, GPL didn't sell overly well because it's Too difficult for your
average gamer..
SO - ARCADE MODE AND SIMULATION MODE...
Easy - on Start up, you either get Arcade handling - or a
Simulation....then we'll all be happy. Not a difficult thing to program
in. Then it'll sell like hotcakes (it'll do that anyway) and be a
cracking sim.
DOUG
Greg Cisko
<7usn3e$i0v$1...@flood.xnet.com>...
>> Well, GPL didn't sell overly well because it's Too difficult for your
>> average gamer..
>
>heard of or ever seen" didn't appeal to the average gamer.
Exactly right!!!
:-)
--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.
cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com
>Either case, or all the others are pure speculation.
>
>> SO - ARCADE MODE AND SIMULATION MODE...
>
>But, yes, this along with internet based multiplayer mode should be a NO
>BRAINER.
>
>
>
Sean Higgins
even seen race, except in the movie GRAND PRIX. I have no interest in
driving those cars. That could be ANOTHER reason GPL didn't sell well. I
did buy it but I wouldn't recomend it to anyone that isn't gungho for
driving VERY old F1 cars.
--
Sean Higgins
"HigPup"
Proud Member of Beaver Creek Racing
Redline Racing League www.rrlnrs.com
CNSRL www.cnrsl.com
http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/hsts2/ HSTS, Powered by ATI Rage 128
http://www.atitech.ca ATI Technologies
Douglas Ellison wrote in message <38119EEE...@dtn.ntl.com>...
>Everyone is going Ooohh..Ahh...Look at the graphics.
>
>Frankly, there's nothing particularly exciting there. GP500 looks a lot
>better...being Microprose - we can be hopefull of a similar standard
>when in comes to GP3...WE HOPE...
>
>However - the Physics Engine is what you want to see..RIGHT..
>Well, GPL didn't sell overly well because it's Too difficult for your
>average gamer..
>
>SO - ARCADE MODE AND SIMULATION MODE...
>
Aubrey
to. In all seriousness, with all the helps turned on, a 4 year old can have
lots of fun with it. Geoff Crammond seems to have a knack for reusing code,
so I bet GP3 will be the same.
GP3's graphics look crummy and dated becuase they havent added hardware 3d
yet. I'm sure it will look much better once they do.
-A
Chris "Hollywood" Schletter
> average gamer..
Probably more of "1967 Grand Prix cars that the average gamer has never
heard of or ever seen" didn't appeal to the average gamer.
Either case, or all the others are pure speculation.
> SO - ARCADE MODE AND SIMULATION MODE...
But, yes, this along with internet based multiplayer mode should be a NO
BRAINER.
Chris "Hollywood" Schletter
Or perhaps, by this point, just haven't released any screenshots of it in
operation. :)
Joel Willstein
Sean Higgins <hi...@sprintmail.com> wrote in message
news:7utlcn$hp0$1...@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> I don't like GPL, because I don't want to drive 1967 cars that I have
never
> even seen race, except in the movie GRAND PRIX. I have no interest in
> driving those cars. That could be ANOTHER reason GPL didn't sell well. I
> did buy it but I wouldn't recomend it to anyone that isn't gungho for
> driving VERY old F1 cars.
>
> --
> Sean Higgins
Sean,
Your reason for not wanting to buy GPL does carry some weight. One
would really have to have some knowledge of the history of Formula 1 for
this sim to have some meaning. Afterall, the 67' season was more than 30
years ago. Sierra had the same problem with Red Baron II that actually had a
worse sales record than GPL.
But there were other problems with GPL. There was no way around the
steep learning curve. Very few casual auto sim racers were willing to spend
the countless hours to learn how to drive the F1 cars. And there was no way
stated in the manual to race the F3 cars or slow down the AIs. One would
have had to done quite a bit surfing to find Alison Hines site that had this
very information.
For a auto simulation to be successful,it has to appeal to more than
the dedicated sim racer. After all,we are a very small segment of "pie".
Joel Willstein
jaw...@sprynet.com
Andrew MacPherson
> I don't like GPL, because I don't want to drive 1967 cars that
> I have never even seen race, except in the movie GRAND PRIX.
> I have no interest in driving those cars.
Me neither. I've no interest *whatsoever* in late 60's racing. But I love
simulated racing on the PC... and GPL gives me the best driving experience
I've ever had sat at my desk.
10 FOR cliche=0 TO ad-nauseum
20 PRINT "It's not about the year, it's about the experience."
30 REPEAT
Andrew McP
Chris "Hollywood" Schletter
> steep learning curve.
Having a steep learning curve isn't a bad thing at all. Its about time.
Games have become too easy and all they do is throw more and more monsters,
abnormally fast AI [how many folks didn't have the AI cranked well above
100% at a majority of tracks after say 8 months to a year of playing N2?! or
ICR2?! I did.]
> Very few casual auto sim racers were willing to spend
> the countless hours to learn how to drive the F1 cars.
Why not? It took the men who drove those real F1 cars, and even today's top
of the line racing vehicles, countless hours to prefect their craft. You
are simulating their craft, therefore you should be prepared to dedicate
time to it as they did. Anything else is just an sad excuse.
> And there was no stated in the manual to race the F3 cars or slow down
the AIs. One would
> have had to done quite a bit surfing to find Alison Hines site that had
this
> very information.
Yes, now that was a mistake.
> For a auto simulation to be successful,it has to appeal to more than
> the dedicated sim racer. After all,we are a very small segment of "pie".
Yes, but perhaps its time to change things so that more people HAVE to put
more time and effort into games to become "skilled". Go talk to people and
see the amount of time they spend at console fighting games, or FPS games,
etc to get really really good. I'm sure Thrash would tell you he has
thousands of hours at the helm of Quake, et al.
Bruce Kennewell
Sierra had the same problem with Red Baron II that actually had a
worse sales record than GPL.
Then how do you explain, Joel, that (a) the original Red Baron sold like
hot-cakes, (b) any WW2 flight-sim worth its salt sells like hot cakes?
Surely if this time difference carried any weight across the board then it
would also have a big effect on the sale of flight-sims (the largest sim
group of the lot)?
BK
Joel Willstein <jaw...@sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:7uvac5$dih$1...@nntp3.atl.mindspring.net...
>
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Andrew MacPherson
> (b) any WW2 flight-sim worth its salt sells like hot cakes
Easily explained (IMO) by the fact that the average gamer is over 30+ and
brought up on a diet of WW2 comics and films.
Andrew McP
Steve Ferguson
: (snip)
: Sierra had the same problem with Red Baron II that actually had a
: worse sales record than GPL.
: (unsnip)
: Then how do you explain, Joel, that (a) the original Red Baron sold like
: hot-cakes, (b) any WW2 flight-sim worth its salt sells like hot cakes?
I think Red Baron died (like Flying Corps) because it came out in the
transition time between software and 3D graphics. A patch was drawn up,
but the graphics were still nothing to write home about (and Flying Corps
had awful tearing on some Voodoo cards). RBII got a bad reputation from
its initial slow-as-molasses software version, and then never managed to
drag itself back up.
Stpehen
: Surely if this time difference carried any weight across the board then it
GraDee
GPL didn't sell overly well because it's Too difficult for REALISM!
Steve Ferguson
: Correction...........
: GPL didn't sell overly well because it's Too difficult for REALISM!
Finally I can speak from experience and say... bollocks. Or something
like that. I am a casual sim racing fanatic. I "drive" about 3 or 4
hours a week, never came close to the GP2 hotlaps (hell, never even close
to running with the top level AI), never got a handle on ICR2 road
courses, gave up on getting the push out of short-track NASCAR setups etc.
etc. All in all, a marginal simmer, compared to most here. I can run
mid-pack in GPL in its default state (as installed) and have a hell of a
lot of fun. I can also see the potential to improve and
eventually challenge the likes of Clark, Gurney, Hine and Arnao :) because
I can see exactly where I am losing time and speed, something I never
really saw in GP2.
I've been practicing on weekends only for one month, quickly got out of
the trainers, dumped the helps, and still use a joystick. It is
challenging, yes, but in a good way. I think the detailed physics model
actually makes it *easier* to get the hang of it, because it communicates
so much more to you about how the car is moving around the track.
I run it on my girlfriend's brother's (whew) computer, hence the
weekend-only play. (by the way, this was my effort to keep it from
infecting my life as I write up my PhD, and so far it has worked!). He is
a 19-year old FPS fan, Playstation owner, drivers F1RS with the keyboard
etc. Some would say a true "arcade" fan, and the hardest target to hit
with the over-the-top GPL. He has also very little real-world driving
experience. Well, he's progressing as fast, or faster, than I am,
matching my times, and generally enjoying his time with GPL. Mind you,
he's not a fanatic about it in the way I am, due to the "generational"
difference of 12 years. Names like Stewart and Clark don't mean much to
him. But still, he likes it, managed to get a handle on it, and looks to
be perservering with it.
So, a dissenting opinion.
Stephen
Bruce Kennewell
flight-sim enthusiasts was 30+.
But I certainly wasn't brought up on a diet of WW2 comics nor films.
Andrew MacPherson <andre...@cix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.19991025...@amacpherson.compulink.co.uk...
Joel Willstein
Bruce Kennewell <bru...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:3813...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> (snip)
> Sierra had the same problem with Red Baron II that actually had a
> worse sales record than GPL.
> (unsnip)
>
> Then how do you explain, Joel, that (a) the original Red Baron sold like
>
> Surely if this time difference carried any weight across the board then it
> would also have a big effect on the sale of flight-sims (the largest sim
> group of the lot)?
>
> BK
BK,
What I read is that Red Baron II sales were so poor,that Sierra had it
stripped to practically its demo state,and wholesaled it off to any large
discount chain.
What I read was that the problem with Red BaronII was that no one was
really interested in a flight sim that was simulating events from nearly 90
years ago. The kids of today want the latest and hottest jets. Even WWll
still sells,but todays high tech is #1.
Joel Willstein
jaw...@sprynet.com
Andre Warringa
sell good. But there was a very good reason for this, it didn't have
3dfx support, which was allready a standard even for it's time of
release. Even on the fastest systems the game was ridiculous slow. It
took about a year before the 3dfx patch finally showed up. Then it was
re-released as Red Baron 3d, full price.
The difference with GPL is that most people do know the planes that
flew in WW1. Many people have heard of the Red Baron.
But no so many people do know about racing in the '60s, and I don't
think that many kids ever heard of Clark and Hill (the father of Damon
you mean? He was a driver too?)
Andre
Richard G Clegg
: Bruce Kennewell <bru...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
: news:3813...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
:> (snip)
:> Sierra had the same problem with Red Baron II that actually had a
:> worse sales record than GPL.
:> (unsnip)
:>
:> Then how do you explain, Joel, that (a) the original Red Baron sold like
:> hot-cakes, (b) any WW2 flight-sim worth its salt sells like hot cakes?
: What I read is that Red Baron II sales were so poor,that Sierra had it
: stripped to practically its demo state,and wholesaled it off to any large
: discount chain.
: What I read was that the problem with Red BaronII was that no one was
: really interested in a flight sim that was simulating events from nearly 90
: years ago. The kids of today want the latest and hottest jets. Even WWll
: still sells,but todays high tech is #1.
Surely the Red Baron was WW I. (he said pedantically).
--
Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving
Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html
Andrew MacPherson
> But I certainly wasn't brought up on a diet of WW2 comics nor films.
Well here in the UK, when I was a kid we had a choice of several (3 or 4)
WW2 based comics sat alongside Beano/Dandy/whatever. And no wet, rainy
Sunday afternoon would have been complete without at leave *one* WW2 movie
on the TV.
Maybe you missed out because Aus doesn't have enough wet and rainy Sunday
afternoons :-)
Andrew McP
Bruce Kennewell
Thanks.
BK
Joel Willstein <jaw...@sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:7v1mn4$fgr$1...@nntp3.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> What I read was that the problem with Red BaronII was that no one
was
> really interested in a flight sim that was simulating events from nearly
90
> years ago. The kids of today want the latest and hottest jets. Even WWll
> still sells,but todays high tech is #1.
>
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MichaelJP
<th0...@xnet.com> says...
> Why not? It took the men who drove those real F1 cars, and even today's top
> of the line racing vehicles, countless hours to prefect their craft. You
> are simulating their craft, therefore you should be prepared to dedicate
> time to it as they did. Anything else is just an sad excuse.
>
am nowhere near as good as Jim Clark in real life.
I can beat him at the Nurburgring every time though in GPL, so I wouldn't
say it was too hard.
The problem is most people aren't interested in how a racing car behaves
on the limit of adhesion. They just want a steering test like NFS:-(
- Michael
MichaelJP
> GP3's graphics look crummy and dated becuase they havent added hardware 3d
>
I really, really hope so. The worst thing at ECTS was not the graphics,
though they were bad enough, it was the appallingly choppy framerate.
Hardware support should fix that though.
- Michael
Bruce Kennewell
Canberra for the past fortnight!!
I do certainly remember being an ardent fan of a small "paperback-size" (not
thickness, just length/width) British-produced war comic which always had
British pilots, soldiers and sailors winning through with grim determination
and lots of quoting "Tally-ho, chaps!" and "Jolly good show!"...etc. The
drawings were excellent.
Andrew MacPherson <andre...@cix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.19991025...@amacpherson.compulink.co.uk...
>