1967 GTO and a 428: any built?

[Patrick Gainer]

I know a guy who is selling a 67 GTO which is being advertized as
'totally factory or optional'. This same GTO is advertized as
having a 428 and automatic.

I was under the impression all 1967 GTOs came w/400 4bbls. Am I
mistaken? Was there some factory option? Is this guy out to lunch?

Pat

[Steven J Orlin]

In article <3ab8du$m...@juniper.almaden.ibm.com>,

A few issues back, Summit Racing's catalog featured a beautiful blue GTO
in the '64-67 Era. I can't remember which year in specific.
It had a 428, and the factory 428 emblems are right on the side to see.

*looks at watch* Umm, he's probably back from lunch now :)

If you are in the market for a GTO, I'd snatch it up!!

Steve

[news account]

The 428 GTO in the summit catalog was a bogus car as the article stated.
To my knowledge, there were no 428 GTOs.

[Terry Hartman]

--

The 428 was a factory option and was available for several years.
I'm not sure what year the option was first offered or when it ended.
I'll guess from '66-'70. It is a fairly rare option though.

The crank has the same stroke as the old SD421 but is not made
of the same material. I believe the 428 crank is PMI and that
the 421 was steel....

I would recommend reading Pete Macarthy's book if you're really interested
in the factory high performance pontiac engines.
--
Terry Hartman
txha...@spd.dsccc.com

[Ed Treijs]

In article <1994Nov16...@rdcvs7.d50.lilly.com>,

<kk8...@rdcvs7.d50.lilly.com> wrote:
>> Patrick Gainer <gai...@slowmo.almaden.ibm.com> wrote:
>>>I know a guy who is selling a 67 GTO which is being advertized as
>>>'totally factory or optional'. This same GTO is advertized as
>>>having a 428 and automatic.
>

>wouldn't count it out just for having the wrong engine. You will want to
>verify what engine it actualy has. This is not easy on a Pontiac because the
>engine codes are not consistant from year to year. It may not have a 428.
>There are no external markings on the engine to show displacement. There
>will be a 2 letter code on the front of the block. The correct engine is
>likely a YS or YZ. This would translate to a non-California 400 335hp
>automatic or 400 - 360hp HO automatic respectivley.

Don't have to count it out, but I'd be extra careful. It's NOT totally
factory original (what does "optional" mean??). If it was something
dealer installed, the guy should 'fess up. Either he *knows* that it's
not factory (so he should say something like "rare dealer-installed
big engine, have documentation, yak yak woof woof"), or he doesn't know
either i) the size of engine (maybe it IS a 400) or ii) that 428s weren't
original equipment. If that's the case, how well does he know the car
and what is/isn't "factory original"? He don't. Maybe the rings are
going, and he doesn't know about that either. (Maybe they're "factory
original" and ready to go....)

If it has a 428, then 99% probability that someone swapped one in later.

This reminds me of one guy around Toronto who has a '69 Firebird coupe,
base 350 2bbl model. He's put on a few Trans Am decals, but (it's been
a few years) I don't think it's even white with blue stripes or anything.
It's a Firebird 350 with some decals, period. At car shows, he has a
placard which proudly states "Firebird Trans Am 1969" and goes on to state
all sorts of specifications like "Engine: 265 HP 350 2 bbl". Now that's
correct enough, the 350 2bbl was 265 (gross) HP. However, it clearly
implies the car is a Trans Am (I didn't do a lawyer interpretation to
see if he's EXPLICITLY saying the car's a T/A).

The scary thing is that, although those who knew were chuckling (this is
too stoooopid to get upset over) the unwashed public seemed quite
impressed (unless they're more sarcastic than I imagine).

Getting back to the GTO, the better you get to know your old car, sadly,
the worse it is, and the more you pay to fix this and adjust that. The
casual passer-by, of course, is equally impressed by the car before and
after you lay out the big bucks and effort. Bummer. Point is, the
GTO advertised may be a "before the big bucks" car. You don't want
that.

Ed (now I have no money, but my car....looks the same....) Treijs

[Richard Oleschuk]

>Pat

You are totally correct. In 67 the goat only came from the factory with a
400 cid. The 428 was only offered in the Grand Prix that year from pontiac.

The guy is totally out to lunch.

Rick Oleschuk

Phd. Student
Analytical Chemistry

" Imagine todays technology and yesterdays cubic inches "

[Richard Oleschuk]

>Steve

Every reference I have indicates that from 64-66 only the 389 was offered
then in 67 the 400 was available. The 428 was only availble in the
grand-prix in 1967. I'm look'n at my watch and he is still way out to lunch

Rick Oleschuk
Phd. Student
Analytical Chemistry

" If only we had today's technology with yesterday's cubic inches"

[Joseph Georger]

Perhaps I did not make myself clear. I am interested
specifically in what correction to apply to the equations for torque
converter slippage for an automatic transmission, above its stall speed
of course. Is it linear or not, etc.?

--
**************************************************************************
Joe Georger <jgeo...@math.vt.edu>l
Virginia Tech Dept of Mathematics

[kk8...@rdcvs7.d50.lilly.com]

ALL '67 GTOs came with 400s. There were a few thousand produced with 290hp
400-2V. The rest were 400-4V rated at either 335hp (Standard) or 360hp (HO
or RAM-AIR)

1967 was the first year for the 428 in the big cars. It is possible that a
dealer could have installed a 428 but not very likely. A more popular
"dealer installed" option was the 1966 3 x 2V. Unless you have documentation
on any dealer installed stuff the car would loose points in a show.

As far as buying the car if you are looking for a 100 pt. show car you will
probably want to keep looking. If you are looking for a fun car to drive I

wouldn't count it out just for having the wrong engine. You will want to
verify what engine it actualy has. This is not easy on a Pontiac because the
engine codes are not consistant from year to year. It may not have a 428.
There are no external markings on the engine to show displacement. There
will be a 2 letter code on the front of the block. The correct engine is
likely a YS or YZ. This would translate to a non-California 400 335hp
automatic or 400 - 360hp HO automatic respectivley.

Roy Bond bond_...@lilly.com

[Rod Rickenbach]

In article <3ab8du$m...@juniper.almaden.ibm.com>,
Patrick Gainer <gai...@slowmo.almaden.ibm.com> wrote:

None came from the factory with a 428. In fact, I believe the 428 was
only built in '68 and '69.

-Rod ('66 GTO w/ 428, Tri Power, 4 speed & 456 12 bolt rear for sale :)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rod Rickenbach Delaware Tech Computer Services
r...@dtcc.edu Stanton/Wilmington Campus

[Joel A. Frahm]

In article <CzDCt...@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> prit...@oissvr.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (news account) writes:

>The 428 GTO in the summit catalog was a bogus car as the article stated.
>To my knowledge, there were no 428 GTOs.

There were a few "Royal Bobcat" dealer installed 428 cars, GTO's and
Firebirds, in the late sixties. They were put together by Royal Pontiac.
Supposedly, Pontiac also sent out a few q-ships from the factory for the
press to test, fitted with 428's but badged as 400's. No way such a thing
could be documented, I suppose. That would be a rare thing to own, a
factory sleeper car, fitted with an engine that's not on the option list!
There would be no real way to get the factory build order to show the
'special' option.

-Joel (fr...@colorado.edu)

[Timothy Churchill]

In article <3ad4kd$5...@hopi.dtcc.edu>,

Rod Rickenbach <r...@hopi.dtcc.edu> wrote:
>In article <3ab8du$m...@juniper.almaden.ibm.com>,
>Patrick Gainer <gai...@slowmo.almaden.ibm.com> wrote:
>>

(some stuff deleted)

>>I was under the impression all 1967 GTOs came w/400 4bbls. Am I
>>mistaken? Was there some factory option? Is this guy out to lunch?
>
>None came from the factory with a 428. In fact, I believe the 428 was
>only built in '68 and '69.
>

I have a 1967 Pontiac sales brochure someplace (from my first car,
a hand-me-down '67 Catalina my grandfather had bought new), and
it has a chart showing the engines available & HP ratings...
I dunno if they put 'em in GTOs, but I'm almost positive the 428
was among the engines listed, perhaps they were only in Catalina 2+2s
that year?

Tim

--

"The difference between a good and bad golf swing is the same as that
between beautiful and ugly women - a matter of millimetres" -- James Bond, 007

[Patrick Gainer]

In a recent append, fr...@colorado.edu (Joel A. Frahm) writes...

>>The 428 GTO in the summit catalog was a bogus car as the article stated.
>>To my knowledge, there were no 428 GTOs.
>
>
>There were a few "Royal Bobcat" dealer installed 428 cars, GTO's and
>Firebirds, in the late sixties. They were put together by Royal Pontiac.
>Supposedly, Pontiac also sent out a few q-ships from the factory for the
>press to test, fitted with 428's but badged as 400's. No way such a thing
>could be documented, I suppose. That would be a rare thing to own, a
>factory sleeper car, fitted with an engine that's not on the option list!
>There would be no real way to get the factory build order to show the
>'special' option.
>
>-Joel (fr...@colorado.edu)

According to my source (The Big Little GTO Book), the only 428 installed
Royal Bobcat engines were on 1968 model year GTOs. No 428s were installed
in 1967 model year GTOs.

Pat

[aarestor...@gmail.com]

Everyone saying that a 1967 gto didn't come with a 428 are wrong. I own a royal bobcat originally purchased from my uncle at bud meadows Pontiac in Seattle washington.you had a option to bobcat your gto upon the build sheet just like super dutying your vehicle. Ace Wilson's Pontiac bobcat ed vehicle before delivery. Just like copo yenko ect. Indeed they are real.

[joek.h...@gmail.com]

My father bought a 67 GTO coupe May 1967. The car had a factory 428 engine / automatic.

[roylste...@gmail.com]

I owned a 1967 GTO with the 428 engine option. I had the original sticker window with it that showed the 428 engine option and the dealer installed tri power

[bobbycat...@gmail.com]

I have a 1967 Pontiac GTO that did in fact come from the dealer with a 428 engine and a 4-speed. It was installed, and sold by Royal Pontiac. It has the stage 3 Royal Bobcat performance package on it.

[bobbycat...@gmail.com]

Don't believe everything that you read, Rick. There were a number of 1967 Pontiac GTO's, that did in fact come from the dealer with 428 engines installed in them. Any one who was involved in the street racing scene in the Detroit area back in the 60's, knows about Royal Pontiac, and their Royal Bobcat GTO's. They were the cars to beat, back in the day. Many of those cars had 428 engines in them. It was part of their "stage 3" performance package.

[fas...@aim.com]

67 Goats only came with 400 cid 4bbl and 2bbl

[fas...@aim.com]

GTOs never came with 428

[fas...@aim.com]

428 not a GTO factory option. It was used in big Pontiacs

[hols...@comcast.net]

Yes and no. As far as I know no however, in addition to the “special editions” made for the press and the like noted elsewhere in this topic, there was also on occasion certain “employee” cars that were built at GM Baltimore that said one thing on paper and had something quite different in it’s physical form. I personally knew of at least 2 of these in existence in Maryland over the years. 1 was a 1969 Impala the other was a Chevelle though I do not remember the year. I do not know what has become of them. Both were stripped to the bones on paper though were heavily optioned with all of the goodies tucked away behind plain Jane door pads or made incognito as they were being built. Though the order had to be placed at the dealership, the order number and vin of the vehicle was made available as the vehicle went into production with some creative replacement of build sheets from formerly manufactured vehicles inserted at different areas of assembly. Anything questioned was “fixed” ( hot-punched/ignored) elsewhere in process. As a Baltimore native and a 3rd generation employee in that same building, I got to drink a lot of beer and hear a lot of talk from the people who built those cars, too many eyewitnesses and participants to be a rumor. That being said, this not only potentially applies to the GTO, but to ANY vehicle that was manufactured at that assembly plant. Baltimore built Olds, Chevrolet, Buick, and Pontiac all on the same assembly line and had a truck line in operation in the same building to boot. I’ll let your imaginations run from here.