OT: Building a replica of a GPL car
Kirk Lane
how cool it would be to build a replica of a GPL car (specifically the
Lotus-Ford 49). The only thing I said would be hard would be using the
engine as a structural part. Did they do anything special to those motors?
And would it be possible to build a car (at least like a GPL car -
rear-engine, open-wheel, open cockpit, etc) that would use, say, a regular
old small-block Chevy as the engine while using it as part of the chassis
like the Lotus did?
--
Kirk Lane
sna...@geocities.com
sna...@yahoo.com
ICQ: 28171652
BRT #187
"Yeah you won't find me
I'm going MIA
Tonight I'm leaving
Going MIA
Getting lost in you again
Is better than being known"
-Foo Fighters, "MIA"
P A M G U A R D]@c2i.net Ed Solheim
> I was talking with one of my friends on the phone, and we got to talking
on
> how cool it would be to build a replica of a GPL car (specifically the
> Lotus-Ford 49). The only thing I said would be hard would be using the
> engine as a structural part. Did they do anything special to those
motors?
Apart from the engine being *designed* to be a stressed part of the
chassis... nope.
> And would it be possible to build a car (at least like a GPL car -
> rear-engine, open-wheel, open cockpit, etc) that would use, say, a regular
> old small-block Chevy as the engine while using it as part of the chassis
> like the Lotus did?
Not really... As far as I know, the small block was never designed to be a
fully stressed engine.
You could however install it "partly stressed", using a triangulare
tube-frame and an adapter-plate between the engine and the bellhousing of
the gearbox.
Have a look at the small block Chevy installed in the back of our SR2
sportscar at www.cheeekracing.com and maybe that will give you some ideas.
--
All the best,
Ed Solheim
Cheek Racing Cars.
David
A while back someone built a SCCA GT1 Camaro that had a full stressed small
block. The suspension was mounted off the motor. It did have a specail
oil pan to add to stiffness of motor. The motor SBC chevy was never
designed to be a stressed member of a chassis so it does have a fair amount
of deflection in it.
Infact the orginal Cosworth DFV had a lot of deflection too. They had a
lot of cam breakage to vibrations set through the motor some due to the 180
crank and some due to chassis loading.
Dave
Ed Solheim <thepaddock[S P A M G U A R D]@c2i.net> wrote in article
<%pNh4.335$uf3....@juliett.dax.net>...
Cossie
why the hell would you want to use a small block chevy?!?
In article <86846e$26g$1...@news.neta.com>,
"Kirk Lane" <sna...@geocities.com> wrote:
>I was talking with one of my friends on the phone, and we got to talking on
>how cool it would be to build a replica of a GPL car (specifically the
>Lotus-Ford 49). The only thing I said would be hard would be using the
>engine as a structural part. Did they do anything special to those motors?
>And would it be possible to build a car (at least like a GPL car -
>rear-engine, open-wheel, open cockpit, etc) that would use, say, a regular
>old small-block Chevy as the engine while using it as part of the chassis
>like the Lotus did?
>
LL
Jonathon Green
Yep, F1 engine are supposed to be SMALL, HIGH TECH, POWERFUL and NOT
RELIABLE.
On the other hand it's an awful lot easier to pick up a small-block
Chevy motor from the local breakers yard than it is to find a cheap Cosworth
DFV...
--
JG
Goy Larsen
Jonathon Green wrote:
>
> On the other hand it's an awful lot easier to pick up a small-block
> Chevy motor from the local breakers yard than it is to find a cheap Cosworth
> DFV...
What, you mean that you don't have a DFV sitting under you glass topped
coffee table, sheesh, I thought every true enthusiast had
one :-)
Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
ymenard
> What, you mean that you don't have a DFV sitting under you glass topped
> coffee table, sheesh, I thought every true enthusiast had
> one :-)
I modified my Vespa so it could include a Cosworth DFV engine. Now you
should see the acceleration baby. It's a real chick magnet for sure, with
the pastel palette on the body. Eh talk about addiction!
8)
--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
Tony Borroz
http://www.racecar.co.uk/rocket/
Kirk Lane wrote in message <86846e$26g$1...@news.neta.com>...
Kirk Lane
idea was just that - an idea. A car that would be LIKE, but not necessarily
BE a Lotus. (Unless Ford started selling them for $3000 apiece like Chevy
has the ZZ4 crate motor...)
--
Kirk Lane
sna...@geocities.com
sna...@yahoo.com
ICQ: 28171652
BRT #187
"Yeah you won't find me
I'm going MIA
Tonight I'm leaving
Going MIA
Getting lost in you again
Is better than being known"
-Foo Fighters, "MIA"
Cossie <jy...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:868s2u$5t$1...@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net...
> hehe just got a comment. If you want to build a replica of the Lotus Ford,
> why the hell would you want to use a small block chevy?!?
>
>
> In article <86846e$26g$1...@news.neta.com>,
> "Kirk Lane" <sna...@geocities.com> wrote:
>
David Karr
"Tony Borroz" <tborr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:wj3i4.2013$OT5.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Why don't you just buy one of these:
>
> http://www.racecar.co.uk/rocket/
>
>
> Kirk Lane wrote in message <86846e$26g$1...@news.neta.com>...
Obiwan
What about building a full-size one in plexiglass,plastic and metal
spraypaint for use with GPL and your PC.........
--
Robert Söderberg
obiwan_b...@INGENSPAMyahoo.com
If replying by mail,remove the word INGENSPAM from the adress.
Kirk Lane <sna...@geocities.com> skrev i inlägg
Tony Borroz
actually), and they said that 2 or 3 (this was a while back) had been
imported into the US.
Ahhhhh ... now THAT'S a daily commuter.
TB
David Karr wrote in message <86ars4$lko$1...@news.vanderbilt.edu>...
>drooldroolmumblemumbledroolslobberdrool
>
>
>
>"Tony Borroz" <tborr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:wj3i4.2013$OT5.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>> Why don't you just buy one of these:
>>
>> http://www.racecar.co.uk/rocket/
>>
>>
>> Kirk Lane wrote in message <86846e$26g$1...@news.neta.com>...
Tony Borroz
http://www.hyperstim.com/home_units/forsale/individ_factory/historic.htm
l
Obiwan wrote in message <01bf646f$40362160$0be264c3@default>...
>Are there any drawings anywhere for '67 race cars?
>What about building a full-size one in plexiglass,plastic and metal
>spraypaint for use with GPL and your PC.........
>
>--
>Robert Söderberg
>obiwan_b...@INGENSPAMyahoo.com
>If replying by mail,remove the word INGENSPAM from the adress.
>
>Kirk Lane <sna...@geocities.com> skrev i inlägg
Barton Brown
loads -- the huge triangular-form perimeter mounting flange at the front
of the engine spread loads over the widest possible area of the
bulkhead, and the rear of the engine and transaxle/spacer case were also
specifically designed for the expected loads. The greater stiffness of a
Small Block Chevy iron block (over the Cosworth's aluminum/magnesium
structures) might make up some of the design difference, but you'd still
have to incorporate some well-designed pick-up points for the rear
suspension links, taking into account lateral and forward acceleration,
as well as braking loads. The good news is that this HAS been done: at
least a few Formula 5000 (Formula A) and second-series Can-Am (just
F5000 cars with envelope bodies) cars used the 5-liter Chevy as a
stressed or semi-stressed member. If you can find some old Road & Track
or Autoweek/Competition Press articles on FA, F5000, or late-70s Can-Am
cars, there should be some useful info. Len Terry and Alan Baker briefly
discuss the subject in their 1973 book "Racing Car Design and
Development", and one item of note is how closely the Cosworth engine
was designed to pre-high-aerofoil operational loads: in 1970, during the
brief reign of higher and greater-surface-area downforce devices (before
the FIA banned them after the multiple disasters in Spain), Cosworth
started experiencing unusual reliability problems, and Mike Hewland
frankly admitted that he had all he could do in stiffening transaxle
cases to keep up with the greater downforce loadings. Both Cosworth's
and Hewland's troubles disappeared after the FIA ban. The point being
that using the engine and transaxle as stressed units is a difficult
proposition at best, and Terry (designer of the AAR Gurney-Weslake
Eagle, among many other wonderful machines) came to the conclusion that
a supplementary spaceframe or boom structure (as used by the Ferrari
312B and Honda RA372) was a good "belt and braces" safety measure, even
when using the engine as a stressed member.
Good luck! It *has* been done... as I'm in the middle of a
"from-the-ground-up" SBC project (front-engined, but using the block as
a semi-stressed member), I have complete sympathy and realize how
fragile enthusiasm can be!
Bart Brown
Brett Cammack
shouldn't beat your brains out trying to implement it as a stressed
member either. Your principle cost concern is really what you are
going to use to transfer power from the flywheel to the ground.
I've seen people mate the SBC to a VW transaxle, but you have to use
skinny tires that will spin before the torque loads go high enough to
grenade the transaxle. Even 1967 F1 dimensioned rubber is to much.
You might look into what the SCCA open wheel racers are using, but
most classes use far less motor than what you're considering.
Frankly, unless you can dredge up an old Corvair transaxle, your best
bet would be the ZF transaxle out of an old De Tomaso Pantera. It's
designed for the torque, has the right orientation for mid-engine
applications (don't have to flip the ring gear), but is fairly rare
and quite expensive. Besides rust and a one-side-fits-nobody
interior, it's the biggest downside to owning a Pantera.
Sounds like fun, though...
Regards,
Brett C. Cammack
That's Racing! Motorsports
Pompano Beach, FL
Matthew Birger Knutsen
>bet would be the ZF transaxle out of an old De Tomaso Pantera. It's
>designed for the torque, has the right orientation for mid-engine
>applications (don't have to flip the ring gear), but is fairly rare
>and quite expensive. Besides rust and a one-side-fits-nobody
>interior, it's the biggest downside to owning a Pantera.
>
>Sounds like fun, though...
>
>Regards,
>Brett C. Cammack
>That's Racing! Motorsports
>Pompano Beach, FL
Definitely sounds like fun!
Depends on how much money you're prepared to invest, but the British built
Hewland Transmissions can be found for a reasonable sum, especially if it's
not going into the back of a car that will be _raced.
Good luck!
matt
Brett Cammack
<che...@online.no> wrote:
>Depends on how much money you're prepared to invest, but the British built
>Hewland Transmissions can be found for a reasonable sum, especially if it's
>not going into the back of a car that will be _raced.
That was the name I was trying to recall! I wonder if one would hold
up to 300+ HP and 200+ ft-lbs. of torque going into modern, sticky
rubber...
P A M G U A R D]@c2i.net Ed Solheim
> up to 300+ HP and 200+ ft-lbs. of torque going into modern, sticky
> rubber...
An old Hewland "FGB" or "DGB" 'box should do.
The FGB's were used in both F1 and F3000 i think...
Oh... just incase you wonder what the names "mean";
DGB = Damn Good Box
FGB = F*****g Good Box
Wouldn't it be nice if every product were labelled this good ? :-)
--
All the best,
Ed Solheim
The Paddock - a legendary site....
** Proud member of the GPLEA **
Matthew Birger Knutsen
Ed Solheim > skrev i meldingen ...
For a small block Chev, I'd stick with a DG. FGB is okay up to 450 HP, but
can be a tad weak over time with that amount of torque. Maybe not for street
use, tho :)
matt
Obiwan
Thanks,...I know about Hyperstim,
but I was talking about one with the real/original body shape and
dimensions....
--
Robert Söderberg
obiwan_b...@INGENSPAMyahoo.com
If replying by mail,remove the word INGENSPAM from the adress.
Tony Borroz <tborr...@earthlink.net> skrev i inlägg
<kf8i4.53$lN4....@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
> How about one of these:
>
> http://www.hyperstim.com/home_units/forsale/individ_factory/historic.htm
> l
> Obiwan wrote in message <01bf646f$40362160$0be264c3@default>...
> >Are there any drawings anywhere for '67 race cars?
> >What about building a full-size one in plexiglass,plastic and metal
> >spraypaint for use with GPL and your PC.........
> >
> >--
> >> ICQ
Joel Willstein
Tony Borroz <tborr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:wj3i4.2013$OT5.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Why don't you just buy one of these:
>
> http://www.racecar.co.uk/rocket/
>
Just took a look at the site. I couldn't believe it !! I can just
imagine what my wife would say and do when I came home and parked that
beauty in the garage. Especially since I told her I was going out to buy a
truck.
Joel Willstein
jaw...@sprynet.com
Michael Barlow
I want one!! where's the closest dealer? and how much do they cost?
hehe, I can only imagine the number of times I'd be pulled over for
driving a go-cart. Then hand the registration over to the cop for proof
that it's a legal car for the road ;-) 0-60 mph in 4.4 seconds and 0 to
100 mph in 10? grab that registration back from the cop and disappear
in to the distance in a flash. woohoo. I want one:)
--
=========================================
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing©
=========================================
http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/
Racing online with the help of......
Race Communications Association
Holodyne Engineering
Mystic Music
(have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)
Rick Boyd
My first thought was how great they would be for a spec series.
Rick
"Michael Barlow" <mik...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3890759D...@rochester.rr.com...
> Joel Willstein wrote:
> >
> > Tony Borroz <tborr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:wj3i4.2013$OT5.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > > Why don't you just buy one of these:
> > >
> > > http://www.racecar.co.uk/rocket/
>
TB
She'd understand ... maybe.
TB
Joel Willstein wrote in message <86ppls$rct$1...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>...
>
>Tony Borroz <tborr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:wj3i4.2013$OT5.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>> Why don't you just buy one of these:
>>
>> http://www.racecar.co.uk/rocket/
>>
>
TB
TB
Rick Boyd wrote in message <86puvf$16pa$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>...
>
>My first thought was how great they would be for a spec series.
>
>Rick
>
>"Michael Barlow" <mik...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:3890759D...@rochester.rr.com...
>> Joel Willstein wrote:
>> >
>> > Tony Borroz <tborr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> > news:wj3i4.2013$OT5.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>> > > Why don't you just buy one of these:
>> > >
>> > > http://www.racecar.co.uk/rocket/
>>
Joel Willstein
Michael Barlow <mik...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3890759D...@rochester.rr.com...
> Joel Willstein wrote:
> I want one!! where's the closest dealer? and how much do they cost?
> hehe, I can only imagine the number of times I'd be pulled over for
> driving a go-cart. Then hand the registration over to the cop for proof
> that it's a legal car for the road ;-) 0-60 mph in 4.4 seconds and 0 to
> 100 mph in 10? grab that registration back from the cop and disappear
> in to the distance in a flash. woohoo. I want one:)
> --
> =========================================
> Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing©
> =========================================
> http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/
See ya in jail Mike :))
Joel Willstein
jaw...@sprynet.com
Mark Jeangerard
one. :-)
How far ahead can these guys possibly think when they've designed and open
cockpit car with a four point restraint, and no structure above the
shoulders? I'd be willing to bet they can't see the end of their noses.
--
Mark Jeangerard
New Mexico USA
Michael Barlow <mik...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3890759D...@rochester.rr.com...
> Joel Willstein wrote:
> >
> > Tony Borroz <tborr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:wj3i4.2013$OT5.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > > Why don't you just buy one of these:
> > >
> > > http://www.racecar.co.uk/rocket/
> > >
> >
> > Just took a look at the site. I couldn't believe it !! I can just
> > imagine what my wife would say and do when I came home and parked that
> > beauty in the garage. Especially since I told her I was going out to buy
a
> > truck.
> >
> > Joel Willstein
> > jaw...@sprynet.com
>
> I want one!! where's the closest dealer? and how much do they cost?
> hehe, I can only imagine the number of times I'd be pulled over for
> driving a go-cart. Then hand the registration over to the cop for proof
> that it's a legal car for the road ;-) 0-60 mph in 4.4 seconds and 0 to
> 100 mph in 10? grab that registration back from the cop and disappear
> in to the distance in a flash. woohoo. I want one:)
> --
> =========================================
> Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing©
> =========================================
> http://members.xoom.com/BarlowRacing/
>
George M. Smiley
>
> I want one!! where's the closest dealer? and how much do they cost?
> hehe, I can only imagine the number of times I'd be pulled over for
> driving a go-cart. Then hand the registration over to the cop for proof
> that it's a legal car for the road ;-) 0-60 mph in 4.4 seconds and 0 to
> 100 mph in 10? grab that registration back from the cop and disappear
> in to the distance in a flash. woohoo. I want one:)
Why not just buy the engine in the chassis it was designed for, i.e.
a Yamaha YZF-R1? Then you can do 0-60 in 3.0 seconds, turn
10 second quarter miles at 140 MPH, and run all the way to
170 MPH. All with the same disrespect other motorists are
likely to heap upon this vehicle (hate to be beside a SUV that
wants to change lanes in that).
- George